Ducati Monster Forum

Experts of all things motorcyclical,

Having realised from the course last week that I need adjustable levers, I was looking at getting some. For some reason the shorty style appeals to me and because I have little girly hands they seem to be big enough.

So can anybody advice good or bad experience with shorty levers, anything to consider?

TIA

I have the Pazzo's "long"..... I toooo have girlie hands and found these just right as they are actually smaller than the stock ones.

I tried Rusty's shorties but just not enough meat for me.....

 I could have lived with a "shorty" on the brake but not on the clutch.......

Ooohh and some pics to give you an idea of what they look like....

Just my 2 cents worth.....

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3013/2562520375_40d013a9e9.jpg?v=0)

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3275/2563345156_1e8527e96e.jpg?v=0)

I have had both Long and short Pazzos and prefer the shorty style - I don't know what Big T is taking about - Long ones on the clutch - You only use your clutch going down gears anyway... [cheeky]

No really, I also have the MLP Tuning Clutch slave cylinder so my clutch is not too heavy and when I was at Eastern Creek the other day I was only using one finger on both the clutch and the Brake most of the time so a long lever would just get in the way, ie crush your other fingers.

Finally, I grew up on Dirt Bikes and fanning the clutch and tapping the front brake while still in mid corner or over a jump mean that you need full control of the handlebars more than the need to open your whole hand to grab a lever! ;D

Really, it comes down to personal pref.  [drink]

Good luck  [moto]

I have long CRG levers, to me it seems they are made a little better than Pazzo.
Never really considered the shorty ones, just wanted the adjustable function.

i have long CRG's, top quality gear. the pazzo's i've never seen so i can't comment, but shorter levers might be harder work, especially on the clutch, one advantage would be less chance of them snapping in a spill.


paul.

Another option that is available is the Rizoma levers

http://www.pjsparts.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=226&products_id=507&osCsid=2b5edc9eb8858ceb5978176384541835

I have bought a bunch of stuff from PJ and he offers great service - I have Rizoma Rearsets, bar grips and mirrors and they are all A1 quality!

I am just about to place another order with PJ for some other stuff - great gear

i've seen the rizoma in real life and i'm not convinced that they're "da shit" in a lever world; albeit they do take a crown as being the most expensive

.....each to their own

 

Smarter brains than ours have designed lever to master cylinder to caliper ratio to optimise the system for best performance. [thumbsup]
And of course us, the rider knows a lot more than than these collective intelligencia and go changing things. [roll]

Regarding the lever length and the number of fingers required?? How many fingers wide are the factory designed levers on almost any bike??? (Specials excepted) [thumbsup]
But we know better dont we??? ;D

Ever had a stubby roll out from under the drivers seat and get stuck under the brake pedal??? Get into an emergency braking situation and have your fingers behind the lever and you could be in more shit than a sewerage farm duck. ;)

Learn to use your brakes to the max the way they were designed, and once thats done you can start playing. [moto]

Dragonworld, was there more to what you are trying to say than use more than one or two fingers to brake?

Have to agree about the price of the Rizoma levers. I have a few Rizoma bits and pieces already and they ain't cheap but about $200 PER LEVER is a bit too much for me.

I have an idea that you could try and it will cost you nothing, loosen the clamps on the levers at the bars and roll them down only 10mm or so(you may try a few different positions), I found it difficult to grab the levers in an emergency (practice) the tips of my gloves were just flicking the levers on the way through and I found that the angle is opened up slightly and your fingers can get over the levers a little quicker. You can practice getting a good grab of the levers with atleast three fingers. It also levels out you wrist when riding so they dont ache after riding.
It helped me. Try it and see if it makes a difference for you.
Cheers Steve...

of course us oldens wot grew up with drum brakes learned pretty quick what happens in an emergency stop with the brakes fading away and your fingers jammed between the lever and the bars. Levers are a full hand width for a reason, you got the fingers, use em all.

As with al prices in OZ the prices are a bit much....

As to Rizoma - From PJsparts.com they are US$185 for a pair plus postage and Pazzo can be found for around US$159.00 again plus postage. Not sure on the CRG's on price but I am sure they are around the same price. Therefore price in not the issue, it is about which set you prefer.

As to Dragons take on learning how to brake using the std set of levers - True, you do need to be able to do that But those levers are made to a price and have very little adjustment which is why I went the Pazzo route plus the new slave cylinder - Much more 'feel' and much more comfortable positions available.

I chose shorty style because of my experience and would not recommend them to people who have not been riding for long. I think they are great as they enable you to hang on to the handlebars whilst at the same time have a finger or two ready to change gear or brake. Not really needed day to day on the main roads but great on the track ;D and essential when dirt bike riding.... [moto]

Rusty I think you will find that the Rizomas are $185 per lever from PJs (checked their website). But I am interested to see where you can get Pazzos for $159US, can you point me in the right direction?

I do need to buy two sets of most things, so every little bit counts.

I am also getting the impression that even with my little girly hands I may not be able to get more than a couple of fingers on the shorty levers - would love to be corrected if anyone has first hand experience.

My main point with the fingers thing is that a lot of riders operate their levers (brake) without thinking about what/how they are doing the job. They get into a comfortable everyday way of operating their controls and get found wanting when faced with an unplanned emergency situation. [roll]
On one course I did with an advanced group at Sandown Racetrack there was a guy on a Gixxer 750 and was taking way too long to pull up on the braking training. When it was suggested he use all four fingers on the brake he said he couldnt cos the lever was too short!! :o
He had bought the bike like that and, being a dirt rider didnt think anything of it, 2 fingers = no problems, nup. ???
He wasnt able to get full brakes on the front end at all. He wouldnt have it as he reckons he used to take the hacksaw to his off roaders levers all the time.(Mainly to clear his barkbusters!! Bugger the safety??) ???
 One of the Instructors pulled the lever off his own Suzuki and put it on this guys bike and the fella couldnt believe how hard he could stop.  [thumbsup]
Interesting comment was that he said that the brakes were "too touchy" and the shorter levers made them better. Ummmm 'scuse me??? We had an A grade racer there as a guest Instructor and I loved his reply to that one. "Would you take a hacksaw to the brake pedal on your car if you reckoned they were too touchy?? Course you wouldnt, you'd learn to use the tool properly."
It might appear that I've got a bit of a soapbox happening here but in my experience with training and being privy to a lot of crash stats, both locally and nationally, in almost all cases of a "traffic conflict" the front brake was either underused or not used at all. :o
And from observations from Instructors both at LP/licensing level as well as advanced, that brake lever was one of the most misused by either modification, technique or lack of thought (all of the above??) controls on the vehicle. And one of the hardest to teach.
I have real short fingers myself (No comments regarding finger length and another part of the anatomy thanks ;D)
And can only get one fonger onto the lever initially, but as its drawn in I get the rest on it no problem. I use a couple of fingers when I'm dicking around turning into corners and generally riding around but when I want to stop specifically I use all four. I guess the point I'm making here is that one technique doesnt fit all applications, and your controls should never be operated without intention and thinking. Too many riders have got hurt and will get hurt unfortunately because they will unconciously get into an "automatic " mode of operation which can bring  them unstuck in an emergency. :(

Thanks Dragonworld I figured that was what you were trying to say. My only intention was to use all four fingers as I always have. From the measurements I have made it would seem that I could fit all four fingers on a shorty lever - in reality though this does not seem likely from the comments I have read.

Mates of mine have made similar comments about the foot controls on sportsbikes and how tiny they are compared to the controls on their cruisers.

I have just been through the exercise of Rizoma, CRG and Pazzo and getting them locally or via the internet from the US.

You will find that the Pazzo resellers in the US will mark up the price of the Pazzos to the US equivalent of the local Aus price.  It is part of their reseller agreement to protect the Australian Distributor.  I know that with the US Free Trade agreement that might not seem all that legal but I wasnt prepared to take up the fight.

The Rizomas are not cheap and about twice the price of the CRG and Pazzo alternatives so I disconted them at the outset.

So it was either CRG or Pazzo.

I settled on the Pazzo as they seemed to have the clutch lever system ie the kill switch actuation sorted out better for the S4R system better than CRG and the communication with the company about the Pazzos was great.

So once I settled on the Pazzos I found a company that would send to a local US address of a mate and then he shipped to me!!!  

All good.. and on the bike.

(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k135/bretmorris/P5240095.jpg)

Just my approach


Bret

Four fingers, very impressive... ;D

currently using the long ,but would swap them for shorties anytime  [thumbsup]

You know, you can get cheap adjustables (long only I think) to suit both the large (coffin style master) and small pivot (pill bottle masters) for about $20 each - got mine from Ron @ Flywheels.

Sure, they don't have the bling factor, but for $20 I'm not complaining

Jukie has some cheapy adjustables on at the moment, but they are a bit .... floppy?

Don't let her hear you say floppy about the 620.........
There are also ABM's or have we said that already?

I thought floppy was OK, I really wanted to say loose but thought better of it.

Haven't seen the ABMs - got a source?

Saw an ad in the last Cycle Torque paper.
I'll have to find it and let you know.

Don't stress about it, I will do some net searches.

No problem, I think they are a little more accescable than Pazzo/CRG.
don't know about price.

Good luck, let us know what you find. 

Ouch - 185 per lever sucks..... Yup, stick with the Pazzos. My Pazzo price is based on what I paid about a year ago - I see hey are now 179-189 us - I got them off Performance Moto - http://stores.channeladvisor.com/performance-motorsports/Brake%20and%20Clutch%20Levers/?sck=76703695 make sure you enter the cosr ALL10 so that you get a further 10% off the price listed. They were very quick and have other stuff I was after eg: helmet visors and other usefull stuff.

I see where some people are with the lever length argument - I think Dragonworld would do well to get a set of std Pazzos. Short styles is good for three fingers but if you need to get the pinky on as well go the long lever. But the main reason they would be good is that you can adjust them so that they suit you finger length - No rude jokes here  [drink]

I think the other thing that needs to be understood is that the S4Rs that I ride has really powerful brakes. Not quite at the level of the 1098 but the same as the 999 which is very, very strong. If you have brakes that require more effort then you may need to think about the length as you may need the leverage. When you have weaker brakes you need every extra bit of stopping power you can get hold of.

On my bike I run the shorty style and can get three fingers on both levers but generally use 2 or 1 in city riding but on the track I tend to use three on the front brake (Eastern creek corner 2 and 9) and only use 2 on the clutch going down gears (I don't use the clutch going up as there is no need). On both these corners (which are the only ones you really use the brakes on a Duc) I generally catch many bikes as I can use the brakes to the front tyre's limit. As I said the brakes on the s4Rs are very good.

The long and short of it is, think about the bike you have, the braking power you have available, the type of riding you do and then once you have done all that, chose the levers that are best suited to the job and that you are comfortable with. As mentioned before, the front brake of the bike is one of the most important tools you have to stay safe on the road so chose wisely.

Hope this helps - R_usty

on a modern bike with decent brakes, S2R800 excluded here unfortunately!! you should have no concerns about a lever coming back to the bar under an emergency braking situation, i mean really, our bikes are over braked and on my S4R even with the std set up there was no way i would apply enough brake pressure to crush my fingers between the lever and the bar. i now use 4 pad calipers and cast iron rotors which are very powerful but offer lots of feel also, something the std set up lacked. yes 4 fingers is the correct technique and i agree if you use fewer you are risking crushed fingers, not enough braking or a crash etc.etc. but with proper maintenance it shouldn't be an issue.


paul.

Floppy like a Grandmothers arm?

You know, like when they wave with short sleeves and it's flappin around like a dead fish?

BINGO WINGS!!!!! ;D

Thanks for the link Rusty, their current offer is 8% off. Have ordered two pairs in standard length.

Thank you all for your input.

No probs - I think you will enjoy the adjustment available and std length with give you good leverage! Let us know how you go! [moto]