"So what's an SP? Well, take an outgoing 1198S, add a slipper clutch, aluminum tank, a $1,400 Ohlins TTX shock, a quickshifter and a few other options, but â€" this is the kicker â€" we hear all that's only going to cost $100 over the price of last year's 1198S."
http://hellforleathermagazine.com/2010/10/2011-ducati-1198sp-spied-on-intermot-show-floor/#more-10490 (http://hellforleathermagazine.com/2010/10/2011-ducati-1198sp-spied-on-intermot-show-floor/#more-10490)
(http://hellforleathermagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/2011-Ducati-1198SP-1.jpg)
That's nice and all, but I would almost rather have seen them upgrade the forks to R&T spec instead of upping the rear shock.
sounds like they are getting worried about Beemer. I personally would love that entire setup but I'm a puss and would never use it to it's full potential.
Quote from: DRKWNG on October 04, 2010, 06:53:56 PM
That's nice and all, but I would almost rather have seen them upgrade the forks to R&T spec instead of upping the rear shock.
what? R&T Forks are not all that great IMO. The 25mm kit is very affordable, and better still is the 27mm kit, which gets you a fork better than the R&T in feel. Too much "R" in R&T (road, that would be, not enough track).
The TTX shock feels good, a good front end choice is the 27 kit or the ultraslick 30mm cartridges.
The bigger/lighter tank is an awesome plus, especially since there's no risk of ethanol expansion.
Quote from: muskrat on October 04, 2010, 06:56:34 PM
sounds like they are getting worried about Beemer. I personally would love that entire setup but I'm a puss and would never use it to it's full potential.
If its spec comparisons to the BMW, you would look at the Sachs front end and lower-end 2-piece brembos (same ones that came on ducati superbikes 5 years ago). For my style, the torque of the twin is much more fun than the high claimed horsepower numbers. (83 ft-lbs to 97 ft-lbs)
traction control on both, and no abs on the duc is a plus in the superbike category to me. (i do, however, expect it to be standard on all street-going motorcycles/manufacturers by 2020).
The equipped power shifter is neat, but even better is the standard slipper clutch. That is really a fantastic bonus - especially that it is a true slipper, not some semi-slipper
Not sure how well set up the R&Ts that you've ridden were, but the ones I sampled were tits! Stoopid controllable, and close to too firm for the road.
Quote from: a m on October 04, 2010, 07:35:27 PM
The equipped power shifter is neat, but even better is the standard slipper clutch. That is really a fantastic bonus - especially that it is a true slipper, not some semi-slipper
Like the APTC Slipper that Ducati has fooled everyone (a lot on this forum) that it is the real deal? :D
exactly.
if the aptc was the real deal, 848 owners wouldn't be doing dry slipper conversions, or putting in evr wet slippers
the r&t forks fool most people because its another ohlins product, at an attractive "medium-high" price point. A person can take a non-S model and do more with less money by putting ohlins internals in the showa forks making them "Shohlins". For example: the 27mm kit is the way to go for most everybody: Installed it is under $1,000, (under 800 at our shop) and the valving is superior to the R&T. What you don't get is the ohlins gold outer fork tube (i'll admit, bling matters), and if you have an 848, then you also don't have TiNi fork sliders, just chrome. On the 1098/1198, the fork sliders have been coated, so there's no substantial difference. Better forks for less money.
The big plus with the 27mm kit is that you also get three spring sets, making the adjustments for the forks even wider. Sure, I doubt most people will go through the trouble of changing them once its done, but some will. The R&T forks come with only one set of forks.
R&T forks are a big hit, and very worthwhile for the bike owner whose forks have uncontrolled fluid blow-by (Think 3-way adjustable Showa 41U's on the monster line-up). To get real dampening adjustments, you have to throw those forks away, and get something substantial, like SBK forks. For SBK forks on a Monster, you have to modify your triples. You may need a new front wheel. Speedometer pickup? Axle? This gets costly, and you still have to revalve/re-oil/re-spring to some good internals when its all done. All of a sudden the R&T Forks look *VERY* attractive.
But back to the 1198 / 1198S / 1198SP:
For less than the price of R&T Forks (which are over $2,000), one could have their dealer do an Ohlins 25mm or 27mm valve kit, and install the TTX shock --> Upgrade both and save!
the better front end, still, would be a gas front end. but that runs near 10k! (or with a traxxion internals kit for less than half that)
you can keep your traction control, I will never subscribe to this idea. I likes sliding. ;D
Quote from: muskrat on October 04, 2010, 09:15:07 PM
you can keep your traction control, I will never subscribe to this idea. I likes sliding. ;D
IDK all the pros use traction control.
Quote from: Veloce-Fino on October 04, 2010, 09:57:33 PM
IDK all the pros use traction control.
josh hayes just won the ama superbike championship w/o it.
Quote from: derby on October 04, 2010, 11:09:09 PM
josh hayes just won the ama superbike championship w/o it.
He never (afaik) runs it. It was even raining during that final race. [evil]
Whether the pros use it or not isn't even the point. Muskrat said he liked sliding, so he would have less fun with traction control nannying up his good time.
I can't slide like the pros but I like the idea of feeling my rear tire and giving me feedback. Maybe when I'm 80 I'll learn to like it but for now I'll pass no matter what anyone tells me.
Quote from: muskrat on October 05, 2010, 06:23:18 AM
I can't slide like the pros but I like the idea of feeling my rear tire and giving me feedback. Maybe when I'm 80 I'll learn to like it but for now I'll pass no matter what anyone tells me.
I have built in traction control in my right wrist ;)
Hell, I don't even like slipper clutches >:(
the duc's traction control has 8 levels, 9 settings. 'skrat would prefer setting 9: off. you don't have to use it!
(http://image.motorcyclistonline.com/f/34715604+w750+st0/122_1010_03_o+2011_ducati_1198_sp+tank.jpg)
Quote2011 Ducati Superbikes
Major upgrades for the 1198, price remains unchanged.
October 05, 2010
By Aaron Frank
Photography by Aaron Frank, Ducati
Ducati just released details on its 2011 Superbike lineup, revealing a substantially upgraded 1198 and a new model called the 1198SP. The base model 1198 is now essentially identical to last-year's S-version, complete with traction control and a quick-shifter as standard equipment. The S has been discontinued in favor of the higher-spec SP that benefits from suspension upgrades andâ€"finally!â€"a slipper clutch.
In addition to eight-level adjustable DTC traction control and a new, electronically activated DQS quick shifter, the base 1198 also features the Ducati's DDA data analyzer as standard equipment. DDA is basically a value-added lap timer that allows performance-savvy owners to gather, download and compare speed, rpm, throttle position, gear selection and other pertinent data from lap to lap during any given riding session. Despite these substantial electronic upgrades the MSRP remains unchanged at $16,495â€"making this year's 1198 a great value and a serious sales threat to the similarly equipped BMW S1000RR.
In addition to the Ohlins fork and other upgrades that distinguished last year's 1198S, the 1198SP is further improved this year with the addition of a top-of-the-line Ohlins TTX rear shock and the Ducati Performance slipper clutch, something we've long wished for on this big V-twin. Just like the base model, DTC traction control, the DQS quick shifter and DDA data analyzer are standard equipment here. The aluminum fuel tank is likewise carried over from last year, with new graphics incorporating an unpainted stripe down the center to show it off. The SP sees a slight $100 increase in MSRP, to $21,995.
Ducati's smaller-displacement 848EVO, an early-release 2011 model, receives a third paint option, an eye-catching matte white bodywork offset with blood red wheels and frame.
Quote from: muskrat on October 05, 2010, 06:23:18 AM
I can't slide like the pros but I like the idea of feeling my rear tire and giving me feedback. Maybe when I'm 80 I'll learn to like it but for now I'll pass no matter what anyone tells me.
Quote from: El Matador on October 05, 2010, 07:10:37 AM
I have built in traction control in my right wrist ;)
As someone who just crashed at the track due to the rear end of the bike sliding out on a turn exit...I would like to have traction control.
Probably due to the tires I was running (new Diablo Rosso Corsas)...it happened so fast there was no time to "slide the rear", or let my "right wrist traction control" do its thing. ;) I applied throttle...and I was on the ground. End of story.
A pro most likely wouldn't have crashed...but none of us are pros. :)
Rossi uses it... then again he says it makes racing "boring." He would rather there be no TC and much less electronics.
http://motomatters.com/interview/2010/08/30/valentino_rossi_motogp_is_very_boring_we.html (http://motomatters.com/interview/2010/08/30/valentino_rossi_motogp_is_very_boring_we.html)
I can't possibly imaging racing in MotoGP being boring...
Quote from: a m on October 05, 2010, 07:32:14 AM
the duc's traction control has 8 levels, 9 settings. 'skrat would prefer setting 9: off. you don't have to use it!
yeah but I don't want to pay for it either.
you won't be. its standard on the 1198 and the 1198SP for the same price as the 2010 models. Chalk up the extra 200 bucks for the aluminum tank on the SP, or the quickshifter, or both.
still too rich for me and most importantly that Strada wants me BAD!!!!!!! I'm saving pennies for that one instead.
Quote from: El Matador on October 05, 2010, 07:10:37 AM
I have built in traction control in my right wrist ;)
[laugh] [laugh] [laugh] [laugh] [laugh] [laugh] [laugh] [bang]
How much time have you spent on a race track?
Quote from: kopfjäger on October 05, 2010, 08:00:51 PM
[laugh] [laugh] [laugh] [laugh] [laugh] [laugh] [laugh] [bang]
How much time have you spent on a race track?
Actually quite a few. The 996 was a dedicated trackbike and I flogged it around quite a bit. The plan was to get my CMRA license last season but the money was just not there. You can ask anybody who's ridden with me, I'm not exactly a slouch.
I like being able to back it in. I also rode dirt for a very long time, again, mostly on track.
That previous post was tongue in cheek though, hence the smiley.
Well then, have you raced a bike with traction control to be able to say your "wrist" works better? :D
Quote from: kopfjäger on October 06, 2010, 07:10:52 PM
Well then, have you raced a bike with traction control to be able to say your "wrist" works better? :D
Nope, but I have been on several bikes with slippers. I prefer the non-slipper variety. I'm sure I would be a lot faster with traction control, I'm just not a fan; call me old school. It's not like I'm saying bikes without TC are better than bikes with TC, I'm saying it's not for me.
When every single second counts then yes, go for the TC, I just find it more fun without. Besides, I'm of the school of thought that all the electronic crutches keep you from becoming a better rider. Hell, if you jump right into TC and Slipper clutches you'll never learn the delicate art of proper throttle control because you simply wont have to. If, on the other hand, you're already an exceptionally smooth rider that makes the switch to TC, then you're probably going to gain much more out of it.
How much time have you spent on a track?
I stayed at a holiday inn express.
Quote from: El Matador on October 06, 2010, 07:18:13 PM
Nope, but I have been on several bikes with slippers. I prefer the non-slipper variety. I'm sure I would be a lot faster with traction control, I'm just not a fan; call me old school. It's not like I'm saying bikes without TC are better than bikes with TC, I'm saying it's not for me.
When every single second counts then yes, go for the TC, I just find it more fun without. Besides, I'm of the school of thought that all the electronic crutches keep you from becoming a better rider. Hell, if you jump right into TC and Slipper clutches you'll never learn the delicate art of proper throttle control because you simply wont have to. If, on the other hand, you're already an exceptionally smooth rider that makes the switch to TC, then you're probably going to gain much more out of it.
How much time have you spent on a track?
I watch a lot of it on TV, you would be suprised how much you can learn. [laugh] Oh and I sold hot dogs for a whole season. :D
Quote from: kopfjäger on October 06, 2010, 07:23:43 PM
I watch a lot of it on TV, you would be suprised how much you can learn. [laugh] Oh and I sold hot dogs for a whole season. :D
[laugh] [laugh] [laugh]
You did see the part where I said the comment about my wrist was tongue in cheek right ;)
Quote from: El Matador on October 06, 2010, 07:24:47 PM
[laugh] [laugh] [laugh]
You did see the part where I said the comment about my wrist was tongue in cheek right ;)
Por supuesto
i don't think a slipper clutch takes away from proper throttle control. If anything, it makes focusing on proper throttle control easier, since you don't have to do the opposite of being smooth, by whacking the throttle open to downshift... going down one gear, no slipper = no problem. go down 2-3 gears, no slipper = huge hassle.