Ducati Monster Forum

Would you rather have seen a different model out of Ducati this year? Anything not in the poll that I should add?

sac

I went with 250 because a ducati 250 would sell like make the beast with two backsing crazy here.

I'd LOVE to see an affordable 600cc supersingle

848 SF

I would pickup a 250 in a heartbeat  [thumbsup] [moto]

Quote from: ROBsS4R on October 07, 2010, 11:57:04 AM
I would pickup a 250 in a heartbeat  [thumbsup] [moto]

Me too! As it stands the next bike in my household will likely be this:

http://www.starmotorcycles.com/star/products/modelhome/617/0/home.aspx (http://www.starmotorcycles.com/star/products/modelhome/617/0/home.aspx)

But I would scrap that idea for a 250cc Ducati in a second. Something both the wife and I could ride.

If Ducati wants to introduce itself to a new market why not start with new riders?   ???

sac

1198/848 replica 250cc would be epic.  Albeit slow as all get out, it would have that cool factor like aprilia rs125s do. 

Any single would be epic by Ducati at this point.
but I'm afraid they are pushing the other directions on bikes.

No 796-based SS in the poll? 

Personally, I think there should be a 250 in every lineup, and I wouldn't care if Ducati cranked out more bikes than Honda, but I can scarcely imagine the howls of indignation when Ducati puts out a bike that "dilutes" the brand or image.  See: Diavel thread.

World licensing -- 250 or 400cc would be great.

Question is how to design/build a single cylinder that is cost effective to manufacture?

Thus figure old 620cc model and start substracting from that.  $300 to remove a cylinder.  $100 to remove one front disc/caliper.  And so on.  Simply frame design and save another $150.  As soon as you start to the math, you can see why it is easier to add parts/price to a platform then to design something smaller/cheaper.  And remember that with a cheaper product, the profit margin isn't as good -- so you need to sell a higher volume to make same profit as a more expensive model.

I'd love to see a modern day air cooled Testa-headed single in a small nimble frame with simple cafe tank and seat cowl. Most people seem to forget the marketplace for the early single cylinder Ducati's and who bought them during the 1960's.  (and how many Ducati's they have bought in the following decades!)

For the cost of development though -- there is more profit in building and selling 500 units of a street derived 800cc MotoGP (baby Desmosedichi) because you know the customer base out there will be knocking on their dealerships doors wanting to put money down on them as soon as the rumour that they are available.

250-450cc "sport-classic" styled single. Maybe do a limited-production variant with bodywork and clip-ons.

I think it'd be a hoot.

I also think it'd sell like hip-hop at a KKK rally.

I would like to see a Motard with a thumper, kinda like my KTM. Oh wait, never mind.

Bring back the SS.  [thumbsup]

An affordable, up dated SuperMono and maybe a Hyper version as a companion... maybe in the 600-650cc range.

848 SF.

This allows them to use their existing platforms (refer to Mark's post above). Problem being it may mortally wound the big Monster line. But having ridden the M1100s and the SFs I know what I would prefer.

Anything that 'sells like crazy' would not be good for the company in my mind ... they are simply not setup to cope with volume. It is not about 'brand dilution' ... 'licensing' somebody else's product will simply stretch the management away from where they need to be.

With all this in mind the Diavel is worth a shot. If it works, fine. If it doesn't, it shouldn't ruin the company. But would I buy one ... ahh, no.

Quote from: Betty on October 07, 2010, 06:27:26 PM
With all this in mind the Diavel is worth a shot. If it works, fine. If it doesn't, it shouldn't ruin the company. But would I buy one ... ahh, no.

They've done the cruiser thing before (though a more traditional approach, less V-Max-ey.)

As I recall, the Indiana came and went, nobody was sorry, and Ducati is still here.

*shrugs*

Definitely a 600 sized four valve single set up like an SS and maybe a cafe.  I dream about a superlight backroad blaster.  

Since they dropped the GT 1000, Ducati no longer makes anything I want to buy.  I would like to see a good air cooled sport touring machine like an updated ST2.

Quote from: WarrenJ on October 07, 2010, 07:06:10 PM
Since they dropped the GT 1000, Ducati no longer makes anything I want to buy.  I would like to see a good air cooled sport touring machine like an updated ST2.

I still dont think the GT 1000 should have been dropped.. great bike.

Quote from: Veloce-Fino on October 07, 2010, 07:09:24 PM
I still dont think the GT 1000 should have been dropped.. great bike.

Everyone says this but they barely sold

I'd like to see them make a S4Rs w, a true 150 RWHP , done w, gold wheels , gold trellis frame, titainium color and staggered high mount CF Termis.

Dolph     :)    

Quote from: WarrenJ on October 07, 2010, 07:06:10 PM
Since they dropped the GT 1000, Ducati no longer makes anything I want to buy.  I would like to see a good air cooled sport touring machine like an updated ST2.

OMG don't let a m hear you say that! [laugh]

I'd like a 2v aircooled Quad without all the fancy whoo harr for around the farm.

but seriously bring back the ST2

Quote from: DoubleEagle on October 07, 2010, 07:22:38 PM
I'd like to see them make a S4Rs w, a true 150 RWHP , done w, gold wheels , gold trellis frame, titainium color and staggered high mount CF Termis.

Dolph     :)    

+1 but with a RED frame option.

Lastly I think that they should do an ST4 update at a reasonable price to fight the Concours and FJR.  I would consider one of those.

Potential thread jack but have you tried a Rokon 2 wheel drive motorcycle for around the farm?  They are awesome!

something like a retro 250 single like the suzuki TU-250.

do that with a ducati like an old time bevel gear looking thing and it will sell like nobodys business

Quote from: sbrguy on October 07, 2010, 07:41:08 PM
something like a retro 250 single like the suzuki TU-250.

do that with a ducati like an old time bevel gear looking thing and it will sell like nobodys business

See my post somewhere above for my thoughts on a badass 250.

But I really don't think it'd sell. No more sport classic lineup, right?

I think it'd be really cool, and I think almost nobody would give much of a shit.

A new ST variant.  Something between a Monster and a Strada...a Monster 1100 chassis/engine with full fairing.

I thought about posting this earlier, but didn't, but orangelion's comment about the Monster chassis with a fairing prompts me...

In the interest of shared architecture of lowered costs:

One chassis for:

* Monsters
* SS
* ST

The bodywork, or lack thereof, could be modified for each bike. Maybe an 1100 air-cooled ST2, and either an 848 or 1098/1198 powered ST4 (probably 1098, as traditionally you throw the older, B-team motor at everything but the top of the line bike).

I'm not really sure how well an SS or ST would sell, however. That's probably why they're no longer in the lineup. [roll]

Don't know how big the market is for a faired sportbike with a motor that isn't HP-number competitive with equal-or-lower priced water cooled bikes.

I thought of a problem with having a faired 250 to compete with Ninja. One of the great things about the Ninja is that there is a abundance of cheap and easily obtained replacement parts. Make tracking/racing them feasible for those who don't have a 1000cc budget. Hmmmm, cheap and readily accessible parts. Yeah, Ducati sucks at that.

sac

In the interest of shared architecture of lowered costs:

One chassis for:

* Monsters
* SS
* ST

The bodywork, or lack thereof, could be modified for each bike. Maybe an 1100 air-cooled ST2, and either an 848 or 1098/1198 powered ST4 (probably 1098, as traditionally you throw the older, B-team motor at everything but the top of the line bike).

This is probably the best, most practical answer but as we all know, that doesn't necessarily result in sales.  I'd consider a 1100 ST!

My dream bike, the 848 evo engine in a red framed streetfighter... [bow_down]

[coffee]

A new Supersport with the 1100cc EVO motor. A variant of the 1198 frame, but with DSS (if it's lighter than SSS).

Emphasis on lightweight. 385# wet or less.

Fully adjustable suspension (non-Ohlins). Maybe with an Ohlins option that can be ordered if desired.

Simple...no ABS/traction control/etc. Nothing added that isn't absolutely necessary.

Adjustable clip-ons and rear sets. Nothing crazy fancy or billet...just somewhat adjustable. See the KTM RC8.

Analog tach.

Single under the tail exhaust.

Basically, a production version of the NCR Milona or Pierobon F042...but priced around $13K max.

I'd buy this now if they made it.

F042  [drool]
(http://www.f042.com/img/gallery/F042/13.jpg)

(http://www.f042.com/img/gallery/F042hstreet/6.jpg)

:o


Oh my friggin' god! That thing is beautiful!!

WANT!


sac

Quote from: Triple J on October 08, 2010, 11:25:15 AM
Basically, a production version of the NCR Milona or Pierobon F042...but priced around $13K max.

I'd buy this now if they made it.

A hot bike, fer sher.

That said... how many does NCR sell, you think? Could the factory justify their production?

Quote from: zarn02 on October 08, 2010, 11:57:47 AM
A hot bike, fer sher.

That said... how many does NCR sell, you think? Could the factory justify their production?

Well, NCR sells them for $30K, so probably not many!  [laugh] The Pierobon F042 is $15-$20K I believe. Better, but still pricey.

If Ducati could keep the price down to $13K or less, it's hard to say if they'd sell a bunch. I think they would, but probably at the expense of 848 sales...maybe even some 1198 sales.  :-\

I don't think they'll ever build it...I just want them to.  ;D

Quote from: Triple J on October 08, 2010, 01:37:32 PM
I don't think they'll ever build it...I just want them to.  ;D

[laugh]

This needs to fork into two threads:

Things you'd really like to see Ducati build.
and
Things you think it'd make financial sense for Ducati to build.

 ;D

I do think it is just as, if not more, economically viable than any of the poll options.

Quote from: Triple J on October 08, 2010, 02:02:59 PM
;D

I do think it is just as, if not more, economically viable than any of the poll options.

Fair enough.

Rumors have it that new noise emmision regulations will make air cooled bikes very hard to produce after 2012, any one else hear of this?  With the sport clasic gone only the hypermotard and monster remain air cooled.  If that is the case than an 848 steetfighter or a 1200 hypermotard make sence, both sound like fun bikes.  I would love to see a 600cc single in a light weight full fairing bike, like the super mono.  Though it would have to make 90 + hp and be priced well under an 848 work.

Quote from: Triple J on October 08, 2010, 11:25:15 AM
A new Supersport with the 1100cc EVO motor.

Yeah, man, that's what a lot of european duc riders are waitin' for 10 years.

Allthough the millona one shot and the Pierobon F042 are great bikes, it should be a real Ducati, may be something like that:

(http://foto.scigacz.pl/cache/imgs/_w750/gallery/aktualnosci/Concepty_Oberdana_Bezzi/Oberdan_Bezzi_Ducati_SS.jpg)

Quote from: Richie#20 on October 08, 2010, 03:15:27 PM

Allthough the millona one shot and the Pierobon F042 are great bikes, it should be a real Ducati, may be something like that:

That'd work as long as it was light.

There is a 1098 with no engine sitting in the back of my local dealer. Everytime I see it I imagine it naked with a cool headlight and a hopped up 2V engine.  That would be my streetfighter. I'm not sure if I want Ducati to build it though. I want to do it.

Yep. small displacement single...retro styled. Would sell well in the Ducati crowd (maybe) but would be a stone in the MC world in general. Might be a winner in Europe but probably wouldn't make it to the US.

If Ducati were Honda...they might take the chance but Ducati just can't put that much engineering and new tooling into a bike that wouldn't appeal to the majority of the US market.

Hmmm, might be able to push it as "green" but then I wouldn't buy one ! Green sux.

i said boobies just joking but woud like to see a 250 starter ducati even though i dont think it'll ever happen

I went w/ the 250. Fun, light, inexpensive I had the ninja 250 for a while just had fun riding that thing [drink]

(http://www.ultimatemotorcycling.com/files/Ducati_Scrambler_250.jpg)

maybe not with a drum brake on front though...

I like small displacement bikes, but have you guys actually ridden any air-cooled small singles like Ducati used to make?  The only small bike I have experience with is my brother's 250 Suzuki enduro.  I think it has something like 18 hp. It is a fun bike to ride around in the yard and around town, but has no real acceleration which is needed for pulling out into traffic. It can be taken on the highway, but it doesn't really belong there and it definitely is not fun over 55mph.  If Ducati was to make a 250 it would have to water-cooled to make the most power from the limited cc's. Even then it is going to be limited.

Anyways, I just don't see people paying Ducati prices for a small single. If Ducati was to sell a single it would need to be big single similar to the KTM 690

Quote from: Travman on October 09, 2010, 06:15:11 AM
I like small displacement bikes, but have you guys actually ridden any air-cooled small singles like Ducati used to make?  The only small bike I have experience with is my brother's 250 Suzuki enduro.  I think it has something like 18 hp. It is a fun bike to ride around in the yard and around town, but has no real acceleration which is needed for pulling out into traffic. It can be taken on the highway, but it doesn't really belong there and it definitely is not fun over 55mph.  If Ducati was to make a 250 it would have to water-cooled to make the most power from the limited cc's. Even then it is going to be limited.

Anyways, I just don't see people paying Ducati prices for a small single. If Ducati was to sell a single it would need to be big single similar to the KTM 690

ninja 250 is like 33hp...which aside from the hyosung 250 is the only starter sport 250

so really kawasaki is the only sport 250 in the states

I've always thought that if someone came out with a sweet looking 250 at roughly the same price as a ninja they'd sell like crazy. No only are you introducing people to riding but to your brand etc. etc.

The go to answer for new riders is the ninja 250 but imagine if that sentence ended with, but if you spend a little more Ducati has a sweet looking new 250

they would sell if you could make up for time lost with production numbers

when the new ninja 250's came out the dealership down the street from us had a crazy waiting list for them

I need to try a Ninja 250 for the experience. How much does it cost?  

Could Ducati make money with a similar bike, maybe add a couple of cc's and better suspension/brakes so they could charge a small premium?  It would still have to sell for under 5 or 6K.  Would it cheapen the brand?  Who cares as long as it is a fun bike that has some style.

Quote from: Travman on October 09, 2010, 06:54:19 AM
I need to try a Ninja 250 for the experience. How much does it cost?  Could Ducati make money with it?  Would it cheapen the brand?  Who cares as long as it is a fun bike that has some style.

$3,200 ish

it's quantity with them

Definitely not

Style is the key, make it look fast

Air-cooled Streetfighter [thumbsup]

Quote from: Porsche Monkey on October 07, 2010, 06:48:58 PM
Definitely a 600 sized four valve single set up like an SS and maybe a cafe.  I dream about a superlight backroad blaster.  

yup...  but needs to be outrageously light.

We know it's a tiny little niche market for the bike.

Do it, Ducati.

and sell a track version for the same price.

oh...and half fairing with trellis frame, btw.

How about this, let's say Ducati builds some of the bikes being described, with all the good stuff, nice and light..  what would you pay?

$           -  250 l/c 2 valve twin (Ninja competitor)
$           -  400/500cc l/c 4 valve single (full faired, supermono-ish)
$           -  600cc V4 competitive with all I4 form Japan
$           -  848 Fighter
$           -  1100 Supersport (modern day version of the last go round)
$           -  ST2/3/4 incarnation but to be competitive it better have all the bells & whistles of the FJR/K1200
$           -  V??  most competitive SBK available

I love my Duke II

But I'd love it more if it was a sportbike and not a SM.

They need to make a new supermono (which is not one of the poll options)

Quote from: Dave R on October 09, 2010, 08:19:30 PM
How about this, let's say Ducati builds some of the bikes being described, with all the good stuff, nice and light..  what would you pay?

$           -  250 l/c 2 valve twin (Ninja competitor)
$           -  400/500cc l/c 4 valve single (full faired, supermono-ish)
$           -  600cc V4 competitive with all I4 form Japan
$           -  848 Fighter
$           -  1100 Supersport (modern day version of the last go round)
$           -  ST2/3/4 incarnation but to be competitive it better have all the bells & whistles of the FJR/K1200
$           -  V??  most competitive SBK available

This should be good.  [popcorn]

$5,000-  250 l/c 2 valve twin (Ninja competitor)
$6,000  -  400/500cc l/c 4 valve single (full faired, supermono-ish)
$11,000-  600cc V4 competitive with all I4 form Japan
$11,995-  848 Fighter
$12,500-  1100 Supersport (modern day version of the last go round)
$14,995-  ST2/3/4 incarnation
$17,495-  V??  most competitive SBK available

Assuming this is a what should they have overall, rather than a what to introduce.

$5,999  -  250 l/c 2 valve twin (Ninja competitor)
$7,999  -  400/500cc l/c 4 valve single (full faired, supermono-ish)
$9,499  -  796/800cc variant Monster. Light, city friendly 2 valve.
$11,999-  600cc V4 competitive with all I4 from Japan -- gear driven cams
$12,995-  848 Fighter
$13,999-  1100 Supersport (modern day version of the last go round)
$15,995-  ST2/3/4 incarnation
$15,995 - 1098 fighter
$18,495-  V??  most competitive SBK available -- gear driven cams

Current Multistrada as is.

a Limited run classic model.  Price depending on features.  Limited similarly to the Paul Smart, and the Hailwood 900E.

The 848 fighter, only while 848 engines remain. 1098 fighter while those remain, as both engines should be on their way out.


This would do away with the mini-monster, which has been the best selling item, so I'ld keep running a 796 (or 800ish cc 2 valve).
ST Hopefully reusing other engines. You can premium price the sbk v4, or you can go aircooled. The problem starts to come when you start taking away your own business with too many offerings.

However, here you end up with many engines. Too many to easily support?
-250, 500, 800, 1100, 1000, 600, 848
---------------------------------------------------
-250 parallel twin (or L/V twin etc).
-500 single
-600 + 1000 V4
-800 + 1100 Ltwin
-848 + 10(1)98 Ltwin

That's alot of different spare parts to maintain. Also, can Ducati produce, AND DELIVER, enough 250s or 500s to make them economical?  Also, can they make the fairings/controls/etc cheap enough to get beginners in, who are fearful of dropping a bike due to the parts cost?

That's 3 brand new engine architectures, which I think would be rough to implement.


One other item.  Maybe Ducati should develop a "Supersport kit" make it a purchaseable accessory to the Monsters. The frame is already fine for SS duties.  Put out some bolt-on frame mounts to hold bodywork, a front subframe that moves the headlight forward -- mounted bolt-on to steering head (to act as the headlight in the fairing), and some clip ons.  This could be a viable product at a $1000 price point, especially since the 1100S is gone, it might bring in more buyers, especially for the big monster.

$0           -  250 l/c 2 valve twin (Ninja competitor)
$0           -  400/500cc l/c 4 valve single (full faired, supermono-ish)
$0           -  600cc V4 competitive with all I4 form Japan
$0           -  848 Fighter
$13,000    -  1100 Supersport (modern day version of the last go round)
$0           -  ST2/3/4 incarnation but to be competitive it better have all the bells & whistles of the FJR/K1200
$0           -  V??  most competitive SBK available

-----
The caveat being the SS would have to be light and simple. Something similar the NCR Milona or Pierobon F042...obviously not just like though, otherwise 13K isn't feasible.

I'd also love to see a couple V4 SBKs...but I doubt I'd buy one.

1100 SS, oh...and keep Terblanche away from it, K?

If they had any hair on their balls they would make something like this. It wouldn't compare, but they could try.


KTM Concept 125 Stunt (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHRkVWMdRZA#normal)

They lost me when they killed the Trellis Framed Monsters and offer no other relatively comfortable decent looking mile muncher.

Like the HyperM

I'm still wanting a 1200cc DS Trellis framed Monster.... I'd settle for a 1100 though.

I shelled out 10K for my 06 S2R1K and I'd come back to the fold at 12K for the a S2R1.2K.... with a decent rear shock instead of that sachs crap

Quote from: motolocopat on October 24, 2010, 03:32:30 PM
They lost me when they killed the Trellis Framed Monsters

+1

:-\

V4 sbk. How much would I pay? Whatever it takes  [evil]

Quote from: Richie#20 on October 08, 2010, 03:15:27 PM
Yeah, man, that's what a lot of european duc riders are waitin' for 10 years.

Allthough the millona one shot and the Pierobon F042 are great bikes, it should be a real Ducati, may be something like that:

(http://foto.scigacz.pl/cache/imgs/_w750/gallery/aktualnosci/Concepty_Oberdana_Bezzi/Oberdan_Bezzi_Ducati_SS.jpg)

That picture was what immediately popped into my mind when I saw the title of this thread.

If they made that bike I would definitely sell my Hyper and buy one.

Quote from: motolocopat on October 24, 2010, 03:32:30 PM
They lost me when they killed the Trellis Framed Monsters and offer no other relatively comfortable decent looking mile muncher.

Like the HyperM

I'm still wanting a 1200cc DS Trellis framed Monster.... I'd settle for a 1100 though.

I shelled out 10K for my 06 S2R1K and I'd come back to the fold at 12K for the a S2R1.2K.... with a decent rear shock instead of that sachs crap

I agree. Setting the clock on the dash has more effect on handling than any adjustment to the POS Sachs rear shock! Best thing I ever did to my S2R1K was have a S4R Ohlins shock installed and have the Showa forks re-valved with Ohlins guts. Next was an Ohlins side mount steering damper and decent Michelin tires. All good now! [thumbsup] [moto]

Oh, back to the thread topic: I'm still wanting a modern SuperMono in the 600-650cc range. Make it a thumper please in SBK clothing! [thumbsup] Come on, you can do it. We all know it would sell! [clap]

Quote from: oldfastwin on October 24, 2010, 07:19:14 PM
Oh, back to the thread topic: I'm still wanting a modern SuperMono in the 600-650cc range. Make it a thumper please in SBK clothing! [thumbsup] Come on, you can do it. We all know it would sell! [clap]

400-500cc, 4-valve, water cooled.

that will bump about 65-75 hp. 

hell, just use a rotax mill for it. dress it up like the current sbk, low-weight everything keep it about 325 wet. 

i'm in.

Quote from: Duck-Stew on October 10, 2010, 09:18:29 PM
1100 SS, oh...and keep Terblanche away from it, K?

Hmmmm...  Just found a DS1000 motor for sale, and a track-bike '95 SS900 for cheap too... 

Screw what's new w/Ducati, I'll build the Duc I want!   [evil] [evil] [evil]

They should build a scrambler based on the Monster/ST frame or old Multi frame. They can use JVB Moto and Duck Stew for inspiration.
(http://jvb-moto.com/rocknroll/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/scrambler-studio8-top352.jpg)
(http://jvb-moto.com/rocknroll/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/multi2-web700.jpg)
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2374/4512008476_b1bb13a76a_b.jpg)

Quote from: Richie#20 on October 08, 2010, 03:15:27 PM
Yeah, man, that's what a lot of european duc riders are waitin' for 10 years.

Allthough the millona one shot and the Pierobon F042 are great bikes, it should be a real Ducati, may be something like that:

(http://foto.scigacz.pl/cache/imgs/_w750/gallery/aktualnosci/Concepty_Oberdana_Bezzi/Oberdan_Bezzi_Ducati_SS.jpg)

it's funny you say a real ducati, because that bodywork looks like it's stolen direct from a cbr

Quote from: mattc7 on October 25, 2010, 05:48:14 PM
it's funny you say a real ducati, because that bodywork looks like it's stolen direct from a cbr

But the motor and frame... not so much.

Quote from: Rameses on October 26, 2010, 08:20:03 AM

But the motor and frame... not so much.

My point was, that the aesthetics of the bike are markedly not italian.  They're straight out of the Honda factory, from the single high exhaust undertail, to the bodywork.

Yes, the motor and frame are not honda, but the facade of that mockup is purely CBR

If you can afford it, you can have your single.
(http://oi52.tinypic.com/2ezi8mx.jpg)
http://big-diesel.blogspot.com/2009/05/supermono-very-rare-ducati-thumper.html (http://big-diesel.blogspot.com/2009/05/supermono-very-rare-ducati-thumper.html)
http://www.motorcycledaily.com/2009/04/06april09_supermono/ (http://www.motorcycledaily.com/2009/04/06april09_supermono/)

(http://oi54.tinypic.com/zjxgyq.jpg)

Quote from: Witty Name Here on October 26, 2010, 05:10:55 PM
(http://oi54.tinypic.com/zjxgyq.jpg)

that exahust is horrid  [puke]  Otherwise I like.  [thumbsup]

Quote from: muskrat on October 26, 2010, 09:12:06 PM
that exahust is horrid  [puke]

Looks like a copypasta from the 696.

Quote from: muskrat on October 26, 2010, 09:12:06 PM
that exahust is horrid  [puke]  Otherwise I like.  [thumbsup]

yeah, i'm not a fan of the French Horn exhaust either..