Ducati Monster Forum

Hi All,

I wanted to inform the Monster community of a serious safety issue that occurred on my 2009 Ducati Monster 696.  

My Monster has approximately 3100 thoroughly enjoyed miles. (The bike is a few months out of warranty.)  However, last week I encountered a serious mechanical malfunction and was lucky to walk away unharmed.  The original front drive sprocket slipped on the transmission rod towards the center of the bike forcing the chain to act as saw.  This ate into a significant portion of the rear swing arm.  The local dealer estimates ~$3000 in repairs including labor. (Replacement drive rod, chain, swing arm, and possibly the sprocket.)

Apparently, the same mechanism to hold the front sprocket on has been used on many Monsters.  I argue that this type of mechanical malfunction should never happen. One time should be a warning that a better engineered mechanism that prevents the meandering of the front sprocket should be in place. Since it happened to me and I was fortunate enough not to end up in a crash, i feel that I have to inform anyone who loves riding their Monster.  

Has anyone else encountered this issue?

Thanks,

Mike

PS I'd post photos if I can figure how to post them.

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4086/5076127688_db7f09c5a7_z.jpg)


(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4033/5075529497_eee2f97204_b.jpg)

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4038/5075529333_51f2002ce2_b.jpg)

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4068/5075904130_3eb5dd5c86_b.jpg)






 

hmmmmmmmm

Photo posting FAQ: http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=109.0 (http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=109.0)

Something fishy here.  The chain is not a saw - it would take many miles of wear to create a sawing affect IMO.

I also do not see how it could get closer to the center of the bike - can you explain better?  What is the mechanism that failed?

mitt

please do, because what think you're saying doesn't exactly make sense to me.

are you saying the splines failed on the drive shaft? or did the bolt holding the front sprocket come loose and allow the sprocket to work itself off the shaft?

I agree that something sounds odd here.  Not that it should matter that much but was a 14 tooth countersprocket installed?

Dont know about 696, but on my S2R 800, the engine sprocket is held in place by an oblong plate the locks into the splines and attaches to the sprocket with two small bolts (8mm?).  If those screws come loose, the sprocket can slip in/out on the splines.  I am assuming that this being a new bike, you havent had to touch the sprocket, so perhaps the screws were improperly tightened at the factory.  I just replaced my sprockets for the second time (22K miles) and used blue Loctite and torqued the screws to the manual specified value.

Hi Guys,

The sprocket was the original 15 tooth and was never touched.

The Sprocket slid on the splines toward the center of the bike and the chain sawed just like a chain saw into the rear swing arm. However the mechanic said the bolts on the plate were tight.

I'm going to set up a photo account to post the pics i have on this computer.

Mike

I will post more photos later of the drive shaft splines and sprocket and all the surrounding metal shards as a result of the cutting into the swing arm.

I can only imagine what could have happened if the chain broke or cut even more into the swing arm or the sprocket slid away from the bike.

If the two bolts were tight, then the locking splines are gone.  If the splines are good and the bolts are tight, then the plate holes for the bolts are loose enough to allow the splines to clock and unlock.  The locking splines on the plate will wear, but it shouldn't happen at your miles, Mike.

When you get it fixed, ask them to safetywire the two little bolts.  I actually prefer the plate/spline/bolts sprocket holding mechanism over a tight bolt on the splined shaft.

this is about as robust a system as you can have.  There is some special cause to your problem (sprocket installation backward or wrong part)

(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_GmPktBf8jlk/TLSl3_EsA-I/AAAAAAAAAUc/XhLnrBR-ehk/ScreenHunter_07%20Oct.%2012%2012.48.jpg)

Hi Mitt,

Thanks for the diagram.

Apparently i have proof that it isn't robust. I believe that robustness is when something is not quite right, say a bolt not torqued perfectly the whole system should still stay intact. I now have 3k in damage and no real explanation as to why it happened.

Does anyone think Ducati will repair this for me on their dime?

Mike

     

too bad you didnt take photos before the mechanic touched it.

also, can you take photos of each part

if the bolts were tight and the splines on the ring are intact and the gear was on the correct way...
have you ever had your tires changed? same mechanic?

Raux,

All photos are from before mechanic touched it.

It was in the shop the week before for an oxygen sensor replacement.

you better jump on this little present i found for you...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2009-09-Ducati-monster-M696-swingarm-swing-arm-98621-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem4cec5d324aQQitemZ330383045194QQptZMotorcyclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2009-09-Ducati-monster-M696-swingarm-swing-arm-98621-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem4cec5d324aQQitemZ330383045194QQptZMotorcyclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories)

Looks like the wrong sprocket maybe.  Does the one on your bike have the shoulder sticking out toward the engine like the one in the diagram?

I am guessing someone tried going down a tooth in the front, and bought the wrong sprocket for an older monster.


mitt

Mitt,

I posted photos in the initial thread.  I cant tell because the diagram and my photos are ~180° apart.  I also counted 15 teeth but maybe I'm wrong?

In the photos of the 1st post - the little retainer has totally slid down the output shaft... Is your rear wheel freakish out of alignment, or the adjustment loose? I had one of those retainer plates that was ancient (26k miles) and worn badly it could have slid around on the output shaft... but the chain kept if from doing so, since my rear wheel was straight.

No matter what, on a set up like that - that plate should be centered on the groove of the output sshaft.

Yuu,

The rear wheel is quite well centered and I check the chain tension weekly.  I've never had to adjust it either.

Mike

Have you measured both sides? Centered on the axle is just a matter of spacers.. but alignment is a bit different. I wonder if you measured from the center of the axle to the end of the swing arm or other fixed point if you would find that the two measurements, which should be near identical as possible, are not.

D@mn, Mike.  That is scary.   

You have scratches in the retaining plate by the bolts, indicating perhaps that it walked (vibrated?) itself into an unlocked position.  Didn't think there was enough clearance between the hole and the bolt diameter to allow that to happen.   I'm so glad you caught that before it walked itself off so close to your boot!

there is more to this story

new tires ever?
new sprocket?
used bike?
new chain?
check the rear axle spacers were the installed correctly?

If his is like mine... it can't. The holes are not sufficiently large to allow the plate to rotate to a degree where the teeth of the plate are lined up with the grooves of the output shaft.

i bought bike with 182 miles used in spring of 09 from dealer.

everything is as it was since then except it was in the shop the week before because it needed a new oxygen sensor.

other than that there is no more unless something happened while it was in the shop?

Well... stuff does work loose due to vibration.. and there's always a chance of human error.

I'm sticking with my alignment theory for now...

bingo

the bike was used, Mitt is probably right.

The original  owner probably put the 14t on, dealer put it back to 15t and put the wrong one on

should i get an attorney then?

Talk to Spidey, i think he's a lawyer

need to get all the service records of the bike. etc

Being an '09, it's still under warrantly, right? If so they should just fix it.

There's no need for a lawyer, ducati should have your back

I'm not buying any of the theories, thinking sometimes shit happens.

seeing as they've used this design for over 20 years I'm not thinking it's a serious safety issue either

My bike (2003 M1000) uses a different system, so I am just learning how this one works.  What is supposed to keep the sprocket located on the shaft?  I understand the plate in the groove, but should the shoulder of the sprocket also be close to the engine case or is there enough clearance to move like the OP's photos?

mitt

there is enough room to move like on the OP's photo

it's the plate that sits in the groove and is offset so that it can't move because of the splines and is held in place by two bolts on the countershaft

It's painfully simple and could be improved, theres just very little reason to.

This looks like the same system as they had on the 620 and the "smaller" monsters.  The sprocket is kept from moving off the end of the shaft by the retaining plate.  The retaining plate *should* remain in the groove while the sprocket floats on the shaft.  The retaining plates' splines should NOT line up with the splines on the output shaft, so that retaining just rests securely in the the groove.  I suppose if you overtightened those retaining bolts, it could bent or warp the retaining plate and it could slide itself and the sprocket inward toward the engine.  To answer the other part of your question, there is nothing that keeps the sprocket from moving inward toward the engine except chain tension and wheel alignment.  There's some freeplay in the system, but I haven't seen it be a problem before (not that I've seen a bizillion of 'em or anything).

I'm betting this is human error of some sort--either in assembly(?), from the prior owner or from the shop.  

Re getting a lawyer, you're not at that point yet. 

I still think this is a serious issue because even if there was human error, there has to be some sort of mechanical way to prevent this kind of mishap.  we've put monkeys into space in 1949 and yet we can't prevent a chain from causing significant damage and possibly a serious accident.  

i've mentioned that this is out of warranty.  is there any incentive for ducati to repair this on their quarter?

Has anyone had them "have your back?"

i'm really bummed about this because to repair is ~50% of the resale value of the bike.



 

It seems like something ducati would goodwill, I used to be a service guy at a duc shop, ask nicely and be cool and the service guys will do what they can for you. Ducati Goodwills a fair amount of stuff that is questionable, you stand a pretty good chance of getting it.

A lot of it will depend on your dealer.  Sometimes Ducati will take of something if it's out of warranty as a goodwill gesture.  I have not idea when or why they do it, but it almost always requires the shop to be behind you.

Is the 'dealer' you mentioned a Ducati dealer?  I assume you bought the bike at the same place you recently had it servived.  And have you talked with the manager there?    

First off, that sucks

In pic #1, it shows that the retaining plate is not holding on to anything except the sprocket

IIRC, when I changed my sprocket on my 696, the toothed retaining plate slides onto the toothed shaft and positions the sprocket by means of the groove on the shaft - I think the retainer rotates in the groove, lining up with the screw holes in the sprocket thereby locking the sprocket in the correct position

If the sprocket was never touched, then the retaining plate was never installed correctly at the factory - time to call Ducati

Good luck

It would take some serious work to install that retainer plate wrong.  Both my 900's have the same system and I've never had a problem.  The only way you could get the grooves in the plate to line up with the splines would be to have a lot of slop in either the sprocket or the shaft.  I don't think the failure is in the retainer, you've got something else going on.  Where did you host the pics?  I'd like to see the third one blown up.

Dan,

photos are on flickr

user name = mikesmithmjs

mike

56+K on mine, original retainer.  

How can your duc be out of warranty if it is an '09?

it originally was purchased in summer of 08. first owner put 182 miles on it, then traded it in for a BMW.

That guy did not like chains.

i'm starting not to as well

I see.
 
 
 
 
...

 
 
I always hated that little plate, although you are the first person I've seen have it fail.  To me it would have to be installer error, some kind of forcing or incorrect part. 
JB weld the swingarm chainsawed chunk maybe?  :-\

no jb weld for me. i wouldn't feel comfortable using an aluminum swingarm that is no longer up to initial specs. too brittle of a metal?

Yea, it would be it would be totally gangsta.

+1.

It looks more like it has vibrated a short period of time, wear marks looks like retainer has beated against axle.

Changed 2 on mine due to slow wear during 130 000 km`s, they didn`t look like that, much smoother wear.

bfh?

I saw this same thing on my ST2, but no swingarm damage from that.  The first time I had a retainer plate break.  I overtightened one of the two screws and after a few thousand miles the one screw broke, then the plate flexed and snapped at the other end.  That one ate an aluminum sprocket in just a few hundred miles, but didn't damage anything else.

I've posted the photo of the damaged sprocket before: http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c67/scottrnelson/Ducati/Sprockets.jpg (http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c67/scottrnelson/Ducati/Sprockets.jpg)

I replaced the retainer plate with a gold colored one and within about 1000 miles it did just what I see in the photos in the original post.  It apparently pounded against the splines until it wore new grooves in it, then slid to the inside in exactly the same way.  It's probably sitting around somewhere in my garage still.  Fortunately I had started checking for stuff like that whenever I lubricated the chain, so I caught it before any damage was done.  I made sure to get one of the harder black retaining plates the next time and didn't have any more problems with it.

You'll also get less vibration if you lubricate the splines with grease once in a while.

The sliding retaining plates are something that happen once in a while to Ducatis.  You have to check for it whenever you lubricate the chain, which should be every 300-500 miles.

Hi Scott,

Thanks for the similar situation.  However, I cant seem to find in the owners manual where it says to check the sprocket plate ever time you lube the chain. Otherwise i would have checked it.  Is there a secret manual like the secret menu at in and out burger that as a ducati owner one should know about to prevent getting seriously messed up?

Even though these plates have been used for some time, that doesn't mean it is the optimal mechanism.

I don't mean to come across wrongly, but I am so upset at this situation and don't know how to go forward.

It used to look like this
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4090/5076410573_d451ef3c16_z.jpg)

It's called the DMF. Welcome.  [beer]

Sorry we couldn't help you sooner.  :-\

I hate to pile on, but this should have been caught by routine inspection way before it got this bad.  Believe it or not, motorcycles used to be unreliable pieces of machinery, and before each ride, you did a walk around and looked at things like the chain and where it was touching.

The original owner screwed up this plate somehow, and traded it in before the damage was realized.

mitt

Thanks mitt...

+1

On the upside, I don't think the swingarm looks that bad from the pictures.  If just a 1/8" of material was removed, I would call it a weight reduction/mod and keep on riding it after getting a new sprocket and plate for about $100.

And, in ranking of mechanical failures that could have lead to crashes, I had a rental 620 monster that the rear axle feel out of the swingarm while I was riding because the rental owner didn't torque the axle nuts properly.   I don't blame the bike or design though.


mitt

I hope the factory comes through for you.

My old 900 has the same set up as others have mentioned. My retaining plate chewed out at 20,000 miles. It was the original (15 years old) one and I noticed it due to a change in how my chain was positioned. It created premature wear on the rear sprocket by altering the chain alignment, but no other damage. This occurred in a short time as I clean, lube and check my chain regularly. I inspect the chain weekly. I use a straight edge and measure axel alignment, etc also. I don't rely on the indicators on the swing arm 'plates'.

My local dealer told me that it was common enough for them to keep a few retainer plates in stock. I did notice that the original plate was thinner than the replacement one which was a more substantial item.

Come to think of it the same thing happened on my '92 Superlight. I replaced the plate and all was well with no damage. I don't understand how it happens because it looks an ok system when you replace the plate and see how it works. Yet it does fail but I haven't worked out how. Possibly severe chain/sprocket misalignment would do it, but it would have to be way out you'd think.

If you follow the Tech forum for a long enough time, all of this stuff eventually comes up.  I posted about the broken retainer plate when it happened, and I posted something else when I had the other one wear through.  If there were someone dedicated enough, they would gather all of the good information like that into one place.  But that requires someone who understands the difference between the quality posts and the trash that shows up on any large forum.

I've been studying Ducatis and Monsters since I got my first one in 1997.  After a couple of years of following several different forums, I had learned most of what I needed to know, although I still didn't believe that I needed a steering damper on a 1997 M900 until I needed it and didn't have it, crashing and totaling the bike.

Anyway, I still have an interest in Ducatis even though I no longer own one.  I'm trying to learn all of the secrets about the big KTMs now.

Nothing quite like human error. :o.

i've seen about 1/2 a dozen do this in 16 years.  mainly smaller engined bikes from memory - never seen a 996 do it for instance.  probably all dual sided swingarms too, which may be a point about alignment.

there was a recall on the early st2 for this, altho none of the ones we did had any problem.  i replaced one of those plates with a chain and sprocket change (900ss) yesterday that was half worn thru, usually they're reusable with only minor marking.

possibly a chain alignment issue, get a laser aligner to make sure it's straight.  apart from that (and without good photos of the swingarm) i'd fit a new plate and go.  and go to the dealer and demand a new swingarm, just for the hell of it.  it's not a serious safety issue, and if you're looking at the chain you should see aluminum shavings fairly quickly.

there's a few reasons they put that "before you ride" stuff in manuals.

1/ for owners to ignore it.
2/ to point out your failings when it goes pear shaped
3/ to protect their arses.

There's no secret manual, but there is the workshop/service manual.  That's full of good stuff.  The user manual that is free to download and comes with the bike is pretty basic and quite useless.
You can get the workshop manual as download or CD for a few bucks on google searches or ebay.

I agree

Based on the pics, I would say that the swing arm is perfectly fine

Dumor/polish the damaged area or drop a puddle of weld in the damaged area and clean it up

Then get it repainted

This is a good story of why I do my own bike service - I just don't trust many techs out there

It could have worn through the teeth on the plate, but I've not seen one wear through, and definitely not at such a low mileage.

Perhaps the plate or sprocket were manufactured incorrectly.
This retention system depends on proper alignment of the bolt holes and the spline teeth at manufacture.

I don't have any current photos of the rear.

In terms of alignment, i have used the built in gauges on both sides of the swing arm to check before each ride.  Both sides have been equal since I bought it 18 months ago.  Are they a good indicator for alignment, or are they just for show?

The marks are not the best way to align your wheel. 

You can use a laser, or an old fashioned tape measure.

"Are they a good indicator for alignment, or are they just for show?"

Wouldn't call them "for show", rather an "uncalibrated instrument". 

Follow Nate's advice and use a simple tape measure from the swingarm pivot to the axle.  No need to locate the centers by eye, measure to the edges of the holes and average the measurements to calculate the location of the centers.  See how close you are and whether you can use the markings to give you a meaningful alignment reference.  On my bike with the older style DSS I found too much play in the plates so I do not use the markings.

   

I bought it used with 182 miles on it from the local Ducati dealer.  I haven't changed anything since I bought.  The local dealer did 600 mile service last year.

Just sayin, the rear wheel adjusters on the 696 are FAR BETTER than the ones used on the previous DSS monsters.  They are a completely different design.

Mike, I think we are all under the same assumption... someone did something to this bike before you got it, it somehow wasn't aligned/installed right.

I understand that assumption, nonetheless i would like to know if there is a better way to attach the sprocket in a more error proof way?

Of course there are better ways.  For example I imagine MotoGP bikes do not use this setup.  For another example, look up the parts diagram for the bigger Ducati bikes - they use a nut and the output shaft splines are threaded. 

The real question is - is this plate design good enough for an entry level Ducati Monster - and I think the overwhelming answer is yes - if everything else is correct also and the parts are to spec and they are installed correctly.  You are the only one I have seen documented to have such and early problem with it.

Can you realistically change the design on your bike - probably not without considerable expense.

mitt

http://www.millerwelds.com/products/mig/ (http://www.millerwelds.com/products/mig/)

Nice!

This design was acceptable for way more than entry level, small displacement bikes for years.  Nothing is idiot proof but your problem is not a design problem or flaw.  Something is screwed up and the retainer plate is a symptom.  Be thankful that the problem has shown up there and not in a broken chain, which will often means broken cases.

+1. Before every ride. Its not just checking tire pressure, but its looking at the parts of the bike that shouldn't wear, etc. Its incredibly important. I make the wife do it too so she is more familiar with the motorcycle.


and +1 to the design being acceptable for a variety of motorcycles. The other choice from Ducati is a giant freakin nut and a chisel-bent plate below it.

My 996 uses the same retainer plate design.

No issues in 10 years of racing and track riding.

The design isn't the issue.

I looked a good bit closer at the pictures, seems the retainer plate lost the teeth.
Not 100% sure, as the pics aren't the best for that view.

I've got 40k miles on my OEM retainer.

Thanks for all the info folks.

Hopefully this will be resolved before winter.  It is a bit reassuring that this is not seen very often and i'm glad it is only mechanical damage. I posted because I would not want this to happen to anyone else just in case they would not be as fortunate as I was.  I don't have a lot of riding buddies nearby to talk shop with, so even though this is my second bike since 2002 I really only have a superficial knowledge about motorcycles.  I never would have thought to check the front sprocket hidden underneath the cover. 

I guess this is a wakeup call to really pay attention to all the minutia.

You would also be able to see the rub begin on the swingarm.

I also would not necessarily consider this a "serious" safety issue.

yeah i would like to see the name of the first post changed so as to not set off a panic button to searchers and first time readers.

The consequences from this could have been dire and hence this is serious. Also, no one out there would like to have their ride damaged like this especially if it is "preventable" like many of you seem to believe. I check the tire pressure and measure chain tension weekly never noticing any rubbing on the swing arm during these checks.  I suspect there are others out there like me who didn't even know that this could happen what ever the reason (which hasn't been identified).  Maybe I was riding along ignorant of an issue smiling because of the fun I was having.  I suspect that most of you out there were unaware that this could happen as well.  Some of you think this is human error (on my part even) but if there are others out there like me, they should be  aware of this issue as it could be serious.  

Amen to that

point is this isn't a serious SAFETY issue, it's a serious Mechanical issue on YOUR bike, not all 696s.

right raux thats what i said "my 2009 ducati monster 696"

I'm not even sure I'd consider it serious. Its an issue, sure, its unfortunate - absolutely, and it has made a mess. Serious to me is an issue with brake failures, an engine seizing, catching fire, giving crabs, etc.

DID 520 isn't a stock 696 chain is it?

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4038/5075529333_51f2002ce2_b.jpg)

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4150/5085623119_6891d7a45d_b.jpg)

I'm under the impression that everything is stock because the dealer never said anything wasn't stock except the frame sliders and a stick on tank protector.  however impressions can be false.

the bike is still at the shop, i'm still waiting to hear if this will be fixed under goodwill so i will have to count from the above photo.  There markings i can see show "Z45 02/08"

DID 520 is indeed the stock 696 chain.  100% sure.

And that for sure is also the stock rear sprocket.

I cant wait to find out what is found.  Things just look wrong!    Why is the sprocket and shaft covered in rust and everything else is covered in lube?  You would think a little bit would have found its way there.  And the teeth on the front sprocket are way too worn to have so few miles.

Mine spurts a little rust from the shaft splines and plate lock notch.  The mechanisms are subjected to cyclic stresses, corrosion/fretting is common.  I wouldn't worry about that too much.   I don't think that area can be made pretty if you ride the bike.   

What is chain freeplay, with & w/o rider?

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4149/5086487692_32b20ddf7c.jpg)

I made this simple gauge to keep with the bike and use it to check tension. The chain pins measure directly in the center of the line when placed on the flat part of the swing arm.  I have never checked when sitting on the bike.

The homemade gauge is a good idea, Mike.  It seems like you are mainly measuring the drop.  What is the distance when you push up on the chain?  

i cant say because i never measured while pushing up.

Mike, on the older swingarms the chain slack spec is measured as the difference between the drop (What you are measuring) and the rise (pushing up).

I'm not familiar with your swingarm, but I think one measurement may not be sufficient to determine your chain slack.  Your gauge can help you see if the chain is stretching over time, but I'm not sure it helps you see if it is too tight.  I gather the bike is at the shop, so you can't take a measurement, right? 

Right.  I was just following how the manual says to measure the tension.  btw, i've never adjusted it as it always was in the 47mm range.

If that is the way the manual says to measure it, that's good.  Note that if you only take the drop measurement, that may mean something different if you go to a much larger or smaller rear sprocket (conditions probably not addressed in the manual).  So a more general method (difference between rise and drop) that allows you to measure chain slack in different conditions is a good tool to have.  Then if you calibrate that measurement method to the one you use, measuring only the drop, that may be satisfactory and a time saver too, another good tool.   Since your sprockets are stock, this may just be an academic concern and I'm sure your dealer will look at the chain slack as part of his inspection.

Hey all, I know this is an old post, but I would just like to say how glad I am these things are still online! I've just gotten back from my weekley food shop on the M796 I own to discover the exact same issue as the original poster! javascript:void(0);

I noticed the shine of bare metal where the chain had sawn away at the swinging arm, and upon investigating the countershaft sprocket on a hunch, discovered it had been pushed all the way back to the engine block, the chain was alarmingly tight, so I slackened it off which practically caused the sprocket to fall off.

For what it's worth, my 796 is 2011 reg, and again has only been touched by the duc dealer I bought it from (this one was an 1100 mile ex demo) and is still under warrenty.

I personally agree with the original poster, it is a serious safety issue, or more precisely a potential one, as should the swing arm be sawn through, or the countershaft sprocket jolt loose, the chain would be free to wreak havoc.

I'm hoping the dealer will be gracious about sorting out the repairs under warrenty, and supply a courtesy bike in the mean time.

Interestingly though, my countershaft was in the exact same condition as the OP's- rusty appearance and dry, whereas the chain and rear sprocket lubed and in good condition.

you know the rules...pics or it didn't happen

(http://i1073.photobucket.com/albums/w385/coffeebaronhall/Image0258.jpg)

(http://i1073.photobucket.com/albums/w385/coffeebaronhall/Image0256.jpg)

(http://i1073.photobucket.com/albums/w385/coffeebaronhall/Image0255.jpg)

Proof enough javascript:void(0);

Yeah.. that's pretty much not cool..
And I agree on your wording of the issue.

While there has been no serious safety issue to yourself or the OP in this case, there is a fair potential to seriously harm someone.

If it's still in warranty as you say then your dealer will look after you. If not, consult another dealer.

I really do not understand how this could happen.  We have a case here with two similar bikes/issues.  My M900 uses the same, and I have serviced a number of older monsters with the same system, including changing sprockets and chains and have never seen this issue.  I have nearly 30k on my original plate and it is slightly worn as  you would expect from performing its duty.  No where near failure though, to the point that I have written it off as something I will not have to replace for the life of the bike.

I have broken teeth on rear and front sprockets, and ridden too long with a worn, stiff linked chain in my naive/tightwad days. So I feel qualified in saying I have tested the system and its performed very well.

Getting back to the problem, I am convinced it is a chain tension or wheel spacing/alignment issue.  Since the sprockets are being pulled inward, that would indicate the wheel alignment or spacing is putting stress on the chain to move inward.  Since the retaining plate is the weak link, it gives first.  If it is rear wheel spacing/alignment, we should see more wear on the inside of the rear sprocket.

Can you guys check your rear sprockets and take pictures?

What was the final story on the OPs bike?

This second incident is on a 796 though, single swing arm.  Hard to have an alignment issue, and chain tension measurement is simple and very specific.  (That bit's been flogged to death in many other threads.) 
I know what I'm going to check on mine tomorrow for sure.

As cyberswine said, sssa the wheel alignment is not an issue, and I followed the adjustment advice of the duc mechanic at the dealers of making sure the chain was slightly on the slack side of things- although I've only adjusted it once in the 5k I've ridden it.

@ BastrdHk i'll try and get some pics if I can, but the bike is now at the dealers being worked on- incidentally Ducati Card Assistance were excellent with their speed in collecting my bike and ferrying us bothe to the dealer.

I'm going to post the outcome of this and what findings there are once I hear back from the mechanics/Ducati. I'm glad for the warranty.

A few ST2's had this issue, and I've seen it on one other Duc, but can't remember which right now.

I suspect it's a problem with a lack of adequate hardness of the output shaft.

When the retainer plate wears through, sometimes the sprocket goes inboard, sometimes outboard.
I've not puzzled out why it varies.

Please do and hopefully they find an actual cause. I've had bikes with this setup for eons without anything like this weirdness. No indication of this on my 796 but no desire to start now! What was the production date of yours? Mine was 06/2011.

Curmudgeon i'll check that and let you know, it's an 11 reg, and it was the ducati owned demo for my area prior to my purchase.

incidentally how is the milleage on yours? if your past mine i'd be inclined to say you'll be fine :)

The production date was on one of the frame stickers. Perhaps yours were already removed. I saved mine on wax paper.

Only 2,500 miles as I have another bike as well and neither is primary transportation. Weather permitting, I'll catch you up before the summer is over. Only had it since August. Very curious about the cause of your issue, so I trust they'll come up with something "intelligent".

My 796 was an 02/11 build, coming on 7K klicks now.  Took the cover off the sprocket and did a complete inspection and clean, everything is good but the tolerance is minimal between the chain and the swingarm by design.  FWIW I can see where a slighty loose chain, or a stiff link, could start to gouge the cast aluminum.  Really don't know about the sprocket shifting on the shaft though.........

Well guys a little news, @ Curmudgeon- mine was also an 06/11 manufacture date, but based on what i'm due to type, don't feel overly concerned.

Just had a call from the mechanic at the dealers, the ducati technician came and looked at it, and felt that the damage was a result of an over-tightened chain....now i've had this bike for 5000 of it's 6k miles, and it has had the chain adjusted once...by the mechanic at the dealers at around 4k miles. The mechanic was trying to ask was it not difficult to push the bike around, not once has the monster been stiff or resistant to being walked, and I know what it's like to move a bike with a tight chain as I've owned plenty in the last 12 years of riding. The mechanic is going to report this back to Ducati and see where it goes from there.

 [bang] I honestly feel pretty let down by this, as I feel Ducati are trying to walk away from this being taken care of under warranty, and I was sold the bike with confident bolster that Ducati are very good with honouring warranty claims as they treat things on a case by case basis. I hope the mechanic comes back with some good news, as I would hate to have to start seeking any consumer/legal advice.

Incidentally the same dealer didn't have any facilities for tyre changes, and as such suggested I go to another place (recommended by the dealer) when I had to get my original tyre changed due to a puncture. I do wonder if there was some fault caused by the, with the chain.....but then again, it never felt tight, and I lubed and checked it every 2-3 days  [thumbsdown]

Historically a loose chain is better than a tight chain.  Not "sloppy loose" (though many people do run them this way).

Thanks for the update. You didn't actually tell us what damage the factory rep found. Did they not tell you what repairs were required?

After this noise, I did check my drive train the other evening. Everything is fine and my adjustment is 60mm - 62mm by-the-book. In fact, with this amount of slack I can push the chain up into light contact with the plastic guard/guide under the swing arm. At my first service I had a small amount of snatch adjusted out at 900 miles. It was a tiny amount of adjustment according to my dealer/mechanic/ex-racer/owner. Will keep an eye on it though and I'm VERY sensitive to the slightest change on my bikes.

Really surprised that Ducati would give a franchise to a dealer which can't even change boots on a bike! I doubt DNA would permit that as rubber is part of routine service.

Not familiar with your consumer laws there. Here you would have no issue since at no time did YOU make any adjustment to the drive train. The shop which changed your rear tire muddies the water a bit, but if they were acting as your dealer's "agent", I'd still presume you are off the hook.

Where is the next nearest dealer? I'd find a real specialist Ducati dealer if I were you!

Ahh, the consumer laws here are tricky, i've never had an easy time of warranty claims-for example, our couch when purchased had a broken spine, this was discovered on the day of dilivery and notified the next day-5 year gauruntee, and that took several calls including to the consumer watchdog for them to agree to replace it...

as for the what the rep found, i've not been fully explained past as stated the rep had seen this before on bikes running the chain too tight, the mechanic mentioned the retaining plate being worn. As the dealer is going to mention more about the issue of not having done any fettling myself to the bike, he left it at that for today.

I agree with what you say about the tyres, however I try to angle it I have only followed the advice of an authourised Ducati dealer here in th UK. I wish we had the consumer protection laws as you guys do in the states, corporations and dishonest merchants can get away with murder here!

Fortunatley I've been loaned a bike for the time being by the dealer- It's not a Duc, but the XT660X they've leant me has been surprisingly fun.

I'll post more once I find out where I'll have to proceed.

You have all kinds of rights with vehicles in the UK, just can't recall the terminology. It's NOT like a sofa warranty.  ;)

While remaining very friendly with your dealer principal and making nothing but positive noises about your fondness for the bike, but emphasising your disappointment with this defect, whisper in his ear that you may next persue the UK equivalent of our "lemon law". You haven't had the bike long after all. THAT should get him cranking to have Ducati pay up and fix the bike properly and quickly. The cost to him would be large if he fails, so he'd have every incentive to get Ducati hopping. I've been on the dealer end of this a few times.

Keep us posted!

BTW, I've a Morgan acquaintance in the Cotswolds who has for years bought and sold Ducatis. I know you're in the NW somewhere but he might know a really good dealer closer to your patch if you have no luck with the above. Worth a try possibly...

Hey guys, been a couple of days, but I've got some news...good news I would say :)

The dealer called me yesterday, and informed me that they had repaired my bike as a temp measure so I can use it, whilst they get the warranty replacement parts sorted with Ducati UK, as a swing arm will take a little while to order :) So today I go pick my moster up andawait the parts to arrive for the repairs. I was a little sceptical taking it repaired, but I believe it's genuine, just making sure I don't sign anything!

Curmudgeon, thanks for the offer of assistance, it's a good feeling to know how helpful the community is, even on the other side of the world :)

Incidentally, I sought a second opinion from another mechanic, who agreed with my thoughts that an over tightened chain would not produce the damage seen in the pics from my 796 and it was just the dealer stalling.

I'll look forward to hearing if the dealer had any more news to tell me today.

 [thumbsup]

Sounds like good news there! I'd still be very curious as to the real cause of this failure. So see whose arm(s) you can twist to get to the bottom of this.

Best Wishes!

OK, not replied as to what the real verdict was on the damage done, but that will be as I've been unable to find that out yet lol. Turns out it may take some time for Ducati to get back with the replacement parts and verdict.

However this is now turning into somewhat inconsequential to me. I'm going to be swapping the 796 in for either an XT660X or XT660Z start of this next week, as after a weeks loan of a 660x, I realised how much more suitable for my daily ride this bike was. Tried a Tenere the other day, enjoyed, different to the X, and not 100% sure which I preferred, but know I'd be happy on either.

On an interesting note with the swingarm, I was considering trading it in at a non Duc dealer, and they actually said that after getting a mech to check it out, they would take it in and sell it even with the swingarm damaged as it is, as it isn't a safety issue or MOT failure.

Interesting. Given that your bike is your only ride, I can see how that might be the case. A 796 by comparison is more like an A10 Warthog.  ;) You must have long legs?

On Friday I visited my local Triumph mechanic to have a couple of things done and another retired engineer / bike mechanic I know dropped by with his new, black KLR 650 with a large but tidy aftermarket windscreen. Looked a lot better than that XT, but that's MY taste.  8) He'd just returned from a 2,000 mile tour in four days and his had been fitted with his NAV and some other touring toys and some Avon Roadriders. You might want to look at one of those too? (I'd need a ladder!  ;D )

When I bought my 796, what I was really looking for was a small, light ST. Unfortunately Ducati tried ST's already and they just didn't move. I looked at an F800ST which boiled down to an overpriced ST with buzzy engine and numerous issues. The 796 just blew it away for much less $$$ and better handling and better ABS and better ergonomics. Small wonder BMW doesn't sell many ST's over here! The Monster would be a perfect platform for a mini-ST IMO, but only if the fairing solution were developed in Ducati's wind tunnel. (I'm always amazed at how well the headlight / bikini fairing works on the 796 at 80 MPH vs my naked T-100 "standard".)

If you ever discover what Ducati found with you bike, I'd still like to know!

Haha, surprisingly I'm not too long legged, but I've a broad frame all the way down, so i think that gives me more stretch on tall bikes.

Yeah the 796 is an awesome bike, I've had a blast on it and can't sing the praises of it's handling characteristics enough. I may be getting it traded in at the dealer I purchased it from for the XT, so I could still try and keep an ear open as to the final verdict.
If I do find out you'll be the first to know!

It's a funny role that of the ST motorcycle, I still feel my VFR750 was the best bike i've owned for that purpose, comfort, speed and longevity in abundance, and an unshakable MPG figure regardless of how you ride. I've said if I could find a timewarp zero miler of the last of the 750's, i'd be pushed not to snap someones arm off for it.

Any update from your dealer on the cause of your problem? I figured they might be more forthcoming since you no longer own the bike?

i sort of want to say the rear wheel alignment was fudged on this one, with the dual sided swing arm, its important to have the axel going straight

A 796 is SSS.  ;D

the original post was about a 696....

Strange.  I do wonder what caused this!.  I have the same attachment method on my Duc, and it's got 36,000+ miles on the original oblong part that locks the sprocket in place.

JM

I have a 796 also with 8000 miles on it. I also would like to know if they found a cause. I check my bike over regularly, and after reading this I went to look at the stock sprocket and everything looks fine, no sign of wear on the washer. But after hearing about two similar issues in the same thread, I'm a little worried, and would like to know if we have a root cause...

I'm beginning to think that the wrong replacement sprocket was fitted, and this failure results from running the drive train out of line. I've had this mounting system on five other Ducatis I've owned and none ever had an issue. Would be nice to hear from Coffeebaron of course.

I have 16k kms on the bike. have run 15t (stock), 14t (bought from dealer in OKC) and then the 15t (stock) again. no issues, same mounting plate.

I think you guys need to look at wrong part or wrong install procedure.

You could be right...

I'm especially curious since I just installed the 14 tooth AFAM, which I noticed is missing the 1mm recess at the outside of the socket. (The stock 15 tooth has a 1mm recess where the washer sits). So with the 14 tooth face being flush, the front sprocket now sits 1mm towards the inside as compared to stock, which you can see on the chain guide. It's not excessive, and the insides of the chain links don't quite touch the middle of the top guide. Having read this thread, I wonder if 1mm of chain misalignment would be enough to cause the issue over time.

I like the way the 14 tooth feels much better, especially around the city. I'm going to get used to the new sprocket over the weekend and if I like it, I'm going to go with a 15/42 setup instead to keep the same gear ratio, but hopefully avoid any issues.

Are you sure you have the right one for the 796's? Mine has no recess but is from Driven Racing and I can't detect any misalignment. My chain pins definitely sit squarely on the center of the chain guide. Never realized before this thread that M and Hyper 796's were different and distinct because my dealer fitted mine from new, but that's pretty clear on the Monster Parts site. http://www.monsterparts.com/pc/52604d15/Chain-Sprocket/52604d15.html (http://www.monsterparts.com/pc/52604d15/Chain-Sprocket/52604d15.html)

Pretty sure I ordered the right one. It has Driven packaging, but I didn't realize the HM796 and M796 were different? Are you sure? Even the link you sent shows both applications. This is the one I got: http://www.ca-cycleworks.com/products/final-drive/front-sprockets/52608d-14-5366 (http://www.ca-cycleworks.com/products/final-drive/front-sprockets/52608d-14-5366)

It says OEM Euro sprocket, but should be the same. If you look at the sprocket, the front face doesn't have the recess like the stock one does. This recess is KEY. This will cause a 1mm misalignment. Is yours recessed like the stock one? I can't see from your link I can only see the backside of the sprocket...

Since you have the Driven packaging, the number on that should read 1067-525-14T. That's the one for the 796's. If you look at the link I sent, it shows 796 M/HYP and everything else.

Don't get hung up on the recess on the stock 15T. The machining of the Driven can compensate for that. You need to look at the chain run. If the pins of the chain are centered over the rib on the chain guide on the swing arm, you have no issue.

^^ This.

I'm another who ran aftermarket 14t sprocket on my M696 for 1000's of kms with no problems whatsoever.  

I agree with others though.... it would be nice to hear back from those who've had the problem and subsequently resolved it.........

 [popcorn]