Ducati Monster Forum

Guy on another forum (http://www.ducati.ms/forums/42-monster/97948-monster-651-a.html) is looking at a monster that has a 3V motor in it, supposedly called a Monster 651.  Anyone ever heard of one?  Owner says there were only 28 made.  Is it just an ST3 motor in a monster?

(http://virdung.net/651-1.jpg)
(http://virdung.net/651-2.jpg)
(http://virdung.net/651-3.jpg)

ST 3 was water cooled.

This post has been baffling me too.  This engine is listed as 651?  Very unusual.  Hopefully a VIN can clear it up!  Whoops, read the specs wrong the first time! 

You're right, I had forgotten, that makes this even stranger. 

Maybe Dave R will come up with something.

I asked him for a VIN, it will be a good reference to start..   it looks stock other than the oil line under the oil pressure switch.  Note it also has a factory oil cooler.  not sure about displacement..651??  Can't be sure if this in the US or ??  I see no reflectors and the over-sized lic plate holder.  We looked at ST3 heads and those are not them but I see it is dual plugged??   I have an e mail off to DNA to see if anyone has a clue??   strange one. 

I saw that on .ms

I've never seen anything like it...not that that means a damn thing. ;D

Hmm... interesting.
[popcorn]

 [popcorn]

I would like to see a pic of the side cover under the seat to see what it says.  It just looks so stock, it doesn't look like a custom build at all.

It is probably a secret prototype that was never produced.  Somebody took it home from the factory before it could be destroyed.

I like the placement of the 2nd spark plug.  It looks cleaner than the 2nd plug on the 1000DS.

That's a head-scratcher.

That's definitely a small-case motor, so it's not an ST3, as well as lacking the water cooling.

3 studs on the header flange.

Spark plugs are in the same location as the ST3 I've got in right now.

Weird.  [coffee]

Maybe it is a custom engine with ST3 heads bolted onto a small case motor.  Notice the silver paint on the heads does not match the brighter and newer looking silver paint of the rest of the engine.  

I've never seen an ST3 engine.  Do the heads of the ST3 have water jackets?  If not then they could be grafted onto an air-cooled motor. 

super odd.

i'm asking jeff tomorrow. its certainly not in the computer in front of me.

edit: i texted him just now bc i'm curious

and...

no word yet, he's in mexico city for D.N.A. stuff. booo.

 [popcorn]  [popcorn]  [popcorn]  [popcorn]  [popcorn]  [drink]  [drink]  [drink]  [drink]  [popcorn]  [popcorn]  [popcorn]  [popcorn]  [popcorn]  [popcorn]  [popcorn]  [popcorn]  [popcorn]

say what?  is that why he hasn't called me?  I'll bet I can talk Spanish in circles.....he should have said something.  dam him. :(

It's *definitely* not an ST3 engine.
Those look like an SBK cylinder and head, been looking a lot at one lately.
And they're big-case motors.

That Monster is a small case.

To add to the mystery, that appears to be a plastic tank.

Anyone have an air-cooled 2007 ST3?
Ducati has an ST3 model year 2007 listed as air-cooled.
Misprint?  ???
http://ducati.com/bikes/sporttouring/st3/2007/tech_spec.do (http://ducati.com/bikes/sporttouring/st3/2007/tech_spec.do)

only st3's i've ever seen have radiators

They were water cooled, I dont think you could just plug and play with ST3 heads

also pretty sure ST3's came with the same boring stock belt covers as the other modern 2v's

ask the guy who saw it if the printing on the side pods says Ducati Monster 651, tried cleaning up the image but res isnt high enough

I'd peg this as highly suspect, I've never heard of this nor seen it pop up on the dealer fische

 [popcorn] 


mitt

That's a misprint.

The ST3 in my shop now is an '05, it's water cooled.
The '07 parts catalogue shows the same water-cooled stuff I'm looking at 'in the metal'.

Those belt covers look just like the ones here on the bike in my shop.

ST2's had water cooled cyls and air cooled heads.

Are the 3's heads water cooled?

Yeah, they're water cooled heads.

They look a lot like the Desmoquattro heads, just single cam and the big valve covers just like the bike in the picture.

I have scoured the site that those pics are hosted on and can't find anything but the three images

edit: I'm an idiot, it is the OP's site, just wasted a lot of time

 [popcorn]

Nothing to add....

I'm so curious to see what the deal is on this bike!  I posted on your thread in the other forum, I'm not anywhere near an expert, but I checked all over to see if I could find anything on this.  As others have mentioned on both posts, the first logical thought is the ST3, but they are water cooled.  Any bores of 620's I have ever seen were to 750cc.  Man, so curious to see what is the correct story on this bike!!

The threads on the other two forums are not mine, the bike just made me curious and I wanted the thoughts of the real monster board

Ah, just noticed that.  I hear ya, I'm also so curious to see if anyone knows the real deal on this.

There was a limited run of air cooled 3 valve STs for countries where water is not abundant.
























Anybody wanna buy a bridge? [cheeky]

Talked to Jeff - another dealer got to him before I could (how?) about this! Talk about the age of lightspeed communication.

He said a better question is not "what or when" but "why [does it exist]".

Honestly, if I had the talent and resources I'd build oddball one-offs just to mess with people.

Found the original post online
It's for sale in France
One of 28, never on the open market it says.

Story goes the shop where it is now got it from a guy who searches Italy for rare bikes.

It is a prototype and I have VIN and Motor numbers if you are interested.
They are asking for best bids basically, knowing this is a gem.

gotta link?

http://www.leboncoin.fr/motos/143916289.htm?ca=12_s (http://www.leboncoin.fr/motos/143916289.htm?ca=12_s)

I was the second English speaker to talk to the seller.

Awesome, thanks Raux, my google fu is weak I have been searching and searching for this thing.

Translated from the ad.  1,900km

Motorcycle collectibles, rare, 28 copies left in the world, never sell, cheap ducati single model, 651 to 3-valve cylinder head area cooled, dual ignition box has 6 speed, injection, completely original model that works well, I EXPECT ANY COLLECTOR YOUR BIKE WITHOUT SO SERIOUS PROPOSAL AND PRICE DOES NOT COMPLY WITH THE ANNOUNCEMENT THANK YOU POSSIBILITY OF DELIVERY MOTO CASSE SOUTH WEST 05 53 40 18 42 TUESDAY TO SATURDAY 9AM TO 12H / 14H A 19H OR 06 30 06 71 45 ALL HOURS

Bizarre that the bike escaped the factory.

AFAIK, prototypes that do not meet emissions regulations *cannot* be sold by the factory.
That was the case back in the '90's when I worked for Yamaha.

The buyer probably won't be able to register and ride it if it was a prototype.  Would be nice for a duc collection though.

wow! amazing...
I'd love to get hold of a set of them heads!

The ST2's I've seen were water cooled heads and barrels IIRC.

The DS1000 motors have the same stud spacing and timing belts as the ST3's do (as well as the same bore/stroke).  Likely it was a de-stroked ST3 that got DS1000 barrels and some custom heads.

When did the DS 2v come out?
This was likely a prototype for that
They probably were thinking to try the 3v configuration and found it didnt work well on the aircooled motor.

Stu, this is a 750 though, so wonder if it's a short stroke or sleeved (not likely with 3v) 1000 or if it's actually a small-case DS

2003 was first year for 1000DS in US, not sure when it was introduced to Europe.

mitt

A long retired Ducati dealer owner I know has talked about these bikes before.  Unfortunately I don't remember the details but have a phone call in to learn more now.  He did a lot of hot weather testing for Ducati over the years.

He also talked a LOT about the aircooled 4V heads that were prototyped @15-18 years ago but never released.  Even as of about 8-10 years ago, he knew where they were stashed at Ducati still.  Last time he was there they had been "moved". 

There are a couple of other interesting combinations prototyped / tested -- but never thought any of them escaped into private hands like the one in this thread.

Unfortunately what is the true value of it besides "curiosity sakes"?  What would someone actually pay to acquire and put into a museum?  I can only think of Barber who might be a buyer.  If it was a racebike/etc prototype -- it would be insanely valuable and many people would be chasing and tossing money at it to be the owner.

[popcorn]

This thread needs more pics....more prototyping....more mythology....


+1

[popcorn]  [popcorn]

Someone on another thread about this bike said someone listed a 3V 05 multi on the same site that the bike is for sale on, I searched and I'm pretty sure it was just a DS 1000 that he saw, but I did find this bad ass track SS
http://www.leboncoin.fr/motos/136399628.htm?ca=12_s (http://www.leboncoin.fr/motos/136399628.htm?ca=12_s)

fun!  999-era tail, 996-era modified front fairing

(http://193.164.196.40/images/594/5948861401.jpg)

It's different...sort of looks like a mutant..

Indicated displacement is 651cc's.  It is built into a small case (no ridges and a smaller oil sump area) engine, so perhaps they overbored the cylinder studs, undercut the barrel snouts...  It's all a guess really. 

I would guess they put a very small crank in it (maybe M400 @ 51mm stroke), used the larger cylinder head stud spacing and then ran some small bored DS1000 barrels in it and had a bore somewhere in the neighborhood of 90mm or so.  The larger bore would be to accommodate the 3x valves in that head.

Likely fed through the APTC slipper clutch to the small case 6-speed and built sometime (I would guess) around 2003-04.

[popcorn]

good thread

more tinfoil hats and black helicopters please :D

This is just another typical design exercise by our friends in Bologna.

Bear in mind, these guys are just like Americans who sit in their backyard shop (like truckinduc (http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=6965.0)) and make neat shit.  They spend their weekends culling together the spare parts and then throw it together to see if it flies.  Main difference is they drink wine and not beer.  Well, probably beer too...

Isn't that how the Monster was born?

Isn't one of the Cagiva's a 3V?

JM

none that I am aware of, either Ducati-engine or Suzuki TL.

My LT Synder manual has pics of what he refers to as a Desmotre.  After poking around it seems to be the ST3 that was 3V.

JM

Desmodue is used for all 2v models and d-tre for all 3v models