Ducati Monster Forum

Moto Board => Tech => Topic started by: Billyzoom on October 20, 2010, 08:11:59 PM

Title: Anyone pre-emptively coated their tanks with Caswell's?
Post by: Billyzoom on October 20, 2010, 08:11:59 PM
I waded through some of the tank threads with regard to swelling.

I've got a 07 S4Rs and was thinking of doing custom paint down the road. I hate the thought that my tank is certain to deform, and I'll be out a custom paint job.  My tank's in great shape now and I'm thinking I should try to preserve it.

Sounds like coating it with Caswell's is the only solution at this point.  Have any of you done this yet?  How simple is it? 

I'd appreciate any FHE, and I'm more inclined to pay someone to do it.  Speeddog?   ;D

Joel

Title: Re: Anyone pre-emptively coated their tanks with Caswell's?
Post by: Speeddog on October 21, 2010, 11:26:35 AM
More than happy to do it.

I've no experience with Caswell's.
I've done POR15, but that's for steel tanks.
Title: Re: Anyone pre-emptively coated their tanks with Caswell's?
Post by: ducpainter on October 21, 2010, 12:05:55 PM
I've used the Caswell product...

It's a little harder to use IMO.
Title: Re: Anyone pre-emptively coated their tanks with Caswell's?
Post by: rustoric on October 21, 2010, 12:40:39 PM
I've had the caswell kit in the closet since i had my tank swapped a few weeks back, just not the time to do it. Besides not having a ride while it dries, finding something to plug the cap and pump holes so i don't ruin the paint is what's been holding me back

I'll pop the tank up today and see how the pump sits and see if i can find a plug before the weekend
Title: Re: Anyone pre-emptively coated their tanks with Caswell's?
Post by: sbrguy on October 21, 2010, 01:15:20 PM
so wthat makes the caswell hard to use? is it thicker? takes longer to dry? etc.  just curious.
Title: Re: Anyone pre-emptively coated their tanks with Caswell's?
Post by: ducpainter on October 21, 2010, 01:20:31 PM
Quote from: sbrguy on October 21, 2010, 01:15:20 PM
so wthat makes the caswell hard to use? is it thicker? takes longer to dry? etc.  just curious.
Thicker and it has a very short 'kick' time. As mixed it is very difficult to drain excess.

The full cure is not unreasonable.
Title: Re: Anyone pre-emptively coated their tanks with Caswell's?
Post by: Speeddog on October 21, 2010, 02:22:43 PM
Just to make sure everyone is on the same page, the tank in question is plastic.
Title: Re: Anyone pre-emptively coated their tanks with Caswell's?
Post by: rustoric on October 21, 2010, 03:21:08 PM
Quote from: humorless dp on October 21, 2010, 01:20:31 PM
Thicker and it has a very short 'kick' time. As mixed it is very difficult to drain excess.

did you thin it at all?
Title: Re: Anyone pre-emptively coated their tanks with Caswell's?
Post by: ducpainter on October 21, 2010, 04:28:01 PM
Quote from: rustoric on October 21, 2010, 03:21:08 PM
did you thin it at all?
I didn't...

I won't use it again without starting at the 10% they recommend.

Quote from: Speeddog on October 21, 2010, 02:22:43 PM
Just to make sure everyone is on the same page, the tank in question is plastic.
I don't think the Caswell product is suitable for a rusty steel tank.

I have issues with the 'process'.
Title: Re: Anyone pre-emptively coated their tanks with Caswell's?
Post by: duccarlos on October 21, 2010, 05:08:41 PM
I just got it. I need to apply it soon.
Title: Re: Anyone pre-emptively coated their tanks with Caswell's?
Post by: Heath on October 28, 2010, 08:12:53 AM
So is this a sure fire fix?  I got my new tank back in April and am thinking of taking it off to coat it before it starts warping.
Title: Re: Anyone pre-emptively coated their tanks with Caswell's?
Post by: ducatiz on October 28, 2010, 08:46:39 AM
It works.
Title: Re: Anyone pre-emptively coated their tanks with Caswell's?
Post by: MotoCreations on October 28, 2010, 09:42:48 AM
note:  a few dealerships, myself and others have noticed that if you remove the plastic tank -- drain it -- and put it somewhere for a few months thus that air can vent through it regularly.  (don't do this near your natural gas / oil powered furnace or hot water heater!)  The tank goes "back" to original shape and the lumps/deformation reverses.  Not 100% every single tank though. 



Title: Re: Anyone pre-emptively coated their tanks with Caswell's?
Post by: sbrguy on October 28, 2010, 09:55:40 AM
it sounds like the tank can be fixed by letting it sit for a few months but that is really not a great solutionto the problem, good if you have the extra tank by all means then switch them out every 6 months and it will be fine, but i'm curious as to if the caswell solution is the final fix that may be useful for even brand new bikes to be done as a preventative measure so that the tank never fails.
Title: Re: Anyone pre-emptively coated their tanks with Caswell's?
Post by: sbrguy on October 28, 2010, 09:57:46 AM
Quote from: humorless dp on October 21, 2010, 01:20:31 PM
Thicker and it has a very short 'kick' time. As mixed it is very difficult to drain excess.

The full cure is not unreasonable.

so it works but its a pain to use.  in that case its a job that is probably best left to professionals like you to do, good for you (increased business) and good for the customer (no headache of having to deal with the coating process.)
Title: Re: Anyone pre-emptively coated their tanks with Caswell's?
Post by: Heath on October 28, 2010, 10:49:49 AM
I read the directions and it doesn't sound too hard to use.  It does sound like one of those things though the more you do it the easier it gets.  How much would someone charge to do it for you? Not including the $40 product.
Title: Re: Anyone pre-emptively coated their tanks with Caswell's?
Post by: duccarlos on October 28, 2010, 11:03:41 AM
From what I understand it's a 2 hour job.
Title: Re: Anyone pre-emptively coated their tanks with Caswell's?
Post by: ducpainter on October 28, 2010, 12:00:46 PM
Quote from: duccarlos on October 28, 2010, 11:03:41 AM
From what I understand it's a 2 hour job.
Does that include cleaning the tank, if it's used?

What's the labor rate?
Title: Re: Anyone pre-emptively coated their tanks with Caswell's?
Post by: duccarlos on October 28, 2010, 12:17:23 PM
Quote from: humorless dp on October 28, 2010, 12:00:46 PM
Does that include cleaning the tank, if it's used?

What's the labor rate?


I would have though that you would be answering. Didn't you apply it? Draining the tank takes a while from what I understand it's a 2 hour effort to apply fully. If you do it ypurself, it only cost you your own time.
Title: Re: Anyone pre-emptively coated their tanks with Caswell's?
Post by: ducatiz on October 28, 2010, 12:22:28 PM
Quote from: MotoCreations on October 28, 2010, 09:42:48 AM
note:  a few dealerships, myself and others have noticed that if you remove the plastic tank -- drain it -- and put it somewhere for a few months thus that air can vent through it regularly.  (don't do this near your natural gas / oil powered furnace or hot water heater!)  The tank goes "back" to original shape and the lumps/deformation reverses.  Not 100% every single tank though. 

What is happening is the water is wicking out of the nylon inner layer.  In simple cases, the water has only penetrated a little and the tank shrinks back, no problem.

The dilemma is that the nylon has normally-occurring cavities inside it.  You can see these on many tanks when you look inside, you'll see a bubble on the surface of the nylon.  Ducati/Acerbis must do some kind of QA to test that the bubbles are not near the outer surface.

If moisture reaches one of these bubbles, the water will simply pool inside it and won't dry out.  Similarly, I have seen tanks where the outer surface has bubbled or gotten soft/mushy to the touch. 

If you decide to dry out your tank and then apply the coating, you need to inspect it carefully before and after drying.  Make sure there are NO soft spots or bubbling from the outside.  You need to finger every centimeter of the tank.  If every spot of the tank is firm, then you probably don't have any water occlusion problems. 

Once the coating is applied, the water is forever trapped.  Make sure you do it right.  If you live in a humid area where the humidity is over 35-40% regularly, you need to figure out how to get it lower so the water comes out.  Desiccant packs are helpful.  If you have the setup, use a hair dryer with no heat.  Air flow will make it faster, but the air still needs to be dry. 

You can find big mil-surp desiccant packs on the web.  Stick them in the oven for 6 hours and they reset.  You can buy the silica and put it in a cheese cloth too.

Title: Re: Anyone pre-emptively coated their tanks with Caswell's?
Post by: ducpainter on October 28, 2010, 12:35:30 PM
Quote from: duccarlos on October 28, 2010, 12:17:23 PM
I would have though that you would be answering. Didn't you apply it? Draining the tank takes a while from what I understand it's a 2 hour effort to apply fully. If you do it ypurself, it only cost you your own time.

I used it on a brand new fiberglass tank. There was no fuel residue. It took all of the 2 hours, plus making plugs for the openings.

Regardless what the instructions say my understanding is that fuel residue will not rinse out with other solvents like acetone, so that would mean using detergent and water with a drying time afterward as well as heat and airflow during the dry.

If you do it yourself and it doesn't work all you're out is some self kicks to the ass and living with a screwed up job. Replacing the tank is optional. If I charge money to do it I'm out the cost of a tank and my reputation.

Like I've said I've read the instructions with the Caswell kit and some of it is just plain wrong. That mostly has to do with the process for rusty steel tanks. You can't stop rust by covering it with epoxy, and you can't use phosphoric acid under epoxy. The product seems like the stuff to use, but I don't trust the instructions.
Title: Re: Anyone pre-emptively coated their tanks with Caswell's?
Post by: ducatiz on October 28, 2010, 12:40:31 PM
Quote from: duccarlos on October 28, 2010, 11:03:41 AM
From what I understand it's a 2 hour job.

2 hour job if you've prepped the tank already or have a new tank off the bike.

Drying the tank could tank a while.  Gasoline is pretty clingy.  I have old tanks that still stink of gas after sitting on my shelf for 10 years.  (the leaded gas smelled really nice)

It's more than a 2 hour job, I'm just sayin'.

If you had gas in the tank, you need to flush it out with soap and water and then dry dry dry.
Title: Re: Anyone pre-emptively coated their tanks with Caswell's?
Post by: duccarlos on October 28, 2010, 01:01:50 PM
I presumed the effort of applying is 2 hours. Prep obviously depends on your circumstance.
Title: Re: Anyone pre-emptively coated their tanks with Caswell's?
Post by: sbrguy on October 28, 2010, 03:32:46 PM
damn sounds complicated and again good job to pay someone else to do right.  sounds like nate might be getting a lot more work on tank repairs whenever they are sent for repainting.
Title: Re: Anyone pre-emptively coated their tanks with Caswell's?
Post by: duccarlos on October 28, 2010, 04:42:13 PM
Are the later model Monsters seeing the issue? That's the question on the 1100 thread.
Title: Re: Anyone pre-emptively coated their tanks with Caswell's?
Post by: ducatiz on October 28, 2010, 05:17:21 PM
Yes.  I have two reports of streetfighters with the problem too.
Title: Re: Anyone pre-emptively coated their tanks with Caswell's?
Post by: ducpainter on October 28, 2010, 05:28:48 PM
Weren't there threads in general about a leaker (not sure about the model) and skins no longer fitting on a 696?
Title: Re: Anyone pre-emptively coated their tanks with Caswell's?
Post by: duccarlos on October 28, 2010, 05:44:10 PM
That's what I thought I had remembered, but my job has drained me to the point that I can barely remember 5 minutes ago.
Title: Re: Anyone pre-emptively coated their tanks with Caswell's?
Post by: Howie on October 28, 2010, 07:32:40 PM
Quote from: humorless dp on October 28, 2010, 05:28:48 PM
Weren't there threads in general about a leaker (not sure about the model) and skins no longer fitting on a 696?

There is currently 696 leaker on the board and might have been a 696 with a skin problem, that makes two complaints since 2008.