Ducati Monster Forum

So originally, I had my heart set on a set of Paul Smart wheels...got a buddy who is planning on parting with his in the next couple months, so it worked out. I planned on powder coating them-as nothing can be left to stock, right? I figure with the cost of the wheels, the modding for fitment on my 750, dis-assembly, powder coating and re assembly, I 'll be out $1000-1200.00 or so...

For similar money, could I (or would I be better suited to) get something lighter, already to mount and custom?

I have seen some of the Alpina stuff out there and I must say, its damn sexy, but whats up with Pak? Their site is down and it seems no one else offers them...Would the Alpinas be in my price range? Are there other quality manufacturers out there?

Thanks for the input Lads!

If your M750 is 1997-1999, then you'll have much more custom spacers to have manufactured as the front axle is 20mm and the rear is 17mm.

If your M750 is 2000-2002, then at least you'll have a front axle that's the proper diameter (25mm), but will still have to deal with the 17mm rear.

Calipers:  Your stock calipers won't clear the spokes as they sit.  I've heard of people having a small amount milled off the rear of the caliper and then they fit up, no problem.  (Not that I'd recommend having material machined off a caliper, but to each their own and I haven't measured the existing thickness...)  I've also seen the Discacciati (sp?) calipers offered as a bolt-on but b/c they're billet, they'll blow your budget outright.  

Unless you've got a 2002 M750, then You're going to have to see if the SC wheels can drive your speedometer gear also as the 1997-2001 M750's have a speedo-cable.  2002 drives it's speed signal from the rear via a sensor.

The rear is a 5.5" width so you'll need a wider tire (170/60/17 will work and not be much heavier/bulkier than your existing 160 is).  You'll also need to flip your front sprocket around so that it puts the chain further away from the motor to clear the 5.5" wheel (that is providing the front sprocket is relatively new...).  You'll also need the rear sprocket carrier as it's different (also places the rear sprocket further away from the tire).

Thats a mouth full...in any event doable, however the headache seems to out weight the dollar in this case for sure. So back to the other part of my question...

Custom build to fit applications?

even the lightest spoked wheels are going to substantially outweigh 90% of mag wheels. you're paying a lot of money and putting yourself through a lot of stress to downgrade the performance of your bike.

Its a 99 750... Lets be honest...Did the bike ever perform? Its the lowest compression...lowest BHP model with that displacement. All the go fast internal bits have long since been discontinued or are available at a cost that just doesn't make sense...at this point its about style..nothing else.

this project looks cool...the next one will be fast  ;D

heavy wheels wont affect speed as much as handling.  I understand if you dont care about hot rodding a 750 but this will be a pretty serious decline in the overall riding experience. for the cost/headache you could get some really awsome and lighter mag wheels that would make the bike look cooler and ride better.

If you haven't added spoked wheels to a bike that didnt have them and if you haven't ridden that bike, then perhaps you don't know the overall negative effect on handling and are postulating as to it's effects. 

The SportClassic guys seem to get by just fine with the 'heavier-therefore-death-to-handeling' wheels...  Truth told, a slightly heavier wheel (which SC spoked wheels are especially the AL rimmed ones as fitted to the PS bikes) will actually track through a corner BETTER than a lighter wheel will as there is more mass there, it just requires a bit more effort to swap directions quickly.  In other words: on a street ridden Monster, it'll be noticeable, but not anything detrimental.

I have a Sport Classic 1000. Although I liked the looks -I could not wait to take those heavy spoke wheels off. The faster I went the slower the bike turned. The front end shook when it hit bumps. It took forever to stop. The suspension worked hard to keep the bike under control at any kind of speed.
(http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e344/Motowheelscom/Motowheels%20Sport%20Classic/IMG_0014.jpg)

The first thing I did was to swap over to some marchesini forged wheels
(http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e344/Motowheelscom/Motowheels%20Sport%20Classic/Sc1000ride.jpg)

I later installed some BST wheels on it.
(http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e344/Motowheelscom/Motowheels%20Sport%20Classic/SCRS.jpg)

Each step was an improvement but the biggest improvement was taking off the heavy spoke wheels.
In the end a saved nearly 30lbs of rotational weight by going to BST wheels.

I'm testing some OZ forged aluminum wheels now. Although they are slighlty heavier than the BST, they still turn much better than the OEM wheels. They do carry speed better through the turn like Stewart. The flywheel affect makes the bike a little easier to ride, but it does not change directions as well.

Personally I think going from cast aluminum wheels to spoke wheels is several steps backwards.

Stew, Moto, what about the idea of taking stock spoked wheels and having lighter and stronger spokes with Excel rims laced to the stock hubs?

Aren't the Excel's for tubed tires?

I haven't seen the specific specs on them, but i'm leaning toward the Alpinas which I have to presume are a better wheel than the stock PS or SC wheel. I agree its a step back from the aluminum wheels, but for my project, its about the look.  I PROMISE, next bike is gunna be fast!

depends on the spokes.
Alpina now uses Excel rims with their own hub/tubeless spokes

Guys, you're not listening.  Seems to me that the OP understands the implications and he WANTS SPOKED WHEELS.... not gratuitous advice on how much better your bike is without them  [roll].

Sorry to say I'm no help either, I have no idea where you're gonna find the wheels you're after.  But I hope somebody is able to point you in the direction of your wire wheels  [thumbsup]

did you try emailing Pak?  jc@jcpakbikes.com

You can also find Alpinas at Monster Parts.
http://www.monsterparts.com/pc/ALP1/Wheels/ALP1.html (http://www.monsterparts.com/pc/ALP1/Wheels/ALP1.html)

Thanks for saying what I was thinking Ungeheuer! This isn't my first BBQ...I've had cars where the discussion of unsprung weight and performance were an issue..I.E, 280BHP 1900 lb VW Golf...it was ugly (in that good way) and stupid fast....

THIS...on the other hand is made for pure looks. I'm building a retro cafe bike out of my Monster. I chose a 99 750 as the carbs fit the style and feeling of the cafe seen...but its still just a heavy 57 BHP bike. IT IS WHAT IT IS!

now then...monsterparts and Alpina...Jeff dropped me a line in regards to my wheel needs. the alipnas as I want them will run me about 2000.00. I don't know if that is REALLY in my budget...Might not make sense as this is a budget build and I've got many other parts being made one off style.

Again, I ask...is there a more cost effective alternative to Alpinas?

I rode a m1000 with the alpina spoked rims.

made my 800 feel like a 1098.

OP, i understand where your coming from. id just hate for you to dish out the $$$ then hate the ride. you can make a serious cafe bike out of the monster without the spokes.

heres my cafe monster (old pic, it now has sport 1000 triples and white pinstriping as a border between the red and black.)
(http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i82/realityfooeldme/securedownload.jpg)

Get someone to run a few spacers on a lathe for you as below.  Calipers w/the 40mm mounts?  I've got nothing.  If you were to swap to the later forks (43mm with the 65mm calipers), you could use some SC calipers on the 320 6-bolt rotors.  That, IMO, would be your cheapest option.

My slow as molasses cafe build. This Monster cafe project is the exact same bike you're discussing BlackKat. Using Paul Smart wheels I scored from a Ducati.ms member.

(http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1099/5123576649_d2065677a6.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/14487357@N08/5123576649/)

What I used:
Front wheel:
Custom spacers --- machinist and mechanic did the measuring
S2R 1K adjustable front forks & front axle --- ditched the non-adjustable forks
2 pot PS front calipers --- just to make sure they cleared the spokes, 4 pots may not clear those spokies
Aftermarket electric speedo, I forget the name. I'll post up the name soon as I remember.   :P

Rear wheel:
Stock swingarm
Stock rear caliper
PS caliper mount
Stealth rear sprocket from CA cycle works --- I don't remember the tooth count, it was whatever Chris suggested.  ;D

I spent close to $1500 for the above parts, including the forks. You could save $$$ by skipping that.

Best of luck.  [beer]

So I guess the answer is no, you aren't going to find anything lighter for $1,000-$1,200.  Alpinas are nice and will save you at least the weight of tube, but are going to be $1,999.  May I ask how much your buddy is charging you for the Paul Smart wheels?  You would probably save a lot if you don't have the wheels disassembled and powder coated. 

It just occured to me that I might be able to add some info to this thread.  My GT came with spoked wheels with steel rims.  I sealed them to get rid of the tubes, worked great.  Then I got a set of wheels off a friend's Sport with alloy rims.  Sealed those also, but it took a couple times to get it right.  I tore down the sport wheels and had the hubs powder coated black. It was a ton of work. You need to remove the bearings and cush drive bushings. Bearings should be replaced, and depending on the method of removing the cush drives they might need to be replaced as well. I was able to size up the appropriate spoke size and length and replaced all the spokes and nipples with stainless steel, then tensioned and trued them. I'm not sure it would be a good idea to simply powder coat the wheels with spokes mounted. The spokes flex and move a bit and you would have cracks/chips at the nipples, etc., plus you wouldn't be able to true the wheels if needed down the road.   Here's a link to my wheel rebuilding thread: http://www.ducati.ms/forums/77-sport-classic/43414-returning-gt-prototype-specs-aka-making-gt-mine.html (http://www.ducati.ms/forums/77-sport-classic/43414-returning-gt-prototype-specs-aka-making-gt-mine.html)
  Somewhere in there I break down costs and weights.  (Disclaimer: The silicon I used in that thread did not seal the aluminum wheels and I had to replace it with a marine grade adhesive sealant.) Every step was an improvement in handling (especially getting rid of the tubes and letting the tires act the way they are designed, plus less rotational weight), but I was fully aware that the spoked wheels are heavier than cast.  I wanted spokes. 

Trav,
my buddy is offing me the PS wheels to my for $550.00 with the tires. I guess he has about 2k miles on them as of now. I know I would save a bunch if I left them alone, but can I leave them stock? HELL NO!  [thumbsup]

Its still a consideration as i just don't know if I can rationalize the 2K in Alpinas....

Dietrich,
I'll have to do some readin on your post tonight when I can give it some attention. I'm sure it'l be loads of help!

wow, take that deal!

+1

Great deal. I'd love to find a deal like that. I'd save them until I found the right project bike. What color were you planning to powder coat the rims?  Black?  If so, it's too bad your friend doesn't have one of those Sport1000 Biposto's with black aluminum rims. 

After looking at Pedro-bot's bike above I'd say save the money and hassle of dissasembling to wheels. The aluminum wheels look great and you can probably run those sport classic tires for a couple of months for free.  It also makes the rationalization of not getting the Alpinas easier because the cost difference is even greater if you don't mess with them.

Raux and Trav,

Its the deal of going rate..not amazing. Over the last few months, I've seen a couple sets on ebay sell for $500-600.00 usd. Those guys on ebay with the buy it now for $400.00+ each have unrealistic expectations of value..As I always say...what the OEM sells them for new is pretty irrelevant if no one wants them! Asking price vs what they are valued at by someone who is really buying aren't the same! hahaha

Keep your eyes open and you'll find a set in that price range for sure!

Thanks for all the advice guys! Still haven't made up my mind, but certain pics to come!