My 2003 M620 has been sitting in the garage at my work for about a year and a half now, unfortunately, while I've been away. I put it away with clean oil and gas with stabil in it. I hoped, perhaps, that after all this time it would still fire right up, but alas, it did not.
I just put a new battery in it today. When I tried to start it, the bike would turn over just fine but would not fire. It turns over normally but turns over at a faster speed if I pull the accelerator while pressing the start button if that means anything.
I'm wondering if there are any ideas on how I can quickly prime the bike to get it started and take it home. Obviously, I have to be careful, given how long it's been sitting, but rather than tow it, I'd like to be able to get it home on my own the mile or so it takes to get to my house.
I'm guessing the gas has gone bad despite the stabil in it. There doesn't appear to be very much gas in the tank (I thought I filled it up, but perhaps not). Any ideas to get her going would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!
I would try pulling the spark plug and seeing if you get a spark. If your not getting spark then you'll need to troubleshoot the ignition system. You can also try spraying some starter fluid directly into the air intake. If it fires up then you have spark.
If you are getting spark then you prob have a fuel delivery issue. Once it sits that long with this ethanol fuel, your almost surely looking at a good carb clean/rebuild. A thorough tank cleaning will be a good idea as well. You could try running some fresh gas with a quality carb cleaner through it and see what happens.
Quote from: speedknot on October 25, 2010, 10:10:07 PM
I would try pulling the spark plug and seeing if you get a spark. If your not getting spark then you'll need to troubleshoot the ignition system. You can also try spraying some starter fluid directly into the air intake. If it fires up then you have spark.
If you are getting spark then you prob have a fuel delivery issue. Once it sits that long with this ethanol fuel, your almost surely looking at a good carb clean/rebuild. A thorough tank cleaning will be a good idea as well. You could try running some fresh gas with a quality carb cleaner through it and see what happens.
Also, after cranking, pull the plugs and see if they are wet, confirming some fuel. Did you squirt some oil in the cylinders before firing her up?
Quote from: speedknot on October 25, 2010, 10:10:07 PM
I would try pulling the spark plug and seeing if you get a spark. If your not getting spark then you'll need to troubleshoot the ignition system. You can also try spraying some starter fluid directly into the air intake. If it fires up then you have spark.
If you are getting spark then you prob have a fuel delivery issue. Once it sits that long with this ethanol fuel, your almost surely looking at a good carb clean/rebuild. A thorough tank cleaning will be a good idea as well. You could try running some fresh gas with a quality carb cleaner through it and see what happens.
03 620's were FI not carbed but +1 on everything else he said
by pull the accelerator do you mean twist the throttle? I know it's probably semantics but could help
most likely have flat spots on tires after that long
if all else fails and it's only a mile...push it home, Trust me it's a ton of fun [thumbsup]
Be careful with the starter fluid. It has an octane rating of a little more than 0. If it does start on the starting fluid then get a few drops of fresh fuel past the throttle bodies. Remove the air filter, get a drop or two in each intake runner, open throttle, close, then crank. Try and do this fast enough so there is still some heat in the cylinders. If you are lucky the engine may be able to run. Expect the bike to run like crap. I like Speeddog's idea better.
Resurrecting this thread with an update. I siphoned out what old fuel I could get out of the tank and put in some new fuel. Oiled the cylinders, sprayed a little starter fluid and tried to fire her up. I got ignition, but it didn't idle. I put a few drops of gas in the runners, opened and closed the throttle, then tried again. Again, it would fire for a second or so, then die.
The plugs seem a little wet, but I can't really tell if it's the oil I put in the cylinders...it looks/smells like gas though.
One thing I noticed is that I could not hear the usual sound of the fuel pump working when I first turned the key. If I remember correctly, when the bike was working properly I could hear the pump...now it seems to be silent. Is there a fuse to check or some way I can detect whether the pump is working properly?
Wondering if anyone has some advice on where I should go from here. Any and all advice welcome!!
Fuse #2 is for the pump. You should hear the pump when you turn the key on.
Thanks, howie. I checked the fuse, and it seems to be fine. Is there a relay I should check, too? What would be the best way to confirm that it's functioning properly? Any ideas on next steps for figuring this out? thanks!
Best to check the fuse with a meter and not just visually.
I'd check the red wire going to the fuel sender for voltage. That is the one that feeds the pump.
Had the fuel pump problem with my 03 620 just a few weeks ago. I did not hear the usual fuel pump "whine" whi I turned the key.
All the electrics checked out fine. I could even get it to idle if I put the tank in the vertical position (I assume providing enough pressure in the lines or the injectors, but no throttle response)
I took the fuel pump out and ran it through an ultrasonic cleaner at my work. I could turn the pump manually with a paperclip once the filter screen was off. i also shook the hell out of it, like a spray paint can until I could feel it rattle.
After all that it worked just fine. Started right up. I have put a few hundred miles on it since then, and it still seems to be fine.
Lesson learned.
Scott
Thanks, Scott. I read your thread on the fuel pump issue with interest. The fuse and other electronics seem to check out.
I guess my next step is to actually pull the fuel pump. Can it be removed without draining the tank on the '03 620ie? From a parts diagram I saw, it appears to be at the base of the tank. Basically, could you provide instructions on how to replace it? I was unsuccessful in finding any instructions on this forum.
I don't have an ultrasonic cleaner and am debating whether to just order a new pump and filter. I suppose there's a possibility there there are larger varnish issues here that a new pump may not fix. Unfortunately, I'm under a time crunch and need to try to get the bike going before I have to move in a couple weeks (at least I'll finally have a real garage come end of June!).
Thanks for your help. Any further advice/opinions welcome.
I used the directions in the shop manual to pull the pump. You can pick up a digital copy from your dealer or from Pro Italia on line. I got mine from a sketchy guy on line selling xerox copies of the original.
I will try to break down the steps for you here though.
Disconnect your tanks from the wiring harness:
Lift your tank. There is a black plug on the bottom of your tank about 5cm long with wires going into your tank from the wiring harness. Just unplug here. This is easier than disconnecting your battery, and should not risk any short as this plug is very well insulated. Put the tank back down.
Pull the Fuel plug:
if you have the original like me there are 4 bolts holding in the fuel plug. 3 on the outside and 1 inside the locked plug housing. Take these out and set aside.
Pull the plug housing:
There are 8 small set screws holding the rim of the housing into the tank. If you have ball head allen keys it makes taking these out much easier. I did not take mine all the way out, just far enough to get the housing out. The housing has hoses connecting it to the fuel delivery system. I just laid mine on my tank. You may want to to put down a protective pad or something if you are concerned about scratching your tank. The housing is just held in by a giant O-ring and takes some even upward pressure to get it out. I always seem to crack my knuckles and a findernail getting this thing out. Is that to girly? Just stick you hand in the filer tunnel and pull.
Drain the fuel:
I am pretty sure that you have to drain the fuel. To avoid a spill and to avoid having your hands in a tank full of fuel for longer than you probably want.
Take out the fuel filter:
you will see the fuel filter now just inside the tank on the left side. It sits is a little metal clamp housing. Just pull it straight up to get it out. Remember this motion because you will need to repeat similar motion to get the pump out. Disconnect the filter. You will want to get a new one any way after your fuel has been sitting for that long. It is noce to have the filter out of the way for the next step any way.
Pull the filter:
This is where I got the twin bruises on my fore arms. Getting the thing out is some times easier than getting it in. If you have smaller hands/arms than I do you may not have any trouble with this. step.
Reach your hand down the back of your tank and right about where your crotch rests when you ride you will find your fuel pump. It is inside of a rubber protector and sitting in a similar clamp to the one that was holding the filter. You need to get your fingers under it and lift it towards the out side of the tank. Once you get is loose you can gently rock it out toward the filler hole. It has a rectangular filter screen attached to it that if you would like to try to retain should not get damaged. I replaced mine. I don't think it was too expensive. I think the filter and the screen were $60 together from my local dealer.
Disconnect your Fuel pump:
Pull the hoses and the screen and unplug the electrics. Don't lose anything in your tank because getting it out can be a pain. now you should be able to see in the end where the screen was some small gear looking teeth. You can take a paperclip and see if you can rotate the impeller. If it does not rotate don't force it, I'm not sure what would happen if you damage one of those teeth. Try shaking it like a can of spray paint and see if it starts to rattle. Then try to turn it again. I had an ultrasonic cleaner, but if that did not work i was going to try to pour a little new gas into the pump and let it "soak" and see if that would help loosen it up.
Try it out:
Plug your tank back in, and plug the pump into the electrics. Turn your key and see if the pump jumps and hums. Mine was a bit hesitant the first time firing back up, but it has gone 500 miles since then, so I think I'm in the clear for now. From what I understand of fuel pumps now it is hard to damage the internal workings on these things, but gumming one up is fairly easy.
If you need to get a new pump CACycleworks has one for $150, or you can get the OEM from Ducati for $220 or so.
Let me know if you need any more info. Sorry about the late reply, and I apologize if I missed anything. All in all its not that hard, just uncomfortable getting that far back in the tank.
Ride Safe
Scott
I forgot...
Putting the thing back in:
Probably the most annoying part for me. Really you just need reverse the procedure. The hard part for me is getting everything properly oriented when it snaps back into the pump mount. Just be patient and don't try to force it. The filter sock is a bit fragile. The only other part of the reassembly that is not real straight forward is getting the outer rubber dust seal around the filer cap housing. I push the housing in most of the way and then work in the dust seal. Sometimes I have to use a pointy object, run around between the housing and the gasket, to get any kinks out.
again let me know if you have any questions.
Scott.