Ducati Monster Forum

Moto Board => Tech => Topic started by: gothamS2R on October 28, 2010, 09:18:36 AM

Title: Stuck in 2nd Gear - $1600 quote from the dealer - is it honest?
Post by: gothamS2R on October 28, 2010, 09:18:36 AM
Hi all,

My '06 S2R 800 recently got jammed in second gear. I read some posts on hear and it seemed like it might be a rather simple fix. I don't have the tools or the know-how to fix it on my own so I sent it off to the local dealership.

They claim to have 7.5 hrs into diagnostics which has left them with the transmission shaft halfway out and stuck. They're saying there aren't many parts for the fix but the additional 12 hrs of labor is going to push the service ticket to almost $1600.

Does anyone have experience with a similar problem or know enough about Ducati transmissions to know if this is a fair quote?? I'd like to get a second opinion but I'd rather not pay a service to haul it around.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
Title: Re: Stuck in 2nd Gear - $1600 quote from the dealer - is it honest?
Post by: Raux on October 28, 2010, 09:22:30 AM
uh.. if the transmission shaft wasn't halfway out when you brought it to them.... BS
and 7.5 hrs to figure out a stuck tranny... you could have posted on here for free...

get a second SHOP opinion.
Title: Re: Stuck in 2nd Gear - $1600 quote from the dealer - is it honest?
Post by: ducpainter on October 28, 2010, 10:50:53 AM
If a trans shaft is halfway out it sounds like the tech started splitting the cases.

Did you authorize any actual work?

It's about an hour job to pull the left cover to see if there was a problem there.

If they did that and didn't find a problem they should have notified you the motor had to come out and apart and asked you to authorize the labor.

If they don't have the motor halfway apart in that amount of time they simply don't know what they're doing.

It will be interesting to hear what they actually have done.

Good luck.

Title: Re: Stuck in 2nd Gear - $1600 quote from the dealer - is it honest?
Post by: Veloce-Fino on October 28, 2010, 11:14:57 AM
My trans had the same issue a few weeks ago. It may or may not be the same issue I had. If it is:

labor was $45 and parts was $50.

Total cost was $95...

Like the others have stated, unless the trans shaft was sticking out when you brought it in THEY screwed something up.

Dealer should have called you when they were unable to figure out the issue. If you did not authorize the work they have completed you don't owe them a dime.

Go to a different dealer, don't get taken.
Title: Re: Stuck in 2nd Gear - $1600 quote from the dealer - is it honest?
Post by: gothamS2R on October 28, 2010, 11:56:21 AM
Well they were respectful to the process of authorization. My hesitance to go further with them stems from the 7 hrs of diagnosis that they, oh so kindly, aren't charging me for and the apparent 12-15 hrs of work needed for the repair. All the while sounding very unsure of what the problem was telling me their diagnosis led nowhere.

They tried to heat up and slide the shaft out but it got jammed now they will have to split the casing in order to free it up. I'm not sure if the bike is past the point of return and needs that kind of labor.
Title: Re: Stuck in 2nd Gear - $1600 quote from the dealer - is it honest?
Post by: ducpainter on October 28, 2010, 11:58:02 AM
Which shaft?
Title: Re: Stuck in 2nd Gear - $1600 quote from the dealer - is it honest?
Post by: Raux on October 28, 2010, 12:05:14 PM
Quote from: gothamS2R on October 28, 2010, 11:56:21 AM
They tried to heat up and slide the shaft out but it got jammed now they will have to split the casing in order to free it up.

WTF?
Title: Re: Stuck in 2nd Gear - $1600 quote from the dealer - is it honest?
Post by: gothamS2R on October 28, 2010, 12:10:02 PM
Trans shaft I assume...
Title: Re: Stuck in 2nd Gear - $1600 quote from the dealer - is it honest?
Post by: Speeddog on October 28, 2010, 12:11:55 PM
Transmission shafts will not come out without splitting the cases.
Title: Re: Stuck in 2nd Gear - $1600 quote from the dealer - is it honest?
Post by: ducpainter on October 28, 2010, 12:16:50 PM
Quote from: Speeddog on October 28, 2010, 12:11:55 PM
Transmission shafts will not come out without splitting the cases.
Exactly.^^^^^

The only 'shaft' that is removable without splitting the cases is the shift shaft, and that just has a short section that sits in a boss in the case.
Title: Re: Stuck in 2nd Gear - $1600 quote from the dealer - is it honest?
Post by: gothamS2R on October 28, 2010, 12:18:23 PM
Interesting - so there was never a shot at pulling the shaft without splitting the cases?

That's exactly how they got me to authorize them to pull the cover off, but at that point I was led to believe the shaft could come out easy and it wouldn't be a big job.
Title: Re: Stuck in 2nd Gear - $1600 quote from the dealer - is it honest?
Post by: ducpainter on October 28, 2010, 12:21:26 PM
Ducatis have crankcase halves with a cover on either side...pretty typical of all bikes.

The shift shaft is under the left cover and is easily removed once you pull the rotor for the alternator.

It would be nice to actually know which shaft they said needed to come out.
Title: Re: Stuck in 2nd Gear - $1600 quote from the dealer - is it honest?
Post by: Veloce-Fino on October 28, 2010, 02:00:58 PM
This whole things smells ... fishy. If they are referring to the shift shaft the time it took them to fool around with it is WAY too long. If they are talking about the input shaft... then it really makes no sense.
Title: Re: Stuck in 2nd Gear - $1600 quote from the dealer - is it honest?
Post by: sbrguy on October 28, 2010, 03:28:44 PM
ok what dealer is this so that i know not to bring my bike there.
Title: Re: Stuck in 2nd Gear - $1600 quote from the dealer - is it honest?
Post by: BK_856er on October 28, 2010, 08:55:38 PM
Quote from: Veloce-Fino on October 28, 2010, 11:14:57 AM
My trans had the same issue a few weeks ago. It may or may not be the same issue I had. If it is:

labor was $45 and parts was $50.


There's a Ducati part that is only $50???  What was it?

I had a temporary stuck in gear situation a while back that resolved itself, but I still plan to pull both side covers to investigate further.

BK
Title: Re: Stuck in 2nd Gear - $1600 quote from the dealer - is it honest?
Post by: evoasis on October 28, 2010, 09:12:29 PM
New 800cc engines on ebay go for less than the amount you're gettin' into this broken engine~!
Title: Re: Stuck in 2nd Gear - $1600 quote from the dealer - is it honest?
Post by: Veloce-Fino on October 29, 2010, 06:46:12 AM
Quote from: BK_856er on October 28, 2010, 08:55:38 PM
There's a Ducati part that is only $50???  What was it?

I had a temporary stuck in gear situation a while back that resolved itself, but I still plan to pull both side covers to investigate further.

BK

Haha, it was warranty work so the amounts were a lot lower than it I was paying out of pocket.

Something called "kit motore fissaggio arpione C" $44.97. I was amazed when I saw the cost as well...


I'm willing to bet your stuck in gear problem will return at the least opportune time.
Title: Re: Stuck in 2nd Gear - $1600 quote from the dealer - is it honest?
Post by: ducpainter on October 29, 2010, 10:18:37 AM
Quote from: Veloce-Fino on October 29, 2010, 06:46:12 AM
Haha, it was warranty work so the amounts were a lot lower than it I was paying out of pocket.

Something called "kit motore fissaggio arpione C" $44.97. I was amazed when I saw the cost as well...


I'm willing to bet your stuck in gear problem will return at the least opportune time.
Dealers bill Ducati full retail for warranty parts.
Title: Re: Stuck in 2nd Gear - $1600 quote from the dealer - is it honest?
Post by: The Mad King Pepe' on October 29, 2010, 11:09:11 AM
Quote from: Veloce-Fino on October 29, 2010, 06:46:12 AM
Something called "kit motore fissaggio arpione C" $44.97. I was amazed when I saw the cost as well...
Literally translated that means "harpoon C engine locking kit"  [laugh]
Title: Re: Stuck in 2nd Gear - $1600 quote from the dealer - is it honest?
Post by: BK_856er on October 29, 2010, 09:22:07 PM
Quote from: Pepe' on October 29, 2010, 11:09:11 AM
Literally translated that means "harpoon C engine locking kit"  [laugh]

Which explains why a google search turns up this:

(http://i51.tinypic.com/j8h7vc.jpg)
Title: Re: Stuck in 2nd Gear - $1600 quote from the dealer - is it honest?
Post by: Veloce-Fino on October 30, 2010, 09:15:44 AM
Quote from: BK_856er on October 29, 2010, 09:22:07 PM
Which explains why a google search turns up this:

(http://i51.tinypic.com/j8h7vc.jpg)


Hahahah, this is too funny. I'll be showing that to the dealer next time I'm there. I know they'll get a kick out of it.
Title: Re: Stuck in 2nd Gear - $1600 quote from the dealer - is it honest?
Post by: Porsche Monkey on November 02, 2010, 05:49:35 AM
Back on topic, if this is a transmission shaft why would you heat it up?  Wouldn't you need to heat the gears instead? In my experience you only use heat for assembly not disassembly of transmissions, although my experience is limited to cars. 
Title: Re: Stuck in 2nd Gear - $1600 quote from the dealer - is it honest?
Post by: ducpainter on November 02, 2010, 11:07:38 AM
Quote from: Porsche Monkey on November 02, 2010, 05:49:35 AM
Back on topic, if this is a transmission shaft why would you heat it up?  Wouldn't you need to heat the gears instead? In my experience you only use heat for assembly not disassembly of transmissions, although my experience is limited to cars. 
Maybe they're using the old adage...

'If it's stuck...heat it up.'
Title: Re: Stuck in 2nd Gear - $1600 quote from the dealer - is it honest?
Post by: Porsche Monkey on November 02, 2010, 01:51:13 PM
Yeah but in the car world that sounds backwards. You heat up gears and spacers to slide them on the shaft. If you heat up the shaft everything gets tighter. Then again I've never been in a bike trans.
Title: Re: Stuck in 2nd Gear - $1600 quote from the dealer - is it honest?
Post by: ducpainter on November 02, 2010, 01:56:03 PM
Quote from: Porsche Monkey on November 02, 2010, 01:51:13 PM
Yeah but in the car world that sounds backwards. You heat up gears and spacers to slide them on the shaft. If you heat up the shaft everything gets tighter. Then again I've never been in a bike trans.
I don't think they have either... ;)
Title: Re: Stuck in 2nd Gear - $1600 quote from the dealer - is it honest?
Post by: Porsche Monkey on November 02, 2010, 07:45:55 PM
No time like the present to learn.  [bang]
Title: Re: Stuck in 2nd Gear - $1600 quote from the dealer - is it honest?
Post by: Veloce-Fino on November 02, 2010, 08:20:07 PM
Quote from: Porsche Monkey on November 02, 2010, 07:45:55 PM
No time like the present to learn.  [bang]

Especially on Gothams2r's dime.
Title: Re: Stuck in 2nd Gear - $1600 quote from the dealer - is it honest?
Post by: Duck-Stew on November 03, 2010, 10:30:34 PM
Neither of the transmission shafts can be removed (or even budged) without splitting the damned cases.  Whomever is telling you the info over the phone doesn't know anything.

For the record, the only shafts that can come out of a Ducati engine without splitting the cases are the aforementioned shifter shaft, and the camshafts...   [roll]

WTF were they heating up?!?  And, more importantly, WHY?!?!?

A 3 minute casual glance at a Ducati engine will reveal the fact that the cases are split vertically...   (BTW, Japanese motors predominately split the cases horizontally so you can assemble them faster...)