Currently have an 80 Gb drive.
Partitioned:
C - 9 Gb
D - 32 Gb
E - 20 Gb
F - 20 Gb
The E drive is nearly full, would like to 'move' it to a yet-to-be-added drive.
Recommendations?
Maxtor external drive!
How did you get 81 GB out of an 80gb drive? usually you lose a Gb or 2 after formatting?
After you add the drive go into administrative tools/disk managament.
Create the new 20Gb partition and transfer the data. Unless things have changed recently, it's not possible to "move" an entire partition, just the contents.
Also, is this your boot drive containing your OS? having such small partitions that are no doubt mostly full leaves your OS very little room to "work" more free space on the partition containing the OS would probably increase speed.
First question - Do you have programs installed on partition E?
Sorry, rounding error on the various partitions makes 'em add up to more than 80. :P
Yes, E contains my main OS, which is indeed very unhappy about working in such cramped quarters.
I've moved as much stuff as I can out of it....but I've tired of that game.
That's the motivation for adding a drive.
Forgot to mention that this is a desktop unit, so an internal drive isn't a problem.
Also it's a dual-boot, usually running Win XP, but also running NT as necessary.
If the E drive contains your OS then you cannot move it. The best options would be to install the new HDD and install the OS fresh on that drive.
Any programs installed onto the E drive will need to be re-installed. Programs installed onto the other partitions will most likely need to be re-installed as well in order to run on the fresh install.
This would be easier as you will still have access to the old E drive to transfer files after the fresh install.
After all is done, wipe the E partition or completely remove it and add to the primary partition on the old drive.
Which partitions contain the OS's?
E and...?
Quote from: Veloce-Fino on November 02, 2010, 10:10:21 AM
If the E drive contains your OS then you cannot move it. The best options would be to install the new HDD and install the OS fresh on that drive.
Any programs installed onto the E drive will need to be re-installed. Programs installed onto the other partitions will most likely need to be re-installed as well in order to run on the fresh install.
This would be easier as you will still have access to the old E drive to transfer files after the fresh install.
After all is done, wipe the E partition or completely remove it and add to the primary partition on the old drive.
That's not entirely true. You could use some imaging software, image that drive partition, move it to a larger partitioned space without any (OS) problems.
For that matter you could take a new drive, partition it now before you make any changes, then lay the images of the old partitions on the new drive space (partitioned already to the increased size that you want) and you'd be all set and have a second 80GB drive to work with as extra space.
Quote from: Monster Dave on November 02, 2010, 10:12:22 AM
That's not entirely true. You could use some imaging software image that drive, move it to a larger partitioned space without any (OS) problems.
True, but if he already has a poorly running, congested OS it would make much more sense to re-install. Imaging the drive and duplicating it on the new HDD would bring all the old problems along for the ride.
Not if you put the OS image on a larger partitioned space. I do that all the time where I work. In fact I just used Macrium and moved a web server doing exactly that because the OS was out of space.
Quote from: Monster Dave on November 02, 2010, 10:15:08 AM
Not if you put the OS image on a larger partitioned space. We do that all the time where I work.
True, BUT! all of the registry errors and artifacts from use will still be there. Executing ANY type of program creates registry entries. After a few months/years of this your PC will slow down. You can use an application like Ccleaner to clean out these entries but if you don't know what you're doing it can cause bigger problems.
A fresh install is ALWAYS faster than an existing, well used, install.
* a web server is not accessed/used the same as a "user" machine. If we were dealing with a website hosting server I would also recommend imaging/duplicating.
Unless he already has the knowledge, re-install would be more simple/effective then imaging.
If the 'imaging' routine is feasible, I'd *really* like to do it that way.
I intended to put the contents of E into a larger partition.
Don't get me wrong - I'm not arguing with you - I'm in favor of what you're saying. I've always divided my OS and my files between a partition so that when I wipe my OS from my system, it doesn't impact my files. Wipe and reinstall the OS is easy, it's just that his setup is sort of curiously complex.
Quote from: Speeddog on November 02, 2010, 10:19:04 AM
If the 'imaging' routine is feasible, I'd *really* like to do it that way.
I intended to put the contents of E into a larger partition.
The easiest software (most user friendly) is called Acronis and you can find it at Best Buy for about $39.99.
We use it here at work and I really am in favor of it. It's got a nice GUI and is really simple to take the image and the reapply it - not to mention that you can take an image of any PC and install it on any other system with any other hardware configuration and it works flawlessly.
Quote from: Monster Dave on November 02, 2010, 10:20:30 AM
Don't get me wrong - I'm not arguing with you - I'm in favor of what you're saying. I've always divided my OS and my files between a partition so that when I wipe my OS from my system, it doesn't impact my files. Wipe and reinstall the OS is easy, it's just that his setup is sort of curiously complex.
I'm not arguing either, more point/counter point ;D
Definitely more complex..
Someone went partition crazy.
Do whatever method pleases you, separating OS from personal files is a step in the right direction no matter how you do it. File Management!!
Quote from: Veloce-Fino on November 02, 2010, 10:23:41 AM
I'm not arguing either, more point/counter point ;D
[thumbsup]
A bit of history on this machine that may be helpful.
Bought in '03 with XP as the OS.
Needed to have the capability to run NT, as I've got design software that only runs on NT.
Handed the PC over to a local geek who partitioned the drive, installed NT, etc.
Everything worked fine.
Several years ago, Norton AV fuxxored things up, had to call out a geek at an eye-watering price.
Everything again fine.
As E is nearly full now, it doesn't run well.
As I understand it:
Imaging my E to a larger partition of a new HD is a functional improvement, but brings along baggage.
----------------------
How can I easily get a functional improvement now with minimum possibility of damage, and have the ability to do an optimum fix later?
Image E to a larger partition on a new HD, then later do a fresh install XP on another partition of the new HD?
The fresh install would have no registry entries for your applications.
None of them would work with that install.
1.) Determine if you can use a SATA hard drive or IDE. If you're not sure, open up your computer case, take a picture, and put it in this thread. I would imagine you could use SATA
2.) External adapter, plug the new drive into this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812232002&cm_re=sata_usb_adapter-_-12-232-002-_-Product (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812232002&cm_re=sata_usb_adapter-_-12-232-002-_-Product)
3.)
- Acronis True Image - http://www.acronis.com/homecomputing/products/trueimage/index.html (http://www.acronis.com/homecomputing/products/trueimage/index.html)
OR ...
- DriveImage XML (Free, what I use, works great.) http://www.runtime.org/driveimage-xml.htm (http://www.runtime.org/driveimage-xml.htm)
Either of those pieces of software will completely clone your HD so you don't need to reinstall, reconfigure, or copy anything.
4.) Replace old hard drive
5.) Possibly change the drive letter through your windows XP / vista recovery CD
6.) Enjoy [thumbsup]
Cheers,
Adam
PS: Throw Norton in the garbage and install Microsoft Security Essentials (It's free and great.) Also do a google search for "CCleaner"
I will never knowingly buy another Norton product. F them. >:(
My existing HD is a WD800BB, 80Gb EIDE.
http://www.wdc.com/en/library/eide/2879-001021.pdf (http://www.wdc.com/en/library/eide/2879-001021.pdf)
Largest internal IDE drive I found on a quick search is 500Gb.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136111 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136111)
Would an external SATA drive going through the USB yield the high data transfer rate advantage vs. the IDE?
Seeing as the PC in question is early '03 vintage, how do I determine what USB I have?
When am I going to see the advantage of the higher data transfer rate?
'cause there's 1.5Tb external available for ~same price as that 500Gb internal IDE....
http://www.frys.com/product/6305611?site=sa:Hard%20Drive%20&%20Memory%20Pod:Pod1 (http://www.frys.com/product/6305611?site=sa:Hard%20Drive%20&%20Memory%20Pod:Pod1)
chances are if you have an IDE drive as oem you don't have SATA capability. You can buy sata/ide controllers to fix that.
If you go to computer management you can google the usb controller and get the specs.
Quote from: Speeddog on November 02, 2010, 01:57:43 PM
I will never knowingly buy another Norton product. F them. >:(
My existing HD is a WD800BB, 80Gb EIDE.
http://www.wdc.com/en/library/eide/2879-001021.pdf (http://www.wdc.com/en/library/eide/2879-001021.pdf)
Largest internal IDE drive I found on a quick search is 500Gb.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136111 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136111)
Would an external SATA drive going through the USB yield the high data transfer rate advantage vs. the IDE?
Seeing as the PC in question is early '03 vintage, how do I determine what USB I have?
When am I going to see the advantage of the higher data transfer rate?
'cause there's 1.5Tb external available for ~same price as that 500Gb internal IDE....
http://www.frys.com/product/6305611?site=sa:Hard%20Drive%20&%20Memory%20Pod:Pod1 (http://www.frys.com/product/6305611?site=sa:Hard%20Drive%20&%20Memory%20Pod:Pod1)
I wouldn't worry about the transfer rate in your case, just rock an IDE drive. There are many other "bottlenecks" on that age of a system (memory, single core processor, etc.) that would make it almost irrelevant. [thumbsup]
Cheers,
Adam
Quote from: DrDesmosedici on November 02, 2010, 02:24:11 PM
I wouldn't worry about the transfer rate in your case, just rock an IDE drive. There are many other "bottlenecks" on that age of a system (memory, single core processor, etc.) that would make it almost irrelevant. [thumbsup]
Cheers,
Adam
You're right of course...
but if he buys a sata drive he can use it with his
next computer.
Quote from: humorless dp on November 02, 2010, 02:26:41 PM
You're right of course...
but if he buys a sata drive he can use it with his next computer.
You're right of course...
but he's not trying to build a new PC, just get his
current one up to par.
[cheeky]
Quote from: Speeddog on November 02, 2010, 01:57:43 PM
I will never knowingly buy another Norton product. F them. >:(
My existing HD is a WD800BB, 80Gb EIDE.
http://www.wdc.com/en/library/eide/2879-001021.pdf (http://www.wdc.com/en/library/eide/2879-001021.pdf)
Largest internal IDE drive I found on a quick search is 500Gb.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136111 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136111)
Would an external SATA drive going through the USB yield the high data transfer rate advantage vs. the IDE?
Seeing as the PC in question is early '03 vintage, how do I determine what USB I have?
When am I going to see the advantage of the higher data transfer rate?
'cause there's 1.5Tb external available for ~same price as that 500Gb internal IDE....
http://www.frys.com/product/6305611?site=sa:Hard%20Drive%20&%20Memory%20Pod:Pod1 (http://www.frys.com/product/6305611?site=sa:Hard%20Drive%20&%20Memory%20Pod:Pod1)
The spiffy thing about USB is that even if your computer doesn't have USB 2.0, you can still use it and only get the USB 1.0 speeds. Then when you eventually upgrade you're system and have USB 2.0 capability, you'll get the faster speeds.
The problem is that I don't think you want to try and run your OS on an external harddrive through a (potentially) USB 1.0 cable. That would be a nasty bottleneck if you got it to work. But if you go the external route, you could move all of your data files onto the external and leave only program files on the internal HD to try and free up some space doing that.
I gotta say, I'm impressed that your HD hasn't konked out on you yet. My HDs rarely make it to 7 years but then again I've been buying crappy Seagate stuff that hasn't even been making it through the 5 yr warranty so I have to send them in. >:( I think your best and safest bet is to go with a larger IDE drive. You can still transfer it over to a new PC when you upgrade. It just won't be as fast as an SATA. But ya know, depending on what you're running, you might not even notice.
So could I have both a SATA and IDE drive running at the same time, or does that release the magic smoke?
Computer Management says:
One of "Intel(r) 82801DB/DBM USB Enhanced Host Controller - NNLL"
Three of "Intel(r) 82801DB/DBM USB Universal Host Controller - NNLL"
Four of "USB Root Hub"
- NNLL being a number-letter
I'm assuming that means I have USB 2.0 on at least one port?
If I have to spend money, I would like for the HD to be usable on my next PC.
Assuming they don't change to some new spec before then. :-[
External does have more convenience, but higher chance of lost/stolen/FOD.
If I can swap stuff around enough so that I can clear off my OEM HD and re-partition to maybe 50Gb for XP and 30Gb for NT.
That would be +150% and almost +300% for their partitions.
Then have my data on the added HD.
Quote from: Speeddog on November 02, 2010, 02:48:12 PM
So could I have both a SATA and IDE drive running at the same time, or does that release the magic smoke?
IDE and SATA drives can both be on the same system as long as you have enough of the correct controllers for them or if they're hooked up via USB like as an external. IDE HDs use the same controllers as CD, DVD, 3.5" drives. Sata use their own controllers.
Computer Management says:
One of "Intel(r) 82801DB/DBM USB Enhanced Host Controller - NNLL"
Three of "Intel(r) 82801DB/DBM USB Universal Host Controller - NNLL"
Four of "USB Root Hub"
- NNLL being a number-letter
I'm assuming that means I have USB 2.0 on at least one port?
Dunno about this.
If I have to spend money, I would like for the HD to be usable on my next PC.
Assuming they don't change to some new spec before then. :-[
Even an IDE drive will be usable on your next system. It just won't be as fast as an SATA. Worst case, if you get an IDE and for some random reason your new PC doesn't have enough IDE controllers for you to hook it up, you can get an enclosure for it and turn it into an external drive.
External does have more convenience, but higher chance of lost/stolen/FOD.
If I can swap stuff around enough so that I can clear off my OEM HD and re-partition to maybe 50Gb for XP and 30Gb for NT.
That would be +150% and almost +300% for their partitions.
Then have my data on the added HD.
This is something only you know because we can't see your files. I highly doubt that the entire 20GB of E is the OS and I'm betting most of it is data but how much of it is actually data is some you'd have to look up. You don't want to be moving program files around to free up space but any of your pictures, music, and documents can be moved. I would say that this is probably the least painful method to go right now.
Out of curiosity, do you know which files are on which partition? I'm assuming E is your Windows XP. What's on C that it only "needs" to be 9GB? I'm guess D is Windows NT and F is data. C is data too maybe?
Quote from: Monster Dave on November 02, 2010, 02:36:19 PM
You're right of course...
but he's not trying to build a new PC, just get his current one up to par.
[cheeky]
I realize that...
but why throw money out the window?
If he replaces the box chances are it will be SATA compatible and if he buys that big external drive it will come in handy.
Quote from: Speeddog on November 02, 2010, 02:48:12 PM
So could I have both a SATA and IDE drive running at the same time, or does that release the magic smoke?
<snip>
If I can swap stuff around enough so that I can clear off my OEM HD and re-partition to maybe 50Gb for XP and 30Gb for NT.
That would be +150% and almost +300% for their partitions.
Then have my data on the added HD.
You bet you can.
You will have trouble re-partitioning drives that already contain info...assuming you want to save it. ;)
Quote from: humorless dp on November 02, 2010, 03:13:29 PM
I realize that...
but why throw money out the window?
If he replaces the box chances are it will be SATA compatible and if he buys that big external drive it will come in handy.You bet you can.
True. It all depends on budget. But I agree with what was said about putting an OS on an external drive (not a good idea).
Documents and Settings folder is 2.6Gb, Program Files folder is 3.2Gb, WINDOWS folder is 5.5Gb.
Currently using 17 Gb of 20Gb in the partition that's being a PITA.
---------------
So I could image all my stuff onto the new external drive.
Wipe my old 80Mb drive clean, so temporarily I would have my OS externally.
Partition my old drive 50 XP / 30 NT.
Image my original XP and NT back on my old hard drive.
And carry on, with improved function because my OS isn't fighting in a phone booth.
Yes?
Quote from: Speeddog on November 02, 2010, 03:26:01 PM
Documents and Settings folder is 2.6Gb, Program Files folder is 3.2Gb, WINDOWS folder is 5.5Gb.
Currently using 17 Gb of 20Gb in the partition that's being a PITA.
---------------
So I could image all my stuff onto the new external drive.
Wipe my old 80Mb drive clean, so temporarily I would have my OS externally.
Partition my old drive 50 XP / 30 NT.
Image my original XP and NT back on my old hard drive.
And carry on, with improved function because my OS isn't fighting in a phone booth.
Yes?
Make note of all the drive letters. ;)
What could go wrong? ;D
Quote from: humorless dp on November 02, 2010, 03:28:39 PM
Make note of all the drive letters. ;)
What could go wrong? ;D
Drive letters will be noted. [laugh]
Yeah, what could go wrong?
Quote from: humorless dp on November 02, 2010, 03:28:39 PM
Make note of all the drive letters. ;)
What could go wrong? ;D
Bahaha!
When DP says to make note of all drive letters, after repartition the old drive, you want to set their letters back to whatever they were. So even though you only have 2 partitions, you want XP on partition E.
Yeah, last step would be to move all your docs that you imaging back onto the old drive onto the external so that your OS has even more space to play. You'll also want to reassign the default location of your My Documents to the external drive. You'll probably want to sift through the Program Files folder to find the actual data files like models that you were working on if you want optimize that space too. It'll make it more convenient when you upgrade later too so that you don't have to sift through them later. The actual Program Files folder can't be moved to the external though. It would probably break most of the programs if you did.
Quote from: Veloce-Fino on November 02, 2010, 10:17:38 AM
True, BUT! all of the registry errors and artifacts from use will still be there. Executing ANY type of program creates registry entries. After a few months/years of this your PC will slow down. You can use an application like Ccleaner to clean out these entries but if you don't know what you're doing it can cause bigger problems.
A fresh install is ALWAYS faster than an existing, well used, install.
* a web server is not accessed/used the same as a "user" machine. If we were dealing with a website hosting server I would also recommend imaging/duplicating.
Unless he already has the knowledge, re-install would be more simple/effective then imaging.
Princess Bride - Battle of Wits (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EkBuKQEkio#normal)
couldn't resist ;D
This thread has too many computer experts. ;D
Quote from: herm on November 02, 2010, 04:58:17 PM
[
couldn't resist ;D
Hahahah.. perfect use.
Quote from: humorless dp on November 02, 2010, 03:28:39 PM
Make note of all the drive letters. ;)
What could go wrong? ;D
Quote from: Speeddog on November 02, 2010, 03:33:15 PM
Drive letters will be noted. [laugh]
Yeah, what could go wrong?
nt doesn't use drive letters for locating the os, it uses an ARC path (http://support.microsoft.com/kb/155222) noting where the system is installed. if you change your partition structure, you're going to have to manually change the ARC path in the boot.ini.
[boot loader]
timeout=30
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(3)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(3)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition"/fastdetect /NoExecute=OptIn
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(3)\WINNT="Windows NT Workstation Version 4.00"
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(3)\WINNT="Windows NT Workstation Version 4.00 [VGA mode]" /basevideo /sos
This is how it is now.
Any better now?