I was reading something on the beeb this am when I noticed something on the page about Hyundai Luxury Cars........how can be I thought to myself. You all remember hyundai's right. I was blown away by what I saw.
Hyundai Equus. I think the spelling is right, BTW I live under a rock and had no clue they were making a $64,000 car with 385 hp from the factory. I was very surprised.....
YEAH...Hyundai has made some stuff that does not export...I think I recall the Equus being a feature on Top Gear and James May drove a couple of Sumo Wrestler's to a meet in it and they looked right comfortable and had space...
the Genesis sedan is on point in some ways in direct comparo with the Benz E class and BMW 5 Series sedans...and the fact that the government still helps subsidize their cars for to help keep them cheap and affordable after export benefits them greatly for market penetration....they have come a long long long way since the 1986 Hyundai Excel that hit our shores in the good ole US of A.
they make great forklifts though!
60 minutes did a segment on Hyundai early this year and it showed how they progressed. Chipping away at market share year after year. Their products have come along way and honestly if I was in the market for a car I would not hesitate to check them out.
They had the balls to make a RWD coupe and gave it the option of a turbo four or a potentish V6. They're ok in my book.
Hyundai is certainly making some attractive and potent rides these days.
The Equus goes on sale here this fall.
The Genesis Sedan is mighty nice, with a 3.8L V6 or a 4.6L V8. Both are plenty powerful. The car is very well built and pretty hard to pick apart, besides a few minor fit and finish issues.
I just watched an article on Motor Trend on tv the other day about this car.
They said it was pretty good, but not quite there yet.
Here's some more info from them about the car:
http://www.motortrend.com/auto_shows/new_york/2010/1004_2011_hyundai_equus/specs.html (http://www.motortrend.com/auto_shows/new_york/2010/1004_2011_hyundai_equus/specs.html)
This one is a first test drive in Korea.
They even say to wait for the 2012 version to come out, because it will have a 5.0 V-8 engine with direct injection, pushing out 429 horsepower and 376 pound-feet of torque.
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/1007_2011_hyundai_equus_drive/2012.html (http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/1007_2011_hyundai_equus_drive/2012.html)
Seems they are only expecting 3k sales per year in the US for this car.
They might just get those sales, if they reach the right people.
I like how they are pushing the technology aspect of cars, by going direct injection on more engine models, available in more cars than most of the competition. Some even come with turbos, like the Sonata. Imagine, a family car that give great performance, along with respectable fuel mileage. And the commercial with the smiling guy is kinda cool. Doesn't everyone want to feel like that when they're behind the wheel of their car?
They have come a long way, and are chipping away at the competition.
BC.
the other issue they may succumb to though is the stigma of it being a $60K Hyundai...VW had the same problem with the Phaeton...great car...but people looked at it as a $70K VW, not an $85K Audi in cheaper VW clothing....your more generally affluent car buyer is going to go for marquis nameplates when spending that kind of money....generally speaking....they are going to look at Cadillac and Lexus and Infinity and Acura and people still think of Hyundai as competition for Toyota, Honda, Nissan and so forth...just not in the same class for the cash...not saying the car isn't going to compete with them...just going to take a lot more for to reach and overcome THAT kind of buyer's objections...
Here is a review of the Sonata from The Truth About Cars
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2010/10/review-2011-hyundai-sonata-se/ (http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2010/10/review-2011-hyundai-sonata-se/)
"Somehow, the Hyundai Sonata raised the bar for this class..."
I was following one of these around the parking garage the other day and was surprised to discover that it was a Sonata and not the Genesis when I got close enough to see a badge. It is a pretty sharp-looking car. For a four-door sedan, anyways.
Both the Genesis and Equus look like excellent first tries, so I think if Hyundai has made a mistake in trying to break into the luxury market, they have not taken on an alias, like Toyota:Lexus or Nissan:Infiniti. Neither of these brands had a bad reputation to overcome (cough, 1986 Excel) and they still did it.
Quote from: zooom on November 18, 2010, 08:21:33 AM
the other issue they may succumb to though is the stigma of it being a $60K Hyundai...VW had the same problem with the Phaeton...great car...but people looked at it as a $70K VW, not an $85K Audi in cheaper VW clothing....your more generally affluent car buyer is going to go for marquis nameplates when spending that kind of money....generally speaking....they are going to look at Cadillac and Lexus and Infinity and Acura and people still think of Hyundai as competition for Toyota, Honda, Nissan and so forth...just not in the same class for the cash...not saying the car isn't going to compete with them...just going to take a lot more for to reach and overcome THAT kind of buyer's objections...
I think you are spot on. Those three brands Toyota, Nissan, and Honda got around this by creating a new name for their luxury cars. Most people don't think Toyota when they see a Lexus, nor do they think Honda when they see an Acura. Subconsciously we all know it's true, but people will feel better spending the $$$ if that Honda with a tuxedo on is called an Acura.
Drove the Genisis a couple years ago, and was very impressed!
Without a second thought, I would take one before an E Class.
One thing not previously mentioned... Genesis was originally intended to be a separate marque from Hyundai, like Acura, Infinity or Lexus, however due to economy starting to tank right at that time, it was not practical to build a separate dealer network.
Hyundai is today what Toyota and Honda was back in the '80's. I like the direction they have taken, and their products are solid.
10 year warranty is worth considering! I drove the Genesis and enjoyed it.
How awesome would it be to slip one of these Hyundia V8s into something like a Camaro and proceed to piss off everyone at some local car show. [cheeky]
We bought a 2011 Kia Sorento this past March, which is just a rebadged Hyundai Santa Fe.. same engines, same body, except that the Sorento has a 3rd row seat.
We would buy it again in a minute. Wife commutes every day in it and has put 12k miles and it has been ZERO trouble.
The only suck is that Hyundai/Kia makes awesome diesels but won't bring them to the States. The diesel version of the Sorento gets 45mpg.
Quote from: lethe on November 18, 2010, 05:01:22 PM
How awesome would it be to slip one of these Hyundia V8s into something like a Camaro and proceed to piss off everyone at some local car show. [cheeky]
[laugh] [laugh] [laugh] [clap] [laugh]
Evil bastard [laugh]
Quote from: lethe on November 18, 2010, 05:01:22 PM
How awesome would it be to slip one of these Hyundia V8s into something like a Camaro and proceed to piss off everyone at some local car show. [cheeky]
make the beast with two backs putting it in a Camaro...Chevette or a Vega!!!
Not sure why, but the Elantra Touring wagon always catches my eye.
And the Genesis would be on my short list if I were looking for a coupe.
Quote from: muskrat on November 18, 2010, 04:39:48 PM
10 year warranty is worth considering! I drove the Genesis and enjoyed it.
make sure you read all of the fine print on that warranty.
Quote from: zooom on November 19, 2010, 04:25:51 AM
make the beast with two backs putting it in a Camaro...Chevette or a Vega!!!
While I've always wanted to make a silly Chevette, with the intention of pissing people off a Camaro is a better choice. However a Corvette would probably top that.
Quote from: lethe on November 19, 2010, 04:11:21 PM
While I've always wanted to make a silly Chevette, with the intention of pissing people off a Camaro is a better choice. However a Corvette would probably top that.
A malaise era 'vette with a big high revving V8 would be most cool
Quote from: superjohn on November 20, 2010, 05:28:51 AM
A malaise era 'vette with a big high revving V8 would be most cool
with Hyundai emblems displayed in full view
We test drove a 2011 sonata a couple months ago...ended up with another VW instead. Just sayin...
The car was fine, but for the same money we got into a nicely equiped Jetta. We were driving around in the Sonata and my wife piped up from the back seat with "this interior looks like it was put together by 1st graders." (thats the teacher coming out, i guess [laugh])
The sales guys perma-smile instantly faded. The car is fine...drove okay, but felt a little down on power compared to my golf. I'm sure thats because the car is so much heavier. The killer for it was the fit and finish on the inside. Maybe it isn't far to compare it to a german car, but we walked out the door with a 1010 jetta for about $1000 less, so I'm going to compare them.
Quote from: Le Pirate on November 20, 2010, 06:25:24 AM
snip> a 1010 jetta <snip
cool, that's one of the really old ones [thumbsup] [cheeky]
My girlfriend and I test drove the Sonata GLS yesterday.
We were both very impressed with the car as a whole.
The interior layout was well thought out, and the materials looked nice, and felt nice.
The engine had good power, and the 6 speed automatic transmission shifted well in both full auto and manual mode.
The engine also provided good torque taking off from a stop, and was pretty quiet through the entire rev range.
Now, when I compare it to my '07 Altima 2.5S with the 6 speed manual that I've owned for just under 4 years, and 50k miles:
Interior room is directly comparable. Same amount of head room in the rear seats, which means that my hair it touching the roof, and I'm 6'1".
Front seats are actually nicer feeling than my Altima.
The dash layout is different than the Altima, but isn't missing anything. I think the chrome around the gauges could reflect the sun into your eyes if the sun were at just the right angle behind your car. Potential Ick.
The exterior of the car looked nice with one exception:
The hood of the car looks like it is popped with a gap line all the way around the sides of the car.
We actually saw a car on the highway, noticed the gap, and both thought that the lady driving her new car didn't know the hood was popped. Then we saw the same gap on every car on the lot, and it doesn't look right to us.
Engine bay is nice and uncluttered.
Working on the car shouldn't be an issue for changing plugs, oil, or anything else.
In fact, you can even see the bulk of the washer fluid tank, so you can at a glance tell how much is in there, and if you might need to fill it sometime in the near future. I liked that, as you won't know you're out until the light comes on on the Altima, and then runs out shortly later.
The car is very nice, and comparing it against the Altima, I think it wins in every respect, except for the handling and bump absorption, as the Altima just feels more planted and responsive to driver inputs and the braking feels much more immediate and powerful on the Altima.
The biggest issue I have with the Sonata is that you can only get the manual on the GLS, and not on the SE or the Limited. To add to it, there's a nice alloy wheel package that you can add to the auto version of the GLS, but if you opt for the manual instead, you can't get it. That package is $750, and also includes a 6 way power seat for the driver, auto lights for the headlights, some leatherette trim pieces, fog lights, and some other less important do-dadds. Why can't you get that on the manual?
Of course, if you're buying an Altima today, you can't get a manual at all.
Glad I bought mine back when you could!
You can't really compare the interior off the Hyundai to the Interior of a VW.
It is a lot nicer, though.
Also, isn't the interior of the Jetta smaller than the Sonata and Altima?
Just looked, and it is smaller.
There's less front legroom in the Jetta compared to the Sonata and the Altima.
Less rear headroom. Less rear shoulder and hiproom.
And the gas tank is 14.5 gallons vs 18.5 for the Sonata, and 20 for the Altima.
Plus, I rule out any car I can't get rear disc brakes for in the trim levels I want.
I hate dealing with drum brakes.
But, when you compare the Sonata vs the Altima, Accord, Camry, or the American's, I believe you are going to be looking at a great car, for a reasonable amount of money. There really isn't anything extra in the Sonata that I test drove over the Altima I own, but if my car was destroyed in an accident tomorrow, I would probably buy the Hyundai to replace it, compared with everything else in the comparable market.
If the VW CC was ~24k, I would buy that in a heartbeat.
I just love that car top to bottom.
The only thing I don't care for is the visibility over the shoulders, when compared to the Altima or the Sonata.
BC.
I agree about the drum brakes. I can't believe VW started putting them on the Jetta! so stupid [bang]
They really cheapend that car up alot for the 2011 year model. The one we ended up buy was the 2010, which is independent rear suspension with disc brakes. If we compared the 11 jetta to the 11 sonata...It might of gone differently to be honest.
As far as leg room, etc. I'm not sure I noticed the differences...plus the wife was dead set against the interior materials. I really think the fit and finish on the inside is better in my 07 rabbit, that I payed 10k less than the sonata for.
I'm totally with you on the CC, though. If we were looking to spend 5-7k more...I'd have a CC in the garage right now.
Quote from: Le Pirate on November 22, 2010, 02:15:31 PM
I agree about the drum brakes. I can't believe VW started putting them on the Jetta! so stupid [bang]
They really cheapend that car up alot for the 2011 year model. The one we ended up buy was the 2010, which is independent rear suspension with disc brakes. If we compared the 11 jetta to the 11 sonata...It might of gone differently to be honest.
I don't get the economy of using drum vs disk. they aren't cheaper and they make the car more unsafe. replacing a drum costs the same as replacing a rear disk, pads are cheaper than shoes and i assume the drum cylinder is about the same as a caliper.
someone 'splain the cheaper part?
Quote from: ducatiz on November 23, 2010, 06:28:36 AM
I don't get the economy of using drum vs disk. they aren't cheaper and they make the car more unsafe. replacing a drum costs the same as replacing a rear disk, pads are cheaper than shoes and i assume the drum cylinder is about the same as a caliper.
someone 'splain the cheaper part?
Calipers, particularly when the parking brake is integrated are more expensive. If you look up the cost of a replacement rear caliper for a '95 Jetta from VW it is $187 minus a $50 core charge, which indicates it is remanufactured. A rear caliper for an '09 Jetta is $212 for the left and $205 for the right. A new wheel cylinder for a '95 Jetta is only $68.50. The new base Jetta is now the cheapest car in the US line up. A 2011 base Golf is $17695, the base Jetta is just $15995 for a family size car.
Quote from: howie on November 23, 2010, 12:02:18 PM
Calipers, particularly when the parking brake is integrated are more expensive. If you look up the cost of a replacement rear caliper for a '95 Jetta from VW it is $187 minus a $50 core charge, which indicates it is remanufactured. A rear caliper for an '09 Jetta is $212 for the left and $205 for the right. A new wheel cylinder for a '95 Jetta is only $68.50. The new base Jetta is now the cheapest car in the US line up. A 2011 base Golf is $17695, the base Jetta is just $15995 for a family size car.
I think that's a supplier issue, the integrated brake caliper I have on my '05 Golf is a painfully simplistic device.
Plus, if they wanted, they could switch to a rotor/drum combo like on the Volvos. The rear rotors have a tiny drum inside which is used for the parking brake -- which is on a steel cable and has a pair of shoes on each side.
Simple? Yes, but not compared to an even simpler wheel cylinder. Plus they are probably clearing their shelve of old inventory. Remember the VW Brasilia? The system used on your Volvo with the separate drum requires a more complex casting with an extra machining process on the rotor, a set of brake shoes and hardware. This design does make an excellent parking brake though, which is why you see it on so many large SUVs and pick ups.
If you look at the basic Corollas, Civics, Foci (plural of Focus :P) and some of the Hyundais you will find drum brakes hiding behind the rear wheels.
I gotcha, I meant simple comparing the calipers.
Drum brakes are just shit, I can't believe anyone would use them in the 21st century. I know they do, but jeebus. Plus, it has to affect their safety rating as ABS just won't work with them. (well, not well)
The biggest problem I have with drum brakes is that the self adjusting mechanism rarely ever does what its name implies, and then one day, you don't have rear brakes on one side, and then later, no rear brakes on the other.
Then even later, when you can't stop your car in the snow, you wonder wtf just happened.
Even worse if its a rear wheel drive car, and the rear tires won't stop churning.
I've seen that happen growing up in NYC more times than I could bear.
A car just sitting at a light, its rear tires slowly spinning away, as the big block V-8 just beats the traction of the road surface with its torque at idle.
My gf's PT Cruiser has this same undocumented feature.
There's a reason why rear drum brakes almost never wear out.
Oh, and someone on another forum scored a Sonata SE for ~$16k.
I'm still trying to figure out how they did that.
For $16k, I'd be all over it.
BC.