Ducati Monster Forum

So I got whacked today by a map-reading woman in a Prius. No biggie, slow speed kind of thing. Thank God for frame sliders. Still went OTB and scratched up the bike some (Gixxer I'm trying to sell). I can tell I will be sore for days to come. Not so bad considering. But it got me to thinking...
Are new bikes worth it?
I'm thinking about selling two bikes to get one new one. I'm already a tough sell as it is since I've never bought a new vehicle ever. But now thinking about a daily commute, weekend rides, monthly trips, I don't know. All that wear and tear on a new bike? And you know on week one some piece of debris is going to fly up off the road and scratch something. I don't want to be freaked out about every little ding or flying debris. Maybe I'm just not a new bike kind of guy?

Normally I would not consider a new bike, but now that a lot of new models feature ABS I am seriously looking at getting a new one with ABS.

nope, it's not worth it.  you're paying a lot more money just to say you bought a new bike. 

^^^That's just it. If new is the only way to get the model or features you want, it makes sense. Otherwise, on a Ducati, used is the only way to go. IME, new Ducs lose 40% of their value in the first 2 years, if you shop around and are patient. That's a huge hit.
All 3 of my current bikes are used (well, 4 counting the Daytona 675 I just bought for my fiancee)

Used is of course the cheaper and smarter way to go, but if I was wealthier I would probably buy a new Ducati every couple of years. 

Not sure I can wait 2-3 years to get a used M1100 with ABS, maybe I can wait until the end of the 2011 model year and try and score a marked down or demo unit.

That's exactly what I'm looking at doing. Didn't the 2010 M1100 already come with ABS? If that's the case then I would look for a used one and if I could not find any, then wait for the end of 2011 to get one for cheaper.

Earlier i said Ducs depreciate 40% in the first 2 yrs. I went back and looked at my bikes' purchase prices. When you add mods it's more like 50%  [evil]

A logical/mathematical analysis will never result in a new bike being a better deal. But logic doesn't always (rarely?) come into play where bikes are concerned, does it? Dealer prep, taxes, depreciation... You just get hammered unless you keep the bike for several years. Especially with so many low mileage bikes on the market. A lot of people buy a bike, put 500 miles a year on it, then sell 3 years later.

I just bought a 999 with 7200 miles on it for a song...

After selling my M750 (which I had bought used) out of pocket for me, including gas and meals driving to Albuquerque and back, was about $2,200.00!!!  :o   The bike is near flawless and has some tasty goodies too!  [thumbsup] 

If you look hard enough, and you're a little lucky, you can get a great bike for very little $$$


Did I mention I got a 999? Because I DID!!!  ;)





 [bacon]

well buying new when you look at it in cold numbers terms doesn't make sense.

like others say the depreciation is huge especially if you mod it at all you are never getting that money back ever.  that being i have always bought used bikes in good condition and then spent a ton on the maintenance to make sure they are in top shape after getting them (and by coincidence they were at the 6k service interval)

now why buy used? peace of mind.

yes you can do your homework and such when buying a used bike, but really you have no idea how the previous owner really did ride the bike or the 2 people before him, even if it has low miles on it.  did they bounce the thing off the rev limiter on every shift? did they leave the thing outside in teh rain and justcleaned it up befor eyou got it, etc?

you really will never know 100% with a used bike because you weren't there 24/7 with the bike, more often than not it won't matter, but what if it does down the line? nobody really knows.

that is the advantage of buying new, you know exactly how the owner treated the bike from day one, because its you, so as long as you are diligent then you can have peace of mind of what the bike has been through.

now what is the value of that? is it worth it for a new bike? some say yes, some say no, its up to you to decide.

my bikes is used but i am considering getting a new bike that is new because well i think the new bike is realy nice, but we will see, like others say its expensive and it will depreciate quick.  but then again i'm not doing it because it will hold value i'm considering it because i want the bike.  not logical at all.

I can't believe how on the same page everyone is with what I've been thinking. What a frugal lot we DMFers are. The only logic I was clinging to is I figure whatever bike I got new I'd probably keep it forever - or until the next map-reading Prius driver. Whichever comes first, YMMV, etc.

Like my Dad used to say "you just knocked the new off of it" regarding dings and scratches. He was the original "never buy new" kind of guy. I've bought new scooters and cars/trucks plenty but he did have a point. [thumbsup]

I am a proponent of buying things used, with a couple exceptions:

Make/model dependencies - there are a few instances where I would pay full price to know that was the only rider/driver, and I have the full service/crash/stunt/mod history.  I would, for example, be very cautious about buying a Subaru WRX, Suzuki GSXR, or Kawasaki ZX-6 used.  (Things with Xes in them, apparently)  Gixxers are Prius magnets*, from what I hear ;D.  I know this is prejudicial, but hey, it is my money.

Quantum leaps in performance or features - ABS would be a good reason to buy new in my opinion.

Otherwise, the idea of having something spanking new, while seductive, does not really offset depreciation. It is a head Vs heart thing.  Most times my head wins, but I don't begrudge those who go the other way.


* glad to hear you are OK by the way [thumbsup]  Heal up fast and be safe out there...

I bought mine new for a number of reasons.

  1. Self-satisfaction.  Owning a new vehicle puts a bigger grin on my face.

  2. ABS.  I absolutely wanted ABS.

  3. Peace of mind.  Can never be sure how a used bike was treated by the previous owner(s).

  4. Manufacturer warranty.

keep in mind, with value lost from driving a brand new vehicle off the lot, it is only a matter for if you don't intend to keep the machine long term...if you keep the machine for 3 years or more, then it balances out IMHO...because the smiles and ride time are priceless value that you get back from these machines...

I never purchase a new bike.  Cars, a couple of new ones.  For the cars, I'd say it was worth it to buy new.  I get the max miles out of cars and trucks and feel it is worth it to know how the thing is maintained and if all the recalls are responded to.  With bikes, I've always been able to get low mileage cupcakes.  There have been a few had maintenance or neglect issues that I had to fix myself.  I feel those issues just help me to become more familiar with the bike.  With used bikes I feel I can get away with no collision insurance.  If I wreck a bike my plan is to, take it home and fix it. 

never new for me...........I'm cheap and can't stomach the immediate value loss once you take possession. But then I drive a 1989 ford f150, so I maybe be at the far end of the cheap bastard spectrum.

I do see the ABS arguement though and if I had the disposable income I'd probably a new MTS1200 with abs.

One part of the new VS used equation a lot of people forget to include is how long do you keep a bike or car, and what makes you trade it in (age, miles, boredom).  If it is age or miles, a new car may_be_cheaper than used, since you will keep it longer.


mitt

If you have the money, what's an extra 2-3k to buy new and get the guaranteed dealer support and all the warm IZ_ awesomeness of owning something that is yours and only yours.

Well I didn't have the money so used it was. Ended up getting a <1yr old garage queen for ~$4,000 under the OTD price.

Which means I can spend ~$4,000 in mods and still break even right?!?!?!?! 

Regardless the smile/satisfaction/heart raping/badass value outweighs all depreciation and future loss on sale.

that is what I said above somewhat...which leads into the question of...

"how long do you keep a bike?"...I have had my track pregnant dog for 4 years now and the Gran Canyon for 3+ I think....I had my 01 Monster before that for 3 years before I had to give it up to the ex...the Kawasaki I had before that I had for 3 or so years....before that it was offroad bikes which are a totally different matter entirely IMHO...

My problem with buying used is that you have NO idea how it was treated or maintained unless you know the owner and his riding & maintenance habits.

I bought an Elefant years ago (for cheap) and when I got it home and changed the oil, the oil filter was a Ducati factory model that hadn't been sold in 10 years!!  You could tell from the logo on it, it was the old Bevel style logo that was still being used when the Pantahs were sold.

Likewise, you can't tell from looking how old the belts are, you have no idea how often they changed the oil or what brand they used, and so on.  Did they wheelie the bike every day, did they burn the clutch down to 20%..

Used bikes are a huge crapshoot.  If you know how to look for things, then you are better off, but if you don't, then buy a new bike with a warranty.  The extra cost you pay will be a warranty and less than all the maintenance and repairs you MIGHT be in for if you buy a used one.

A guy I know bought an M900 and it looked BEAUTIFUL, it looked like the owner loved the bike, new tires, clean brakes, clean frame, clean head nuts.. wait.. head nuts?  but it also seemed to run a bit anemically too..

I took a look at the heads, ran a leakdown test.. vertical head had no compression.. i stuck a fibre optic into the spark plug hole and looked at the piston.  i saw what i thought was a valve strike on the face. 

sure enough, he had broken a belt but the subsequent strike was very minor (luckily).  One valve head was bent ever so slightly. I don't know how that worked out.  Fortunately, he only needed to have the valves on the Vertical head redone, but it was a good bit of money of pocket.

that is why buying used is pretty much always caveat emptor....

+1 exactly zoom.

buying used is not a bad thing, you just have to really really do your homework and usually you end up with a pretty good deal, hey a garage queen bike with 4k miles on it that is 6 years old and 1/2 the price is a good deal,but again you have to do your homework.

i know a lot of people here are saying they do their own work on bikes and that is a very good thing, afterall if you get a bike with problems some of the costs of repair as in dealer labor you would not spend.  but remember not all of us are as mechanically inclined as others nor do we have the tools or desire to do so. 

so again for people like that (myself included when it comes to repairs more difficult than simple maintenance) its sometimes best to get a new vehicle to have that warranty, sure it means we take the hit on depreciation but also it means that if something goes wrong in the first couple of years of riding that its not us wrenching it or taking on the cost of repair.

'67 Aermacchi/HD Sprint SS 250 .... purchased (sort of) in 1989 and now my roadracer.
'95 Ducati 900 SS/SP .... purchased in 1999, since ridden about 35k miles
'02 Ducati MH90e .... purchased in 2009, since ridden about 7k miles.

That list doesn't mention the Suzuki GSXR 750 (raced for four years), Yamaha V-Max (two years was enough), Honda Hawk (totalled after a mere two years....wish I still had her), Honda CBR900RR (this one only lasted about 6 months....one of those front end tucks on the 16" wheel was bound to catch up to me sooner or later!!), Suzuki GS650GL (first bike I ever spent money on...my brother stole it and blew it up after about a year), or any of the other hardware I've owned and abandoned over the years.

I guess the answer is, it depends on how much I like the bike!  I never thought I'd keep that old SS for over a decade.  However, it has become my "weapon of choice" for weekend slicing and dicing.  It runs well, it handles well, it's comfy, and it's not ass-ugly.  What else could one ask for?!? 

All of these bikes except for the V-Max were bought used.  I wish I had bought the V-Max used.   :-[  I wish I had bought the SS new!   [bang]  Other than those two errors, I like my record in bike purchases.

BTW....did Bacon Junkie mention that he bought a 999?  Well, he did!!

 [laugh]

awesome

 [clap]

Cloner, your SS/SP is gorgeous!   [drool]




 [bacon]

It was at one time....like this....
(http://www.intrepidcaferacers.com/gallery/hooligans/cloner_stoppie.jpg)

It has changed several times since this pic was taken shortly after its acquisition.  Now it has a red frame, flat slides, termignoni spaghetti exhause, some body damage, 30k more miles, an oil leak, and a fatter rider.   ;D

Looking at that photo makes me nostalgic....I loved those frikkin' boots.  They're honest-to-Dog leather Sidi boots without all of the modern armor that makes boots safer to wear.  The soles just wouldn't stay together forever.   :'(

Hopefully this doesn't turn into the "should I finance bike/toy" thread.  in the end, it's about what makes more sense to you.  The more expensive option of buying new would give you the piece of mind that you get exactly what you expect, without worrying about what the previous owner(s) had done with it. 

I like used vehicles. You save a lot of money and have the opportunity to pick up some nice mods without breaking the bank. You're also taking something that someone else can't keep or doesn't want any more and giving it a new lease of life. I'm pretty confident that if something has been abused, provided you know what you're looking at (and for) it will show and you can make an informed decision based on what you DO know and any service records that might be present. It always surprises me how lackadaisical people are about that stuff, but hey, it's a machine, you can always replace parts and bring it back to awesome condition. Then again, it depends entirely on how much money you have, if it's no skin off your nose why not just buy brand spanking new, who cares? Just my 2 pennies.

I want a M1200S.  I'm capable, but not ready to drop 20K + on a bike.  I'm very hopeful I can find one in the next year in the 15K range.   I can deal with a one or 2 year old bike and save nearly 7K between tax and purchase price...no problem.

Um, very sorry for the thread-jack, but...how do you like the Daytona?  I've been thinking about picking one up (hella deals out there on USED ones, around $5k...see, I am kinda on-topic!)  Wondering how I'd like it in comparison to an 848.  Currently have an S2R 1000.

I freakin' love it! The fiancée has yet to ride it, and I've taken it out at least a half dozen times. Plenty of USABLE power; I routinely get it up to the redline, probably because I'm used to the 1098, so it feels very non-threatening. Very light, and feels even lighter. Easy turn in, holds a line well, and mid corner corrections are easy. Just a sweet little bike.

<end threadjack>

the thing i don't understand is why the 675 daytonas are all going for a cheap price, what makes them depreciate so badly? and why are so many people selling them?  seems like there are more of those for sale than other bikes, even the r6 and such

This was always a mystery to me. It really is strange.

I had a local guy selling an 08 675 for 5,000 with only 800 miles on it. Bike was PERFECT. I already had the 696 though so passed up... now I regret the decision. I needs more bikeses.

I only buy new.

I seem to have to have the latest and greatest.

My 1098 R will be 3 years old this Spring w, 6,000 miles on it.

I dig warranties ....plus nothing gets under my skin more than a bike breakdown or having to take the bike to the shop often and usually w, NEW that's not the case.

Plus I worked hard for 30 years and now is the time to enjoy the fruits of my labor.

That's why the new S 1000 RR .

(http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn198/DoubleEagle_photo/DSCN0501.jpg)

Dolph

Did you buy the sweater and sunglasses with it?  Every S1000x driver I see is wearing a sweater tied around their shoulders and RayBans.

daytonas were $9k new in 08.  Combine it with a market that is only familiar with r6/gsxr/6R/RR and i guess it means killer depreciation?

most of the ones i have seen were $5500-6500

Being patient enough to buy a used bike is the hard part...

I couldn't afford a new Ducati or most any other bike that I would want. Getting a new M1100 would be a budget buster. I'm fortunate that the aesthetic of the older models is more appealing to me. My favorite in the current line is the GT reproduction. I'd opt for a used bike. The savings might be a crap-shoot as far as what service it might need, but even with a valve job or new belts or an engine tear-down, you'll (almost always) still come out cheaper over new.

A friend of mine recently picked up an 07 Aprilia RSV Factory with 2.5k on the clock for $8.5. It is
basically brand new. Retail was $17k plus.

I've only bought used Ducati's- personally I look at it like this.  A lot of the owners ride like me (though I wish it wasn't the case)- not much, and not hard.  Combine that with the coin they had to drop on a new bike and if they are attracted to a Ducati they know something about bikes and are typically more aware of the maintenance needs. That and the guys who like to hit the rev limiter at red lights don't go for Ducs. These are of course generalizations, and there are exceptions, but this is definitely more of the case with a used Ducati than a GSXR or similar.  It is easier to find a low mileage, well cared for garage queen that is a Ducati than most brands. My first was a '02 750 senna, 85 miles on the clock- pristine. God I miss that bike.  I think if you take your time and look hard you can find most any bike you want used in decent condition. Especially in this economy ;)

It's

It's a S1000RR and make the beast with two backs no I did'n buy any sweater and RayBans w, it.

I wear full leathers every time I ride it.

Sweater and RayBans must just be a NYC thing or where ever you live.

Dolph

My buddy recent;y bought a brand new F800GS for 16K.

For the same price he could've gotten my wife's

BMW 650 Xcountry
My R100GS
and my other friends KTM Super Enduro.

He still needs a new seat and to set up his suspension.

So, you know-used.

The only bike I've ever bought new off the showroom floor was my '06 VRSCR. However, it was a holdover that I bought in early '07 at a hugely discounted price.

Otherwise I've always sought out barely-used examples that someone bought on a whim and tucked away in the garage, getting them for a fraction of their original MSRP.

Pardon my ignorance, the only S1000 I know of is a car from Honda.

It's an S2000

(http://www.forum-auto.com/uploads/200309/_ed9_arno_1063754677_s1000_g.jpg)

Well you didn't see it in the US

I did not, indeed.

No, not worth it at the moment.

Bikes drop in value (as do cars) as soon as you sign the paperwork and transfer a title.  But that's not why many of us have or buy bikes.

What's really not with it for me is the 'necessary accessories' to get a Ducati to run properly.  I.E., Termis, ECU mod, re-gearing etc.  This adds a LOT of extra money onto the price of a new bike.  IMHO, if you were to look for another bike, seek out a well-kept model you're interested in, hopefully with some of those accessories already installed.

You'd be money ahead, and if the bike were a few years old, in a lower insurance rate as well.

Not to mention the plastic tank deformation debachle.

If you can afford to buy new and it doesn't crimp your style.......are you still inclined to buy used ?

Dolph

Wasting money is never a good plan.

8)

I was just reading about the new Duc 1198.  The 2011 model has a slightly increased price over last year but has the features of the S model.  That make buying new attractive.  I haven't done it, but it would be interesting to compare the price of a new 1198 to the price of a one year old S model. 

The new/used delimna really doesn't start until you compare new with 3 to 4 year old bikes. A new 1198 with S model tweaks compared to a one year old 1198S is a toss up IMO. I suspect there won't be a HUGE difference in price (at least not for someone willing to spring for an 1198, new or 1 year old). In that case I might/probably would go with new. But the again, I wouldn't look at a one year old bike. Still too new for me.

It's not wasting money if the new bike is what you want. A lot of people would say that buying a moto of any sort is wasting money. It's all relative.   [coffee]

I've bought both new and used. I think new is worth it if it's for a model that you can't get a good used deal on. I also admt to having more piece of mind after buying new...with the warranty and all. Every used bike I've gotten (and they've all ended up being good bikes) has had something the previous owner did that pissed me off.

My first bike was used.  It took me 6 months to find one that was in good enough condition, taken care of, and a seller that I trusted.  Then 5 days later I binned it and got a check from the insurance company.  6 months to find it, 5 days to wreck it.  After that I bought my 06 S2R800 Monster new.  Stupid move probably yes.  I was much more careful this time though.  I know exactly everyone who has rode my bike, worked on it and everything little detail about it though.  Hopefully the new owner will love it just as much as I do.

Really it is up to you.  If I was to buy another right now it would be used because next bike I want is an S4RS.

The day you pick up your brand new motorcycle..........Priceless.

Actually, there is a price.  Thus, the thread.

But, ya... I know what you're saying.  Buying new is always a great feeling.

Yet, I agree with the others who have pointed out that it's relatively easy to find a deeply discounted Ducati garage queen.  At least as compared to most other makes.

At the same time, I also agree that buying new to get ABS is well worth considering.  Kind of makes it worth the hit in my estimation, especially for a relatively new rider.

The same day, you drop your brand new bike... On youtube.. 10x priceless

Nice Ducati (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HO1CYd6ghRw#normal)

I will always buy my bike at a garage, I prefer new bikes or young second hand bikes.
But sometimes you do find some nice oldies  [thumbsup]

I am glad people buy new bikes because that means their used ones go up for sale for me to buy  [laugh].  I have never bought any vehicle new, though I have been tempted before.  A bit of simple math usually fixes it.  Lets take an M1100 for example.  You could have a brand new off the showroom floor M1100.  Or you could probably end up with a 1 year old M1100S model as well as a cheap track bike for the same price.  Or a dirt bike.  Or you could take that $3000 and save it just in case all of your worries about the previous owner abusing it come true and the engine explodes.  You could put a whole nother used engine in it and still come out ahead.  And as far as the nice, new, never been ridden feeling, it is enjoyable for a bit but will wear off very soon, and how many of you would pass up the girl of your dreams because she had been lightly ridden once before!  :o.

I prefer new bikes as my main, commuter tool. I've had a very good owner experience with 4 BMWs so far and I really can't fault them. ABS is now important for me as riding all year round with and increasing number of hapless car drivers to dodge every day in Madrid is ever increasing. I also value the heated grips, a lot. Chain drive is still ok with me on the 800 and S1000 however it was much easier with a shaft drive on the previous ones.

The main reason for me is the excellent private leasing on these bikes with a guaranteed minimum value.. and they sell well (here).

My fun bike is (for now) my (bought used) Ducati.. I can do whatever to it, good or bad, and don't have to worry about warranty issues.

Out of 40 or so bikes that I've had, only a few have been new.     The big depreciation hit is what got to me.    As has been mentioned, 30-50% is more or less the norm.

But on the other hand, there are bikes like the Multistrada 1200S, or the S1000RR, or the new Kawasaki ZXrecall bike.    If you buy it used, and something goes bzzzzzzt in the electronics, who is on the hook for that?   And I am now a firm believer in the extended warranties available.   Some are good, some are not.   But 4 or 5 years of no worry is a pretty good thing to me. 

Am I ready for the big $25,000 1198S hit?   Or Streetfighter?   Or maybe lo-buck it on a Hyper EVO1100?   That's only about $15,000 out the door.    Who knows, I'm pretty impulsive.    Maybe one of these days, the Silverado is going to be paid off soon.   And it's got plenty of life left in it.    I've got enough room for another bike.