Ducati Monster Forum

I have posted this in other threads, but if you haven't seen this. It will solve any issues you have. Depending on where you live. I have 6 of them 20 miles from my house.


www.pure-gas.org (http://)

Great post Daryl... [thumbsup]

That shit has starting to make its way into our gas... [bang]

 [coffee]

Oh thank god! My issue is I need to borrow someones keys because my computer is locked up and it says "press any key" and mine are locked in my yugo. I'd break a window to get them out but it's already drafty what with the windshield missing. Pure gas loaned me a coat hanger and some misc collection of missing red keys. Thanks Pure-Gas!

thanks! only 1 in my area, but it's a mile down the road. [thumbsup]

no california

Damn, none close to DFW/TX. Semi close but not worth the extra effort. Thanks for the cool post anyway!! Hope some folks are lucky enough to have one down the block. [thumbsup]

7 in ohio. When I saw this site a couple years ago, there were three within a mile of my house. Now the nearest is about 70 miles away.

unfortunately there does not seem to be any near San Antonio  [bang]

yes, the list is shrinking all the time. upstate ny is the same...

Thanks for posting Daryl.

Dolph     :)

The nearest pure gas station is about a tankful ride away from me. :'(

But I have a metal tank. [thumbsup]

Fortunately, we've still got 5 stations around here (Houma, LA) that sell pure gas. There's lots of demand as EVERYONE owns a boat around here.

krolik, you're certainly safer with your metal tank, but I hope your fuel pump holds up. That's been a problem on some bikes, and on many more cars than people realize. I definitely try to keep pure gas in the new Beemer as much as I can.

SwampDuc,

There is one in Lake Charles across the street from a boat ramp.  You should find real gas at pumps near boat ramps as outboard motors do NOT like ethanol.

I'm lovin' my Frosty painted, POR-15 treated, steel tank on my ole' '97!

 [beer]

By the way, here is a great product, from a great vendor, that treats ethanol storage:

http://www.desmotimes.com/product206.htm (http://www.desmotimes.com/product206.htm)

Sweet.  There is a station 4 miles from my house!  [thumbsup]

The nearest for me is over 20 miles away.  It's sort of sad when you think of how many gas stations are around...  :'(

Keep looking around. Check all the Unbranded stations, especially out in the country where there is a lot of farm equipment, or like has been said, near or at a Marina.

I have found 4 more near me that aren't on the list. (yet)

Found another Station today. That's 8 within a 20 mile radius.  [thumbsup]

It probably has to do with the local refinery.

I doubt any refineries near to me have it.

bastards

Anybody having any luck?

Nuthin within over 100 miles.  The east Texas - Houston area looks like a wasteland.  Odd, the area has the highest density of petro-chemical plants in the world. 

nothing around the nyc area at all :\

Even though none are listed near me on the site, I know there are several that only have pure 87 and 91.   

mitt

Yea we shld checi in long island or by sheepshead bay

None near me :(

I thought you were in Afghanistan? They should have pure gas.  ;)

Found another one yesterday, right under my nose. The gas station on Post, which means cheaper prices as well.  [thumbsup]

I hate you so much right now...

 ;D [drink]

Cool there are three in my town.  [thumbsup]

 [popcorn]

(http://i1201.photobucket.com/albums/bb349/vinaya18/monkey-flipping-off.jpg)

 [laugh] [laugh] [laugh]

After desperately trying to find one in the greater nyc area... A couple were listed in eastern PA. But when I called the station, they said they all now have 10-15% ethanol because of a fed mandate that was pushed through  ???

Sunoco has this racing fuel '250GT' which is 100 octane (105 research and 95 motor). Anyone try this in their monsters..??
I mixed it in half a tank in my car.. A slightly better feel and mileage increase of 2-3 mpg.. But the f'ing thing was $8.50 a gallon  :'( and when I tested it with the fuel testing kit, it showed 5% ethanol  :-[

Been looking for the 100 octane for the neon on pump.. closest is in LI though.  Damn you ethanol...

The Sunoco on Deer Park Ave used to carry Cam2.  I think it was 104 octane.  My old GPZ750 would scream with that in it.  A relative of mine installs gas stations and he told me that you'd be hard pressed to find straight gas in the NY metro area anymore.  As long as you treat the fuel with Stabil Marine or some other ethanol treatment, it should be ok. ;)

I found a station on Sat in NC.  Not sure exactly where it was (street names), but we had just finished Wayah road (thunder road?).  It was on the corner of wayah and ??? on the right hand side.

Said 100% gas, no E added :)  [thumbsup]

none listed in Maine...

Found it on the map, "Loafer's Glory"  [thumbsup]

Yeah.. Found that the ethanol gets mixed at the distributor.

Over the weekend, after some research and calling around.. VP Racing (www.vpracing.com (http://)) makes a bunch of blends of fuel. One of them is C10 which is a 100 octane ethanol free blend. Their main distributor is located in Newark, DE. But there is a shop in Queens, NY that said they could order any of their blends..

A 5 gallon drum of C10 was $80. 15 gal drum was about $235. It also comes in 30 and 55 gal drums. I wasn't brave enough to ask for those prices  :-\

Not sure if it is worth $16 a gallon.. At which point I might as well get myself  a H1.

so I've tried the sunoco 250GT 100 octane 5% ethanol gas in the monster.. and no noticeable difference in the way it runs..

Not sure if its good or bad :(

You would have to tune it to see a diff..  just putting in higher octane wont do much.. c10 is good racing fuel..

Careful with race fuels.  Some don't have the needed additives for storage, some do.  Some have caustic oxygenates and cannot be left in the vehicle.  Some don't.  The refiner's websites will often tell you.  Sunoco's is excellent.  http://www.sunocoinc.com/site/consumer/racefuels/ (http://www.sunocoinc.com/site/consumer/racefuels/)

and some of them are enriched to the gills with ethanol

The ethanol has not seemed to bother my '01 fuel-injected Monster, but it raises hell with the outboard engine on my old sailboat. I'm going to try one of the Stabil products. I have used Stabil in the bike while it's in  winter storage and it seems to work fine.

Without shooting off into politics, I'd just like to say that it would be easy to blame the govt. for the mandated use of ethanol. But, then you realize that the big agri-business contribute loads of money to our elected representatives who pass these ridiculous laws. End result is fuel not fully-suited for our current internal combustion engines and more expensive food to boot.

Did I mention that I hate all politicians?

without shooting off into politics? ???

A strictly non-partisan rant. No intention to offend. No difference than ranting about absurd noise enforcement. I think we can all agree that sometimes laws are short-sighted.

Anybody find a new 100% station?

Thought I had at a marina near my new place.  Turns out their fuel has ethanol in it, just doesn't have it labeled on the pump.   [thumbsdown]

They gotta label it, so tell em to shit or get off the pot.  :D

This is where I fill up 99% of the time. It was listed on the site for a Spartanburg, SC station. They still have pure gas in premium and regular. It's right off of Business 85. if you're ever traveling on 85 through SC it's worth the stop. Filled up today for $3.79/gal.

(http://images2.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp539%3A%3B%3Enu%3D3386%3E555%3E45%3B%3EWSNRCG%3D337%3A63%3B95%3A347nu0mrj)

^^ [thumbsup]

great post to bad there isnt any shown close to me

Search around and if you find one send the address to the site.

Still not any in Joisey... [thumbsdown]

I hate all of you

Wonder how many people get the 10% eth blend. Cuz its cheaper...

I'd have no problem putting it in my wife's new car -- 2011.  Manual specifically says that the car is designed for E10.

I wouldn't put it in my car though.  Cause it takes diesel.. :-)

My wife's car's MPG dropped pretty much exactly 10%, sometimes a little more, running on 10% E fuel.  Its a civic VX - an ultra-lean-burn motor (mid-40s on the E fuel, ~50mpg on the good stuff hwy).

she has been secretly drag racing, didn't tell you...

from this thread I assume that what I heard at work it's not true... I was told BP's gas still 100% pure?

it might depending on the region, but very very high chance no.  i can say for sure that it's e10 here in the nj/nyc area.

next time you fill up, take a look at the pump... it will say if it's e10 or not.

These states do not require pumps to be label E10/gasohol/ethanol enriched:

District of Columbia - DC,  Indiana - In,  Kansas - KS,  Kentucky - KY,  Maryland - MD,  Michigan - MI,  Minnesota - MN,  Missouri - MO,  Nevada - NV, New Hampshire - NH  - New Jersey - NJ,  North Carolina - NC,  Ohio - OH.

All the other states have some form of labeling requirement.

Yup no labeling in Indiana  [thumbsdown]

At this point E10 is the only option in most of the US.  Though there is no direct federal mandate requiring E10  there is a mandate that "Nonattainment Areas for Criteria Pollutants" take corrective action.   Many states chose to do this by requiring "clean (oxygenated) fuel"  MBTE was  originally the oxygenate of choice  Due to concerns of the carcinogenic affect of MBTE it was banned.  The replacement was ethanol.  A pretty good guess is if you live near a city or a highly industrial area E10 is mandated.

Sta-Bil has a new (?) product you can use to help un-make the beast with two backs E10 while the vehicle is in use.

I like how it's recommended for use at every fill-up. 

link?

It's at the bottom.

http://www.goldeagle.com/brands/stabil/products.aspx#SET (http://www.goldeagle.com/brands/stabil/products.aspx#SET)

it's 95% naptha, same as the current Sta-bil marine formula.  The other 5% is valve lube and color.

Badged in the marine formula, probably wouldn't spark interest outside of the water folks.

Next time someone gets their 3rd or 4th pos tank from Ducati, they should try this product to see
if it helps.

I don't know that naphtha is so good for nylon either!

This all seems strange to me.  Here in Nebraska, EVERY gas station sells 87, 89 (E-10) and 91.  So are they sneaking ethanol into the 87 and 91 without labeling it or is 89/E-10 the only one with ethanol? 

Should only be the one marked. If you can catch the tanker truck, ask the driver.

Hello ducatiz,

The marine formula treatment is (1) fl. oz. (30ml) / 10 gal. (38L), so not a very strong concentration. Any way you could confirm whether it's harmless to PA6? I no longer have industry contacts since retiring.

Where did you read about naphtha content, BTW? I couldn't find that in the FAQ on the Stabil site and the bottle only states that it contains petroleum distillates. I've been relying on these paragraphs:

"Q: Is MARINE Formula STA-BIL® Ethanol Treatment safe to use?
A: MARINE Formula STA-BIL is completely safe to use in any engine powered by gasoline, gasoline/oil mixtures, and ethanol blends. It contains no additives that could harm a fuel tank or fuel lines, or an engine, fuel injectors or intake valves. Use of STA-BIL will not void any engine warranty. In addition, over treatment is safe and will not harm engine."

"Q: Does your product protect the fuel lines? Does it protect rubber gaskets and plastic parts? What parts of the Fuel system does Marine Formula STA-BIl protect, and how?
A: NO additive, including Marine Formula STA-BIl can protect rubbers and plastics that are not designed for exposure to Ethanol or other chemicals found in gasoline. Marine Formula was designed to protect against corrosion on any metal components of the fuel system. This product is also an excellent fuel system cleaner, removing deposits that have accumulated on the carburetor, fuel injectors or intake valve."

"Q: How does Marine Formula STA-BIL handle water?
A: Ethanol blended fuels can naturally hold up to 4 tbsp of water per gallon (about 0.5%) before phase separation occurs. Marine Formula STA-BIL® contains a chemical that will absorb an additional fraction of a percent of water above this amount (around 0.2%), by bonding with the water molecules, allowing this additional amount to pass safely through the engine and out through the tailpipe. Any amount above this will drop to the bottom and phase separate. Removing large amounts of water (more than 0.75%) through bonding will cause poor power/acceleration and sometimes cause the engine to quit. Additionally, it can cause catastrophic engine damage. No engine manufacturer recommends removal of these large amounts of water through bonding."

Best regards! William

William

MSDS sheets

is there an additive out there that can protect plastics n rubbers?

if you want to protect your rubbers, don't keep them in your wallet

Rubbers, we don't need no stinken rubbers.. 

Thanks! For what it's worth..., I sent them a mail and had this reply. Might be nice if it were true, but no idea whether this answer comes from a salesman or a chemist!  ;)

"Hi William,

When diluted as directed all STA-BIL products are compatible with nylon
fuel tanks.

-----Original Message-----
From: XXX
Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2011 9:50 AM
To: STA-BIL
Subject: Marine Formula - PA6 Nylon Tanks
Importance: High

Can you confirm that Marine Sta-Bil is harmless to PA6 Nylon fuel tanks?"

I found this on the net while searching out of pure boredom, and my question is can you still find pure gas at stations?

In most states, ethanol is added by law to a minimum level which is currently 5.9%. Most fuel pumps display a sticker stating the fuel may contain up to 10% ethanol, an intentional disparity which allows the minimum level to be raised over time without requiring modification of the literature/labelling. Until late 2010, fuels retailers were only authorized to sell fuel containing up to 10 percent ethanol (E10), and most vehicle warranties (except for flexible fuel vehicles) authorize fuels that contain no more than 10 percent ethanol.[11] In parts of the United States, ethanol is sometimes added to gasoline without an indication that it is a component in some states.

http://pure-gas.org/ (http://pure-gas.org/)

 [clap] Thanks for that page!! I wonder how much more expensive it is, seeing as how the watered down stuff is 3.85...

Around here it is the same price as the E10.

Have you run e10 in your monster Travman??

Out of curiosity, does av-gas contain ethanol? My Dad was really into flying and always had a prop plane or two around most of his life. I raced MX in high school and college and the av-gas he used in his planes was a higher octane than any conventional pump gas on the street. Can't remember the octane rating now but it rivaled race gas. 100+ easy. He used to get it for me to run in my race bikes... and no, it didn't help my on track performance! [bang] It was more a mindset advantage and yeah, it was probably good for the bikes. But back in the early 70s when I used it the pump gas was good... and cheap! When was the last time you could say that? :P

Anyway, any ethanol in av-gas in this day and time? And if not, why not? Maybe I should top up my bike's gas tanks at the airport again. ;)

Not sure about the quality of aircraft fuel but when I was in the Navy we used jp-5 in our birds. I don't think it was compatible with any other vehicle. But then again I am no expert soooo....

Avoid avgas. It has some wicked additives and no doubt some alcohols. In the 70's was told it was bad for my valves as a regular diet. Aircraft engines are designed to run on avgas at altitude where it's COLD!

Your dirt bikes were OK due to premix probably. If you want to run the same octane, buy Sunoco 260 GTX, 98 R+M/2 and no alcohol, but ~ $8. Has great fuel system additives though!  ;)

Last year I used the Pure Gas site to look for good gas here in Southern Ontario then found that most every Shell station all around me has ethanol free 91 octane at the same price as all the other 91s.  Just never noticed it before as it was of no interest.  Best part of that is that I found my 796 really picky about gas, running a little different on different brands and such but it LOVES the pure stuff  [thumbsup]

Unfortunately the 100% gas (no ethanol) available around me is all 87 octane.  I run 93 octane since my bike has higher compression than stock.  So I've never used the 100% gas.

Yeah, you are right they were 2 strokes running on pre-mix. Still didn't win many races because of it... but I did win a few. [laugh] I'd like to think it wasn't because of the av-gas. ;D

I doubt the Avgas is bad for 2 stoke valves.  ;D

On the list there's a place in Gore with unbranded 93. You're in Winchester, right? That's ~ 12+ miles out Rt. 50. Wish I had a spot that close!

Good catch. I'll have to fill up there soon. I pass through the Gore area a couple times a year.  We'll see if I can notice any difference.

Sometimes unbranded is fine if they buy it from a decent-sized local oil company. Down here, both Excel and Royal are like that and the stuff is good. My mileage increases 10% and all the cars and bikes run better.

There are a few other spots off I-81 south of there. I was looking for a fueling spot on the way to Duc Pond for service, but all were too far out of my way. (I'm on Rt. 522 too..., but 140 miles south!  ;)) Missed that one in Gore myself but I could never make it there on one tank! My reserve light came on ~ 110 and I had to find 93 anywhere because I have no idea how far I could get on that reserve.

Let me know how it is.

Cough......1st post.  :D

Cough..., ducpainter merged the threads at post #1 today... Cough, cough... 8)

So someone started a new thread on the same topic then?

Correct!  ;D

 [thumbsup]

The place in town I was buying it from is going to stop selling ethanol-free next month. Apparently, they are making it impossible to get it. Last year he had to buy his own truck to transport it from the refinery, as no one would ship it anymore.

Something else is going on now (I heard him grumble something about the EPA  [laugh]), and he said it was no longer financially feaseable to sell it.

So...ethanol gas it is....sorry monster  :-[

Does Shell sometimes not use e10?   Ive fueled at two stations lately and says nothing like other stations. 

The Shell stations around me all have just one pump branded V-Tec (91) and that's the pure stuff.

You're in Toronto, right? Maybe we need two pipelines from up north.  ;)

Wonder what they use to boost octane besides MTBE and ethanol. Found it interesting that the Aussies have dropped their ethanol mandate. Wish that could happen here with a bit of common sense. As my son said when I mentioned this, "they probably have no corn lobby". With the ethanol subsidy gone this year, maybe I should cross my fingers and toes?

excellent.  I'll keep a look out for this.

 [popcorn]

The only shell in my town has V-Power, not V-Tech, but maybe I missed a pump. I'll have to look more thoroughly next time I'm there. The V-Power has the moonshine in it http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=411398 (http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=411398).

Something going on with Shell here in Ontario.  I started using their ethanol free last year and certain pumps were clearly labelled "ethanol free".  I've been happily filling with the stuff this spring but now I check the Shell.ca website and there's not one word on ethanol.  The Pure Gas site still indicates their 91 octane is pure but I'm not so sure that's still correct.  I have to ride around and check all the pumps at all the local stations because I haven't paid attention this year.

They have to post contains ethanol on their pumps if it has it. At least in the states.

....quiet night at work.  I just googled the issue and browsed some car forums, seems nobody knows for sure, all kinds of different opinions and misinformation on the Shell 91 product.

Gas formulations vary widely by country and even by state (here in the US).  If they're advertising it as ethanol free, then it likely is.

You can usually email them from the website, try that.

I had bought a ethanol tester kit last year. Most Shell near me have 7-10% in the vpower. The sunoco 100 octane race fuel I managed to find also had 5% ethanol.

I have given up my thirst for pure gas. ..

Where are you? NYC metro? At the pump you need to get FAR away from the big cities to find pure gas.

If you can locate a Sunoco racing fuel dealer selling most of the products, the 98 M+R/2 unleaded is alcohol-free. http://www.racegas.com/fuel/8 (http://www.racegas.com/fuel/8) I have one ~ 30 miles from me. (For "off-road use"  8))

Right now, yes. I tried to find distributors all last year, but all of them only sold 5/30/50 gallon drums. Getting only 5 gal wasn't worth the effort. If I have a 50 gal drum of fuel in my back yard. The possibility of the  [leo] thinking I'm blowing up the city is pretty high!

In NJ I used to keep a 15 gal. galvanized drum the CAM II dealer sold in my garage for convenience. Now I have 4 5-gal. race jugs but only make that trip once a year. Only the 796 and one of my cars uses it. I'll make 2 - 3 more trips to the mountains ~ 70 miles to buy pure 93 which is a LOT cheaper.  ;) Hope that doesn't go away. I know the race gas dealer won't. http://www.worldwideracingfuels.com/road.aspx?categoryID=5 (http://www.worldwideracingfuels.com/road.aspx?categoryID=5)

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/05/16/ethanol-concerns-bring-customers-to-more-costly-pure-gas-stations/?test=latestnews (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/05/16/ethanol-concerns-bring-customers-to-more-costly-pure-gas-stations/?test=latestnews)

Interesting article.  FWIW the Shell V Power I referred to previously in S. Ont. IS still ethanol free.  I did in fact contact Shell.ca from their website asking about general availability.  I got an automated response from Shell Pty in South Africa telling me I would get a response soon.  There was no other response.  Their Cdn. web site still makes no reference to ethanol whatsoever and oddly enough they are advertising the V Power on TV up here promoting the Nitrogen rich cleansers.  No mention of ethanol, ever.  Assuming they are shy due to some kind of regulatory concern I am dummying up because I don't want to be part of killing the goose that lays golden eggs.  I'm OK (for now):  sorry about you guys.

Everyone needs to look up EROI (Energy Return on Investment).  There was an article in the May issue of The American Society of Mechanical Engineering's monthly periodical "Mechanical Engineering" where they plotted various energy sources.  Ethanol scored less than 2; a 1 means spending as much energy producing it as you get out of it.  Freaking oil sands which is the least productive method of petroleum recovery scored a 3.  The article recommends not wasting time on anything below a 5.

Oh yeah, the most bang for your buck is conservation. Shocking eh? Walk and you don't spend any money on energy sources.

From the Fox article:  "Proponents say E-15 will save drivers 5 cents more a gallon . . ."  coughBScough.  Carpool one day a week and you'll save a whole lot more than 5 cents a gallon plus it won't f-up your vehicle.

Article is up on ASME; Pg 26.  http://www.asme.org/kb/newsletters/me-magazine-previous-issue (http://www.asme.org/kb/newsletters/me-magazine-previous-issue)

What's the skinny?

The article title is: "Running on Empty.  As oil prices soar, a simple formula may determine which energy options are worth pursuing."  One of their many conclusions is that ethanol is not worth pursuing;  EROI < 5; < 2 actually for corn based ethanol.

Praise Budda, I still get alcohol free gas one mile from my house and now several other places within 5-20 miles on the way to work and back.  I mix half and half 87 and 93. Works great.

There is a fast expanding company here in upstate new york called fastrac. It looks like lately they started to switch to ethanol free premium (91). More and more of their stations pop up on the pure-gas website list. Let's hope this trend continues. (Now I have 3 gas stations on my daily route!)

Doubt they'll come close to the city..

I've found gas stations in eastern TN that have the basic three (87, 91, 93) with 10% ethanol, BUT have a second, nozzle for 100% 87 unleaded.  It's only a few cents more than Ethanol 87.

JM

I'm not a fan of corn based ethanol, but there again the idea was to use corn ethanol to pave the way for cellulosic ethanol. Unfortunately cellulosic ethanol is still being developed and is no where near ready for commercial production

I'm so glad most all of the stations here are ethanol free.

Heart of WHERE in Dixie?!  ;)

Ft McClellan area.

Brazilians have been using 100% ethanol for years produced from cane.  The difference is that they have vehicles designed for it, not gasoline vehicles forced to use it.

Make it from snail turds for all I care, just allow the driver of a gasoline-only vehicle to get "G100"..  Blender pumps should be the standard.  Choose 0% up to 10% for cars nowadays or up to 100% for ehtanol cars.

 [thumbsup]

So, all vehicle's imported to Brazil, Ferrari, Porsche, Audi, Ducati etc etc etc are made specially for Ethanol?????

I think all that is available (excluding diesel fuels) that is available is E20 up to E 100.  Ducati also does sell motorcycles there.  What are they doing about fuel tanks?  There may be a solution for us.  

No.  Gasoline is still available but Brazil has a large domestic car industry and makes them.  VW Brasil makes most of the VW s in the USA too.

Import taxes on cars in Brazil make them very expensive too while domestic made cars are very cheap.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol_fuel_in_Brazil (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol_fuel_in_Brazil)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_ethanol_fuel_mixtures (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_ethanol_fuel_mixtures)  scroll down
http://alternativefuels.about.com/od/ethanol/a/ffvsbrazil.htm (http://alternativefuels.about.com/od/ethanol/a/ffvsbrazil.htm)
http://www.extension.iastate.edu/agdm/articles/hof/HofFeb09.html (http://www.extension.iastate.edu/agdm/articles/hof/HofFeb09.html)

wow, i didn't know they completely demised pure gas in brazil!!

Still have 10 stations near me in Alabama that are Ethanol free.  ;)