Ducati Monster Forum

According to insider sources in Thailand and reports from finacial press in italy Ducati are to copy Triumph and build a new factory in thailand with a probable start date of 2012!!!!!!!!The main reason is expanded demand and Low Asean import duties for Asian markets .
local industrial estates in Thailand are buzzing as to which one will get the plant .
reports from italy also say Ducati workforce are very worried by the idea as it could affect jobs .
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MONSTERMAN

I hope this ISN'T true.

diluted the market with cheap knockoffs...
sure it will still be a Ducati... made in Thailand  [bang]

 :-X

I don't like the sound of this.

Aren't Triumphs made over there now as well? Seems to be the way of things.

maybe this is where they will build the new Ducati scooters....

But weren't they building a new factory in Borgo Panigale?

Is this just an 'assembly plant' for the local markets in an effort to lower taxes?

If so it will be interesting to see what happens to the Ducati market in Australia, because we would surely be the recipients of 'Thai' Ducatis.

i have a number of used-to-be-made-in-japan-but-are-now-made-in-thailand nikon lenses that are perfectly fine.

well i look at it this way.

having a Ducati means buying an Italian made motorcycle to me. NOT buying an Italian branded Thailand made motorcycle

IF it came to the point of buying a bike and I saw via VIN that it was made in Thailand and not Italy.. I would pass.. no matter the price.


for example...
Toyota... The Corolla for years was made in Japan only. then they started the Nummi plant and were making them in the states. 90% of the problem ones we had when i worked at a dealer... American made.

Triumph did the same thing and if anything their reliability went up. Italians make a beautiful bike, but I'll be damned if they're known for making great electronics (think Lucas with a mustache).

I don't like the implications of yet another manufacturer moving into Asia, but in terms of sheer build quality and reliability it is more likely a positive change than a negative one.

I'm all for some components being made overseas... hell if Japan did the electronics for the bike (which I think Mitsubishi does the new ECU on the MTS and Diavel) great.

the big question is will they be making new tanks with the thai bikes that don't have the expansion problem.  [laugh]

With the "new design" Ducati's, a lot of the parts via subendors are already made in the Far East to minimize manufacturing costs.  The "italian manufactured" content yearly becomes less and less...  although at times that is for the better!

What was the funny line someone posted the other day (I forget the thread, I'll papaphrase), two hours after you ride it you want to ride it again! [laugh]

so,...will ducati's be referred to as rice rockets now?

I call mine a risotto rocket...

based on some of the careless assembly crap i've seen on both my
production ducatis (1990 851, 2004 S4R), i don't really see how
it could be much worse.  example ... guido must have really wanted
to go home on the friday they built the S4R, cause he put on the
left side case cover without sealant.

contrary to the common view, assembly jobs in '3rd world' countries often
result in high quality assembly.  those jobs are prized, and the
workers take them VERY seriously.

Many early Porsche boxters  were assembled in Finland, same plant that assembled Saabs and other cars for years. Assembly is a globally accepted subcontract item nowadays, so Ducati is just joining the ship. Those early boxters had chronic bad engine castings resulting ('99-01) in blown $11K motors at about the 50K mile mark. Not sure who the caster was or if it was from Germany (completed motors were shipped to Finland I believe- somones pipe in) I agree about subbing assembly potentially improving build quality. I wonder what the Japs thought about toyota being assembled in the USA ! Great subject to debate. VW's in Mexico for 20+ years....

Did you hear that Hyundai is the "most american" car mfr in the US today- having a higher percent of their cars assembled in the US than any other mfr. I guess GM assembles lots of cars in Canada. great subject .
Please let's keep at least the motors made in Italia !

If some group of cats in Nortern Nepal decide to start building really incredible bikes but due to the difficult nature of getting parts and a factory built in the mountains and they decide to build in neighboring China as well as outsource some of the parts to India, I'm not gonna complain just so long as they're producing just as nice a bike as everyone else.  As long as Ducati continues to put out the "bad ass on two wheels" they've been building, I'm ok with it. Buying something simply becasue it's specifically made or designed somewhere is ridiculous as is not buying something for the same reason.  That is unless you're staunchly against the principle of the thing or their quality has just totally gone to shit.  I have no problems buying Japanese motorcycles, I'm just enamored with my Duc and the Beemer.  I also prefer buying American too, but there just aren't any affordable 'merican sport bikes out there.  Someone aready said both Hyundai and Toyota are heavily manufactured in the United States which simply reinforces my choice to buy a Toyota, but if their trucks start loosing their well-known quality you can bet your ass I won't think twice about buying something better, regardless of where it's made. 

might just be a factory to self serve the asian nations

Oh come on. If buying a Ducati was a rational choice I can understand some of the arguments ... but it isn't ... and most of us justify the purchase by some other means.

Manufacturing outside Italy would be another cross they would have to bear ... at current pricing that could be a step too far for many. If it suddenly makes them more affordable then that may be a whole different ball-game.

the horse is dead yeah? ok great, I was really hoping the thread title was somebody screwing with the board, but seein' how rumors turn to facts 'round these parts, I'm a little sick in my stomach. for me half of owning a Ducati is the knowledge that it was built with Italian craftsmanship, feels exotic and Ducati's small scale makes the ownership feel intimate, as if I've bought into something special. The other half is knowing that they make a superb product. I get subing out manufacturing for margin's sake, but goddamn Ducati did you really have to? I'm with Raux, when I'm rich and famous and have the free capital to own multiple overpriced Italian motorcycles, they will be pre 2012's

The Thai Triumphs have an engine built and tested in UK before being shipped out to Siam.  I imagine the frames will be done the same way too, as Ducati gets them from Empressa (IIRC) who does the metal working and ships them to Bologna.

I don't know that little Thai folks assembling them will be much different than little Bolognese folks. 

Design will still be in house, major component assembly will still be in Bologna so you won't have to worry about losing the occasional cigarette butt in the crankcase.

Think of it as a pit stop for your bike on its way from italy.

(as my old race mechanic used to say) smaller hands.

HD are now Building bikes in Indian factory ...abieit from knock down kits for the Asian market , BMW have done same thing in thailand for a while , but triumph now have 3 factories in thailand with a 4th coming which will make engines as well , yes the engines are still made in UK but not the frames they are all made in thailand  ....it has not made triumphs cheaper in thailand though because triumph messed up the Tax arrangement for bike sold in Thailand unlike Kawasaki so a bonny is still $18,000 here ($9500 in US) wheras Kawasaki W800 rival will be only $9800 when sold here .Triumphs are treated as imports with massive duties ????dumb idiots as now Kawasaki sell 50 bikes to each one Triumph sell in Thailand even with a massive local demand and love for the British brand , actually ducati sell 4 bikes to every one Triumph sell here already.
__________________
MONSTERMAN

Honda builds Hornets in Italy and even equips them with Ducati voltage regulators.  Most of our Ducatis, though built in Italy, have high Japanese parts content, including some of the reputed less than reliable electronic parts including voltage regulators.  Most our bikes were equipped with Japanese shocks and forks, not to mention carburetors.  Someplace on this board people were complaining about 2011 Monsters switching from Showa forks to the "inferior" Marzocchis.   

Been considering an Aprilia anyway...this just might tip the scale.

Outsourcing sucks.  Tired of it happening everywhere.  Those of you that think you are immune from it need to wake up.

F Ducati And triumph then.  ( I own both products too )

my job is with the appliance industry which a few years ago sent the factory from NZ and australia to mexico and thailand and also italy funny enough , R&D has remained in NZ

warranty rates are now at a record low and getting better and damaged products are well below what they once were

as the owner stated there is no paid unemployment in thailand, if you dont work right there is someone ready to take your spot

labour costs was 1 reason for moving the factory , the other was they all trade in US$ with all the parts suppliers so less of a currency problem which adds to bottom line

dual cab utes have been assembled in thailand for many years and doesnt explain why the toyota hilux costs 50% more than the competition , but like ducati, if you want 1 you have to pay the price

You hit the nail on the head exactly. 

http://www.twowheelsblog.com/post/5713/ducati-to-open-a-factory-in-thailand-workers-worried (http://www.twowheelsblog.com/post/5713/ducati-to-open-a-factory-in-thailand-workers-worried)

Business is business.  If you think for a minute that Ducati care what you think about their production facilities you are sadly mistaken.

More units = lower cost per unit .... usually.  This could result in either lower selling prices or greater profitability for the company.  Either way, as a "fan" of the brand, you win.  You cannot realize unless you've been a long term luster of Ducati motorcycles how lucky you are to be able to buy one today.  On several occasions Ducati was on the brink of oblivion and were rescued at the last minute, often to the long term detriment of the rescuer.

If this makes Ducati a more profitable entity, then viva Ducati.   [moto]  

Was there ever an explanation for these problems?

i'll go out on a limb and say cultural work ethic.

I lived in Bangkok for a while.  Average salary for a Thai worker is around 200 US /month, unless they have a degree, then 300-400/month.  I learned a long time ago that you get what you pay for.  Don't get me wrong, some great stuff is produced in Thailand, its just the quality control that worries me.  

Plenty, but nothing official.  Basically, the problem reports at NUMMI reflected about the same level of reports at other US-based manufacturers.

NUMMI was a joint effort between GM and Toyota.  They assembled Pontiacs and Chevys there too.

Interestingly, the KIA plant in Georgia produces cars with a very low complaint/defect report number.  But they are run by KIA solely and use the Korean-style management system there.

wasn't the NUMMI plant toyota's only union plant?

AFAIK.  It was really run by GM as it was an old GM plant, and only built the Toyota Camry and Matrix.  The Matrix is the same car as the Pontiac Vibe (was) until Pontiac was shitcanned.

Corrected:  They made a whole bunch of Toyota models, including Tacoma trucks..  :P

From wikipedia:

I would be out if my bike was made outside of Italy.  It is part of the attraction IMO.


mitt

yup.. my tacoma was born there.

I can't imagine they would part with tradition, after all this is the glamor of owning one.  BUT if that makes the Strada $5 to $6k cheaper and they pass on the savings I might jump but not until we know for sure the quality is there.  Sad state of affairs but I'm sure much of the decision, if it's true, has a lot to do with their just-in-time inventory that is worse over December and January when everything gets backed up for months and months.  Something needs to be done if they want to grow the brand which they say is their priority, hell service intervals is now 15k (1200 engine) which makes it very attractive to the masses.   My guess is that they will move some of their operations.

I remember reading that there were fewer 'reported' problems with the Toyotas than the Chevys (Corolla/Nova?) even though they were the same car from the same assembly line/plant.  I wonder what they learned from that?

I hope Ducati is not entering their "AMF" phase of growth.  

+1 The game is changing and every auto/motorcycle manufacturer has to re-think its way of doing business.  Opening a plant in Thailand might sound bad for all the reasons given already, it's still a better option than staying in the old ways and watching profit slowly dwindle.  As long as Ducati stays in business, continues to win in races, and makes sweet bikes, I don't think I can ask for anything more.

what if all the major components were assembled in Italy and the final assembly and minor bits done in Thailand?

Actually, they'd be idiots if they didn't care. Brand image is a pretty basic part of marketing anything -- especially a high-end luxury good like an Italian motorcycle. Not saying that it's necessarily a bad idea for Ducati, but I'd wager you a whole lot of money that Ducati brass have thought about and written multiple memos about just what a shift like this will do to customers' reaction to their brand. And that's a bet I'd win.

If, in their estimation, the direct & indirect costs of shifting some production overseas is smaller than the benefits, then they'll do it. Business is business.

As for whether or not I'd buy one, it's kind of a moot point, as the Thai production is to be aimed at Asia, not the U.S. market. But speaking hypothetically, I don't think it would stop me.

To me it is more the VIN number than the origin of parts that matters.  I know it isn't logical, but god dammit, somethings in life should be just because.   I want the final assembly in Italy if they are racing Italian colors.


mitt

that's interesting.

the Thai-built Triumphs show a VIN from UK.  it is a legal trick, I don't know how you make a rolling chassis with a bike, but they do.

I wonder if all this will cause an up-tick in the resale value of our "pure" Italian thoroughbreds  [cheeky]

A Ducati that runs on Green Curry Chicken.  :P


MMMMMM.....Green Curry Chicken.  [drool]

Ducati going down the drain

http://www.motoblog.it/post/27441/du...edono-garanzie (http://www.motoblog.it/post/27441/du...edono-garanzie)

For those who don't read Italiano

A translation ............

Ducati Motor Holding will open a new factory in Thailand, in order to relocate the final stage of production of resources devoted to the Asian market, in order to circumvent the duties.

The unions have called for guarantees on future plans of the company, with the fear of a loss of production in Bologna, for Asia.

Giancarlo Muzzarelli, Regional Minister for Productive Activities, Trade unions and Workers, became involved and reassured -

"Ducati will not reduce its activity in the main plant, as confirmed also by Gabriele Del Torchio, who spoke at yesterday's meeting at the offices of Viale Aldo Moro"

Concluding that the commissioner "has confirmed the commitment to go ahead with the new plant in the face of market changes, we addressed the situation with realism and concreteness. "

So the unions have taken the ball and demand guarantees, with a clear, precise and explicit agreement that will contain all stages of the production cycle in Bologna.

The decisive meeting will take place in January, when meeting with employees to explain word for word the Thai project.

Muzzerelli reassures: "Bologna will do what it does today"

15 Pages of talk on this Ducati Forum

Yeah, yeah, yeah. We know. All very sound and logical.  But the purchase of an overpriced ITALIAN motorcycle is not a buying decision based in sound logic, is it?!  You do it out of.... lust.... or love.... or some other irrational driver of desire.  We're talking Ducati here not make the beast with two backsing Kelvinator.  Business is more than just business when the primary purchasing motivations are emotional, rather than rational. 

What? "Made in Italy" means nothing to the existing and aspiring client base?? 

Yup, me too.

No need for a separate thread.

The really sad thing to me is the twisted, convoluted system that exists where it's cheaper to manufacture the parts for the bike in one place, then ship all the parts to another for actual assembly. 

I would prefer the bikes were still manufactured, assembled, built, etc in Italy, but I don't know if it would damage the brand that much after poking around the web a bit.  Was going to make the point that if Gucci or Prada manufactured in Asia, then they would lose some of their image.  Then I did a quick google search and realized that they DO manufacture a lot of their wares in Asia.   ??? [bang]

Ducati Motor Holding will open a new factory in Thailand, in order to relocate the final stage of production of resources devoted to the Asian market, in order to circumvent the duties.

^^ That's the key statement in the announcement. They aren't doing it to save money in manufacturing, they're doing it so they can sell their bikes cheaper in Asian markets since they apparently won't be hit with an import fee if they're assembled in Thailand.

I don't care where my bike is made as long as I can get parts when/if I need them, and now maybe this means we can actually get parts in the summertime.  ;D

+1!

Which is why it is such a big deal for the Australian market. Because of a trade agreement with Thailand it should make the bikes cheaper in Australia ... for a marque that has traded on exclusivity for so long (Ducati has a significant history in Austrlia from what I have been led to believe) this could be disastrous for resale values.

But if new bike prices do not fall, the market for I-Thai-lian bikes could be significantly diminished ... who is going to pay a significant premium for a Thai bike when a Japanese one is so much cheaper? I would think there will be a seriously long 'adjustment period' with regard to pricing. Considering the Australian dollar has improved more than 50% over the Euro in the last two years for no change in retail pricing levels (yes I know it is more complicated than that) ... I would expect there to be more plundering of the Australian market to come.

Considering there are still quite a few 'Ducatisti' that believe Ducati stopped making 'real' Ducatis when they moved away from bevel drive to rubber bands ... can you imagine the divide once bikes are built in Thailand?

don't worry...
it will be an assembly plant...not a manufacturing plant..
definitely a good news for me in Malaysia  ;D

Well as long as they manufacture it in Italy i guess it would be good,i'm just glad mine was made and assembled in the mother land,everything is being outsourced this days.

Some might feel this is a move away from "Italian" image, but i'm sure the bikes coming out of that assembly plant wont lose any of its character. To put things in perspective, Ducati sells maybe 20,000 bikes a year compared to Bimota's 20 bikes a year (i just pulled these numbers out of my butthole so pls don't quote me on it!), so, as a Ducati-owner, being exclusively Made in Italy is not much of an issue to me.
If cost-cutting measures HAD to be put in place, i'd rather it come in the form of cheaper labor rather than crappier parts.
I think its a step forward for the company, given the growing influence of the Asian consumer.  ... plus I'm all for cheaper bikes.

IMHO there is no upside to this. It's strictly about margins, not building equity in an established Italian marque.

For example. Your new bike drops what, 40% when it comes time to sell it?  And the necessary add-ons required for proper running don't even add to it's value.

Now imagine that depreciation being accelerated through imported content and higher sales volumes (IE Honda). Yes the OEM sells more, but it's devaluing the bike for the owner.

 I know BMW has set up single cylinder production in SE Asia, not sure what other assembly is done there.

I likely won't be getting another new Ducati, but if I do, it had better have 100% Italian content.

Also if one were to make a trip to the factory, I heard they have killer Thai food there.

resale ?? how was the resale value on the 999 you bought , bet the 1st owner is still rolling in his sleep on how much of a bath he took on it

fact the bikes will not become cheaper in aus unless the head office says so

people will buy any bike they want if they like the bike , they will buy a brand if they like the brand after all people buy harleys and lets face it they arent that good a motorcycle

my prediction is low end bikes that are volume will be made in thailand cue base monsters

highend products will stay in italy

who wants to bet that a scooter will be on the way out of a thai factory ?

So is Ducati joining the ranks of litter bank soon?

Ps.  Outsourcing jobs sucks !!!!  Those of u that think u r immune, stop fooling yourselves .

News flash:

Your current Ducati isn't 100% Italian made, designed, and sourced parts.
Neither is mine.

I'm okay with that.

Now, if they start buying Kawasaki Ninja 250's, painting them Red, and slap labels on them saying that they are Ducati 250's, then I have a bone to pick.

You know, like how Jaguar rebadged a Ford Mondeo as a Jaguar X-Type.

When a lesser brand takes a premium vehicle, and makes it one of theirs (Chrysler Crossfire = Mercedes SLK, Chevy/Geo Prism = Toyota Corolla, Pontiac Vibe = Toyota Matrix, etc), that's not so bad, as it usually doesn't dilute the Premium Brand (Mercedes SLK's are still worth double to triple what a Chrysler Crossfire is worth on Cars.com), but its a quality vehicle that the lesser brand couldn't have made, save their souls, at that point in time.

But, when you take a vehicle from the lesser car company, slap some new sheet metal and badges on it, and tell your customer base that this is the new Hotness from Jaguar, then you have a serious bone to pick.

In this case, all the parts for the future Ducati's in the Asian market are still being sourced by Italy. The engines and frames are still being built in Italy, just that all the parts are collecting in Thailand, and being assembled there.

Think of how many of the parts that are included in a current Ducati are initially built in Asia. Forks, wheels, wiring harness, voltage regulator, etc. Think of how much money Ducati will most likely save having all those parts shipped from their originating plants to the Thailand plant instead of first to Italy. Lower initial shipping parts for part suppliers, plus lower or no Import tariffs for their Asian market, equals greater earnings for Ducati, which means more shiny new Ducati's for us for years to come.

The one question I have is how many more bikes will be sold in the Asian market with the change in price due to the removal of the tariffs? How many people in that market would have bought the Ducati of their dreams, but couldn't because of how many extra dollars (change this over to the local currency, if you wish) the bike cost because of the imposed tariffs?

Seriously, how much extra are these tariffs adding to the price of a Ducati in those markets?

BC.

so those of us not in the asian market need not be concerned?  That's my take away. 

Would we be so up-in-arms if they moved final production to the US?

Personally...

I don't want the UAW anywhere near my motorcycle. ;D

Talk about raising costs. [bang] [bang]

Exactly...seems most are missing that point. It is a move to lower the cost of motos in the Asian markets since they're hit with heavy import fees in that region.

I don't think it will affect the US market in any way.

I had an AMF Harley "made in Italy" stamped on it. Sucked on toast.
Guess now Ducati won't have an excuse :)

I am totally OK with parts coming from all over the world if there is good reason for it.  All motorcycle mfg's do it out of necessity - why not use the experts out there instead of trying to do your own.  Brakes from Italy, ignition and injection from Germany, tanks from Italy, suspension from Japan and Sweden  [thumbsup]   But when all that stuff is assembled in some factory that is as generic as a honda factory, then I might as well buy a honda.  I am not saying this is the case yet, but the slope runs downhill pretty quickly.



mitt

I'll bet you $100 that will change in 5 years time.  :P

Honda quality isn't so bad.....with a properly trained and supervised workforce, there's no glaring reason why a MC made in Thailand is destined to become a POS - after all, it's not made in China  [evil]

FWIW -  there are lots of forums/fora here and elsewhere dedicated to things called "mods", wherein Ducati (Monster) owners pregnant dog about their stock Italian-made bikes and lust after way-overpriced, very-little-value-added parts (DP or otherwise) to 'improve performance'....  [bang]

If one must spend a lot of money on an Italian-made bike, then consider the Bimota - it's essentially an extensivley modded Monster right from the box...or just get an MV  [thumbsup]

Please consider the remainder of my post as well.

Additionally, I think the owners of the Ctype Jags also took a beating on resale because they were rebadged Mondeos, per your analogy.

Good resale value didn't even cross my mind when was considering whether to buy my Monster.
Never viewed it as an investment. I simply liked the bike and it was just a question of whether I could afford it or not.

I think 'investment' and 'resale value' should not be used so close together.

Resale value is not really relevant for most people on this forum I would think. But it is an issue for the type that had a 1098 with termis, etc but then 'had to' have the 1198S with traction control, termis, etc, etc.

Which group of people do you think are more important to Ducati?

Yet.


Key statement.... or spin?  Its a nice (and possibly perhaps even somewhat true) rationale for a SE Asian factory..... a line that can be run so as to soothe any "undue" concerns of the existing Italian workforce and worldwide customer base alike:  Nothing will change folks, except that we'll be able to sell in markets where import duties previously made us prohibitively expensive.  A win/win.   But who really thinks that once this production facility is up and running.... once its a fait accompli.... that little-by-little more and more production wont leak from Italy (expensive) to Thailand (cheap)??  Of course they're not gonna come out and say (even if it is their actual intention, which I doubt but I exaggerate to make the point) "Just as soon as we can establish a low-cost facility in Asia we'll be done here in Europe, so start looking for a job now Giuseppe".....  

First step to market/workforce acceptance:  Dont worry.  Nothing bad is going to happen.   Jobs are safe, brand integrity is intact.  This is in addition to, not instead of  ;D [thumbsup].

Maybe.  But I wouldnt bet on it turning out entirely that way in the long term.

no depreciating asset (from the time of purchase) is an investment by definition.  the term is used to allocate a loss over it's use.  this is a hobby we enjoy and I have still not found one hobby that yields a return.  we buy them for the satisfaction, at least I do, but have NEVER considered a return on my purchase when buying a bike.

So to recap the typical forum response, the consensus is the new models that everyone hates and no one will buy will be built somewhere everyone hates so they won't buy them, possibly due to poor quality issues.

These would somehow be worse the the wonderful expandable tanks with no solution in sight, the motors that just wouldn't run right (S2R1K), cracked frames on what was it, the supersport?

Am I missing anything?

My understanding from a friend who deals with production is that Italy isn't an expensive place to make things. Not to say Thailand isn't cheaper (there's always somewhere cheaper), just that Italy is easily cheap enough for the company to compete globally.

Maybe I'm just naive...but I don't think Ducati plans to move their production out of Italy. There seems to be too much national pride with the brand...plus, they just built a new factory in Italy.

...or maybe you just don't require a tinfoil hat. ;)

 [clap]

I don't care where they are made if the price point and the ride is just right.  [moto]

That's the sentiment that made Wal-Mart what it is today. . . . .  [thumbsdown]

The alternative may be no Ducatis at all.  The upside of globalization is that we get access to niche brands, the downside is that labor costs can be exported. 

Ducati still needs to compete with the big Japanese brands to be viable.

Nope, I think you have it summarised in a nutshell  [clap] [laugh] [clap].

I will never buy a Ducati that is not Italian built. Period.

Do you mean Italian assembled? [evil] ;D

As others have posted, many parts on Ducatis are not made in Italy.

Opinions like that sadden me.  As someone pointed out, that's why walmart (which I BOYCOTT) is successful here (and that is not necessarily a good thing).
 [bang]

Yes, it's saddening that people want to get more for their money.

Get more what?  Quantity, quality, wealth transfer, etc.  It is a lot more complicated than just the widget at $X.XX price.

mitt

One of the things that I appreciated most when I lived in Florence was the lack of Walmarts, McDonalds, etc. Maybe they were there and I just wasn't looking for them. It made the experience more "real" to me. Same thing with a Ducati. I love the fact that it's Italian made (aside from the Showa forks and all that...)

On the flip side. Walmart can be convenient.

I think I would choose genuine over convenience any day.

Florence or Firenze?  There are a shitload of Walmarts in Florence, Alabama.

And Italy doesn't have Walmart they have IberCoop and Super IberCoop, which is pretty much the same thing.  Plenty of China-made stuff there. 

You get what you pay for. Period.
A $5 shirt isn't as nice as a $50 shirt. You might be able to get 10 of them, but in the end you still just have a drawer full of crappy $5 shirts.

I doubt that any cost savings Ducati may see from it's new plant in Thailand would be transferred to the end-user (us).
We'd be paying the same constantly-inflating rate for a lesser product.

Made in Italy still means something.
Made in Thailand doesn't.

1) sometimes you just need a $5 shirt.

2) how much better is a $300 shirt than a $50 shirt?

Not enough better!  ;D

I agree with the original sentiment though. Bana Republic shirts are much nicer than Old Navy ones.  ;)

Remember china doesn't have to figure out how to markets its crap, walmart does it for them for free at the expense of jobs jobs jobs.  Why do you think manufacturing shut down here?  The likes of f'n walmart and consumers who are ignorant to understand the ramifications of that.  Let's not talk about walmart and how it is a burden to cities in terms of health care etc and getting free infrastructure $ help to come in.  Look at the big picture ppl and not the so called savings u think u are getting but r paying for it in other ways.

Oh as for Ducati brand name value, it will  for sure  go down due to the Thai factory.  F that!

Positives: Asian market bikes tend to be smaller displacement, so there's a chance for a lighter, small displacement bike out of this (supermono?)

Negatives: Dilutes the brand.

Neutral: Build Quality. It's final assembly... If an idiot like me can assemble a Ducati so can some dude in Thailand.

Single 250cc Ducati? Honda can make ugly cars, because they sell the heck out of their motorbike line.

If Ferrari decided to assemble their cars in Thailand would people think differently of the car? 


Italy isn't immune to Wal-mart-ization.

A few years ago we visited family.  Stopped for lunch in Bologna.  Ate at a small street side cafe.  The owner served us and we had a pleasant conversation with him.  For $8 per person we ate well.  (I had penna alla vodka with fresh farm bacon, it was amazing and a glass of wine.)  Across the street was a McDonald's.  The line was out the door mostly young people.  A meal (burger, fries and soda) was just over $11.

I wonder just what they will make there.  We have mentioned an assembly plant or a new line of bikes for the 3rd world.  Or are they going to start making monsters and superbikes there?  I hate what triumph did by moving its classic line to the orient.  Why by a bonnie replica if it ain't a brit bike.  It's like a factory authorized knock-off. 

Firenze. Can't say that I remember seeing any Ibercoop. Then again, I was studying art and not consumerism. Either way my opinion still stands. Ducati made in Italy makes me proud to own the bike and I'd like to keep it that way.

Walmart tried to move into Germany and were drummed out. I think their sales were so low due to the German mentality of quality over price. Things are expensive here, but damn nice stuff. Walmart couldn't sell a German a cheap piece of crap when the local markets had quality stuff for a slightly higher price.

^^ Fixed  ;D.

China doesnt need to market its crap.  Cheap will always have a ready mass-market.  And I'm not immune either, I can buy cheap crap when I feel that its adequate enough for the price.   My motorcycle purchases however are prompted by... um... tissue other than the hip-pocket nerve. 

It looks that story is allready over and I am so disappointed and angry. Tradition is something that shouldn't be covered with dollars or euros. After 28 years on bike there are no more brands which could give me that feeling..........you know, that my bike is not one of "millions". This year, we were in Borgo Panigale, visiting Ducati factory and i said to my wife, after we park our two Ducatis on parking lot in front of museum - how many bikes have luck to go on place where they was born ????
Owning a Ducati for me is not just having a bike. It is a lifestyle. When someone is ready to pay for that, he should be treated with respect. My wife which is really in love with her bike says that if this is true, there will be no more Ducatis in our garage. Damned CEO-s and greedy management, who gives them right for selling out brand which has made history. Today is sad day for me, I know many people will just say that I overreact, but in what world do we live? Is there anything what will not sell out for good amount of money? As R.E.M. will say - It's The End Of The World As We Know It

So what will you buy next? Aprilia, MV, NCR.

Japanese vehicle without character, made for going from point A to point B. For 6000 Euros. Without modding and spending thousands of Euro on special parts. Plain vehicle. If this is a goal of Ducati management, they did it. Bravo to them. But, you know what ? I am not the only one.

Culture is somewhat exportable, which means we can still get the same quality in thai ducatis (smirk) but since the design and engine build will still be in bologna, how can we crticize?

I didn't read throught the 7 pages so this might have been said: maybe this will increase the re-sale value of the pure blood bikes.


$ saved by ducati will be passed along just like K2 did after moving its Washington state plant to china....not

Asked and answered.

They wont be building any small bike initially it will be monsters and superbikes as thats what the Asian market wants ....come to Thailand and see the numbers of HDs, on the roads its huge ......Ducati come in 4th after The japs big sports bikes and cruisers the BMW ....Triumph come a poor 5th as Ducati  sell 3 bikes to one triumph .Potential growth in these markets is HUGE wheras Europe and USA are saturated and in decline.

Demand In India, Malaysia, Australia ,Phillipines,China  for these bike is massive but high import tarriffs are a problem but making the bikes in ASEAN  makes them 20-50% cheaper once the tariffs are removed....its happened already with cars like the Ford focus before that happened the focus was not competetive in Thailand but now its on sale and is the same price as competitors and doing well.

Kawasaki led the way with the ER6 in Thailand its now a bargain as it sell for same price as USA or Europe , they have sold 30,000 in 4 years when befor they only sold 300 in 2 years and now they are also expanding local big bike production .Honda ,Yamaha ,Susuki ,HD ,KTM and BMW are also following in a smaller way .Expect more in future .....Apprillia would be nice .

Triumph are the losers as they make the bikes in Thailand but screwed up their Asean Import License so the bikes have to be sold as Imports and they are Too expensive by 40% so they sell 300 bikes a year in Thailand when they could easily have sold 3000.

Will Ducati be as stupid ??????/

Interview with Gabriele del Torchio (http://www.sportrider.com/news/146_1101_ducati_ceo_gabriele_del_torchio_talks_about_ducati__rossi__and_the_future/index.html)

Thailand.. Indonesia..  what's the difference?   [roll]

I know this was a rhetorical question ... but I would think in terms of build quality the difference would be HUGE.

how so? its just outsourcing to another country. Quality Control is still a function of the manufacturer.  Any idiot can bolt a bike up. Who makes the parts is the key.

Perhaps I should have said 'could be HUGE'.

I am far from an expert on these things but as far as I know Thailand now has quite a successful industry based on this sort of thing which provides the Quality Control you speak of. I can't say the same about Indonesia ... so the risk on quality would not be the same I feel.

With regard to 'just outsourcing' I certainly wouldn't want to buy a Ducati that was put together by me.

                                                     
I wouldn't buy one put together by He Man...he's not an idiot...he's learning to be an engineer and they should never pick up tools, but stick to pencils and slide rules.                      :-*                                 

On the other hand I believe a person in Thailand, or Indonesia can be trained to do assembly as well as some one in Italy.

I wonder how long "products destined exclusively for that geographic region" will last once they figure out how much more $$$ they save?

First it is products destined exclusively for that geographic region, then it is small displacement monsters...  next thing you know only SBKs will be made in Bologna. 

The problem with all manufacturing, is that there will always be countries with lower standards of living. It happen with Mexico and will eventually happen to China. these countries have gazillions of people who have nothing and will do anything to get ahead. Once they actually taste the good life, then they want more and eventually they will want higher wages and companies will have to move production again. You can actually see it here in the USA. Many people who made great wages for many years are now willing to work for portions of what they used to.

i was rolling my eyes because i think the translation is wrong.

^^ Exactly.  Thin edge of the wedge..... "The market accepted that.... Now lets take it up (down?) another level....". 

Also today USA Caterpiller  CAT announced they will be constructing a factory in Thailand to open 2012 to build earth moving equipment for SE asian markets so they can compete with local producers Komatsu,Hitachi,Daewoo and Kubota who dominate these markets.

All emerging economies are not equal with respect to quality - it isn't "just up to the manufacturer", regardless of what the business magazines say.

The host countries culture (honesty, work ethic), education (literacy, language), and infrastructure (factory tool and equipment support, security, logistics)  all play a part and I am sure there are more aspects as well. 

mitt

So, in the future people will be able to get Duc parts in August?  ;D

(http://liveimages.bikesales.com.au/bikesales/general/content/gc5487541923267551614.jpg)

Cycle News story about new Duc plant and moving some production to Thailand. Hope this isn't a derby.

http://www.cyclenews.com/articles/industry-news/2011/03/05/ducati-building-new-factory (http://www.cyclenews.com/articles/industry-news/2011/03/05/ducati-building-new-factory)

 :o :o :o
Forget Thailand!


Ducati is building a second building 15% larger than the current office/factory/warehouse?  Right in Borgo?

It doesn't say they are demolishing the original either, so it is additional capacity??

WOW

maybe the added storage capacity is to store items we want to buy from December to February and we can't get until April?  [evil]

   
   For better or for worse, we live in a global economy.  Internationalize or die.

(http://images.paraorkut.com/img/pics/images/s/serious_cats-14338.gif)

   Ha, very funny and very clever.
   
  Well I did state the bleeding obvious.

   note to self . . .
                                                                          

;-)