Ducati Monster Forum

I usually feel well updated about the possibilities for the modest stock 620/695/S2R800 forks,
but I can't remember talking about this Bitubo kit....

Anyone else have first, second or third hand experience?

At about $460 it could be a bargain, even though they're not adjustable other than for preload.

http://www.carpimoto.com/EN/Bike_Ducati_Monster-S2R-800/Specific/Page_2/34513_D0022ABB09-Bitubo-Fork-Cartridge-Kit-Ducati-Monster-620.htm (http://www.carpimoto.com/EN/Bike_Ducati_Monster-S2R-800/Specific/Page_2/34513_D0022ABB09-Bitubo-Fork-Cartridge-Kit-Ducati-Monster-620.htm)

it only has preload adjustment so pretty pointless.

Not if it actually works  [thumbsup] (as opposed to stock)

That much money though for just preload?

and, I assume, a good compression/rebound unit, which is where it hurts the most on stock forks.

The area where the stockers suck so badly is damping. That and the springs are progressive rate. Most here that upgrade the forks never touch the compression and rebound adjustments on their fully adj forks anyway. So really, for $450-$500 or so, this is a good deal. I'm pretty sure it's better than the stock setup, since everything is better by default.
I read the specs, it has the Bitubo compression unit and linear rate springs. If you're around the 75-80kg weight spec for this it looks like a good upgrade option. All you do is refit the internals, no brake swaps or triple clamp swaps needed. The GP suspension kit for these forks that offers full adjustability is ~$1300. SBKs are a big hassle due to all the other parts you have to get to go with them. I think stopintime should try this kit and report back!

 400$ish+labor/oil puts this kit at a pretty good compromise point for those not wanting to do just springs or go for a full sbk kit but I think if you scour ebay and the forum classifieds you can find that SBK setup for only a bit more, and even though you may have to buy new calipers and rotors, that will be an upgrade too. all in all, I think id rather spend 500-900$ for a quality SBK build than 400$ for crappy forks made marginally better.

If I'm going to spend dough to replace something, im going to replace it with something thats worth wild, or find the cheapest way to make it worth my wild. Thats just my personal opinion.

$100 bucks for a set of springs, a hack saw for preload spacers, and some oil to control the damping. most people would be very very satisfied.

for S2R1000 forks + valve and Springs = $700 bucks drops right in. $300 bucks more and you get 3 way adjustibility

How much is your "wild" worth.

My forks are done with amazing results. I'd love to do a write up, but the shop won't tell me what they did. All I know is that it works very well and the Öhlins guys at WDW thought, when testing, it had an Öhlins cartridge kit.

So, it is possible to do magic to the stock forks, but not many suspension shops know how to.

I believe that most of the stock Marzochi riders leave it alone because it's just to difficult to understand why/what/how.
Even a "simple" spring & oil upgrade seems to be more than most riders can handle.
Maybe this kit is simple and affordable (?) enough to help those riders make a decision.

If you think that's a good deal...  Well, I've got some beach front property in Nebraska I'd like to talk to you about.

I've got race tech valves and springs in my S2R1k forks. You can pick up S2R1k forks for $250ish. Springs $100, and valves $150 IIRC. Labor cost vary. So minimum $500 bucks for a respectable setup. Some people hate Racetech valves, and if that is the case, you have other options including Ohlins GP and Bitubo.

GP kits need machining of the lower leg on the marzochi forks to get it to work.
The matris ktis still need to machine the lower to get it to work unless you have the Showa forks (S2R1k, S4R..etc)

I happen to like the adjustbility, my compression valve is fully open right now since im riding in subfreezing temps. I've added and taken rebound off a bunch of times due to cargo for multi day trips. but thats just me. Im sure the Bitubo kit is awesome for its price, but non adjustibilty to me is a huge turn off when dropping more money than just springs. Granted most people dont touch em anyway.

^^^ I guess it's worth your "wild"   :P

I'm pretty sure that's not the case. They should be accessible from the top - there are three separate adjusters anyway. Might be wrong, but that's my understanding...

Dude, I'm just saying...  A thousand bucks for what you described is pretty damned pricey.  I put 999 forks (sprung to my weight), with a fresh rebuild and SBK valves on my bike, and it cost me something like $400.

does that include milling/shimming the triples and whatever you did for the brakes? were you able to use your stock bars or did you add clip ons?

No, the cost I mentioned was just for the forks, but included the internal parts, the work done to them and the shipping to get them from New England to Hawaii.  I did a lot of other work to the bike at the same time: speedymoto triples, 999 brakes and BST wheels.

(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z53/b_upton/DSC_0007-1.jpg)
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z53/b_upton/DSC_0005-1.jpg)
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z53/b_upton/DSC_0010-1.jpg)
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z53/b_upton/DSC_0013-1.jpg)
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z53/b_upton/DSC_0020.jpg)

Theres a fat  25mm (or similar) bolt at the bottom. It fits stock showa adjustables but the marzochi uses much smaller bolts.


DRKWNG. You cant say a 999 fork modification is $400 bucks, cause you missed a lot of things. its usually upwards of $700ish after you factor in all needed mods. BTW: you have 749 forks not 999 forks. :P

Bike looks good btw, i always had a thing for sport clsssics, but their seating position is like willingly submiting to torture for me.

Whats worthwhile to me? people seem to raved about GP stuff. You can sometimes find a whole cartridge on wera for $800 bucks. thats a freggin deal since its drop in for SBK and Showa 3 ways.

when I was researching all the options to upgrade the forks on my s2r800  I found about 4 realistic options that ranged from 400-600$.

 the s2r1k was the most direct replacement but were hard to find, sbk required new calipers and machined/shimmed triples (also new clip ons in my case) and were the most expensive, gsxr required calipers, spacers and lines, they were easy to find and pretty cheap but the spacer machining put me off of it. then there was st3/st4 which gave adjustability but would need upgraded valving for my purposes which put me off of it before I could see if there was anything else it would need.

in the end I lucked out with a buddy pulling some strings at GP suspension

No, you mentioned the cost of "drop-in" S2R1K forks being in the ball-park of a seven hundred dollars after all the springs and valves.  I was commenting that the price you mentioned was quite high compared to the price that you can get SBK forks for; i.e. four hundred.

Drop in was the point.
The price i set out is a realistic price including labor to install valves and springs. Your $400 forks were priced at what someone wanted to sell them for. I can't say 749 forks with aftermarket valves and springs cost $400 everywhere. If you priced it out realistically, it would cost the same $700 bucks depending on the cost of valves. + the extra cost of getting them on the bike.

getting cheap forks is great but its even better when you can put them on the bike.

 when you add in the costs to make the sbk forks work it gets at or over 700$ pretty easily.

Sure it does.  My point was simply that better deals can be found if you look for them hard enough.

i have a question here for you guys if i could please, you both mention calliper changes in your sbk conversions. elsewhere i have read others saying that they didnt need any changes to the wheel end, simple bolt up. namely http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=41414.msg740226#msg740226 (http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=41414.msg740226#msg740226) between the 7th and 8th photo.


Cheers Clint.

It depends on the fork, 999 has radial mount and 998 doesn't.

No they didn't.  999Ss and Rs had radial, but regular 999s had axial mounted brakes.

Axial mounts are the same through out hte ducati line up for the later years. the 695 brakes will work on the fork, provided you have the adapter. S2R1000 brakes will work and so will any of the SBK Axials IIRC.

999S from 05+ are radial. all 04 including S and R were axial as well.

soooo if i have this right,

any of the 65mm axials callipers will bolt right onto the 998 or 999 axial mount forks. Then on the wheel end if i keep the 10mm offset monster rotors ill have to run some 5mm rotor spacers to over come the sbk forks being spaced for the 15mm offset rotors the sbk's used. then if i use 999 forks ill need a sbk guard or an adapter if i want to keep the monster guard and then up top ill need some 0.5mm sleeves for the bottom triple and to bore the top triple to 53mm. then use clip ons or big handle bar risers to clear the longer forks and finally re-spring the forks for my light weight combined with the lighter front weight distribution of the monster compared to the sbk and i should be in heaven yeah?

piece of piss.. haha  [moto]

true. i was just referring  to the examples he provided, not trying to give specific model examples. [thumbsup]

Almost all of the posts in this thread discuss the alternatives, which often, I suspect, complicate things
to a point where many riders loose track and give up.

It's not that I'm against finding good affordable DIY solutions, but there is a need for plug & play upgrade products.
Or maybe I'm mistaken - perhaps most Monster riders just don't care about performance upgrades?

Hmmm - in fact I haven't heard or seen a Bitubo or Matris story in a very long time and compared to the total number of Monsters, the number of upgraded bikes must be very low?

999 axial forks with fresh rebuild and Ohlins UES kit ($800), plus triple clamps(Stockers Bored/Shimmed, Included w/ Forks), plus tapered steering bearings ($40), plus clip-ons ($150), plus headlight brackets (CNC Italy, used to lower headlight to accomodate clip-ons, $75) plus spacers and new hardware ($60) on my S2R800.

That's about $1125 total for epic forks.
Installed myself, stock brakes still intact and working fine (until i save up some cash to get those 999 calipers from Theo...)

In my personal opinion, it doesn't seem like it matters what route you take on the S2R800/M695 fork upgrade.
In the end, anything that goes further than a respring/new oil is going to cost somewhere in the region of $1000 with all the proper bits for your weight.

For most of us, myself included, a simple respring/new oil for a few hundred bucks is probably sufficient, so long as you dont put on a shit load of weight.
Ask yourself if you really need the adjustability...

Half of the reason i went with the 999 forks was because they were fresh. I wouldn't have to pay someone else to open them up, because i don't want to open forks up myself.
I could just buy them, and put them on.

It was like, okay, ~$200 for springs and oil... then probably about $200 + shipping two ways to RaceTech to have them worked.
For another $400, I had fresh forks that i didn't have to send any where or wait around for....
Easy choice for me.

I think it has more to do with the fact the a cartridge kit is more intimidating then replacing the whole fork. most riders have never seen the inside of a fork, but replacing a fork? thats like 16 bolts and few tie downs, its do-able.

 plus theres the wow factor, "I have bitubo cartridges" sounds way less cool then "I have superbike forks"

The Bitubo's are sprung for 165lbs rider.  I wonder if they can include stiffer springs for the same price.

"can be supplied on demand" it says.

Ask them and find out?

I love threads like this, lots of info i can use in here. I've been pondering what to do, starting with the front end, to reduce brake dive and also improve comfort on some of the bone jarring - teeth rattling
sections of my commute.

I got a set of S2R1K adj Showa's in hand, but am intrigued by the Bitubo kit.

For the Showas I know I would need clip-ons, which will be a plus (adjustable sweep more than lowered), BUT, big but, must accept my bar heaters and soon to buy wind guards for cold ends of the riding season - stock bars will work for those (heaters already installed for a year) - still checking clip on compatability. Thinking the Bitubo kit will be better than the Showas until I rework them.

I bottom out the stockers (I'm <170lbs) and they are harsher than i want, to boot. I'll have plenty of questions in the near future, keep these threads coming.

i'd like to go back and ask if anybody has checked with Traxxion about drop in cartridges for the non-adjustable forks?

Additionally, is it possible to contact Ohlins USA in NC and see if the Ohlins 30mm kit can be retrofitted into the non-adjustable forks? They have one fork to rebound, other do compression - all adjustments done via the caps. If the caps can be put onto those non-adjustable forks, then you'd be pretty much set.

Since I'm not included in the groups of bike owners with those style forks, I haven't had much experience with the fork setups you guys have had to endure.


fwiw, i'd agree with He Man in his assessment of options for the front end:

3-way adjustable forks from a post 2000 monster (which has a 25mm hollow axle and the 65mm caliper mounts, and uses the same axle wheel setup).  Direct drop in for the forks themselves: no change to triples, no change to wheel, speedometer pickup (if applicable), fender, brakes, etc.

Using 749/999 forks with the 65mm mount will require either spacers or a 749/999 axle, and a different front fender. This will also require a change in triple clamps to adapt to the different diameters (bore top triple/shim lower, OR order up new triples from IMA SrL or SpeedyMoto)

Using 748-916 era forks will require the same changes to the triples, and an adapter to go from 40mm caliper mount to 65mm caliper mount. No change to fender, no change to speedo pickup if applicable, no change to axle or wheel.

Using 748-996-998 forks: require the same changes to the triples, no adapter for brakes, no change to fender, no change to speedo pickup if applicable, no change to axle or wheel.

Using 999R/749R - 848/1098/1198 Forks: Requires new wheel, new axle, new rotors, new radial calipers, changes to triples as noted earlier, changes to speedo pickup if applicable.

all that said, any forks you pickup to put on your bike probably needs fresh fluid put in and at least a look at the springs to see if they are going to be the correct for setting sag. Not always required, but need to be investigated. Valving on the SBK forks are better from the get go, but is harsh on the Showa's. You don't have to revalve, but its a great opportunity while the forks are off the bike.

The cost is much higher when converting to SBK forks, even if you get a "deal" on the forks (deals always make me leary about the straightness and condition of the slider and seals), because of the work needed for the triple clamps. Something additional to be considered is whether modifications will need to be made for clip-on owners, as they'll need to go from 50mm to 53mm.

An advantage of going to SBK forks is the number of options available for revalving and cartridges. There's RaceTech, Traxxion Dynamics, Ohlins, Bitubo, FG Gubellini, Matris, etc etc etc (the list is long!)

A M, I got Traxxion's AK-20s on my 800S working on the Marzocchi fork shells.  When I ordered them they sent me cartridges that were too long.  I think they sent me cartridges for the SS800.  I talked to them and they asked me to return their kit and my forks and they would make a cartridge the right size and install it on their nickel.  Turnaround time was around one week. 

I'm very happy with them.  They have preload adjust and compression adj. on one fork and rebound adj on the other.  Preload was perfect and I haven't had to touch it.  I run it with the comp loose on the slab and halfway on twisties.  Only other mod I would make would be some teflon bushings for less stiction and a more rigid triple.

By now they should know the difference between the Monster forks and the SS.  This only matters if you are going to do the installation yourself.  If you send it to them, they know what to do, and you don't have to clean up the fork oil from your garage floor.

preload on both, right? compression on one, rebound on the other?

Yes.

very cool. Price was the normal 1k?

Yes, and it came with stickers too!

Maybe I'm misreading battlecry, but what forks/bike are you refering to?  Like AM was saying, if I could plop in a couple of new cartridges and have all the adjustments external, 1k is a pretty easy decision.  Combine that with a set of 999 calipers and that would be a pretty nasty front end  [thumbsup]

I'm an idiot.  Supersport :)

They do list the S2Rs on the site.  Plus....

"Some bikes dont come with external preload, and rebound damping adjustment. We have made a special kit for those models, with a beautiful set of replacement fork caps with these features added in. The caps are an additional cost to the AK-20 total cost.  Some popular bikes that get this added feature are: Suzuki SV650 (all year models), Honda VFRs (optional), and Triumph Thruxton. We can also custom make these parts for other models of bikes upon request."

For a drop in kit, not to shabby.

They are good folks too. They were very easy to work with when I wanted a Penske shock with torrington bearing, spring rate, etc, and they answered my hundreds of questions.

Jarvicious, yer no idiot.  They sent me SS kit by mistake, but they make some to fit the Monster.  They got confused with the measurements.  My 2003 M800S now has AK-20s inside the standard, nonadjustable Marzocchi shells.  They should be able to work S2Rs the same.  I got the adjustable fork caps too. 

I agree with you the AK-20s with 999 calipers would make a great front end.  I found the standard goldline dual rattling rotors fine for my riding, except for some difficulty modulating them at very slow speed (which could also very well be my lack of skill) 

a m, I agree with you on their service.  Very happy with them, and the torrington bearing and preload collar saved me some weight in the rear suspension.  I'm looking at your mods with a lot of interest, as I think I would prefer a more rigid triple to improve the handling.  I was surprised how flexible the fork assembly is.  I had the bike in the front chock and put some pressure on the bar and could see the the front flexing, no need for a dial gauge.     

hold on - supersport kit meaning supersport legal (racing) (as i understand it - i don't know all the rules, i'm just a spectator), not SS as in Ducati 800SS - i think we may be getting things confused a bit.


for the front end, a stiff/rigid lower triple is the key maker. the newest IMA triples for the SBKs are really impressive and using lots of research and development. the top allows some designed-in/controlled flex to reduce chattering, while the lower is rigid (though machined to be lightweight). Also, it has adjustable offset - you can change it at your whim. Labor intensive whim, but whim.

The IMA triples I have really are well made. I have a set on both M900's. They make them for the pre-02 stem-style and the post-02 stem style, and have accommodations for bars (either tapered bars from the bigger disp monsters or the normal bars from the smaller disp monsters). Same offset as the triples on the 2002-newer Monsters, like the M800 / S2R

AND, if you have an ancient monster (98-99) AND you happen to have the old school fairing / brackets, you can mount it up because the triple clamp bolt location is the same as the stockers on the old Monsters. And it has the mount holes for the brake manifold if you still have the 3-line front setup, and mounts for the old school monster turn signal bracketry.

And you can get them bored for any fork diameter you can imagine. All the way up to 58mm for something like.. hell.. I don't know... top shelf marzocchi?

I guess it would be new 999 calipers and new rotors for me.  Still running the stock S2R800 baby calipers with ze flat rotorz.  :(  This may be a Christmas treat for Jarv  [thumbsup]

Looks like I'll be going with the AK-20 setup when the time comes to upgrade my wife's M620.  She's happy with the front end as-is, so all of our current mod budget is going into my bike, but at some point I'm gonna be overcome with guilt and just go ahead with new fork internals and a better shock...

I do really wish that Bitubo had one of their kits with the super-smexy fork caps available for the non-adj forks, though.  I think that they'd look right at home on her red Italian beauty.