Ducati Monster Forum

My bike needs to be set up, as I'm probably 40-50 lbs heavier than the previous owner. The front end feels really mushy, but being my first bike, I'm honestly not really sure what it should feel like. I do know that it's not right for me, though. I don't need it to be the most aggressive track pregnant dog ever, but I want to be happy with the way it handles for the next couple of riding seasons, after my skills and experience grow.

The bike's a '99 M750, bone stock suspension. I'm 5'10, 215 lbs.

I'm just gonna throw a few questions out...

I need to keep the budget as reasonable as possible. I just don't have the $$ to throw at a full Ohlins upgrade. I'm guessing a re-spring front and back w/ new fork oil would be the most bang for the buck? Any other options?

I'm pretty good with all things mechanical, but I'm gonna leave this work to the pro's. Can anyone give me a general idea what I'll need parts wise and a rough idea how much $$ I'll need to throw at it?

Is this work any shop can do, or do I need to take it to the dealership? They're almost 2 hours away, and I have no idea what kind of reputation their service dept has.

Any recommendations for a shop in the Knoxville/East TN or Charlottesville/Richmond/Tidewater VA areas?.

a spring swap is very easy to do, theres a few tutorials floating around the internet. (check tutorials). i'd give it 2 haynes manual wrenches.

$100 for springs, $30 for oil (thats top notch oil, most oils are $15 bucks)

Does your bike have Marzocchi or Showa forks? 

How do I tell the difference?


And where's a good place to get springs online?

If you look on the inside of the lower legs there will be an S cast in if it's Showa.

I've heard that the hex on the top is 17 or 19mm on Showa with Marzocchi being more like 28mm.

Race-tech has a good selection of springs for both, and other internal mods for Showa

(http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d45/Gibsonchild/P1010344.jpg)


This is all the info I could find on my forks. I guess this means that they are Marzocchi? Sorry for all the hand holding. All this shit's new to me.

I second the Race-Tech recommendation.  Good folks to deal with.

A simple spring and oil change does require something to hold the spring down on the damper rod whilst you remove the fork caps, but no biggie, there.  A suitable tool can be made from a small piece of steel or aluminum plate and a few minutes of your time.  You're not removing the damper rod, so that's not a problem.  You'll also need a tool to set fork oil level.  This can be done with a tape measure or steel scale, but it's easier with Race Tech's tool.  The tool looks like a horse syringe, but with an adjustable length "needle".  Basically, you overfill the fork and use the tool to suck out the excess oil down to the correct level via the tool's adjustable "needle."

It's best to do this with the forks off the bike so you can invert each leg and exercise the damper rods to drain as much fluid as possible.  Also, the forks should be vertical when measuring the oil level, which is difficult with the forks on the bike.  As long as you have a suitable front stand or can suspend the bike by some other means, this is the best option IMHO.

Changing shock springs does usually require a spring compressor.  Any local shop that has one will suffice.  You could buy your own, but you'll probably only use it this once, so it makes better sense to just pay someone who has one to do this for you.  Many automotive shops have strut spring compressors that will suffice for this purpose....if you happen to have friends who works on cars but not bikes that might be useful.

A final note on working inside forks.  Just like with engine internals, KEEP IT CLEAN!!!  Any debris that enters the fork legs can foul up the damping, so don't let anything that ought not be inside the forks get in there.

As to dealers in the Knoxville/East Tennessee region, you could try Destination Motorcycles if you're adventurous.  I knew several of the folks who worked there when Milt ran the joint, but I don't know anything about them, now.  They used to be in Lenoir City, but they moved to Kingston Pike over near Lovell Road last I heard.  I liked Milt greatly, but I never liked their service department very much.  Things may have changed with the change in ownership, though.   I do trust the folks at Myers over in Asheville, NC, and can recommend them if you don't mind driving a bit.  They're on Sweeten Creek Road near Biltmore House if you know much about that area.  There's also a new dealer in Chattanooga, TN called Pandora.  They're on Hwy 58N a couple of miles off of Hwy 153 if you're interested in them.  I know a few folks who've had their bikes serviced over there to good reviews, but I have no personal experience with them.

Well, Destination is the "local" dealer I'm referring to. Never heard anything good about the old service dept. Don't know anything about them since they moved in w/ Ultimate Powersports (or whoever it was) except that the new showroom kicks ass.

Asheville is about the same distance for me 1.5-2 hours. Chattanooga is 3.5 hours, a little too far.

The cities in VA I listed are places that I frequent every few months, so it would be no problem for me to take the bike to those areas.  


The main problem I have w/ working on it myself is that I don't have anywhere indoors to do the work. I was renting a heated storage unit, but it's getting too full to use as a garage now.

i would say springs now, and keep your eye out for a deal on adj showas from a 94-99 M900 (will need new springs too )

Just pull the forks off, and do it inside. all you need is a bucket. to pour out the oil. It shouldnt take you more than 30 mins t pull the forks off, 1hr if youve never done it before. how cold is it outisde? (its warm right now, but usually about 15-20 over here).

I'll add the obvious: Have you checked the front tire pressure? That's the most common cause of a vague-feeling front end

I'd call the folks over at Myers, then, if you want it professionally done.  They're good folks, and that dealership has been there since the stone age.  It's small (though they were talking about expanding), but they know what time it is with reference to Ducati motorcycles.

As I said earlier, it's a simple job, but if you're not comfortable doing it yourself just haul it to Asheville.

You located somewhere up I-81, then?  Maybe take 26 across to Asheville?  Maybe up around Mountain City or something?  Just a guess.   [moto]

I'm in Greeneville. It's halfway between Morristown and Johnson City on I-81.

In all honesty, I'd rather do the work myself. I'm no stranger to a wrench, but I've always heard that getting a great setup on a bike is akin to black magic. I know I can swap out springs and shit like that, but I wouldn't know where to start making adjustments after all that.

Post up and we'll work you through it after you get the springs installed.  About all you can do with the suspension you have is set spring sag, ride height, and fork height (by dropping the triple clamps on the fork legs) anyway.  It's not "black magic", but simple geometry.

The springs rates are chosen for the weight of bike plus rider.  Front sag is set to a known value.....approximately 25mm for "sprited" riding, or a little more (30 to 35mm) for a cushier ride.  If you have "nonadjustable" suspension this is often done via tubes installed between the springs and fork caps, otherwise it's done via screw adjusters through the fork caps.  Rear sag is set to a known value....approximatley zero for spirited riding or a little more (10 to 20 mm) for a cushier ride.  This is done via the shock's threaded spring collar.

The ride height and fork height are set depending upon the desired handling characteristics of the bike.  If it's difficult to turn the bike you can raise the rear in increments until it suits you.  If you top out the adjustment on the rear (your bike should have factory ride height adjustment where the "wishbone" connects to the swingarm) and it's still slow steering, you drop the front in increments until it feels well, insuring that the bike isn't unstable at speed...which for most Ducatis takes quite some time to achieve.  My Supersport is up nearly 25mm out back (via the ride height adjustment on the Ohlins shock I fitted) and down 19mm out front (forks stick up through the triples) to make it turn reasonably well.

Damping changes are more difficult to explain well, but still aren't rocket science, so when you fit adjustable suspension we'll help you through that, too.  One word on adjustable Showas, though, is that they aren't terribly adjustable in their stock form.  They can, however, be made well adjustable, unlike the Marzocchis, via Race Tech gold valves.

I've been to Greeneville, TN for US Desmo's Ducks Head West rally.  Neat little town......"little" being the operative word, there.

Word.

Think I'll give it a go whenever I get all the shit together.

they look like the old 40mm marzocchi - are you sure it's a 99 model?  take a photo of the outside of the fork leg showing the axle and brakes.  in short they're crap.  there is no cartridge, just old style damping in an insert as far as i can tell that is held inside the tube.  you can get it out by removing the loever section (alloy bit that holds the caliper, axle, etc) and then machine off the rolled edge that holds them in, but it's not worth the effort.  they have practically no compression damping until the last 1/3 of travel.  the std springs are dual rate (not progressive) and the soft bit is all lost in the sag, so you get a shit load of sag then an overly hard spring.

you can respring them, but they'll still dive a lot with the right weight springs.  i wouldn't bother with them personally.  i wouldn't bother getting a set of adjustable showas either, as you're paying for the adjustability that you'll probably never use in practical.  and they need to be resprung and revalved too, they're not that nice std.  plus they're the cheaper showa where the adjustable rebound system is poorly designed.  the good showa - from the sbk models - need different triple clamps.

my 97 600m had the marzocchi which i tried resprining, but the dive still shitted me so i fitted some non adj 41mm showa from an early 900 monster, same as the early 750ss.  not sure how easy they are to get now.  there seems to be a lot of 43mm showa from later 600, 620, 750 and 800m on ebay fairly cheap that are a good basis for reworking.  i sent my cartridges out for revalving and cut down some original springs i had to give a 0.85 rate (from memory) because i have all the stuff, but even buying some and sending them off to a suspension expert for a respring and revalve is a good idea, as then you're just swapping forks when you get them back.

if the person doing the revalving does a good job there's no need for adjustment unless you're going to combine rough road riding with fast track work.  a well set up shim stack is a well set up shim stack, and it'll perform well in most conditions.  some dealers have guys who are suspension experts, but not many, and there's plenty of companies that only do suspension.  i don't do any revalving myself, i send it all out as it's an area of expertise all its own.

getting the shock resprung and rebuilt will also help - you could even buy another from ebay, send it out and get it done so then you can do both ends as a simple swap, no down time required.  just a thought.

According to the title, it's a '99. I'll try to grab another pic of the forks in the AM.

What you described above is my main issue, the excessive front end dive. Anything other than the lightest 1 finger front brake action, and it burns up what seems like 3/4's of the forks' travel.

I think Ducati used the 40mm Marzocchi units for all 750 Monsters from '98 through '01, so Brad's description is probably correct.  I think they can be interchanged with both adjustable and non-adjustable Showas without changing the triples, though I'm not sure about the axles on the Marzocchis.  I mentioned the adjustable Showas because they seem to come up for sale pretty often, whereas the non-adjustables, which are definitely just as good a starting point since both need to be revalved, aren't as common for some reason in the States....at least in my memory.

External adjustments are nice, but are absolutely unnecessary for a street bike. 

I'm always amused when I see a bike sitting at the local hangout with knobs on the fork caps for "on the fly" rebound adjustments.  Why?????  I can imagine some 8 year old kid climbing up on that bike in the parking lot and playing with the knobs for his personal amusement.  "Let's turn this one all the way to the right....and this one all the way to the left.  There.  Perfect!!!"

Since Brad also mentioned spring types (dual rate versus progressive versus straight rate), I prefer straight rate springs.  They don't offer the smoothest possible ride, but I think they perform better.  As a fat man on a little bike I want all the spring I can get.

I won't discount Brad's opinion about suspension rework, either.  I generally do my own fork work unless there's machining to be done, but I don't dig into shocks.  Again, I'd recommend the folks at RaceTech out in California from personal experience.  However, Lindeman, Thermosman (REALLY close to you in Hendersonville, NC), Traxxion Dynamics (they're close to you, too, just outside of Atlanta) and several others also have good reputations, so shop around and get the service you feel most comfortable with.  Some folks swear by Thermosman, so maybe you should check him out.  770.500.6445  He's also a (the??) US distributor for Ohlins aftermarket bits!

i've got a spare set of 3-way adjustable Showa forks from a 99 Monster.

These are the 41U's, has the solid 20mm front axle, 40mm caliper mounts. Standard Monster forks, so your normal 50/54mm outer diameter, goes right in your triple clamp no big deal. Cosmetically: C- (faded in areas, some scratches).

They can be yours for dirty cheap. Need to be rebuilt though - needs springs for your weight, needs oil and seals, would benefit from RaceTech or Traxxion Internals.

I even have an extra bottle of racetech fork oil if you want that too.

my bike is an 03 m800 and appears to have a "960" and "ScF" in the base of the fork. what make are these? thanx in advance for the help.

Cheers Clint

well im 90% sure mine are showas now. its not as easy to find an answer as i expected. the local Ducati dealer spent a good 1/2hr looking and called me back with his and the other guys in the shops thoughts but no definite answer. but a coupla local suspension shops were also leaning towards showa aswell with some decent reasons so thats good enough for me.

Thanx anyway for alerting me to the possibility guys.

M800 used Marzocchi.

If you think you have the mechanical skill to remove the forks, you most likely have the skills (and tools) to tear into them as long as you simply want to change the springs and/or fork oil.

I just put springs in my 2009 Monster 696 and I'm too lazy to find out if your particular bike has similar (primitive) forks.  I was put off at first after learning what "special" tools are required.  But in fact, you don't need anything special.

The tool to hold my preload tube out of the way while I removed the fork cap is something I didn't even need.  But making one out of an appropriately sized washer by hack-sawing a slot to allow it to fit over the damper tube is easy enough to do.  I actually made one but didn't use it.

That's because rather than compressing the preload tube using a special tool or a home-made equivalent, I used a pair of ratchet binder straps.  The ones I have are relatively small.  Just fasten one end at the bottom of the fork and put the hook into the hole in the side of the preload tube.  Do the same with a second ratchet strap on the other side of the fork using the second hole.  Then alternatively tighten the two straps to pull down the preload tube against the spring far enough to access the lock nut on the damper rod.

Now removing the fork cap is a piece of cake using the wrenches you already own.  Then slowly release the binder straps.  The preload is not high enough to be frightening and you can overcome it with hand pressure, so injury or disaster is unlikely.  RNING: If your forks are not like the ones on the 696, ignore this advice.  I'll leave it to you to do the appropriate research.

Forr the rear shock you need to consider that the existing spring is MUCH stronger and must be compressed significantly in order to remove the little slotted spring keeper.  Of course, releasing the spring tension must be done in a controlled way.  That's why a suitable spring compressor is a good idea.  You're dealing with something which could really hurt you if you screw this up and let the spring get away from you.  Installing a stronger spring on the stock shock is also potentially dangerous. 

However, if you get the shock off the bike and walk into any good motorcycle shop with both your old shock and new spring in hand, you should be able to leave in a few minutes with a shop charge WAY less than the cost of buying a spring compressor.  You wont' get hurt or embarrassed.

I can say that a front and rear spring change on my Monster 696 made a real difference and the cost was low.