http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_congresswoman_shot (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_congresswoman_shot)
Point blank with an automatic weapon..damn!! :-X
My sister lives a block away from the shopping center and heard the shots.
Monster Dave..can you comment on the scene down there?
6 dead, 12 wounded:
http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/01/08/several-people-shot-at-arizona-store-police-official-says/ (http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/01/08/several-people-shot-at-arizona-store-police-official-says/)
Quote from: IZ on January 08, 2011, 12:53:02 PM
Monster Dave..can you comment on the scene down there?
We are in Phoenix this weekend, and he's at the gym. Don't know if he is even aware that this has happened yet, so no updates here.
... just waiting on the news spin that comes out of this... [thumbsdown]
pray for the wounded and dead. a real tragedy.
To hell in a hand basket is where we are headed. Extreme seems to be the only way some travel.
RIP to those lost.
Quote from: IZ on January 08, 2011, 12:53:02 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_congresswoman_shot (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_congresswoman_shot)
Monster Dave..can you comment on the scene down there?
What's funny is that though I was at the gym, when I came back to my car, I found out about from my mother who lives back in Ohio!
On the weekends I tend to unplug, so this was new to me!
Sounds aweful!!
Let's all do our best to not interject politics into this tragedy. There will be a time and place for all that, but let's not let it be here (and especially not now).
This is a tragedy. Sadly, we have the conduits for constant information, but not enough is known at this point. Thankfully, the member of Congress survived the attack, but several did not. Just tragic.
Quote from: IZ on January 08, 2011, 12:53:02 PM
Point blank with an automatic weapon..damn!! :-X
9mm pistol, far cry from your quote.
Quote from: kopfjäger on January 08, 2011, 05:17:12 PM
9mm pistol, far cry from your quote.
If you just read the article, it's been updated and not the same as when I first posted it.
I was at my farm yesterday and most of today in my normal news blackout mode. My brother called me on my cell on the way home to tell me about the shooting. So sad. Just another make the beast with two backsing nut case with a IZ_ mental case agenda wanting to take it publically violent and front stage so everyone can watch. Too bad the bastard wasn't shot dead by security. It would have saved the taxpayers the cost of a trial and appeals. As a supporter of the 2nd Amendent I am once again afraid the actions of a make the beast with two backsing nut will drive new talks of gun control in the legislature in DC. Not going political here at all just afraid that will happen when in reality this has nothing to do with that. You can't prevent crazy make the beast with two backsers doing this kind of thing through legislation. Just really sad. My thought and prayers go out to all effected by this senseless crime.
Doesn't seem like there was much 'security'.
I hear that she was an up front/personal/hand shake distance kind of politician. Nothing wrong with that. Wish more DC folks were of the same mindset. Also hear that she wasn't all wrapped around the security threat. Damn near all folks in office get nut case calls/emails, etc. Hard to take them all seriously. Still, it breaks my heart to know she got shot and others died as a result. Just too bad he didn't get filled with lead before he ever capped off a round. [bang]
Makes me feel ill...
6 dead, one a 9 year old girl, another US district Judge John M. Roll. Rep.Giffords is still on the critical list.
Quote from: redxblack on January 08, 2011, 03:39:35 PM
Let's all do our best to not interject politics into this tragedy. There will be a time and place for all that, but let's not let it be here (and especially not now).
Incidents like this transcend politics. There is no set of issues in a modern democracy where the only recourse is to open fire on group of people. And there is no rationale or any political ideology that you can apply to justify the acts of a sociopath. What political issue requires that we kill a nine year-old girl to be persuasive? Is it healthcare? Immigration reform?
This is not stopping anyone from fueling their political agendas - go to Daily Kos or Fox News, pull up a bunch of user comments. It's a great day for the internet, a triumph of the exchange of ideas among strangers, anonymously.
This is a reminder that the tone of the conversation matters. There is no decency to hate or intolerance no matter what direction you aim your vitriol. This is a tragedy that is -that among decent people should be- devoid of politics.
OK, end of sermon. Sorry folks, this one really gets to me. And redxblack this is not aimed at you in any way..
Quote from: il d00d on January 08, 2011, 10:04:12 PM
Incidents like this transcend politics. There is no set of issues in a modern democracy where the only recourse is to open fire on group of people. And there is no rationale or any political ideology that you can apply to justify the acts of a sociopath. What political issue requires that we kill a nine year-old girl to be persuasive? Is it healthcare? Immigration reform?
this is truth
Quote from: humorless dp on January 08, 2011, 06:01:06 PM
Doesn't seem like there was much 'security'.
Actually, that's normal for most of them. While things have changed a lot since I worked there, most of the security for Members of Congress is focused on Capitol Hill. Being that accessible back home is pretty typical for your average Member; there's just not enough "security" to go around to cover all 435 of them at home and in DC, and hardly any of them would want a really restrictive protective detail anyway. It's not a job that tends to attract introverts.
Quote from: triangleforge on January 09, 2011, 10:04:44 AM
Actually, that's normal for most of them. While things have changed a lot since I worked there, most of the security for Members of Congress is focused on Capitol Hill. Being that accessible back home is pretty typical for your average Member; there's just not enough "security" to go around to cover all 435 of them at home and in DC, and hardly any of them would want a really restrictive protective detail anyway. It's not a job that tends to attract introverts.
point taken...
this is the suck...
http://www.philly.com/inquirer/breaking/sports_breaking/20110109_Dallas_Greens_granddaughter_killed_in_Arizona.html (http://www.philly.com/inquirer/breaking/sports_breaking/20110109_Dallas_Greens_granddaughter_killed_in_Arizona.html)
>:(
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40992437/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40992437/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts)
Quote from: triangleforge on January 09, 2011, 10:04:44 AM
Actually, that's normal for most of them. While things have changed a lot since I worked there, most of the security for Members of Congress is focused on Capitol Hill. Being that accessible back home is pretty typical for your average Member; there's just not enough "security" to go around to cover all 435 of them at home and in DC, and hardly any of them would want a really restrictive protective detail anyway. It's not a job that tends to attract introverts.
Yep.
I run into a local Congresswoman at work all the time. I see her having lunch where I eat, jogging in my patrol area, etc. She is approachable and neighborly. Like she should be.
Giffords is an avid motorcyclist, on the ama's our friends in congress list. She rocks on old school BMW. She's cp-chair of the congressional motorcycle caucus.
Quote from: il d00d on January 08, 2011, 10:04:12 PMIncidents like this transcend politics. There is no set of issues in a modern democracy where the only recourse is to open fire on group of people. And there is no rationale or any political ideology that you can apply to justify the acts of a sociopath. What political issue requires that we kill a nine year-old girl to be persuasive? Is it healthcare? Immigration reform?
This is a reminder that the tone of the conversation matters. There is no decency to hate or intolerance no matter what direction you aim your vitriol. This is a tragedy that is -that among decent people should be- devoid of politics.
Well said. Well and eloquently said.
Just got back to Tucson and will post some pics taken at UMC this morning shortly.
I'm pretty bummed about this
Largely, I think, because a 9 year old girl seemed like a suitable target to that D-bag >:(
but also because he chose what I would consider a good congressman. Someone who was accessable, and who was known for voting both sides...not running the party line. She stood for 2 of the things I love (motorcyclist and space exploration).
My heart goes out to the families of all involved...
I hope Giffords pulls through. She's a tough one to take a bullet to the head and still be kickin.
i believe she was also a gun rights advocate...
the congresswoman that is...
Quote from: herm on January 10, 2011, 11:37:00 AM
i believe she was also a gun rights advocate...
the congresswoman that is...
D rating from GOA
D+ rating from NRA
don't think so.
I heard a clip from her on NPR Saturday from a previous interview (obviously) and she stated she owned a gun and so did members of her family. That was it.
Read some more on the psycho shooter. Sounded like he was a major loser on all counts and it is really looking like he had some mental issues too. Gee... what a surprise. [roll] My sympathies go out to all effected and yes, even to his family. Can you imagine having your own son do something like that? Jeez. [bang] :P
Just to get mildly political, I think this sums up my feelings on the matter:
QuoteMany people will use this terrible tragedy as an excuse to put through a political agenda other than my own. This tawdry abuse of human suffering for political gain sickens me to the core of my being. Those people who have different political views from me ought to be ashamed of themselves for thinking of cheap partisan point-scoring at a time like this. In any case, what this tragedy really shows us is that, so far from putting into practice political views other than my own, it is precisely my political agenda which ought to be advanced.
Not only are my political views vindicated by this terrible tragedy, but also the status of my profession. Furthermore, it is only in the context of a national and international tragedy like this that we are reminded of the very special status of my hobby, and its particular claim to legislative protection. My religious and spiritual views also have much to teach us about the appropriate reaction to these truly terrible events.
Countries which I like seem to never suffer such tragedies, while countries which, for one reason or another, I dislike, suffer them all the time. The one common factor which seems to explain this has to do with my political views, and it suggests that my political views should be implemented as a matter of urgency, even though they are, as a matter of fact, not implemented in the countries which I like.
Of course the World Trade Center attacks are Arizona shooting is a uniquely tragic event, and it is vital that we never lose sight of the human tragedy involved. But we must also not lose sight of the fact that I am right on every significant moral and political issue, and everybody ought to agree with me. Please, I ask you as fellow human beings, vote for the political party which I support, and ask your legislators to support policies endorsed by me, as a matter of urgency.
Found originally here (http://www.boingboing.net/2011/01/09/why-the-shootings-me-1.html), author unknown.
Quote from: il d00d on January 08, 2011, 10:04:12 PM
This is a reminder that the tone of the conversation matters. There is no decency to hate or intolerance no matter what direction you aim your vitriol.
when people remember that rhetoric and spin may have negative consequences, then maybe we are getting somewhere.
sadly that will NEVER happen with todays political climate with ANY of the political parties.
RIP to those that died.
Last week a mayor in Pakistan was murdered by his body guard for his political views. That wasn't much of a surprise. Seems to happen all the time in the mid-east. Are we becoming more like those that we oppose around the world? It is time to cool the political ranker that has started to take over the evening news.
Quote from: akmnstr on January 10, 2011, 01:45:55 PM
Last week a mayor in Pakistan was murdered by his body guard for his political views. That wasn't much of a surprise. Seems to happen all the time in the mid-east. Are we becoming more like those that we oppose around the world? It is time to cool the political ranker that has started to take over the evening news.
Hmm... reports are saying that the Guy was more concerned with not having a gold backed currency, a lack of proper grammar, Mars rovers not being real, and George bush being behind 9/11, not political commentary. Unless of course you count the Communist manifesto and mein kampf as political commentary.
The Guy is simply a nutjob and he is the one responsible. Not MSNBC, fox news, republicans, or democrats.
Quote from: Punx Clever on January 10, 2011, 02:30:56 PM
Hmm... reports are saying that the Guy was more concerned with not having a gold backed currency, a lack of proper grammar, Mars rovers not being real, and George bush being behind 9/11, not political commentary. Unless of course you count the Communist manifesto and mein kampf as political commentary.
My grammar and delivery is far from perfect, and, as The Randimus has pointed out on several occasions, I often misspell words, but hearing the interview of the teacher that kicked him out of class, I understand his position.
[roll]
Quote from: Punx Clever on January 10, 2011, 02:30:56 PM
Hmm... reports are saying that the Guy was more concerned with not having a gold backed currency, a lack of proper grammar, Mars rovers not being real, and George bush being behind 9/11, not political commentary. Unless of course you count the Communist manifesto and mein kampf as political commentary.
The Guy is simply a nutjob and he is the one responsible. Not MSNBC, fox news, republicans, or democrats.
Apparently he asked Giffords at a prior event "What legitimacy does government have if words have no meaning?" and she tried to reply, but it enraged him.
He also is a militant atheist according to friends, reported on MSNBC.
Nothing connects him to politics or even reality.
Yeah, just saw a book in pic of him on my Yahoo email home page news section and he might as well be holding up a 2x4 foot sign that says "make the beast with two backsing nutcase" on it! Shaved his head and has this crazy shit eating grin on his face like he's having fun. Poster child for the American Association of Crazy Mother make the beast with two backsers. [bang]
Complete and total whack job.
Quote from: ducatiz on January 10, 2011, 03:12:31 PM
Apparently he asked Giffords at a prior event "What legitimacy does government have if words have no meaning?" and she tried to reply, but it enraged him.
He also is a militant atheist according to friends, reported on MSNBC.
Nothing connects him to politics or even reality.
That was my point... quoted post was connecting him to prime-time TV. Eff that.
Quote from: ducatiz on January 10, 2011, 12:40:11 PM
D rating from GOA
D+ rating from NRA
don't think so.
Another data point: She has a Zero rating from the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence (lower than Don Young of Alaska...), so I'm guessing the picture is a bit more complicated than that.
Quote from: triangleforge on January 10, 2011, 06:51:33 PM
Another data point: She has a Zero rating from the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence (lower than Don Young of Alaska...), so I'm guessing the picture is a bit more complicated than that.
she was one of the signers of the House amicus in favor of overturning the DC ban, which zeroed her with the Brady bunch.
however, she's supported a good number of other restrictive measures.
Let's change directions please.
This is going political.
No problem uncle granpa [thumbsup]
NPR today was suggesting her NRA rating might have been due to the NRA donating $40k to her opponent in the last election. The NRA is not transparent on how they grade elected officials. Perhaps that's for another thread. Il Dood said it very well. This is the only place on the internets I've seen this discussed as if we were all real people in the same room. Kudos. I know we all have different (and some strong) political differences, and they've been kept at bay. Kudos again.
Quote from: redxblack on January 10, 2011, 08:03:59 PM
NPR today was suggesting her NRA rating might have been due to the NRA donating $40k to her opponent in the last election. The NRA is not transparent on how they grade elected officials. Perhaps that's for another thread. Il Dood said it very well. This is the only place on the internets I've seen this discussed as if we were all real people in the same room. Kudos. I know we all have different (and some strong) political differences, and they've been kept at bay. Kudos again.
How is that post keeping politics at bay?
Some interesting views
http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2011/01/10/assassins-and-american-history?nl=todaysheadlines&emc=thab1 (http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2011/01/10/assassins-and-american-history?nl=todaysheadlines&emc=thab1)
Their old tag-line was: "More people get their news from the Daily Show than probably should."
Then again, with an intro speech like this, maybe more people should get their news there.
http://tv.gawker.com/5730178/watch-jon-stewarts-poignant-speech-on-the-arizona-shooting (http://tv.gawker.com/5730178/watch-jon-stewarts-poignant-speech-on-the-arizona-shooting)
Quote from: oldfastwin on January 10, 2011, 03:58:33 PM
Yeah, just saw a book in pic of him on my Yahoo email home page news section and he might as well be holding up a 2x4 foot sign that says "make the beast with two backsing nutcase" on it! Shaved his head and has this crazy shit eating grin on his face like he's having fun. Poster child for the American Association of Crazy Mother make the beast with two backsers. [bang]
+1
No way in hell I would have sold that guy a gun or ammo.....
Apparently the people from Westboro Baptist Church (the crazies from Kansas that protest soldier's funerals) are planning on protesting the funeral of Christina Taylor Green--the 9 year old girl who was killed--because her family is Roman Catholic. [bang]
Sick people are coming out of the woodwork these days.
Here's an article about some people that plan to build baracades around the protestors so the families can't see them. Great Idea! [laugh]
http://edition.cnn.com/2011/US/01/11/arizona.funeral.westboro/?hpt=C2 (http://edition.cnn.com/2011/US/01/11/arizona.funeral.westboro/?hpt=C2)
I'm tempted to drive out to Tucson, and wear some 8 ft angel wings myself
Whack jobs are everywhere and we can't shield the world from them.
I just found out about that. That's awful. Where's the Kool Aid??
Things are getting hectic here. Security is very tight especially since the President will be arriving here tomorrow. I've never seen so much security and screening of people. In a strange way, it's sort of neat - certainly a change of pace.
i have to agree the guy does have that nutty crazy look on his face, but then again, just because you "look a certain way" if you are a law abiding citizen you are allowed to buy guns in some places without any background check and that is the way that many people want it.
if you thought this thread wouldn't get political, then i have a bridge to sell you.
Seriously, this thread is just too ripe for it NOT to go into politics.
It has a perfect storm of elements to go nowhere but a political conversation,
ie, politician gets shot (you get all the political spin)
guy used a legally store bought gun (you get the whole gun debate going on, with who can/should/how to buy a gun)
location is in arizona (you get the whole political climate in arizona thing going on there for the past few months)
then to top it off you have civilians including kids getting killed (so now you have the whole what punishment for the crime and differing views on how the criminal justice system should work, going on)
^
(http://www.seanhak.net/nothing_to_see_here.jpg)