Ducati Monster Forum

Pierre Terblanche Joins Norton Motorcycles - January 1, 2011.

http://www.nortonmotorcycles.com/news/view.php?id=1185 (http://www.nortonmotorcycles.com/news/view.php?id=1185)

I wonder if this means they will be having more models soon?

Maybe, but I bet the Norton "purists" will hate whatever he comes up with. ;D

doesn't matter, they'll never find out as their all stuck on the side of the road somewhere trying to make gaskets out of ductape and don't own cell phones.  ;D

Did we ever like anything he came up with?

(http://www.randomtime.com/pictures/pnwriders/supermono1.jpg)

Thats worrying .....he is talented but unstable ......some of his work is great but some is plain aweful like the SS series makeover ..a total Fugly disaster area.

Perhaps Norton will use Terblanche to design some concepts bikes like he did for Moto Guzzi last year.  I doubt any of those Guzzi concepts will ever be put to use.  Probably nothing will come of this partnership with Norton too.

the ss series "style" is pretty much the supermono.

the superbike and multistrada are the two that he usually gets reamed for.

used to get reamed for the SBK, everyone loves it now.

Everyone bags on Terblanche...but is he any worse than who is designing their motos now? I think he was much better. Ducati's latest models aren't the prettiest. The current SBK is good looking, but other than that...

The Sport Classic series, MH900, Supermono, Hypermotard...all Terblanche. The 749/999 killed his reputation with Ducati fans. The MTS was ugly, but it was highly functional...and all bikes in that category are ugly.

I liked a lot of his designs.  I'm still not a fan of the 749/999 or Multistrada, but like Triple says, nothing in that category is very pretty.

JM

I rather like the 999 based bikes for WSBK.

it is just something about the headlights that turns me off. 

(http://bikerscafeblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Ducati-999-F05-Team-Xerox-540x405.jpg)

Also, I like the idea of the Supermono, but don't love the fairing from the SS.

But take the headlights off the 999/749 and you have a sexy bike.

Fixed.

Really like the Sport Classics.  Love the 749/999 too, though I didn't at first.  Now, it looks so exotic to me, very Italian.  Think the Multistrada was designed for function more than looks.  Don't like it.  Speaking of Norton, why do they only have one dealer in the US, and why is that dealers address a P.O. box?

That PO box in CT is listed as the US distributor.

Maybe the bikes haven't been EPA approved?

Totally agree with TripleJ

I dig Terblanche - the new concept motos he did for Guzzi are the bollocks, I'll put one in my garage anytime. I think Norton did the right thing, kick off the company with a classic that riders old and new can relate to and then start designing bikes for other segments and attract different riders.

I always liked the 999, and the headlights in particular, though I'm in the minority.

^^^ Right there with ya :)

Funny thing is that the only one of his designs that I like/love and want  is the 999/749 all the others look dynamically or proportionally wrong or plain ugly.

Last night I watched an episode of Cafe Racers that had a segment on the new Norton's.  I was impressed that it is a small factory and the bikes are all hand made.  Beautiful bikes too.  I don't see how Pierre fits in with that setting.  It seems way to early to begin designing new bikes when the company is just getting off the ground. 

The guy who designed the current crop of Nortons is a great designer.  Has he ever done anything else though?  Say what you like about Terblanche but he has experience designing bikes that can be built in volume.  I don't think I am alone in thinking that the new Norton won't last long unless they can add some affordable bikes to their range.  I'd love to have  a Norton in my garage, but I can't afford to pay 25000 for something that performs no better than my Sport 1000s.  If he can help them either make their current bike cost about half as much or help them put $25000 worth of performance in their current line, he could help bring Norton from a tiny volume custom company to a real medium volume motorcycle manufacturer.  Is there anyone here who would complain if Norton had as many models of motorcycle as KTM or Ducati?

Anybody's that has ever had to adjust the valves on a Cagiva Gran Canyon will have a few words regarding his design techniques.

I'm all for more manufactures and more competition.  And I would like to see the British moto industry rise again but Norton's aim (at least for now) is to build hand made bikes.  It seems they will be a British version of MV Agusta, not another Triumph of KTM. 

I was unaware he did the GC.  I have to say that's one bike I do like the look of a LOT.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre_Terblanche (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre_Terblanche)

Terblanche designed the following motorcycles:

Cagiva 900 Gran Canyon
Ducati 888
Ducati Multistrada
Ducati Hypermotard
Ducati Supermono
Ducati ST2
Ducati ST3
Ducati MH900e
Ducati 749/999
Ducati1000 GT
Ducati PaulSmart1000LE
Ducati Sport 1000

Well then I am definitely suspicious because the St2 was a Galluzzi bike.  And I want to say the 851/888 was Tamburini, but I don't have it in front of me.

ST2 = Not Terblanche, and given the GC was made after Cagiva spun off Ducati (and Terblanche went with Ducati, not Cagiva) it is unlikely he did the GC.

These are the thing's I've heard hurt the bikes design reputation
1. No SSS
2. Vertical staked projector beams
3. Barge boards

-But the DSS was used again on the D16 and no one complained
-the vertical headlights still suck though. even if they had been covered with a smooth piece of clear plastic to clean up the lines, but the were just stuck in there...
-the barge boards were very effective i've heard and were all the fad in F1 so I can see the functional style of them and for CF freaks it was one more CF piece they could buy!

I think you are correct. It is too early for Norton to branching off into different models.  Norton will probably have him design concepts bikes like what he did for Moto Guzzi in order to generate buzz and test the market. He probably will only be there a short time like he was with Moto Guzzi

correct the wiki entry. =)

let me find something to document it.  but i know for a fact Galluzzi did the ST2

I'll join that minority. I love my '05 999. And I have one of his '06 Sport 1000s in AMS original Back in Black #2, full Ohlins style! [thumbsup] [moto] I can dig it. ;D

http://s182.photobucket.com/albums/x2/notacop01/?action=view&current=PICT0040.jpg (http://s182.photobucket.com/albums/x2/notacop01/?action=view&current=PICT0040.jpg)

Click on the zoom in feature.

Nice!!  So, you have one of the ones on which the 2007 SE model was based?  I didn't realize there was more than one in 2006.

I have one of the 2007 models:

http://toddbundy.com/Sport1000SE_EVR_1280x1024.jpg (http://toddbundy.com/Sport1000SE_EVR_1280x1024.jpg)

Jeff Nash, owner of Advanced Motorsports, made two Back in Black Sport 1000s. The first one made was featured in the January 2007 copy of Motorcyclist magazine. It was full Ohlins (black forks), had a custom two into one open megaphone exhaust, considerable hot rod engine work and of course the old school Darmah gold on black graphics. It was built for Ducati North America. Mine was the second one they made. It was stock (it already had the custom paint and graphics) when I bought it from them and they added all the rest. The motor is stock unlike the DNA Back in Black.

DNA liked the bike so much they got the factory to take one hundred leftover 2006 Sport 1000s and re-do them into 2007 Back in Black replicas and had them badged as limited editions. Ninety to the US and ten to Canada.

Mine has the taller "comfort" bars, "comfort" gel seat, the slip on Termis/ECU package, carbon belt covers, carbon rear hugger (not in pic) and other CF bits, Evoluzione license plate kit (no longer made), Storz Performance steering damper (not in pic), Rhino Moto axle sliders (not in pic), Speedy Moto clutch plate and cover and CRG LS mirrors.

I'm disappointed he left Guzzi (although not surprised). I really like his concepts, and miss my Goose. I likely would have bought one of his concepts if they ever made them.  :P

I'm not convinced Terblanche did the SC/GT bikes either.  Someone have a link other than the Wikipedia link derby posted? 

Why does that surprise you? It was the correct time frame when he was chief designer, and he did the MH900 which was similar. Of course the SC series were just updates of old models...not full blown new designs.

I've searched for other references to his designs...they seem hard to find. I did find one that said Tamburini did the 888...but again, who knows if it's accurate?

Terblanche gets a raw deal anyway. Tamburini is beloved, but he only really designed one bike...the 916...then just updated it for Ducati, and later MV. Granted it was a great bike, but I haven't seen anything else that was really different from him.

I think Tamburini did the Cagiva Mito as well. but again a 916 look alike

OK, figured it out.

Tamburini did the 888.  DucatiSuite has a good writeup on it.

Terblanche did the SC/GT bikes.

I'd be shocked if Terblanche *didn't* do the Gran Canyon.

Perhaps Cagiva didn't publicly credit him with the design due to the spin-off of Ducati, but to my eye it's got his fingerprints all over it.

It's entirely possible, but he left with Ducati in '96 and the first GCs were sold in 1999.  Perhaps it was something on the drawing board that he left?

That being said, I don't know if I agree. I've loved the look of the GC since I first saw one.  All of the other Terblanche bikes needed to "gestate" in my subconscious for a few years.  I still have a hard time with the diesel train front end of the 999.  Bike is otherwise perfect though.

I think that is where I saw it as well.


IMO the front end of motorcycles is the hardest part to get right...especially for a street moto where lights and gauges are required. A lot of designers screw it up, and Terblanche struggles as well. Terblanche is the master of bike tails though IMO...the 999 has one of the coolest ever (mono version), and the original MTS also had a very cool tail. Conversely, the only part of the 916 that I don't really like is the tail.

I agree about the 999 -- I think he wanted to do something different from the 916's horizontal lights, but honestly, I can think of no good reason.  When I look at the track 999 with no lights, I can easily see horizontal lights on it and it would look great.

I too need time for his bikes to wear on me. Funny, I didn't like the 999 when it first came out. The 916/996/998 bikes were a hard act to follow for sure. But it got good write ups and half the people liked it, the other half hated it. I waited for the updates on the 2005 bikes before I got mine. The jack-o-lantern face of the first models just didn't do it for me. The cleaned up 2005+ front end was an improvement and the swingarm was too. [thumbsup] I'm glad they went back to the dual underseat mufflers on the new sbks. The box muffler on the 999s is the one thing I don't care for.

To this day I do not like the MH900. No amount of time passing will ever make me like it. To each their own. ;) [popcorn]

it's funny, i am ambivalent about it.   sometimes it looks great other times it looks like a wet cat.

More mud for the water:
http://www.vivaducati.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=7&Itemid=45 (http://www.vivaducati.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=7&Itemid=45)

Well there you go.  I don't think that's mud.  The Canyon is just a mini version of the Gran Canyon, and is basically the same bike with a different engine (Mototrans??  I forgot what) and it came out in '95.  Looks like someone at Cagiva figured out how to shoehorn a 900SS engine into the frame after Terblanchey left.

I sit corrected.

...and later, a Suzuki water-cooled twin (TL1000???).  I really like the GCs with the Ducati motor but the maintenance keeps me away.

yup.  the TL engine is pretty nice actually...

So is the rc51. ;D Just sayin' ;D Plus it's got a couple of WSBK championships! [thumbsup]

Terblanche will pen Norton's V-4 superbike.

From Motorcycle Daily: Norton, Terblanche and the V-4

"We were a bit surprised when Norton Motorcycles announced a few months ago that it would field a MotoGP team in 2012 when the 1000 cc capacity comes into play, but the recent announcement that Norton has hired famed Ducati designer Pierre Terblanche tells us Norton has some resources to back up its grand ambitions. European reports now indicate one of the first new Norton models Terblanche will pen is a V-4 superbike. Undoubtedly, this bike will be tied to the engine configuration of the MotoGP machine that will debut in 2012."

http://www.motorcycledaily.com/2011/01/norton-terblanche-and-the-v-4/ (http://www.motorcycledaily.com/2011/01/norton-terblanche-and-the-v-4/)

oh shit... please tell me they will make a SBK then strip it and give us a production of the manx rsv with the an rsv4(ish) engine
(http://bikeexif.exifmedia.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/aprilia-rsv-taimoshan.jpg)

in a post here someone else asked if the guy who had designed the Norton had done anything else. I watched that bike come into being . I was a very good friend with kenny and rode a prototype 961. May I offer this.....thought. Kenny was a practical man. No he has not designed any other feats of brilliance to my knowledge from scratch. Doing this was quite an incredible task believe me, figuring out the design, cam timing,ignition timing, crank configuration, case design oiling system, valve geometry, electrical system charging system, rake and trail, vibration issues, DEQ compliance ,transmission  and clutch design, overall look of the bike, braking systems, clocks and data ept, compliance with DOT /DEQ and a trillion other things. Can you design a cylinder head> Do you know what kind of valve gear you are gonna use and where to locate it with in the head? How do you design rods that dont fail at 7 000 rpm and blow the cases apart? What material do you make the mainshaft in the transmission out of?Do you know how many were made before that alone was completed? Castings, plastic parts, frame manufacture, forks and suspension, etc all have to be done and if one can get a running prototype for the amount of money he spent or less than you have done good. I remember back in the day of going to see Kenny in his little dark office , cold and tired and he would say hey look I just got this back from the foundry..................experimental cyclinder head Number ......Every time one of those is cast its thousands of dollars. Getting it right is the key, then you have to make sure it is machined right so that all the other components will fit. Its easy to take for granted the work that the designers do when you have a new bike, but I bet not many on this forum have actually seen what goes into making something like this. I have . It takes a special person with an immense amount of self confidence and drive to get this done. I watched many triumphs and many failures, .Money was tight ,very tight and to do what he did on what he did was nothing short of amazing. He did not as Honda does have a team of engineers who can knock out a bike in the design room in a day......................he did it the old way. Pen it see what works and then go from there. I take my hat off to this man even though we have not spoken in a very long time. I rode a prototype. Only a handful of folks in the world rode one of these bikes and I was one of them. I also rode a norton F1 rotary when kenny came up to the farm one day...............I had quite a few miles on that too, very quick bike spooled up like an electric motor, tons and tons of power but a very small bike. I was fat at the time and found it very cramped. but the grin factor was 210 on a 10 scale.
I rode the black one, there was red, yellow and black 952 alpha motors and the 961 beta motors. 270* cranks and 360*cranks. The bike was designed to be able to change the camshaft in 20 minutes. Open the ignition case take out the timing plate unscrew an inspection cover take out the can replace with race cam, reasemble download new ignition tming. Done. a goal of 20 minutes was set,it is so you can run what ya brung. Truly a bike for the enthusiast made by one of motorcyclings greats. He has done more for the biking community than most know and was at one point was  a racer any years ago on the east coast. Maybe I should say hello to my old friend one day........ Well done Kenny you did good.You did beyond good and I respect you immensly.
BTW the newer bikes have been refined as they had the money to polish up the original design and make a few things work better. Either way doing what my friend did with what he had was amazing.I recomend  reading an article called England Swings in cycle world magazine , there you can see the start of the bike from the bike he built for Barry Weiss and then onto the VR880 which corrected a lot of the original nortons design faults. Kens bike the 961 had no parts from the orignal norton on it. That weekend of testing was fun , I rode with then editor of cycle world Dave Edwards , Weiss, Dreer and a few others. Edwards was on a big bevel drive Ducati kenny had just built for a customer and I was on my 900 Triumph .We had a fricking blast. Seeing one of the guys wheelying past a cop I thought for sure we were all off to jail. One of the guys riding with us was a motor officer and he had our backs.....
ahhh back in the day........
BGB

Wow, thanks for sharing.  Those must of been some good times.  I've followed Kenny Dreer's Norton work since he was cranking out the VR880's thanks to David Edwards writing about it in Cycle World.  I'd like to own one of the VR880's someday.  Have you ever seen the Norton Kenny did for Dave Edwards?  It was a little different from the VR880's since it had an Interstate tank, fastback tail, and scrambler type pipes.

(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm21/JonTravisKing/Misc/DaveEdwardsInterback1.jpg?t=1297557319)
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm21/JonTravisKing/Misc/DaveEdwardsInterback2.jpg?t=1297557319)


I wish the latest owner (Stuart Garner) the best and hope their bikes sell well.  However, I thought he sounded disengenious when asked about Kenny Dreer's prototypes in a fairly recent magazine interview.  I think it was Cycle World.  He minimized Kenny's efforts by stating that none of the parts were ready for production or some sh** like that.  Funny how their production bike looks exactly like Kenny's prototype.  Kenny's work can't be minimized.

Yes I am familiar with David's bike. I remember it well. Kenny and I were good friends. He is quite the man. I saw some of the rarest of the rare at his shop for many years, including a Healey Ariel Sq 4 engined bike, one of 12 made. I was also with him on a trip to CA when he sold a guy a 1963 BSA Factory Desert Sled complete with massive aircleaner. This was a made to order Gold Star as they were done with pre unit machines by that time and were not avaialble. Yeah, I saw some rare stuff and enjoyed it very much.
The VR 880's used a different left side engine case made by Kenny.There is nothing he does not know about British bikes. The man is a genius.
The VR stands for the name of his company Vintage Rebuilds. I believe the 880 is 880cc. He made around 50 of them or so over the years. They were fast, smooth and a vast improvement over the original commando.