Ducati Monster Forum

Aside from him just being stiff on the bike, im not sure if he gassed it (or it was the bike losing traction that cause the higher rev) or was it just cold tires? Sad to see such a good looking bike go down.

CBR1000 Lowside Crash (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qX9jUWRqr-4#normal)

Bummer.  Dunno what the actual cause was, but it looks like the brake light comes on and almost immediately afterwards the rear tire leaves a big skid mark and slides out from underneath him.  The engine note was constant from corner entry, so I'd guess he was using the brake against the throttle.

Christ that guard rail takes a beating...

Pretty sure my MSF instructor said braking like that is bad...

Looks like the road was recently resurfaced mid corner. See the big black patch. He seems to lose traction on it. My theory anyways. (http://gstwins.com/gsboard/Smileys/New_Smile/dunno_black.gif)

Looks like he was trying to get his knee down with his butt fully planted on the seat.

that turn on mulholland, if you stay there on a good sat or sunday you will see literally hundreds of riders take that turn, the better ones will take it knee down and fast.

What is it with that corner so many people crash there.

first guy have track front fairing?

looks like it. I guess those are street legal now as long as your leathers are matching.

He saw that guardrail coming.  :o :o :o

He's somewhere between "straight up with a side of knee" and "crossed up like a mofo." Been there.

He also has a pretty crap line/setup for that corner. He's mid-lane the whole way. I'd wager it's his first time on that stretch. Been there.  :-\

And he was super-pissed when he stood up. Been there, too.  :-\

Whoa! I was glad to see that guy get up. I thought he had broken his neck on that guard rail.
Freakin' scary looking

people crash there a lot i think because its the longest and last hairpin turn on the road.  i think its a combination of it being a longer turn so people tend to go into it faster and lean more on it because it goes uphill and has a slight positive camber on it too so people go faster and lose it and its the last real turn of the run so people might tend to relax a bit more.

You know what I think you are absolutely right.  When looking at the video more it looks like the turn might be a double apex and people don't account for it.  It looked like he needed more lean to get through the second half of the turn if i'm not mistaken.  And well there wasn't much lean angle left.....

'specially not if you are still sitting on the bike

Looks like he tilthis head down before hitting the rail, save his neck from snapping..

Looks to me like he was going wide, fixated on the rail, then tried to turn the bike to the left rather than countersteering harder. Handlebars look like he turned them left to me. He also hit the rear brake prior to the rear letting go. Combination of those two mistakes.

What idiot put a guard rail right in the middle of the runoff?  Airfence would be much better.

If you watch the vid in slow mo and high def, you can see that the rear wheel stops moving.  It's cuz that idiot was using his rear brake in the middle of the turn while leaned over.

It looks to me like it changes from positive camber to neutral or even a little negative through the turn. It feels like you have a lot of grip and lean angle to spare and all of a sudden bike is feeling funny and the SR's begin to take hold. Easing off gas, stiff arms, target fixation, then brakes. BOOM!  [coffee]

I've been through that corner a hundred times.
It's really not difficult.

The major problem that people have is doing dumb shit because there's a photographer there.

Agree - did look like he fixed on the rail during the turn and then caught himself missing (in his estimation) the entry to the turn.

I made the same mistake in an MSF class (go figure) while doing the 'stopping in a turn' drill.  I had fixated (is that a real word?) on a point in front of me instead of looking around the turn and, when I started to stand the bike up and apply the brakes........ [cheeky] the instructor pointed it out to me afterwards, and I haven't had that problem again  ;D

Maybe they're concentrating more on posing for the camera shot than getting the corner correctly.

It's a constant radius throughout the turn


The turn has a slight negative camber at the very end/exit of the turn.  Where he went down is still (very) positively cambered.


Me too...
But I just wear dumb shit...  [laugh]
(http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/180024_197774036916126_100000505946835_741730_843495_n.jpg)

(http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/184916_1811718368994_1121052464_32181035_3415343_n.jpg)


On any given weekend day, anywhere between 600-1,000 riders head through that section of road...  It's close to one of the densest population areas.  If you check out the website on the first photo, you'll get an idea of just how much traffic goes through that corner. 

With the Rock Store at the bottom of the hill, and the large turnout (Squid Point) just past this turn, riders will do several "laps" in quick succession.
 


[bacon]

two things I noticed

he was trying to adjust his speed late with the rear brake, sort of a bad attempt at trail braking

second is that f*cking rail.. no lower support padding or even a second low rail. If there are that many bikes on that road, it should have some kind of safety features for them.

they are never going to put more safety at the rail, afterall anyone with the knee down like that is probably going faster than the speed limit on the road which is something like 15-20mph, and being that the locals there hate people going up and down the road there is no way they are going to put safety stuff there for riders.

the speed limit is really low on the road, and actualy its hard to go the speed limit, that is why there are so many tickets there on a given sunday or sat.

also that is the last major turn on the road its a longer hairpin turn and who knows what got him falling probably like others said using the rear brake mid turn at full lean is my guess, but who knows.

The speed limit on that section of Mulholland is 35mph. The pictures of me in the goofy get-up I'm doing between 30 and 35.  *Maybe* 40... I know, because I've looked down at my speedo (I know, the worst thing to do) while exiting the turn...
5mph over is nothing. 
Simple operator error and lack of skill and an overabundance of ego are what leads to 90% of the crashes there...

I almost got caught out by that turn once...  It was late in the day, and I was day dreaming.

  On my old '99 M750 I would come out of the previous right corner at the bottom of second and roll off at the top of second, using the copious engine braking to slow me for the corner.  On this particular day, like I said, I was daydreaming.  Instead of rolling off the throttle, my foot (sans brain) decided to kick me up into 3rd.  As soon as it did, I realized I had no time or way to slow down.  I just slid my ass to the left and leaned harder then usually.  Luckily I had the presence of mind NOT to grab any brake.  I just kept steady throttle, not accelerating or slowing, and looked through the turn.  I made it. I was lucky enough to have a bike that was much better than I was at the time.  I had been riding about 3 years at that point.   

Anyone notice that the rear tire skuffed the road several times....I wonder if he hit the brakes which in turn caused him to loose control in the first place.

Not following the first part, but I'm trying.

If he turns the bars to the left, the bike ought to stand back up right?  I see him do this, and then when the back begins to come around he tries to dirt track it around the corner....only the brake light is on...

I agree it looks as though he's looking at the rail for a second.

???? trying to learn.  I just came back from the duc.ms east coast meet at fontana.  Had tons of fun, and learned some things....but the bike is now "telling" me things and I'm not sure how to react to it.
Trying to learn here,

If done correctly and the rider is expecting it. Done too quickly (panic instinct motion) AND without the rider adjusting weight accordingly and it could cause the front to wash out. Watch his hands right before the rear breaks loose...right elbow lifts, bars turn to left slightly, then rear brakes loose. Hard to say exactly what happened from the angle....crash could have been just from the rear braking as well. But looks to me like he steers left, causing the front to wash, then the rear comes around (almost simultaneous with front washing).

I think this is the 2nd time we've see that on this corner.

damn. that hurts

Lots of good learning points here, thanks guys.

I agree with all of them, mainly it looks like he had a bad approach angle, bad body position and bad breaking too far into the turn.  I'm new to riding but I can tell he just looks way too stiff on the bike and has bad position in the turn, then tried to correct it by breaking.

Ouch guys. I'm learning, thanks for the tips in the comments. Sorry for the guys who are scrapping those nice bikes. One thing I commend them for, they are wearing proper riding gear [thumbsup]

Mullholland again

GSXR Crash into Guardrail - Feb 19,2012 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOgYYysWvVo#)

Video from the KTM giving chase - skip to 2:40
GSXR RIDE FUN CRASH AND OK. feb 19/2012 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xu_JGH7batI&feature=youtu.be&t=2m40s#)

Not exactly sure why the dude bins it. He wasn't going all that fast

If you're looking at the guardrail, chances are very good that you'll hit it.

yeah, looks like he locked on. Though his body position in the turns coming up to this is all crossed up. Shoulders to the outside forcing more lean into the bike. Though that issue doesn't seem at play here, since he was almost upright from the moment he lost control to the impact with the rail.

Late breaking?  Skid mark didn't seem too long..

(http://wtfcontent.com/img/131392980710.jpg)

 :o 1098R - read the comments eviscerating the guy who crashed
Heavily Modified Ducati 1098r Crash (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PE9cozFuAw#)

Any of the films from this corners comments are filled with people talking crap. Yay for the internets trolls that they can post nasty stuff with no fear or bowing to normal social convention.

Though, I don't get what happened to cause that guy to flop. Looks like he locked the front - but why? Not going fast, as far as one can tell from that. Not leaned... not anything that looks like it should cause a crash. 50 feet on in that gotcha section... ok. But there, seems odd.

Looks to me like he came in too fast, target fixated on the rail instead of looking through the corner, panicked and grabbed a handful of front brake...and the brembo monoblocs bit him. Those brakes are notorious for being touchy.

A monster got it this time... :(

Ducati Monster Motorcycle Crash - May 13, 2012 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBgrVI0Dyto&feature=g-user-u#)

Why are there so many crashes on that corner, and why is there someone filming everyone that rides by to have all these videos?  Seems weird to me to set up a camera in the corner in hopes of seeing guys get hurt.  ???

Not ever having been on it I'm not sure - but it does catch a lot of people.

The folks taking photos aren't there for the crashes they are there for business. Much like Killboy at deals gap they set up and take photos of the traffic in the hopes that folks will purchase them. That spot has a large pull off area - big enough for multiple cars to be well off the road making it a great spot to set up - and there's that turn. Which if done right can yield some great photos - and accidents. The coincidence of the pull off and turn are just that - random coincidence.

That corner isn't really that difficult to negotiate...  [roll]

People are just dumbasses...  :-\

Lots of factors figure into the crashes that have occurred there, IMHO...

1) People know there's lots of people watching and, of course, the cameras, so maybe they're showing off a little, get in over their heads and biff it..

2) All the previous corners leading put to the long sweeper are relatively short, sharp switchbacks.  I think maybe as people throttle out of the previous right hander, they get caught off guard by the different type of apex, their brains can't compute, so they freeze up and just mosh on the brakes, lock 'em up, and crash...

3) This part of LA is extremely wealthy.  A lot of riders there have more money and horsepower than they have brains.   :-\   Most riders up there on any given weekend don't have the first clue on how to ride a motorcycle safely, let alone what to do in an "Oh Shit!" situation...

I'll admit, I got caught out on that corner once...  I'd been through that corner dozens of times before, but once, coming out of the right hander before, I clicked up into third instead of staying in second.  Well, dumbass mistake..  But instead if freaking out, I looked through the turn, stayed off the brakes, and let the bike do it's thing... 

I learned a lot from that little episode... Like that my bike was much better than I was, I had gobs more lean angle than I ever thought possible, and what they teach at rider safety courses really does work and can save your ass...  [thumbsup]


As an aside, before moving back to Connecticut, I stayed away from that part of Mulholland for almost two years because of the amount of terrible riders... I opted for the 150 from Santa Paula to Ojai and then the 33 from Ojai up through the National Forrest.  [evil] [Dolph]



[bacon]

I just thought it was odd that there are so many crashes at that spot, when it doesn't seem like a tough corner from the videos.  I also think it's weird that someone would spend their weekends filming riders, hoping for something exciting to happen.  I watched a bunch with my wife and she figured someone was throwing handfuls of sand on the road to make it worth filming, which is almost believable from some of the wipeouts.

No, like it was said, you go to the photographers website and can buy pics of yourself.  I have seen vids where the camera guys will immediately bust out the brooms after getting a downed bike off the road to clear any debris.  The last thing they want is for riders to go down, it would slow there business with less traffic going through during cleanups (not to mention it would be a pretty f'd up thing to do).

Throwing sand on the road?!  REALLY??!!!   [roll]

Do you know how soon someone's ass would be kicked over the side of the mountain if they were caught doing that? 

Unless you've seen firsthand the amount of motorcycle traffic that corner gets on a weekend, it's really difficult to imagine...  Hundreds of bikes an hour, thousands each day...  Just go to Paul's (the photog's) website, and you'll start to get an idea... 

Also, there is stupidity abound among the four-wheeled cage crowd, too.  It's just not highlighted as much as motos...  Fabio crashed his (borrowed) Ferrari in that corner, and some asshat in a Pontiac GTO took out a bunch of motorcycles parked in the turnout, because he thought he could drift while filming himself with his Iphone...   [bang] [bang] [bang]

Car Crashes into Parked Motorcycles on Mulholland (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbdJxFjRe6E#)

Red Truck Idiot (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpi3u3-8_I0#)

Lane Challenged Drivers (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1_FaZqW5pw#)

^^^ This last video pretty much demonstrates my argument of more money than brains or talent. [roll] [bang]

The corner isn't that difficult, people are just not realistic about their abilities and get into trouble....   I'm tired of the corner getting a bad rep because people can't handle their bikes.  :P  Hell, there's a vid of some tool in Crocs on a little scooter eating it going 25mph!!!

Scooter Crashes Into Guardrail on Mulholland (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgKoXzbw13E#)

There's also plenty of videos of some really talented riders making that corner look as awesome as it really is...  [evil]

Nice Two Up (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vrd6c_jvGzI#)

Mulholland @ 300fps - Red Epic Super Slowmo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPnkDd0cepg#)

The Best time to enjoy that stretch of road is around 6pm on a Tuesday night.  No weekend warriors, no millionaires in their garage queen supercars, no nonsense.  [thumbsup]  I met one of the guys test riding the 1098 Streetfighter for Cycle World on a weekday evening a few years ago.  I also followed an LA County moto [leo] once...  I was on my Monster, he was on a big BMW...  I couldn't keep up!  [laugh] [laugh] [laugh]


 [bacon]

Yeah tossing sand = peeing in your own pool, and drinking it  :-X

As noted it's a coincidence of people who lack sufficient skill/sense pushing too hard. Now, the fact there are cameras there might, anecdotally, contribute to more crashes as folks are probably pushing harder to get a glamour shot.. and end up getting a shame shot. But no one is tossing stuff in the road. There might be some more crud due to people running wide and dragging it back in - but as mentioned the locals usually police for that and will have brooms.

I know at deals gap, KillBoy, his photogs and other locals carry brooms and actively work to keep the road clear of mess. They spray paint warnings  and arrows on the road as well to warn of extra tight or complex turns and direction changes - I'd bet there's some of that on Mulholland too.

And as that car video and other show - people with PLENTY of grip still run wide, or worse cut the corner on roads like that due to lack of skill or sense.

I like this on board perspective.   [thumbsup]

NEW - DUCATI 1199 PANIGALE S ON MULHOLLAND (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tzq7H6mVaWU&feature=g-all-lik#)

So its an uphill turn..  is it a late apex, think wat its called,  there?   Recommend speed?

Besides people getting scared or not knowing what they are doing on a bike, there are a few reasons why people (myself included once) crash in that corner.

1. That corner is "tricky" because it's not very difficult. It's pretty long but it's neither tight and slow nor is it sweeping and fast.

2. The speed (as you can see in Adey's video) is between 40-45mph. And no more.... That's the important part! If you get greedy and try to roll on the gas a bit earlier or a bit harder you run out of room on the exit and you have to keep the bike leaned over to turn. That's when the rear will spin up and slide.

3. THE SPEED IS 40-45mph, NO MORE!!!

4. The right hand kink and short straight leading up to is the root cause for most of the crashes. You can really get going (like Bacon Junkie said) and then easily overcook it in the braking zone, get distracted, target fixation, lock the rear, tuck the front, run a shitty line, etc.


My personal choice was to get greedy on the throttle application the first time I rode my R6 up there (coming from only riding my S4RS). Spun the rear and let is lowside off into the dirt at the corner exit. I had just bought the bike and didn't have good tires (plus ended up I had a leaky fork too).

Here we have an example if rider error. In this case too much lean vice foot position (and bad foot wear) causes a toe to scrape and rider to panic stand up the bike and run wide. In the slow mo you can see the rider 'jump' away from the inside pulling up the bike... that wasn't it for them though - they target fixated and went in. They could have rode it out if they kept their eyes on the prize. Even with standing up the bike they still would have made it.

Mulholland GSXR 750 Crash 5/20/2012 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGAXsv2SL0c&list=UUvtfT-xYX4Q-jC2Mbsk3OUA#)

^ The pink mohawk!!!  I can't stop laughing.  [laugh]

Re-reviewing that, they also were on the front brake when the wheel left the pavement, causing it to lock up. Probably all happened to quickly for reaction that wasn't practiced - but being off the front into the dirt might have kept the bike up... *might*

And yeah, it's hard to feel as much pity for folks with helmet hawks or similar 'look at me' adornments.

guess those frame sliders didn't hold up so well...  [roll]

DON'T LOOK AT THE ROCKS

Motorcycle Crashes Into Hillside - July 28, 2012 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dciyhfaScAo#)

you always wonder if the guy is a seasoned riding veteran or just a squid riding outside his limits

Not really

I just came to post sadpanda's video......he should have dumped before trying to go trail riding on his R6, plastics and levers are easier to fix than engine cases......my 0.02

Going back to pink mohawk - if you're about to run off the road don't grab that front brake. They might have been able to ride it out on the rear brake. But they locked up the front brake (very easy in dirt w/ street tires) and it dived in. 

There is so much fail in the guy trying to scale the hillside with an R6.

But he did obey the law of gravity...

the first time I rode that turn we go through it, stopped at the top and i said to my buddy "that was it?"

in some videos it looks like there might be a bump or undulation in the tarmac which tends to unsettle people who are already uncomfortable.

I think the weirdest one I've seen lately was the guy who took his hand off the throttle to, I guess, catch himself from falling over.  at speed.

This one?
http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=58386.0 (http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=58386.0)

I stuck it in it's own thread. But it is Mulholland - so for those that missed it:

How not not prevent a crash:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxL5S22_tMw# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxL5S22_tMw#)

 :o

Now that's dumb.

Especially considering he was basically at the exit and would have been fine if he just stood up the bike. Instead, he tossed a hand down? I know it was a panic reaction and not a 'logical' process... but dur.

Worse of all, it was his throttle hand!! I understand the reaction, but if you have spent any years riding a bike you should have learned not to let go off the throttle when leaned over.  [bang] I reads the original thread and he could have easily powered out of it.

Yep - to quote myself

"My read - he touched down the peg or other hard part and panicked. His panic reaction was, for whatever reason, to remove his hand from the bar. As a result he wasn't able to do a couple things that would have prevented the crash
1) More throttle - controlled addition of throttle would lift the bike suspension and tend to right right the bike
2) Use bars to right the bike - He had plenty of road on his side of the the dbl yellow and was nearing the exit of the turn.

He could have saved it. bike never lost traction - you can see in the slow mo version that the bike quite happily rights itself and might well have made it he'd actually fallen off."

The bike could have done the turn... he could not.

Free country and everything, but dumb people should not be allowed to buy bikes that can't handle or at least not allowed to ride them in those roads until they prove they're not complete idiots.

This crash defines what it means to freeze. This guy literally froze up. Might as well set the tank on fire while your at it.


Motorcycle Crashes Into Hillside - July 28, 2012 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dciyhfaScAo&feature=player_embedded#)

Posted a few days back. Get on it Kui

The internet takes 3 days to get to colorado unless your in denver! give me a break! ;D

Lies! My folks lived out in CO and retired to a town that had a population under 200 - yes 2 0 0 and had pretty quick interwebs. Don't blame your sloth on anything else mister!

Looks like the motor froze up, thats a lot of vibration. even if he was in teh wrong gear.

Ducati Monster Motorcycle Crash - May 13, 2012 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBgrVI0Dyto&feature=list_other&playnext=1&list=SP467A2492C0B9CBFF#)

Still looks nice sitting there crippled...  :'( poor S4R.

Panic!....Damn right it "froze up", because he never pulled the clutch in and stomped the rear brake.  Try it in a parking lot if you want....your bike will do the same.

The curve is challenging for sure, but lets not forget everyone knows the cameras are there too, so they try a little bit harder to get that good shot and.....ouch.

Same thing happens on the Dragon.  There are much worse corners on the Dragon, but people always try to hot dog for the camera and crash on the corners the cameras are posted in.  Those corners aren't the most difficult, they are just the best for the photogs.

New crop of videos

2011 Yamaha R6 Crash September 23, 2012 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dL547QPaR1c&hd=1#)

Pretty easy to see what went wrong here.

so there's just a bunch of guys just hanging out right there waiting to see everyone wreck their bikes?
also I wonder if that is the most wrecked spot for motos in North America?

There's a big big area there where people can pull off, turn around etc. There's photog who set up there, much like Killyboy on deals gap. They take photos of folks going by, and then hope to sell those photos. Being outside LA one can see all sorts of exotics going through there, mostly driven by Jay Leno it seems.

So no, they are not specifically waiting for a crash. Just getting photos/video of all the traffic coming through. When you watch it all, that encompasses crashes/ crap driving/ good driving etc.

maybe one day I'll make it out there... hopefully not to crash though

Sorta derbyy from my other thread. But it is Mulholland

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qSPP95zdCQ&feature=share&list=UUvtfT-xYX4Q-jC2Mbsk3OUA# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qSPP95zdCQ&feature=share&list=UUvtfT-xYX4Q-jC2Mbsk3OUA#)

Did the rear step out?

Discussing it in detail here:
http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=60705.0 (http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=60705.0)

R6 Crashes into Parked Motorcycles 3/03/2012 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_21169&feature=iv&index=4&list=PL467A2492C0B9CBFF&src_vid=Up2UvuRLdTE&v=HM-k0yD-c58#)


thoughts on what's going on here?  looks too me like he got on it a little early and the ass end came around. it's happened to me in the dirt...

I'm no expert and would like to hear what others here have to say... but looks to me like he's got his upper body crossed up putting way too much lean angle on the bike and asking a small (and possibly cold) part of the tire to do more work than it wants to.  Prob trying to strike a "cool" pose for the cameras... He's certainly not fast in that turn.

I'm also surprised how much damage his bike sustains after.

his rear tire starts to slip on the apex while on the yellow line... very slippery?

i dont know that turn first hand, but it looks to me that he's passed the apex.  i also found a compilation of close calls before and it looks like the back steps out on a good amount of people at that spot though...i'll see if i can find it again

i do think it's a little funny that the back end of the bike basically disintegrates...

It looks like he has a small slide, then starts to doubt his success and removes weight from his pegs/bars (crouching). No weight = no traction. Full slide as a result.

Doesn't look to me like he got to the line.
Close, but not on it.

He did, however, continue opening the throttle as he leaned the bike more.
That's a good way to end up on the ground.

+1 on keepin the trottle open. If the tires would have found grip it would have been a nasty highside. Who the hell parks their bikes in those corners? You must not like your bike.

Couple more

Motorcycle Crash - Honda CBR Lowsides on the Downhill (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2o4pZqkjqak&feature=player_detailpage&list=UUvtfT-xYX4Q-jC2Mbsk3OUA#)

R1 Lowside Crash 2/3/2013 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?list=UUvtfT-xYX4Q-jC2Mbsk3OUA&v=d1bYtEBWj6Q&feature=player_detailpage#)

His shoe came off

From the youtube notes- a bit of skin did too. No real gear present.

Its a shame, these guys will never learn. I get that they probably look at us, the guys who wear full leathers, like we're idiots but they have to have some idea that jeans and sneakers will not even protect you from road rash. Notice how the guy in the first vid got up and continued to ride after his crash? I'd like to argue that the leathers had something to do with that.

And what's with the rag hanging out of his jeans pocket, possibly falling out and getting caught in the rear tire?

And I guess the flat brimmed ball cap tucked into the grab handle of the rear seat is some sort of "cool" thing, god I hate that. Buy a tail bag.

What am I talking about, forget everything I just said....... [bang]

So, lets analyze a bit.  What were the causes? 

R1 guy clearly does not counter steer, watch the slowmo close up and he is trying to turn the bars like a steering wheel.  You can actually see the front wheel start to skip before he low sides.

It is harder to tell with the CBR, but it looks like a similar cause, neither touches the front brake.

I love how the CBR guy jumps on the bike and just takes off, no checking to see if all the controls operate properly, fluid leaking, BRAKES work, etc...."I'm good, let me try to immediately earn back credibility by barreling into the first few turns to show I CAN ride."   [thumbsdown]

R1 guys body position doesn't help him at all. He's at least dead center in the saddle, and perhaps (hard to tell) leaning is upper body out of the turn a touch. Arms are long and his torso is up, raising the center of gravity. So his body position forced more lean on the bike than necessary... and flagging a knee in jeans - that had to hurt.

Or else he actually WAS countersteering, but he was too heavy with the input, kicking him down instead of standing him back up.

Where do you see counter steer?  The front is turned to the inside of the turn as he goes down!

Have you ever lost the front on your bike? That's what happens. The second you lose traction on the front wheel it slams "into" the turn as you lowside.

True...

...but looks to me like he was trying to steer around the corner before the front lost traction. He was nowhere near enough lean angle for the front to just let go.

BOOM, totally eating my crow. I didn't bother watching the slow mo, to me it just looked like he tried to lean the bike over as he was counter-weighting with his horrible BP. That's such a common occurrence up there. Watched the slow mo and it definitely does look like he just tried to add steering. What an idiot.

Im not horrible.

Inexperience totals a bike. From the post "Rider with three weeks experience goes wide into the guardrail on his first visit and first run up Mulholland."

New Rider Hits Guardrail - Motorcycle Crash 2/24/2013 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5C2G_pz42XM&list=UUvtfT-xYX4Q-jC2Mbsk3OUA&feature=player_detailpage#)

And almost a two-fer. No idea what started that beyond paic. The scrape marks (see 1:10) start in the straight. Video notes say "A Regular rider up here loses the front on the downhill"

Stars & Stripes Motorcycle Crash Feb 23, 2013 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?list=UUvtfT-xYX4Q-jC2Mbsk3OUA&v=x0W3EAgiG-c&feature=player_detailpage#)

gj on that guy in the second video not target fixating and slamming into the bike... you see him look at it and then look right past and through the turn.

This guy, not so good with the target fixation - and his was just some rocks - not a an interesting thing like a crashing bike

Target Fixation - R6 Motorcycle Crash March 2, 2013 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=W5AQng5pbFU&list=UUvtfT-xYX4Q-jC2Mbsk3OUA#)

Going uphill on that turn is a giant rock on the right hand side of the road.  Back when I was but a young canyon racer we called that rock "Target Rock".  It has caused many a rider to look in the wrong place and go wide.  Many years ago a CHP on a bike hit it while chasing another bike up the hill.

Looks like another target fixation wreck in the same place.  Posted this in the bicycle thread as well.  First cyclist takes a pretty hard pavement hit to the head.

Guess I did a double derby.

http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=62996.0 (http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=62996.0)

We have a new winner. I feel a bit bad, since it's a nice new 848 Corse... but this guy was going to crash sooner, not later. Crash at 0:50

Lane Challenged Ducati 848 EVO Crash 5/27/2013 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNfFLuUC1QA&feature=player_detailpage#)

"This is the snake telling you", love that line.

"Are you from Australia or Hong Kong?" was just as good!

You can see from 0:32 that guy over his head. Wobble, sloppy adjust, wobble, turn in too early, adjust body badly mid turn, clip dbly yellow at full lean, crash.

Brand new 848 well, at least he got up and rode. Hopefully he made it home.

...and the reflector.

Yeah, looks like if was the 'flector that got him. Looking at the comments, some folks thought it was the lines. But it seemed to me that he went down before the wheel hit the paint - but I didn't watch the slow mo to spot the reflector.

Well, this is a case of a couple rider errors.

First - is his tire. Watch the full clip and you'll see why he's a dumb ass.
2nd - he was in over his head and might well have crashed regardless of tire condition.

CBR600rr Crash 6/9/2013 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=RmZFHoZVV_A#)

Nah, the front just gave out.

Nothing to do with him being crossed up, on a shagged tire.

Also looked like he wasn't counter-steering. At all.

One must - that's just physics. But the greatest deflection of the bars is at your tip in. After the tip in you really don't need much input on the bars if you've got it right and they will look pretty neutral

What I meant was that the front gave out because of the tires as stated on the video.

 Wholey shirt! Anyone who goes playing Ricky racer with cord showing on the front tire gets nooooo sympathy!

He's definitely spending more money now.  :(

And we have a new one!  Just posted the 6th.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxlHBvCrFMM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxlHBvCrFMM)

Motorcycle Crash Yamaha R1 Lowsides on Mulholland Hwy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxlHBvCrFMM&feature=player_detailpage#)

Doesn't look like he actaully low sides - like he lost the front. But more that the rear lost traction, came around and he was so committed and leaned over that the bike ended up on it's side before there was any of the self correction action of the rear regaining traction and whipping the bike and rider around that hallmark a highside

And yet another one,  Looks like it was a busy weekend lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHL_OQzVtCc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHL_OQzVtCc)

and another one....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=goeNoaFUbmU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=goeNoaFUbmU)

Thought all I had to do to embed a video was post the link......

Seems like there might have been a URL format change, and the board doesn't parse it. I'm copping some of my old embedded ones, and spawning in the unique vid ID

Motorcycle Crash Yamaha R1 Lowsides on Mulholland Highway (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=goeNoaFUbmU&feature=player_detailpage#)

Motorcycle Crash Yamaha R1 Lowside crash on Mulholland Hwy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHL_OQzVtCc&feature=player_detailpage#)

Both of them are crossed up - trying to get a knee out/down without getting their upper body in the game as well.

The guy coming up hill with the squid shoal was asking for trouble - flagging a knee in jeans or sweats... or what ever it was that ripped up as soon as he hit. And he's an object lesson in - if you think you've stopped rolling, wait a couple seconds to be sure before trying anything like standing. If he's stayed low, assuming he was still moving he might have avoided that last shot to his right arm him gave himself.

The last 3 videos:

1 - Guy could not do much to save it, but I doubt he did much damage other than some scratches.
2 - Angle wasn't that good, but he seemed to just drop it. Maybe touched the brake??
3 - He was all sorts of messed up.

Bald tires….

Looks to me like his throttle inputs are terrible, real jerky, even before the crash.

Ducati Rear Brake Highside Crash (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVvkSQmqm3M#)

Sorry, but I can't resist.  Derby

http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=73258.msg1367149#msg1367149 (http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=73258.msg1367149#msg1367149)

 [laugh] [laugh] That was out loud with a snort.  [laugh]

Ow

Ducati 1199 Nice Save (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6iQB-e5DSA#)

Sign post was close. Phew!

Can anyone explain the position of his left hand on the grip?


This one is remarkable.

 Those damn center-line reflectors  (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNfFLuUC1QA#)

"What the make the beast with two backs were you thinking?" Are you from Australia or Hong Kong?"  [laugh]

Target fixation?

Video shot at Mulholland, but not by rinky mouse.
INSANE SUPERMOTO CANYON RUN (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjdBx1xuay0#)

Yep that would've been me.  ;D I had to follow my buddies carefully when riding in California.

I think he was trying to drag elbow and was on the bar end to make his forearm longer/elbow lower.

Bingo - if you slow down the play back, you can see him reaching out to try touch elbow... and then running himself off