Ducati Monster Forum

Moto Board => Tech => Topic started by: Buckethead on January 20, 2011, 05:40:13 PM

Title: Loctite vs Anti-seize
Post by: Buckethead on January 20, 2011, 05:40:13 PM
As I understand it:

Loctite keeps things from moving.

Anti-seize keeps things from corroding to each other and becoming a single piece of metal.

When/where should I/should I ABSOLUTELY NOT use either of these things on the bike?
Title: Re: Loctite vs Anti-seize
Post by: scduc on January 20, 2011, 05:46:44 PM
I can only say that locktite on aluminum is not the greatest thing to do, unless you never plan on removing it. Also, the Ducati workshop manuals do a pretty good job of showing where to use locktite. I would think anti-seize on anything which gets removed regularly and is exposed to the elements. You will most likely get many responses here of personal preference
Title: Re: Loctite vs Anti-seize
Post by: alibaba on January 20, 2011, 10:55:03 PM
As a general rule, anti-seize is particularly appropriate when joining dissimilar metals. 
Title: Re: Loctite vs Anti-seize
Post by: ducpainter on January 21, 2011, 04:27:44 AM
Quote from: Buckethead on January 20, 2011, 05:40:13 PM
As I understand it:

Loctite keeps things from moving.

Anti-seize keeps things from corroding to each other and becoming a single piece of metal.

When/where should I/should I ABSOLUTELY NOT use either of these things on the bike?
The seat...

don't ever use either on the seat. [thumbsup]
Title: Re: Loctite vs Anti-seize
Post by: ungeheuer on January 23, 2011, 03:35:51 AM
Quote from: alibaba on January 20, 2011, 10:55:03 PM
As a general rule, anti-seize is particularly appropriate when joining dissimilar metals. 
+1.  I use anti seize on the exhaust studs/nuts.  Not at all something that requires frequent disassembly, but when you want it apart.... you want it apart... and 'em nuts are soft.
Title: Re: Loctite vs Anti-seize
Post by: the_Journeyman on January 23, 2011, 07:03:39 AM
I'll be using anti-seize on my rearset bolts from now on after my latest stuck bolt saga.

JM
Title: Re: Loctite vs Anti-seize
Post by: 64duc on January 25, 2011, 11:16:10 AM
Quote from: ungeheuer on January 23, 2011, 03:35:51 AM
+1.  I use anti seize on the exhaust studs/nuts.  Not at all something that requires frequent disassembly, but when you want it apart.... you want it apart... and 'em nuts are soft.


  Copper high heat antiseize if you have access to it works best on parts that get very hot.
Title: Re: Loctite vs Anti-seize
Post by: junior varsity on January 25, 2011, 02:55:01 PM
there's not a good "rule", but sometimes I go about it like this:

low strength loctite on things that are prone to vibrate and external to the motor. Example: headlight brackets, mirrors, etc.

high strength loctite on stuff inside the motor

antiseize on dissimilar metals
Title: Re: Loctite vs Anti-seize
Post by: Buckethead on January 25, 2011, 03:06:02 PM
Quote from: alibaba on January 20, 2011, 10:55:03 PM
As a general rule, anti-seize is particularly appropriate when joining dissimilar metals. 

Quote from: a m on January 25, 2011, 02:55:01 PM
low strength loctite on things that are prone to vibrate and external to the motor. Example: headlight brackets, mirrors, etc.

high strength loctite on stuff inside the motor

antiseize on dissimilar metals

Thank you. Very concise, and pretty much as I figured.  [thumbsup]

Now I just wish someone would tell the factory about anti-seize when wrenching steel oil-cooler fittings into the cast-aluminum engine casing.  :-\

Any idea if the threads will create a tight enough seal for the lines if the crush washer doesn't have a perfectly flat surface to crush to? You know, like if PART OF THE make the beast with two backsING ENGINE CASE BROKE AWAY when the stock fittings were removed?
Title: Re: Loctite vs Anti-seize
Post by: ducpainter on January 25, 2011, 03:13:42 PM
Quote from: Buckethead on January 25, 2011, 03:06:02 PM
Thank you. Very concise, and pretty much as I figured.  [thumbsup]

Now I just wish someone would tell the factory about anti-seize when wrenching steel oil-cooler fittings into the cast-aluminum engine casing.  :-\

Any idea if the threads will create a tight enough seal for the lines if the crush washer doesn't have a perfectly flat surface to crush to? You know, like if PART OF THE make the beast with two backsING ENGINE CASE BROKE AWAY when the stock fittings were removed?
If there is any flat circular area around the hole it should.

Did material come off around the hole?
Title: Re: Loctite vs Anti-seize
Post by: junior varsity on January 25, 2011, 03:16:46 PM
make seal with chewing gum.
Title: Re: Loctite vs Anti-seize
Post by: Buckethead on January 25, 2011, 03:18:20 PM
Quote from: humorless dp on January 25, 2011, 03:13:42 PM
Did material come off around the hole?

About a thread and a half off the top 1/3-1/2 of the "OUTLET" side.

edit: There's still a good 10-12mm of good threads for the fitting to grip, but the facing is definitely not flat. Ideally I'd have someone weld some material back in there and then thread the new metal, but that's not really an option at this point.
Title: Re: Loctite vs Anti-seize
Post by: ducpainter on January 25, 2011, 03:27:26 PM
Quote from: Buckethead on January 25, 2011, 03:18:20 PM
About a thread and a half off the top 1/3-1/2 of the "OUTLET" side.

edit: There's still a good 10-12mm of good threads for the fitting to grip, but the facing is definitely not flat. Ideally I'd have someone weld some material back in there and then thread the new metal, but that's not really an option at this point.
It shouldn't matter if it's not full width.

Can you post a pic?
Title: Re: Loctite vs Anti-seize
Post by: Buckethead on January 25, 2011, 03:31:23 PM
Not right now, unfortunately. I should be able to get one tomorrow, worst case over the weekend.

Not like the bike is going anywhere for a while. It's in a "transitional" phase right now.  [evil]
Title: Re: Loctite vs Anti-seize
Post by: ducpainter on January 25, 2011, 03:35:08 PM
Quote from: Buckethead on January 25, 2011, 03:31:23 PM
Not right now, unfortunately. I should be able to get one tomorrow, worst case over the weekend.

Not like the bike is going anywhere for a while. It's in a "transitional" phase right now.  [evil]
Damn kids...

you had to go and 'fix' it. :P
Title: Re: Loctite vs Anti-seize
Post by: Buckethead on January 25, 2011, 03:50:56 PM
Pretty much.

Then again, since I live in the barracks without luxuries like, say, a kitchen, never mind something as superfluous as a garage, the stock steel oil-line fittings were looking pretty nasty. I'd have had to remove them to get them clean anyway, so why not throw on new ones and do a re-route while I'm down there?

On a side note, I was cleaning a couple of years of bugs and road grime off the oil cooler while I had it off and happened to notice THIS:

(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs1375.snc4/164716_537355234139_49802169_31527599_6093008_n.jpg)

cast into the bottom of it.
Title: Re: Loctite vs Anti-seize
Post by: ducpainter on January 25, 2011, 03:55:39 PM
Quote from: Buckethead on January 25, 2011, 03:50:56 PM
Pretty much.

Then again, since I live in the barracks without luxuries like, say, a kitchen, never mind something as superfluous as a garage, the stock steel oil-line fittings were looking pretty nasty. I'd have had to remove them to get them clean anyway, so why not throw on new ones and do a re-route while I'm down there?

On a side note, I was cleaning a couple of years of bugs and road grime off the oil cooler while I had it off and happened to notice THIS:

(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs1375.snc4/164716_537355234139_49802169_31527599_6093008_n.jpg)

cast into the bottom of it.
There was a post around about some other Duc part that KTM made...I don't remember what it was.
Title: Re: Loctite vs Anti-seize
Post by: junior varsity on January 25, 2011, 03:58:01 PM
not seen that before.
Title: Re: Loctite vs Anti-seize
Post by: Buckethead on January 25, 2011, 04:00:10 PM
The "irony" is that I managed to get the lines/fittings off the cooler with no drama whatsoever.  [roll]
Title: Re: Loctite vs Anti-seize
Post by: Triple J on January 26, 2011, 03:07:12 PM
Quote from: Buckethead on January 25, 2011, 03:06:02 PM
Any idea if the threads will create a tight enough seal for the lines if the crush washer doesn't have a perfectly flat surface to crush to? You know, like if PART OF THE make the beast with two backsING ENGINE CASE BROKE AWAY when the stock fittings were removed?

I had the same thing happen to my Monstrada when I replace the oil cooler lines. You'll need a flat surface for the crush washer. I just cleaned the break surface and re-applied the piece that broke off using JB Weld...installing the line before the JB Weld cured so the piece that broke away was undr compression. Be sure not to use too much JB, as you don't want to epoxy your oil cooler liner into the engine. It worked great and never leaked.

Here's the piece that broke off of mine:
(http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n258/JJGeo/Multistrada%20Re-Build/IMG_0592.jpg)

Here's where it broke off...notice the piece missing on the top oil cooler line:
(http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n258/JJGeo/Multistrada%20Re-Build/IMG_0589.jpg)
Title: Re: Loctite vs Anti-seize
Post by: ducatiz on January 26, 2011, 04:23:25 PM
casting flaw

clean it off and use jb weld to put it back if you care.  it isn't big enough to make a difference.
Title: Re: Loctite vs Anti-seize
Post by: corey on January 26, 2011, 05:20:45 PM
Quote from: the_Journeyman on January 23, 2011, 07:03:39 AM
I'll be using anti-seize on my rearset bolts from now on after my latest stuck bolt saga.

JM

amen.
one ride after installing my rizomas, i got a nice suprise at about 80mph... my shifter pedal dangling limp...
Title: Re: Loctite vs Anti-seize
Post by: Buckethead on January 26, 2011, 05:44:20 PM
Quote from: Triple J on January 26, 2011, 03:07:12 PM
[snip] ...notice the piece missing on the top oil cooler line:

EXACTLY. Except my missing chunk is on the top of that fitting. I'll try your solution. I'll also be sure to send off a nastygram to Ducati USA about my experience.

Quote from: corey on January 26, 2011, 05:20:45 PM
amen.
one ride after installing my rizomas, i got a nice suprise at about 80mph... my shifter pedal dangling limp...

Statler knows how to play that game. DIMBY 1.
Title: Re: Loctite vs Anti-seize
Post by: Triple J on January 26, 2011, 09:07:54 PM
Quote from: Buckethead on January 26, 2011, 05:44:20 PM
EXACTLY. Except my missing chunk is on the top of that fitting. I'll try your solution. I'll also be sure to send off a nastygram to Ducati USA about my experience.

Sucks, huh!  >:(

I tightened the bolt somewhat tight, then came back the next day and cranked it down. IIRC, it did leak at first, but a little more tightening solved it.
Title: Re: Loctite vs Anti-seize
Post by: Buckethead on January 28, 2011, 11:18:20 AM
Quote from: Triple J on January 26, 2011, 09:07:54 PM
Sucks, huh!  >:(


Damn right. >:(

(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs800.ash1/169036_537453302609_49802169_31528926_6156047_n.jpg)

This IZ_ cell phone pic of the offender was taken at the crime scene.

(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs781.ash1/167102_537453342529_49802169_31528927_2458995_n.jpg)

This is the damaged area, which friends and family say was traumatized by the vicious attack and likely "will never be the same."