I made this plate to cover the pump hole while doing the Caswell. 07 S4Rs. It uses the plate O-ring for a seal and worked great. If anyone wants to use this send me a PM with your address and I will stick it in the mail. The only thing required for its use is when you are done with it post the same ASAP and pass it on.
I thought because this is such a pain in the butt maybe this could be the "Caswell tips and tricks thread". Please add to it. ;D
(http://i1234.photobucket.com/albums/ff406/DucatiRocket/TankPlate.jpg)
Here are a few tips (some learned the hard way) from my Saturday afternoon adventure into the world of aggravation. Enjoy!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You have more time than you think.
Have a "large" quantity of rags.
Large throw away towel to work on.
Find a throw away cake pan or similar item for the drain, larger the better.
Know how you are going to rest the tank while it drains.
I drained mine out the pump opening as it is away from the outer skin, and it rests easily against a
wall in a pan while it drains. Put a towel in the pan and over the edges to protect your finish
Buy a good size throw away funnel.
2 inch masking tape for the entire back end of the tank. Tape the bolt holes.
Roll up a rag tight and force screw it into the top fill hole. Force it in a couple inches.
I found that "Remoil" made buy Remington cleans Caswell off the tank without hurting the finish. Others might work.
You "WILL" get some on the outside of your tank no matter what and you cannot use a solvent to get it off.
A small amount on one finger and the stuff is all over the outside while you are turning it. Buy a small Remoil.
Do not try to do a tank with just one can, buy two and you will be glad you did. It is so thick and slow it
is an impossibility that one pint would be enough to completely cover the inside.
Take your time moving it around in the tank, it moves very slow. Notice how thick it is and how slow it
moves before dumping it in the tank.
When you start moving the tank around take an analytical approach to what you are doing. As in one minute for one side, one minute each for the outer and inner walls, etc. If you just start rolling it around you will be left wondering if it is getting covered. "When you think you are done do it all again". I moved mine around for 15 minutes and it had not started to set up. Keep telling yourself you have time.
Thin it with two ounces of lacquer thinner as per instructions. It gives you more time to get the inside covered.
Blow out the vent holes last but not least.
If you use a solvent to clean your O-ring, do it quickly as solvents eat at it.
Make sure Ducati R&D's ears ring with praise while you are doing this. [bang]
I ordered a single motorcycle gas tank kit for my '07 S2R prior to reading your post. The Caswell website states that half of their kit should cover a 5 gal. tank. I was planning on mixing it in half batches for two coats. Do you think I will get good coverage this way or is it really better to have two kits? Did you pour a full kit in at a time? If so how much did you pour back out?
To protect the tank I was planning on covering the entire outside w/ blue painters tape. Any reasons not to do this?
Thanks
Quote from: gr1976 on February 01, 2011, 09:11:45 AM
I ordered a single motorcycle gas tank kit for my '07 S2R prior to reading your post. The Caswell website states that half of their kit should cover a 5 gal. tank. I was planning on mixing it in half batches for two coats. Do you think I will get good coverage this way or is it really better to have two kits? Did you pour a full kit in at a time? If so how much did you pour back out?
To protect the tank I was planning on covering the entire outside w/ blue painters tape. Any reasons not to do this?
Thanks
I just coated a tank for a customer and one kit divided in two will do the job. Thinning makes coverage easier. I couldn't get much material back out in half batches. The tank was an S2R style. It may be a function of the hole location. If you thin the product it really slows the set up time making coverage even easier. Temperature will also affect the consistency dramatically.
I also completely covered the tank with tape. It worked great.
How thick is that piece? Is it just PVC or Lucite?
ducpainter - do you thin w/ xylene or lacquer thinner? does it really matter?
Quote from: ducatiz on February 01, 2011, 01:09:42 PM
How thick is that piece? Is it just PVC or Lucite?
It is rigid 1/4 inch plexiglass, it works...... As for the double amount in my tank I was glad I used twice the amount as it gave me confidence that it was totally covered. You can do it with less but IMHO I cannot see how you could get it around the entire inside. Maybe I did not get it thin enough but I thinned two aplications with 2 ounces of lacquer thinner. If you poured honey out of a jar at room temperature that is about it.
It is an expensive two thousand dollar tank, on an expensive bike, why would you worry about $41.00 to be sure it was done right. I would guess half drained out
That is a good idea covering the tank in tape, I should have. [thumbsup]
Quote from: ducatiz on February 01, 2011, 01:09:42 PM
How thick is that piece? Is it just PVC or Lucite?
I made one out of 1/8" plexi and it worked. I used strip caulking for a seal.
Quote from: gr1976 on February 01, 2011, 01:16:44 PM
ducpainter - do you thin w/ xylene or lacquer thinner? does it really matter?
I used lacquer thinner. Lacquer thinner is just a blend of a bunch of nasty solvents which usually includes xylene.
Quote from: BoDiddley on February 01, 2011, 04:18:50 PM
It is rigid 1/4 inch plexiglass, it works...... As for the double amount in my tank I was glad I used twice the amount as it gave me confidence that it was totally covered. You can do it with less but IMHO I cannot see how you could get it around the entire inside. Maybe I did not get it thin enough but I thinned two aplications with 2 ounces of lacquer thinner. If you poured honey out of a jar at room temperature that is about it.
It is an expensive two thousand dollar tank, on an expensive bike, why would you worry about $41.00 to be sure it was done right. I would guess half drained out
That is a good idea covering the tank in tape, I should have. [thumbsup]
My only concern would be further reducing the capacity of an already range limited tank. It has little to do with the money. [thumbsup]
Quote from: gr1976 on February 01, 2011, 09:11:45 AM
I ordered a single motorcycle gas tank kit for my '07 S2R prior to reading your post. The Caswell website states that half of their kit should cover a 5 gal. tank. I was planning on mixing it in half batches for two coats. Do you think I will get good coverage this way or is it really better to have two kits? Did you pour a full kit in at a time? If so how much did you pour back out?
They also advised in the past of which they have changed thier minds about, drywall screws and acetone. Ducpainter you must be a wizard with the stuff to cover with half an aplication. How thin did you get it?
Quote from: BoDiddley on February 01, 2011, 04:34:41 PM
They also advised in the past of which they have changed thier minds about, drywall screws and acetone. Ducpainter you must be a wizard with the stuff to cover with half an aplication. How thin did you get it?
I used one ounce of thinner for a half kit which is more than the 5% they recommend. The recommendations are for old, rusty, and porous tanks that need a thick layer of the product. The Duc tank simply needs to be covered. The additional thinner only adds to the set up time, not the full cure time.
I added the thinner to part A and then mixed part B into it so as not to lose any working time.
I found that at my shop temp of 65 I had no problem, and the material stayed liquid plenty long.
Keep in mind I coat tanks with POR all the time, and POR only gives you 8 oz of product. I can honestly say I've had no reported failures of my work. I wish the Caswell coating had the same consistency as POR, and also wish it wasn't basically clear. It would make the process easier. I may contact Caswell to ask if I could tint the material to make it easier to see where it is or isn't inside the tank.
Quote from: BoDiddley on February 01, 2011, 04:34:41 PM
They also advised in the past of which they have changed thier minds about, drywall screws and acetone.
I downloaded their application instructions and it still states to use acetone and drywall screws. Is there a different prep recommendation now?
Quote from: gr1976 on February 01, 2011, 06:23:45 PM
I downloaded their application instructions and it still states to use acetone and drywall screws. Is there a different prep recommendation now?
If you are coating a new tank I'd skip both.
The drywall screws don't accomplish enough to justify the time IMO.
If you're coating a used tank that's had fuel in it acetone won't do squat.
That tank should be washed out with soap and water to remove fuel residue, POR makes a graet cleaner called 'Marine Clean', then allowed to thoroughly dry before coating.
[disclaimer]
I'm not a chemist. I'm working from experience.
[/end]
I have some of POR's marine clean so that's good news. The tank I am going to coat is used but shows no signs of deformation. I am a little nervous of what chemicals to pour in there that could potentially attack the tank.
Quote from: gr1976 on February 01, 2011, 06:58:20 PM
I have some of POR's marine clean so that's good news. The tank I am going to coat is used but shows no signs of deformation. I am a little nervous of what chemicals to pour in there that could potentially attack the tank.
If I was doing a used plastic tank I wouldn't use warm water in the dilution of the Marine Clean as POR recommends. That might cause rapid absorption of water. You also want to remove excess rinse water as soon as possible to avoid expansion. Air flow through the tank will accelerate drying. The key is to get the tank clean or no product, no matter how good it is, will stick.
As I said, I would avoid solvents because in my experience they are ineffective at removing residue and are bad for the finish.
You can forget about any suggestion of the solvent 'softening' the surface for adhesion. That isn't going to happen from a solvent rinse.
Some day I'd like to get a piece of a Duc tank to see if POR will stick. It's a much friendlier product IMO.
Quote from: gr1976 on February 01, 2011, 06:23:45 PM
I downloaded their application instructions and it still states to use acetone and drywall screws. Is there a different prep recommendation now?
From Caswell
http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=25074.1290 (http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=25074.1290)
Quote from: ducpainter on February 01, 2011, 07:18:16 PM
Some day I'd like to get a piece of a Duc tank to see if POR will stick. It's a much friendlier product IMO.
After we are finished testing I'll send you a slice of one. I have a few tanks I sent for testing. I have one that's a control that isn't being tested (but it's been drilled so unusable). It will be sectioned for some final testing and I'll keep a piece aside.
Quote from: ducatiz on February 02, 2011, 04:47:04 AM
After we are finished testing I'll send you a slice of one. I have a few tanks I sent for testing. I have one that's a control that isn't being tested (but it's been drilled so unusable). It will be sectioned for some final testing and I'll keep a piece aside.
Thanks.
I have a section of PEX tubing that I'm going to test paint adhesion on
someday laying on the bench.
Quote from: ducpainter on February 01, 2011, 07:18:16 PM
If I was doing a used plastic tank I wouldn't use warm water in the dilution of the Marine Clean as POR recommends. That might cause rapid absorption of water. You also want to remove excess rinse water as soon as possible to avoid expansion. Air flow through the tank will accelerate drying. The key is to get the tank clean or no product, no matter how good it is, will stick.
So are you saying to cut the Marine Clean w/ cold water or use it 100%. Do you wash w/ soap and water first? I guess what I am asking is what do you feel is the best way to prep these tanks.
Thanks
Best way IMHO is to wash thoroughly with lukewarm water and hand wash soap (Palmolive, take me away..) Do this a few times until the surface feels clean. Sounds stupid, but gasoline is "slippery" and you can feel it on the surface. The smell will persist for a while.
Then let it sit for a while. I put a small hair drying into the filler with no heat and just left it for a week like that. Of course, the air needs to be dry going in so you need to think about when/where you are doing it. The gas smell should be gone or nearly gone. YMMV
Quote from: gr1976 on February 02, 2011, 07:43:58 AM
So are you saying to cut the Marine Clean w/ cold water or use it 100%. Do you wash w/ soap and water first? I guess what I am asking is what do you feel is the best way to prep these tanks.
Thanks
Mix as suggested.
Just don't use warm water.
The marine clean is soap so it should do the trick. Don't leave it in the tank longer than 10-15 minutes. Agitating will help it work faster.
Rinse thoroughly with about 3-5 gallons of cold water a little at a time. 3 rinses is what I use on a steel tank using the POR products. I realize POR recommends warm water, but that would not be good in this circumstance. When you're done rinsing tip the tank upside down and mop out any water that drains down. If you have clean compressed air flowing air through the tank will help after you've mopped out as much as possible. Oily air from an old compressor would be counter productive. You could also use a vacuum cleaner to suck air through the tank if you have no compressor.
After you think the tank is dry and ready you might want to fit it on the bike to make sure it didn't swell. If it did let it dry longer. Room temps will work better than cold garage temps.
You probably want to wait to tape the tank until after you finish cleaning. Water and tape adhesive don't play nice.
You're kind of on new ground here. I haven't done a used plastic tank...I don't know if anyone has. You might check around the web to find more info from the Sport Classic forums. What I'm suggesting is what I would do based on general experience in the refinishing field.
If you run into trouble I'll try to help you work out of it.
edit...looks like Tizz has done it.
Quote from: ducpainter on February 02, 2011, 08:08:53 AM
edit...looks like Tizz has done it.
I've done it on a replaced tank that only had one fill of gas and then emptied.
if the tank has shown any distortion, i would probably not do it. maybe if it was >JUST< minor expansion but if there is >ANY< rippling in the surface definitely not.
and I would let the tank sit in a dry place with silica packs for a long time first.
Quote from: ducatiz on February 02, 2011, 08:26:39 AM
I've done it on a replaced tank that only had one fill of gas and then emptied.
if the tank has shown any distortion, i would probably not do it. maybe if it was >JUST< minor expansion but if there is >ANY< rippling in the surface definitely not.
and I would let the tank sit in a dry place with silica packs for a long time first.
My experience is that they show surface rippling before they actually expand.
Quote from: ducpainter on February 02, 2011, 08:28:15 AM
My experience is that they show surface rippling before they actually expand.
I have seen both. My tank had lateral expansion and no rippling until right before it got replaced.
They are indicative of the two different problems with the material -- water absorption and ethanol penetration.
I just finished applying the Caswell coating. I wished I had seen your post before i did. The cover for the fuel pump opening would have been key, as well as, putting some duct tape around the fuel opening. I just spent an hour or so scraping the residue off the these areas. In hindsight, I wish i had added more laquer thinner as I only added about 1 oz for the entire pint. It was very thick and was difficult spreading around inside the tank.
Also, I follwed their instructions to cover the tank with cellophane, tin foil, and more cellophane. This sucked becasue as you handle the tank, it all comes off. The tape is a much better idea.
Quote from: ducpainter on February 01, 2011, 04:29:54 PM
My only concern would be further reducing the capacity of an already range limited tank. It has little to do with the money.
I don't think using two cans instead of one has much to do with how much is actually left in the tank. The reason I was glad I used twice the recommended is confidence that the entire inside got covered. It makes sense that a larger quantity moves farther and faster than a small quantity, especially with a substance this thick. With double the quantity I could actually feel where it was going in the tank. Again, I can't see where the amount you put in the tank makes much difference in how much drains out, a large quantity does not drain less, but maybe I am missing something. Earlier I mentioned half drained out. Because I drained it into a pan covered by a towel I have no way of measuring how much actually drained out so I was taking a shot in the dark. I wished I would have weighed my tank before and after. I really do not think a whole can stayed in, and the tank does not "feel" heavier.
I want to add that this is my first and hopefully last experience with a tank and Caswell. Ducpainter as they say "Is the man" so his input should be first and formost. And I get carried away at times with the insanity of having to do this to my tank. But it is what it is............
I took off my tank today to start preparing it for the Caswell coating. I'm sure this is factory but the vent and overflow lines make the tank look like it was already coated. Is this what yours looked like? I'm assuming they must install these prior to manufacturing the tank and it is actual tank material coating these lines. Any tips for getting the Caswell between the lines and tank? Should I not worry about it? My concern is that the coating may try to bridge between the tank and lines then begin to flake off.
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5139/5419924187_806d6ab6ac.jpg)
Quote from: gr1976 on February 05, 2011, 07:50:15 PM
I took off my tank today to start preparing it for the Caswell coating. I'm sure this is factory but the vent and overflow lines make the tank look like it was already coated. Is this what yours looked like? I'm assuming they must install these prior to manufacturing the tank and it is actual tank material coating these lines. Any tips for getting the Caswell between the lines and tank? Should I not worry about it? My concern is that the coating may try to bridge between the tank and lines then begin to flake off.
(http://[url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/19176394@N08/5419924187/#%5Dhttp://www.flickr.com/photos/19176394@N08/5419924187/#%5B/url%5D)
What you're seeing is the way the tank is constructed.
If you do it right those plastic encrusted tubes will get coated also.
Be a Nike and just do it.
We are all going on faith on this based on the manufacturer claiming the product sticks, the reports from other forums claiming success over a period of a couple of years, and reports that Ducati itself has tested the product and found it to be satisfactory to prevent ethanol/water ramifications.
If you over think it it gets harder.
i'm thinking about getting this into my tank... but about your comment concerning the color of the coating... do you think it would change anything if i put some food coloring into the epoxy to make it easier to see the coverage? or do you think that would probably mess it up somehow?
Quote from: thought on February 10, 2011, 07:38:05 PM
i'm thinking about getting this into my tank... but about your comment concerning the color of the coating... do you think it would change anything if i put some food coloring into the epoxy to make it easier to see the coverage? or do you think that would probably mess it up somehow?
As long as it isn't a water based coloring it
probably wouldn't hurt.
That said, after dealing with chemicals as long as I have there is no real way of telling.
Call Caswell and ask...it couldn't hurt.
Quote from: thought on February 10, 2011, 07:38:05 PM
i'm thinking about getting this into my tank... but about your comment concerning the color of the coating... do you think it would change anything if i put some food coloring into the epoxy to make it easier to see the coverage? or do you think that would probably mess it up somehow?
Just curious, How far in the tank can you actually see? Can you see all of it?
Quote from: BoDiddley on February 12, 2011, 08:05:29 AM
Just curious, How far in the tank can you actually see? Can you see all of it?
Not far enough... :P
When you get your fuel pump out you'll have a much better idea. ;)
Definitely can't see all of it.
Quote from: ducpainter on February 12, 2011, 08:43:56 AM
Not far enough... :P
When you get your fuel pump out you'll have a much better idea. ;)
Definitely can't see all of it.
Not trying to be a wiseguy but if you cannot see most of it why worry about what color it is? I have coated mine allready......
just ordered my kit... anyone have any special instructions for the new monster tanks at all or does everything in this thread about cover?
Quote from: BoDiddley on February 15, 2011, 10:04:49 AM
Not trying to be a wiseguy but if you cannot see most of it why worry about what color it is? I have coated mine allready......
Sometimes it makes it easier to determine how things are flowing if you can see the coating.
Quote from: thought on February 21, 2011, 12:58:08 PM
just ordered my kit... anyone have any special instructions for the new monster tanks at all or does everything in this thread about cover?
Pretty much covers it.
Quote from: ducatiz on February 02, 2011, 07:54:58 AM
Best way IMHO is to wash thoroughly with lukewarm water and hand wash soap (Palmolive, take me away..) Do this a few times until the surface feels clean. Sounds stupid, but gasoline is "slippery" and you can feel it on the surface. The smell will persist for a while.
in order to do it this route, you just pour in the soap/water and just agitate it and it will rinse out eventually?
tank is off the bike now and i'm prepping it for the caswell... wanted to make sure that i didnt have to try to scrub it in some fashion that i cant for the life of me figure out how to do. haha
That should be fine. You're just trying to solublize the gas remaining.
cool, thanks... it's drying now and i'll put on the coating in a couple of days :)
kk, just finished the coating... and here are my thoughts on it... and these are based off of doing it on a m796
a) masking tape everything... the epoxy gets everywhere, so even though the the new monster tanks are covered with the plastic skins so you wont see the extra epoxy, the masking tape is way easier to get off than the epoxy. it makes it nicer overall. wearing some rubber gloves is also nice when mixing/pouring the stuff in.
b) without thinner, i cant see how anyone could get this to cover anything before it cures. i wound up using the whole bottle because the first batch i mixed up had way too little thinner. it moved about the same speed as slow molasses, which was making it impossible to get it to coat anything. the issue was that i put the thinner into the a component of the epoxy thinking that it wouldnt thicken that much more that quickly once combined with the b component... which it did. i would suggest tossing a bit of thinner into a first, and then adjusting the thickness with a dash or two of thinner after you mix in b. the second batch flowed about the same speed as honey... which was slow, but doable. and that much thinner with greatly increased the time before it cured... which also forces you to keep moving it around a lot till it does.
c) for the new monster tanks, make sure you get the tops of the bumps inside the tank. the bumps are from where there are any screw holes on the outside... and then epoxy tends to just flow around the bumps as opposed to over them, leaving the tops uncovered. i used a long stick to push the epoxy around to get the coverage. i got every one i could see, and tried to move around the epoxy as much as possible in the parts i couldnt see/reach
d) i agree with dp that you can use a half can for the whole tank easily if it's the correct viscosity
I plan to finally coat my S2R the tank this weekend. I washed it a few days ago by first filling it halfway with lukewarm water and dishsoap followed by two rounds of a 1:1 (cup each) ratio of luke warm water and POR Marine Clean fully rinsing between each cleaning cycle. I checked the tank last night and I still have a slight gas odor. Felt the area inside where the fuel pump mounts and it did not feel oily, but it's sort of hard to tell since the material is naturally slick.
I am wondering if I should pour in a bottle of rubbing alcohol? Drain and let evaporate with out a water rinse. Might be a bad idea since ethanol is causing the problems. Maybe another round of cleaning with the Marine Clean? Part of me realizes that the gas smell will never go away, but the other part is nervous about painting something that smells like gasoline.
Alcohol won't remove the petrochemicals.
The 'Marine Clean' instructions say it needs to be in the tank for a minimum of 20 minutes. If you accomplished that with your two cleaning cycles you should be fine.
Quote from: ducpainter on March 11, 2011, 07:52:14 AM
Alcohol won't remove the petrochemicals.
that's good to know...i might give it one more washing
thanks
I finally got around to coating the tank this weekend. All in all it was pretty painless.
What I did:
1. Prepped the tank by washing it first with lukewarm water and dish soap followed by two washes using a 1:1 mix of POR's Marine clean and warm water. (Keep in mind this is a used tank. I just purchased the bike, it's an '07 w/ 400 miles. So while not a lot of gas has been through it its had gas in it since '07.)
2. Sealed fuel pump opening w/ 1/8" plexiglas and plumbers putty
3. Coated tank with blue painters tape.
4. Mixed the Casswell kit in half batches each thinned with one once of Xylene - per ducpainter's recommendation
5. Poured first batch in and moved the tank around for about 15 minutes until I could not see much flowing down to the plexiglas window when I stood the tank up.
6. I then inverted it over an aluminum foil roasting pan inside a cardboard box. The box lets you easily position the tank to get the filler neck at the lowest point to drain any excess. I didn't get much out after the first batch and the coating stayed fluid longer than I expected. I noticed the coating was dripping from the bottom of the tank to the top when it was inverted. I would flip the tank every 10 minutes and if any material pooled by the fuel pump opening I would stand it up and let it run to the front. This also gave me a chance to clean out the filler neck.
7. After about an hour and and a half the coating inside the tank had thickened up quite a bit and I applied the second coat. I got more out after I inverted it this time, but would still rotate the tank every 10 minutes or so for the next hour to ensure uniform coverage. The picture below is the entire amount that came out after both applications.
What I would do different:
1. Remove the plexi window after the final coat has set up initially. I removed mine the next day and as soon as I looked at it I knew I should have done it sooner. Since the coating on the glass is one with the coating in the tank it made it hard to remove and it removed a little bit of the coating around the fuel pump opening when prying it off.
2. Maybe thin it a little less. I had my garage @ 65 deg. and it flowed like warm honey and was very workable. Thinning it less could have prevented the need from having to invert the tank back and forth. However, while I was babysitting it, I did chop the tail.
All in all I am pleased with the results. Lets hope it holds up and prevents any deformation.
Good Luck
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5176/5529571988_9da442f12f.jpg)
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5013/5529572010_6510633c6f.jpg)
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5293/5528984181_b8bc8ce919.jpg)
Excellent writeup and pics, thanks! [thumbsup] [thumbsup]
Keep posting Information on results if you have recently coated your tank. Tell us how it went!
some more info in this thread:
http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=54297.0 (http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=54297.0)
Quote from: ducpainter on February 01, 2011, 06:32:49 PM
If you are coating a new tank I'd skip both.
The drywall screws don't accomplish enough to justify the time IMO.
If you're coating a used tank that's had fuel in it acetone won't do squat.
That tank should be washed out with soap and water to remove fuel residue, POR makes a graet cleaner called 'Marine Clean', then allowed to thoroughly dry before coating.
Checking my understanding, is it necessary to wash out a virgin, never-seen-gas, tank with acetone, soap and water, or Marine Clean? Can I can skip this wash-and-dry step and get straight to lining? I want to get this prep step right.
Thanks,
Jeff
Yes, IMO you can.
'tiz thinks abrasion is a good idea.
I think because the access is so limited, the chemical will either work, or not.
It has seemed to work if coverage is good.
I will say... in my experience there is no way you can get 100% coverage regardless of number of coats if you don't thin the product.
Good luck.
Quote from: jgrm1 on January 03, 2012, 08:12:54 AM
Checking my understanding, is it necessary to wash out a virgin, never-seen-gas, tank with acetone, soap and water, or Marine Clean? Can I can skip this wash-and-dry step and get straight to lining? I want to get this prep step right.
Thanks,
Jeff
Nah, you don't need to.
I would try to rough up the surface some -- use a finishing brush with hard plastic bristles. You won't get everywhere but it helps adhesion. Do not use the nails as in the Caswell directions.
Quote from: ducatiz on January 03, 2012, 08:18:32 AM
Nah, you don't need to.
I would try to rough up the surface some -- use a finishing brush with hard plastic bristles. You won't get everywhere but it helps adhesion. Do not use the nails as in the Caswell directions.
I asked my question about prepping a virgin tank at the Caswell site and received this response:
...Yes, you can skip the solvent and water, but we don't advise skipping the drywall screws. The surface of the plastic tank needs to be roughed up to ensure adhesion of the sealer...
This agrees with what ducatiz has been saying about roughing up the surface. Now, to figure out the most thorough method.
-Jeff
Quote from: jgrm1 on January 04, 2012, 08:00:12 AM
I asked my question about prepping a virgin tank at the Caswell site and received this response:
...Yes, you can skip the solvent and water, but we don't advise skipping the drywall screws. The surface of the plastic tank needs to be roughed up to ensure adhesion of the sealer...
This agrees with what ducatiz has been saying about roughing up the surface. Now, to figure out the most thorough method.
-Jeff
the problem with using the screws is that people
HAVE gotten one or two stuck in the tank. there are too many crevices which are small and a screw will get stuck. the inner surface is small.
Caswell does not have ANY experience with the nylon tanks, they have rebuffed my attempts to get them to test it in-house. He is giving his opinion based on zero experience. His product works so far -- there are people with caswell-coated tanks that are 2 and 3 years old -- but i'd rather have something more concrete.
Using screws (or nails) is fine for a metal tank, the inner surface is hard and a screw can't get stuck. IT's a great way of removing scale or rust before etching the tank.
But with a SOFT nylon surface, you're playing with fire.
I remember reading about the "lost" screws. You mention using a brush except it is difficult to reach all the surfaces. I was wondering about grit blasting, but then you risk embedding the media in the surface of the tank or damaging the surface.
-Jeff
I personally would avoid grit inside the tank.
The sealer should encase any you don't remove, but it will make a mess, and you can't get everywhere even with that method.
I have used the drywall screw method and it is possible to get them all out.
I still say that the properties of the epoxy will give adequate adhesion on a new tank regardless what you do to prep.
All this coating needs to do is stay there. It isn't like a jb weld repair that you're going to thread and bolt a manifold to.
Quote from: jgrm1 on January 04, 2012, 08:20:26 AM
I remember reading about the "lost" screws. You mention using a brush except it is difficult to reach all the surfaces. I was wondering about grit blasting, but then you risk embedding the media in the surface of the tank or damaging the surface.
-Jeff
a detail brush. basically a hard plastic toothbrush. major pain to use but you can get most of it.
I asked Caswells which tint they recommend found locally that works with their liner. Their response was:
...Any dye that works in oil based paint...
They also referred me to this FAQ on their site: http://support.caswellplating.com/index.php?/Knowledgebase/Article/View/83/0/can-you-tint-gas-tank-sealer (http://support.caswellplating.com/index.php?/Knowledgebase/Article/View/83/0/can-you-tint-gas-tank-sealer)
-Jeff