Ducati Monster Forum

Moto Board => Tech => Topic started by: UberRacing on February 01, 2011, 06:58:14 PM

Title: Monster 1000 Engine compatibility
Post by: UberRacing on February 01, 2011, 06:58:14 PM
Does anyone know if a 2005(6) S2R1000 (DS1000) motor will fit in a 2005 Monster 1000S? I'm not sure since the M1000 is the dual sided swingarm and the S2R1000 is SSSA.

Thanks!
Title: Re: Monster 1000 Engine compatibility
Post by: zooom on February 02, 2011, 06:31:27 AM
I think(?) that the casing for the swingarm mounting is different due that difference...but someone like Duck-Stew or otherwise technically minded can answer for sure.
Title: Re: Monster 1000 Engine compatibility
Post by: Travman on February 02, 2011, 06:49:27 AM
I'm thinking it is the same despite the different swingarms. I think we've seen a project where a guy put a S2R1000 swingarm on dual sided swingarm Monster. That would indicate compatability.  However, I don't really know. Someone with more technical knowledge will come along and post soon.
Title: Re: Monster 1000 Engine compatibility
Post by: 671M900 on February 02, 2011, 08:14:11 PM
I think the swingarm shouldn't matter. You can put s*r rearsets on a dss monster if you have the pivot, indicating they have the same dimensions. The swinger is a bit different I think due to the top mount. The m620/695 I saw with a sss I think had to invert or rotate the shock a little to get it to fit.
Title: Re: Monster 1000 Engine compatibility
Post by: UberRacing on February 04, 2011, 04:07:32 PM
ok thanks. Seems worth a shot but I was hoping someone may have the
measurements (inside the swingarm verses width of the motor mounting point) before I would
commit to buying. I could also check with a dealer mechanic....
Title: Re: Monster 1000 Engine compatibility
Post by: Travman on February 04, 2011, 04:13:44 PM
You could try derbyed the same question in the Tech section.  You should get a more definite answer there. 
Title: Re: Monster 1000 Engine compatibility
Post by: Duck-Stew on February 08, 2011, 05:03:18 AM
Yes.  Both the '05 M1000S and the '06-'08 S2R1000 have the wide swingarm pivots.  I have done this swap a few times.
Title: Re: Monster 1000 Engine compatibility
Post by: UberRacing on February 08, 2011, 03:23:28 PM
very cool thanks for the confirmation!
Title: Re: Monster 1000 Engine compatibility
Post by: krista on February 10, 2011, 12:49:19 AM
Actually, the telling factor is whether the frame extends down to the swingarm pivot.

If the swingarm pivots without a frame, it's the "wider" case with the swingarm pivot bearings in it. Like the S2R family.

If the swingarm is "supported" by the frame it has the 916 type swingarm pivot. Like a multistrada.
Title: Re: Monster 1000 Engine compatibility
Post by: Blue on February 10, 2011, 08:10:39 AM
Quote from: chris on February 10, 2011, 12:49:19 AM
Actually, the telling factor is whether the frame extends down to the swingarm pivot.

If the swingarm pivots without a frame, it's the "wider" case with the swingarm pivot bearings in it. Like the S2R family.

If the swingarm is "supported" by the frame it has the 916 type swingarm pivot. Like a multistrada.
So, one could put a M1100 engine in a hooped framed M900, should they be so inclined.  Correct?
Title: Re: Monster 1000 Engine compatibility
Post by: krista on February 10, 2011, 10:42:07 AM
Yup!
Title: Re: Monster 1000 Engine compatibility
Post by: koko64 on February 10, 2011, 02:39:26 PM
There's a long term plan; 1100 DS, DP cams, thin head gasket, split FCR 41s, ignitech, 100 hp [drool].
Title: Re: Monster 1000 Engine compatibility
Post by: Speeddog on February 10, 2011, 03:35:47 PM
Quote from: Blue on February 10, 2011, 08:10:39 AM
So, one could put a M1100 engine in a hooped framed M900, should they be so inclined.  Correct?

Your M900 exhaust won't fit, the throttle bodies will fight with a frame crossmember, etc.

Not what I'd call a bolt-up, but definitely feasible.
Title: Re: Monster 1000 Engine compatibility
Post by: Duck-Stew on February 10, 2011, 03:52:42 PM
Also, all Ducati motors from 2001 & up have 12mm engine mounting bolts so you'll have to deal w/that on an earlier frame'd swap.
Title: Re: Monster 1000 Engine compatibility
Post by: evoasis on February 11, 2011, 09:59:17 AM
The problem I experienced with my 620 with a 1000DS swap was the headers not matching at all...
Title: Re: Monster 1000 Engine compatibility
Post by: hnracing on February 11, 2011, 01:30:50 PM
koko64 said: There's a long term plan; 1100 DS, DP cams, thin head gasket, split FCR 41s, ignitech, 100 hp.
Thats the way to go.
For a first gen Carbed Monster. M600, M750 & M900.
Parts needed:
Engine:
1000DS from M1000, 1000SS or Classic range. Not MTS.
1100DS or 1100 EVO from M1100. Not MTS or Hym.
Header
Use a M1000 DSS but the rear one needs a bit of "adjustment"
Or modify the M600 or M900 header.
Ignition coils with dual output

12mm engine mounting bolts hole
Just put a 12mm t=1mm copper pipe in the engine casing.

Thats about it

If you want to go the injection way you also need
- wiring harness
- ecu
- fuel pump you can use a external one and use the drain hole for the return fuel line
- TB  it is only the rubber between TB & airbox that is fouled by the frame crossmember
- instrument

/Henrik
M600 -96 with M1000DS engine DP cam, TPO Beast DP header running modified 15M ECU.
This winters upgrade 1078cc, Pistal HC & some head job.

Title: Re: Monster 1000 Engine compatibility
Post by: koko64 on February 11, 2011, 03:00:20 PM
Thanks Henrik

It sounds doable.
If there was a problem with the rear carb hitting the frame cross member I would relocate it if I was going to the trouble to replace the whole motor and the issues associated with that.

The other option (and this all depends on price), would be to get Brook Henry to fit big valves, ST2 or Vee Two cams and reconfigure the heads with raised ports and narrower included valve angle on a 944 motor. He has come out of retirement. In Oz DS motors are worth alot of money, even a 900 carbed motor is 3-4 grand.
Title: Re: Monster 1000 Engine compatibility
Post by: Duck-Stew on February 11, 2011, 07:59:21 PM
Henrick:  How does the rear cylinder port on a M1000 header need any work?  Suspension clearance? 
Title: Re: Monster 1000 Engine compatibility
Post by: hnracing on February 12, 2011, 08:09:14 AM
koko64: Just make sure you get the correct FCR41, one of each type and adjust the inlet so the bowl is in correct level.
Duck-Stew: The old type swingarm with a hoop gives you clearence issue with the rear header.
- The original M1000 DSS header needed the rear first part to be adjusted to clear the swingarm.
- The DP M1000 DSS header needed the spring mountings to be relocated to clear the swingarm.
And the front header to be shorted a bit at the rear end. To move everything forward.
Title: Re: Monster 1000 Engine compatibility
Post by: babyonboard on December 07, 2019, 09:51:52 AM
Quote from: hnracing on February 11, 2011, 01:30:50 PM
koko64 said: There's a long term plan; 1100 DS, DP cams, thin head gasket, split FCR 41s, ignitech, 100 hp.
Thats the way to go.
For a first gen Carbed Monster. M600, M750 & M900.
Parts needed:
Engine:
1000DS from M1000, 1000SS or Classic range. Not MTS.
1100DS or 1100 EVO from M1100. Not MTS or Hym.
Header
Use a M1000 DSS but the rear one needs a bit of "adjustment"
Or modify the M600 or M900 header.
Ignition coils with dual output

12mm engine mounting bolts hole
Just put a 12mm t=1mm copper pipe in the engine casing.

Thats about it

If you want to go the injection way you also need
- wiring harness
- ecu
- fuel pump you can use a external one and use the drain hole for the return fuel line
- TB  it is only the rubber between TB & airbox that is fouled by the frame crossmember
- instrument

/Henrik
M600 -96 with M1000DS engine DP cam, TPO Beast DP header running modified 15M ECU.
This winters upgrade 1078cc, Pistal HC & some head job.



Hi  All

The above can be done also on a later monster series as i undersetand or these motors are compatible only with the old Ms?
Title: Re: Monster 1000 Engine compatibility
Post by: Duck-Stew on December 07, 2019, 10:17:25 AM
Quote from: babyonboard on December 07, 2019, 09:51:52 AM
Hi  All

The above can be done also on a later monster series as i undersetand or these motors are compatible only with the old Ms?

What year Monster are you thinking of swapping the 1000/11000 engine into?
Title: Re: Monster 1000 Engine compatibility
Post by: Duck-Stew on December 12, 2019, 04:12:12 PM
Dude dug an 8 year old post out of a peaceful retirement to ask 1 question in someone else's thread as his post #1 and then vanishes...   [roll]
Title: Re: Monster 1000 Engine compatibility
Post by: stopintime on December 12, 2019, 04:21:56 PM
It took you almost half an hour to reply, so of course his attention span is greatly exceeded..... Young guy perhaps?  ;D

Title: Re: Monster 1000 Engine compatibility
Post by: Duck-Stew on December 12, 2019, 04:25:13 PM
Quote from: stopintime on December 12, 2019, 04:21:56 PM
It took you almost half an hour to reply, so of course his attention span is greatly exceeded..... Young guy perhaps?  ;D



Must be.  Guessing this is dead in the water...

A 797 swapped with an 1100 motor might be cool.  All 821/1200 bikes require engine mounts to the heads, so that's out.

Heck, you can BUY an 1100 Scrambler with a warranty. Why swap?
Title: Re: Monster 1000 Engine compatibility
Post by: stopintime on December 12, 2019, 04:32:42 PM
Quote from: Duck-Stew on December 12, 2019, 04:25:13 PM
Must be.  Guessing this is dead in the water...

A 797 swapped with an 1100 motor might be cool.  All 821/1200 bikes require engine mounts to the heads, so that's out.

Heck, you can BUY an 1100 Scrambler with a warranty. Why swap?

1100 Scrambler needs more breathing mods than is 'possible'.

I like the 797. It looks very basic and light. Ten plastic pieces removed + a proper engine = fast & fun.
Title: Re: Monster 1000 Engine compatibility
Post by: Duck-Stew on December 12, 2019, 04:41:11 PM
Cylinder head & throttle body swap?  Could be good.  The new 1100 is quite restricted with that single TB.  I rode a Scrambler 800 and it felt SO weak compared to an S2R800.
Title: Re: Monster 1000 Engine compatibility
Post by: stopintime on December 12, 2019, 04:47:31 PM
Maybe EURO5 problems are solved with only the one TB .....  Anyway: no reason why an 1100 Desert Sled shouldn't have a good engine  8)
Title: Re: Monster 1000 Engine compatibility
Post by: koko64 on December 12, 2019, 06:23:04 PM
Quote from: Duck-Stew on December 12, 2019, 04:41:11 PM
Cylinder head & throttle body swap?  Could be good.  The new 1100 is quite restricted with that single TB.  I rode a Scrambler 800 and it felt SO weak compared to an S2R800.

+1. Motor felt pretty soft when I rode one.
Title: Re: Monster 1000 Engine compatibility
Post by: hnracing on February 13, 2020, 10:08:44 AM
Anyone that have seen the Scrambler 1100 dual spark cylinder heads IRL?
Want to know if they are just the old ones or a version of the evo cylinder heads.
The spec of the cams seems to be softer then the standard 1000/1100 ds cams.
Note that the gearbox have the short ratio gears. So without the long 6th gear.
1=37/15 2=30/17 3=28/20 4=26/22 5=24/23 6=23/24
Maybe the intake could be used for carbs.
Title: Re: Monster 1000 Engine compatibility
Post by: Speeddog on February 13, 2020, 10:23:25 AM
Close ratio box on an 1100 twin.  [roll]
Title: Re: Monster 1000 Engine compatibility
Post by: Duck-Stew on February 13, 2020, 01:41:10 PM
Quote from: Speeddog on February 13, 2020, 10:23:25 AM
Close ratio box on an 1100 twin.  [roll]

+1

I haven't seen the 1100 Scrambler heads IRL.  But, given the Euro-5 emissions specs, they likely have a great combustion chamber and are restricted by the cams and single TB.  Ports are likely good too.  My $.02.
Title: Re: Re: Monster 1000 Engine compatibility
Post by: MadJack on February 19, 2020, 04:25:45 AM
Quote from: Duck-Stew on February 08, 2011, 05:03:18 AM
Yes.  Both the '05 M1000S and the '06-'08 S2R1000 have the wide swingarm pivots.  I have done this swap a few times.
What about the '04 M1000?

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Re: Monster 1000 Engine compatibility
Post by: Speeddog on February 19, 2020, 07:46:33 AM
Quote from: MadJack on February 19, 2020, 04:25:45 AM
What about the '04 M1000?

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


The '04 M1000 has the wide cases with the pivot bearings in them, yes.
Title: Re: Re: Monster 1000 Engine compatibility
Post by: ducpainter on February 20, 2020, 12:14:50 PM
Quote from: MadJack on February 19, 2020, 04:25:45 AM
What about the '04 M1000?

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


Please remove the tapatalk sit from your phone...
http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=73379.msg1351052#msg1351052
Title: Re: Monster 1000 Engine compatibility
Post by: MadJack on February 20, 2020, 01:36:32 PM
Done
Title: Re: Monster 1000 Engine compatibility
Post by: Speeddog on February 20, 2020, 01:47:44 PM
Quote from: MadJack on February 20, 2020, 01:36:32 PM
Done

Thanks.
Title: Re: Monster 1000 Engine compatibility
Post by: ducpainter on February 20, 2020, 01:59:16 PM
Quote from: Speeddog on February 20, 2020, 01:47:44 PM
Thanks.
Ditto [thumbsup]