I need to get a car preferably used, to use a a commuter. I have a jeep Grand Cherokee and get 17mpg. I drive at least 110 miles round trip to work mostly highway and about 35k a year. If I can get a car that gets 30mpg I can save over $200 a month which would hopefully cover the cost of the commuter plus save wear and tear on my jeep. I've seen used tdi's for under $10k. They say about 45mpg. Are they good reliable cars? I know VW has shit interiors and everything falls apart ( the few I have known people to own) but that's OK with me.
I was checking out some of these wvo bio-diesel kits. It looks pretty interesting. I have access to oil from the restaurants my business services. I can get as much as I need and have a few hours during the week to make it. The kits I saw online let you run both so if I don't have any Bio I can just run regular diesel. Anyone have experience in this?
A couple of the local restaurant owners run veggie in several vehicles. They all use the heated tank systems and start on regular diesel.
I know nothing about the biodiesel kits but so far so good on my TDI. I bought it in August and am just over 30k on it so far with mid forties being the norm for the cold weather and more like 50+ when it was warmer out. Not sure how comparable mine is to the previous ones but I like it a lot.
Quote from: mookieo2 on February 07, 2011, 02:42:41 PM
I need to get a car preferably used, to use a a commuter. I have a jeep Grand Cherokee and get 17mpg. I drive at least 110 miles round trip to work mostly highway and about 35k a year. If I can get a car that gets 30mpg I can save over $200 a month which would hopefully cover the cost of the commuter plus save wear and tear on my jeep. I've seen used tdi's for under $10k. They say about 45mpg. Are they good reliable cars? I know VW has shit interiors and everything falls apart ( the few I have known people to own) but that's OK with me.
I was checking out some of these wvo bio-diesel kits. It looks pretty interesting. I have access to oil from the restaurants my business services. I can get as much as I need and have a few hours during the week to make it. The kits I saw online let you run both so if I don't have any Bio I can just run regular diesel. Anyone have experience in this?
sounds like you'de be better off in a early to mid 80's Mercedes Benz 280D or 300D....just sayin...
Quote from: zooom on February 07, 2011, 05:19:52 PM
sounds like you'de be better off in a early to mid 80's Mercedes Benz 280D or 300D....just sayin...
'cuz it's a better car. [evil]
Quote from: ducpainter on February 07, 2011, 05:22:24 PM
'cuz it's a better car. [evil]
pfft, my TDI will crush it
hell the guy in the BMW 540i didn't know what hit him when I backed off from him before a corner, carried a hell of a lot more speed through it and shot past him on the straight at the exit and I was happy to see a Civic Si can't pull away from me when we are both going over 100 up a hill. [thumbsup]
Take that Grandpa's diesel [cheeky]
some of you guys know...I have a thing for Dubs, and it is somewhat occupational...but I am being practical here...
the Benz has a better framework for doing a seperate tank and heater system if you are REALLY serious and if you are spending that many miles in something everyday...it might as well be damn comfortable...
otherwise...just buy one of these...
http://www.dieselbike.net/militaryproduction/militaryproduction.htm (http://www.dieselbike.net/militaryproduction/militaryproduction.htm)
:o
that and a new Aerostitch and I would be content...for a while
My wife has a 2.0TDi golf and gets 55+mpg driving local but when on a long run 65mpg is a regular figure on the dash board computer, Oh yeh did I tell you that at the moment diesel is around $2 a litre over here in the UK ... [bang] so good mileage is important... [bow_down]
[coffee]
I have a little experience making bio-diesel using the fryer oil, NaOH and Methanol. If you can get the pH down on the final product, it works pretty good but has more gelling problems than standard diesel in cold weather.
Just want to point out that $200/mo is $2400 a year, so you'd just be breaking even on that $10,000 commuter four(4) years from now. Nothing wrong with looking to save on gas money, but just make sure the price of admission is worth it.
Quote from: Drjones on February 08, 2011, 04:49:06 AM
Just want to point out that $200/mo is $2400 a year, so you'd just be breaking even on that $10,000 commuter four(4) years from now. Nothing wrong with looking to save on gas money, but just make sure the price of admission is worth it.
I think the idea is that the car would pay for itself. He would be netting whatever the car was worth after four years, not breaking even. No matter how that works out, he would be doing better than paying the same amount in gas, taking additional depreciation on his Jeep, and not having another car with some equity in it.
+1 on the MB diesel. I really like the looks of the late 70s (W123) models, but they're gutless in NA form, and the turbos are hard to find. The 80s MBs are what I think of when someone says "stay classy", but I am sure it would make an excellent commuter.
I'm a big fan of the VW TDi. As far as the quality goes, they have a bad reputation, but we have 4 of them in our family now and not one has experienced any problems. FWIW
I like the older Benz idea too. The engine is rock solid if I remember right. Something to consider though, if you have to fix anything on the Benz (and with a 20-30 year old car...that is quite likely) parts seem to be higher than even the VW parts. Something to think about.
Thanks guys. I can't see myself driving an old MB. Ill stick to a golf or Jetta. I dont need it to be a nice car. I already have a new 3 series. As far as money being saved, if I can break even in a few years that's ok with me. If gas goes up to $4 a gallon, driving at least 550 miles a week /17mpg * $4 * 52 weeks =$6700. If diesel is $5 a gallon 550/45mpg*$5*52 =$3100 so in a year I could save over $3k. Most of the cars I could find were under $10 a lot were around 7 or 8 k. If I invest in the wvo setup for a grand ( it would be mostly as a hobby ) but if it works I could save even more after a year or two. That's just my reasoning let me know if it makes sense.
well...you can find Benz 300D's all day long in the 3-6 grand range in decent condition and it be a ready to rock and roll commuter with plenty of life left(SEEN MORE THAN A FEW MAKE IT WELL PAST 300,000 MILES)...it'll be an overall cheaper investment...still solid...better chassis and more room for the additional WVO parts you'll need to put in when you go that route...and Benz is pretty good about keeping parts around for their older models whereas VW is starting to work on phasing people out of their older VW's rather than encouraging ( with plentiful parts ability) them to keep them on the road long term for 30 years and a half million miles like they used to do...
I am a VW owner as well as a parts guy at a VW dealer....I am telling you what I am telling you for a reason(multiple actually)...I like to sell parts and make money and I hate to hear people pregnant dog...and most VW owners I see at my dealership in this area who run WVO are either so far off the reservation as far as personality and reality that it doesn't matter what you tell them ....or they are just hard headed and ignorant about all the damage they caused by doing some dumb shit themselves and are full of every other asshole's opinions from the internet as valid solid fact....
I read it on the net...
it must be true. ;D
zooom is right about the waste veggie thing. The older diesel engines were much more tolerant of it, and there is more room for the hardware.
That said one of the restaurant vehicles running around on it is one of those newer Mercedes panel vans. They are, however, only using filtered fryolator oil from a heated tank without all the nasty chemicals added.
Good luck on your decision.
Thanks. Are parts for a 2003- 2005 becoming scarce already?
WVO aside, everyone claims 45 MPG highway with a manual TDI. Diesel right now is $.40 more a gallon than regular. I'm not sure if that difference goes up as a percentage as gas goes up. Even if its $1 more I will still save a lot of money over my current situation.
If I'd attempted the wvo it would probably take me a long time to research the most reliable way about it. Its just something that sparked my interest. For the record I'm not a crazy hippy tree hugger environmentalist. I have pretty good electrical and mechanical skills. It would be more for the cheap ass nerd in me. I just like to waste time building and designing things, just to do them.
I currently have an '05 Golf TDI and I love it, but I would not try converting that engine (PD) to WVO/SVO. They really pushed the envelope on cam run injectors with them and moved to CR type diesel in the new '09 and later models. Mine gets 35 city/mixed and 50 highway. I typically drive like an a-hole too, so if you drive nicer, you'll get better mileage. My highway mileage is averaging 70-75 mph on the straights. I have 95k on the clock. I love this little car. My interior looks GREAT, mainly because I don't treat cars like shit. If you don't keep it clean, it will degrade -- in every car I've seen with a crappy interior I've been able to find half a box of french fries, a few open taco bell sauce packets and other crap under the driver seat/parking brake well. Some people take a dump in their cars and whine that they don't look brand new 10 years later... [roll]
I know you said you don't see getting an MB but the 300 series diesels are around and can be had for fairly cheap and convert very easily. I see used ones for 4000-9000 in my area depending on condition and mileage. Ironically, many of them are owned by oldsters that think they are troublesome and are selling them low. I have neighbors down the street with a 1980 300SD. They have treated it well -- it has 180k miles on it and it's a 3rd car for them. I am getting it for cheapo when they move in a few months. Yes, it will get a WVO conversion.
Gotta agree with zooom and ducatiz,if you plan on running WVO an older MB is the way to go. Any new diesel, not just VW is not as tolerant to WVO. If the WVO is clean enough and good quality you might get away with it, bit ask zooom about the price of an injector pump and injectors. 1.9 VW diesels will be in short supply in New York since there were a few years there were no 50 state diesels. Used diesels from other states can be registered in New York, but it is a PITA.
http://www.nydmv.state.ny.us/register.htm#california (http://www.nydmv.state.ny.us/register.htm#california)
A friend of mine installs WVO systems. IMO, for you it is a good DYI task though and I'm sure my friend would be glad to talk to you.
Other marques to look at? Mitsubishi. If you can find a Mitsu diesel, they are like a TANK. Ford used them in their 1983-1987 Escorts and Rangers. They are complicated but bullet proof -- bonus, the exhaust pipe is a straight pipe, no cat.
Diesel? Blasphemy. What's next, half electric and half gasoline cars? ;)
Quote from: mookieo2 on February 08, 2011, 11:27:08 AM
Thanks. Are parts for a 2003- 2005 becoming scarce already?
WVO aside, everyone claims 45 MPG highway with a manual TDI. Diesel right now is $.40 more a gallon than regular. I'm not sure if that difference goes up as a percentage as gas goes up. Even if its $1 more I will still save a lot of money over my current situation.
MK4 Jetta/Golf parts are not becoming scarce yet per sey...but I see it happening with the previous generation/body of cars where in the past they supported the parts structure of a body/generation for well more than 10 years beyond it's run...nowadays, I see them trying to stick to the 10 year run and be done...
now, if you are dead set on WVO'ing a VW, then the VW you want to use is a 96-97 Passat or a 98 Jetta TDi...otherwise, the various tolerances of the vehicles fuel and fuel management system and array of electronics for monitoring will haunt you once you start the process...PD TDi and CR TDi both also are not built for the slop factor of WVO and you can run into serious issues, which is where an older less electronic Diesel with more of a "slop" tolerance made to it ( like the 300D for example) ends up being a much better candidate, especially if you are serious about this as a long term/long haul vehicle run this way...
Some great info guys. Thanks. I'm going to keep looking around. Hopefully I can get my taxes done soon. So I can buy one with some of my return. I doubt ill go the MB. I just can't see myself driving one of those. Ill stick to the golf or Jetta even though I'm partial to the golf.
Howie if I get one I may have to pick your friends brain about this WVO sytems. I'm m going to keep doing some more research on it in the meantime.
I know this might seem like a crazy idea given this is a motorcycle board, but what about riding your motorcycle? It may not fit your work situation, but I thought I'd toss that up there.
For what it's worth, when I sold my perfect running 82 300D, it had 371000 miles on the original motor and transmission.
I looked into TDIs, but the small, gas-engine-derived 1.9 has nothing on the purpose-built, over-engineered MB OM617. I haven't personally seen a TDI with over 200k but I have personally seen several 300Ds with over 300k.
You don't need an extra tank to run biodiesel on a TDI or a Benz diesel of any stripe, although Viton fuel lines are a good idea. You do need one to run waste vegetable oil; as stated, you start on diesel, and once the veg oil's warm, switch to the other tank. You also shut down on diesel. Biodiesel is veggie oil (new or waste) that has been chemically altered; you use a reactor to "crack" the esters in veggie oil to convert it into something similar to diesel. It just goes in the regular fuel tank. You can buy it at some fuel stations; B5 is 5% bio and 95% dino, B20 20% bio, and B100 as you might guess is pure bio.
If you're into bio, I strongly recommend "From the fryer to the fuel tank," which tells you how to make your own.
Whichever you choose, you'll gain weight! The exhaust smells like french fries, or donuts, or whatever was cooked in the oil!
Quote from: sugarcrook on February 08, 2011, 09:25:00 PM
I know this might seem like a crazy idea given this is a motorcycle board, but what about riding your motorcycle? It may not fit your work situation, but I thought I'd toss that up there.
110 miles a day moto commute is pretty aggressive.
That'd be 4 major services a year on a Duc.
I kinda miss my '06 TDI Beetle (although I have to admit my GTI is a LOT more fun to drive). I was running close to 55mpg highway (sometimes 60 mpg during the summer months), which was the bulk of what I was driving. Sadly, the Beetle suffered an entirely unexpected (and unexplained) catastrophic engine failure with 110K on the clock. I was coming up for my regularly scheduled oil change (I tend to be ridiculously particular about getting my cage and bikes in for service) when the engine seized. No warning lights came on, no unusual behavior, just a sudden seizure. The verdict was two blown rods and a hole in the engine, caused by a distinct lack of oil. It had never had any problems prior to that, save for a minor run-in with a moose.
I am still boggled a year later. Only thing VW could come up with was the possibility of an unknown pinhole crack in the engine after I hit that moose with it early in its life, but even that's not a sure thing - like I said, there was no indication of low oil. Despite the fluke happening, I'd buy another one. We never did the biodiesel conversion, but that's because the price of diesel didn't make it worthwhile at the time.
Good luck with your decision!
Quote from: mattym750 on February 08, 2011, 09:54:10 PM
I looked into TDIs, but the small, gas-engine-derived 1.9 has nothing on the purpose-built, over-engineered MB OM617. I haven't personally seen a TDI with over 200k but I have personally seen several 300Ds with over 300k.
Give me 3 years with my TDI and we'll see if they can do it and if they hold up well. [thumbsup]
There were plenty of old Rabbit diesels that ran very high mileage only to reach the junk heap due to either diesel pump failure, excessive rust or accident. Someone I worked with has a 2 liter Jetta diesel that is running close to 200K miles with only normal replacement of wearing parts and maintenance, overall mileage 42MPG. Oh, the interior still looks good. Many 1.9 diesels had camshaft/lifter problems if under spec engine oil was used, other than that, I don't know of any problems. IMO, VW's biggest problem in the US over recent years have been bad dealers. Oh, we have been happily driving VWs since 95 until last year when we bought an Audi. Yeah, the kid had a problem with his used VW. Maybe ignoring the fact that his check engine light was on for months with the car running like shit had something to do with the clogged cat and other collateral damage [bang]
Quote from: mattym750 on February 08, 2011, 09:54:10 PM
For what it's worth, when I sold my perfect running 82 300D, it had 371000 miles on the original motor and transmission.
I looked into TDIs, but the small, gas-engine-derived 1.9 has nothing on the purpose-built, over-engineered MB OM617. I haven't personally seen a TDI with over 200k but I have personally seen several 300Ds with over 300k.
thank you adding to the weight of what I was saying about the 300D's...but I will have to correct you on seeing 1.9TDi's with high milage...2 employees here have B4 chassis Passat's, 1 with 365K and 1 has 310K and a customer we have has 460K some on his B4 TDi....1 retired employee who doesn't drive as much as he used to has a MK4 Jetta TDi with over 140K on it and I have seen several other TDi cars that are past the 100K range with ease and they usually get traded in for a newer TDi model nowadays instead of driving them into the ground like old tried and true long term diesel owners...because these newer TDi owners aren't diesel converts, they are just wanting more milage for the buck and not wanting a compact hybrid for a premium price and are the "Ooooo-bright shiny" types with ADD wanting the newest and latest and greatest....unfortunately these are the people that in a way Howie is reffering to here...
Quote from: howie on February 09, 2011, 03:33:08 AM
Many 1.9 diesels had camshaft/lifter problems if under spec engine oil was used, ..... IMO, VW's biggest problem in the US over recent years have been bad dealers. ...... Yeah, the kid had a problem with his used VW. Maybe ignoring the fact that his check engine light was on for months with the car running like shit had something to do with the clogged cat and other collateral damage [bang]
these customers who want to save a buck and shortchange themselves in the long term by not maintaining spec grade maintenance on the vehicle get bitten in the end and the dealers look like they are robbing the customers when they tell them it costs umpteen thousands of dollars to fix all that they themselves caused and then those same persons go on the interweb forums and everywhere else and pregnant dog and give the dealer a bad name because they don't want to be responsible for the damage they themselves caused due to being cheap...
Quote from: zooom on February 09, 2011, 05:06:32 AM
these customers who want to save a buck and shortchange themselves in the long term by not maintaining spec grade maintenance on the vehicle get bitten in the end and the dealers look like they are robbing the customers when they tell them it costs umpteen thousands of dollars to fix all that they themselves caused and then those same persons go on the interweb forums and everywhere else and pregnant dog and give the dealer a bad name because they don't want to be responsible for the damage they themselves caused due to being cheap...
bad dealer story: recent recall on PD TDIs for problematic glow plugs. factory ceramic plugs were not heating up correctly. local dealer did service on neighbor's 05 Jetta but broke off the tip of one of the plugs and left it in the engine. Long story short -- they blamed the grenaded engine on customer. Customer towed car to another VW dealer and confirmed smashed pieces of glow plug tip present in bad cylinder. 2nd dealer mech mentions to neighbor "they've done that to 4 cars I have seen so far and have blamed it on customer each time."
I got a notice that the sun roof had a recall for the drains. I took mine in and they tore the ceiling in the car. Service rep claimed it was that when when I brought it in, I told him "well that's funny, the pics I have here on my camera that I took in your parking lot the day I got here show otherwise." he went stonefaced when I asked to speak to the manager. they replaced the ceiling and detailed the car.
That's my one story about bad dealers and TDIs. TDIforum has lots more. Seems the TDI training is lax at VWusa.
I got my belt service done by a shade tree mech who made me work with him and do all the dirty work. I was happy to do it. Replaced everything -- bearings, water pump, alt bearing, etc.. And used the right coolant. Very thorough, triple checked torques. Took him 4 hours and cost me $300 labor and $115 parts. Dealer of course was more expensive ($1600). I doubt I will take my TDI to a VW dealer again.
Quote from: zooom on February 09, 2011, 05:06:32 AM
thank you adding to the weight of what I was saying about the 300D's...but I will have to correct you on seeing 1.9TDi's with high milage...2 employees here have B4 chassis Passat's, 1 with 365K and 1 has 310K and a customer we have has 460K some on his B4 TDi....1 retired employee who doesn't drive as much as he used to has a MK4 Jetta TDi with over 140K on it and I have seen several other TDi cars that are past the 100K range with ease and they usually get traded in for a newer TDi model nowadays instead of driving them into the ground like old tried and true long term diesel owners...because these newer TDi owners aren't diesel converts, they are just wanting more milage for the buck and not wanting a compact hybrid for a premium price and are the "Ooooo-bright shiny" types with ADD wanting the newest and latest and greatest....unfortunately these are the people that in a way Howie is reffering to here...
these customers who want to save a buck and shortchange themselves in the long term by not maintaining spec grade maintenance on the vehicle get bitten in the end and the dealers look like they are robbing the customers when they tell them it costs umpteen thousands of dollars to fix all that they themselves caused and then those same persons go on the interweb forums and everywhere else and pregnant dog and give the dealer a bad name because they don't want to be responsible for the damage they themselves caused due to being cheap...
Yes, there are good dealers. We used to have one. I'm sure the dealer you work for is one. Unfortunately, there are many bad dealers as described by ducatiz. There is also no shortage of internet whiners.
Quote from: sugarcrook on February 08, 2011, 09:25:00 PM
I know this might seem like a crazy idea given this is a motorcycle board, but what about riding your motorcycle? It may not fit your work situation, but I thought I'd toss that up there.
Ideally I would love to get a bike not a Duc to commute to work on. I work at night so There is not traffic and I only have to take one road straight through. Its boring. My problem with riding there is that ( I'm gonna hear it for this) I have a problem with falling asleep while driving. My schedule changed so I go in earlier but now I sometimes fall asleep on the way home. I've gotten pulled over for it once or twice over the years. Anyway If I happen to nod off a bit I would rather do it in a cage then on a bike. And no, the bike won't keep me awake. (Please refrain from telling me the consequences because I know quite well what they are and could be) I've been pretty good lately and I try real hard to get as much rest as I can.
Quote from: mookieo2 on February 09, 2011, 08:41:32 AM
Ideally I would love to get a bike not a Duc to commute to work on. I work at night so There is not traffic and I only have to take one road straight through. Its boring. My problem with riding there is that ( I'm gonna hear it for this) I have a problem with falling asleep while driving. My schedule changed so I go in earlier but now I sometimes fall asleep on the way home. I've gotten pulled over for it once or twice over the years. Anyway If I happen to nod off a bit I would rather do it in a cage then on a bike. And no, the bike won't keep me awake. (Please refrain from telling me the consequences because I know quite well what they are and could be) I've been pretty good lately and I try real hard to get as much rest as I can.
have you tried taking 5 Hour Energy?
Quote from: zooom on February 09, 2011, 09:50:32 AM
have you tried taking 5 Hour Energy?
i did and it made me want to lick dryer lint and caused me urinate multicolored pee. i would not touch it.
Bad dealers do seem to be a big part of VW's problems.
When I moved last time for my job, I found a local dealer (my car was still under warranty at the time). I took my car in for a service and while talking to the shop manager discovered that they used an oil different than what the service manual recommends. They put in plain old 10w-30. The service manual for my car recommends a 5w-40 full synthetic.
I don't know if 5w-40 is absolutely nessesary...could be...might not be
But...anytime I here a manager of a certified VW shop tell me that the service manual is bullshit...I tend to think there might be a problem with the dealer chain [laugh]
I've stuck strickly to the service manual for my car (minus the brake flushing...need to do that) and haven't had a problem. It's not even that much of a big deal to do at home. I just need to learn how to bleed my brakes....and have someone to assist me at the job. My wife doesn't like to get mechanic dirty :P
what's with the brake flushing?
I just had my last free service, the 30k and it listed that they did that.
I thought it was odd at only 30k to do that.
With that being the last free service, I'm debating if they will ever see the car again now.
Not sure if any of the maintenance is going to be enough of a pain in the ass to do to not just do it myself.
Quote from: zooom on February 09, 2011, 05:06:32 AM
the "Ooooo-bright shiny" types with ADD wanting the newest and latest and greatest....
HEY!! I re(semble)sent that com... Oh look, a penny.
Quote from: zooom on February 09, 2011, 05:06:32 AM
these customers who want to save a buck and shortchange themselves in the long term by not maintaining spec grade maintenance on the vehicle get bitten in the end and the dealers look like they are robbing the customers when they tell them it costs umpteen thousands of dollars to fix all that they themselves caused and then those same persons go on the interweb forums and everywhere else and pregnant dog and give the dealer a bad name because they don't want to be responsible for the damage they themselves caused due to being cheap...
I was going to bust your chops for that sentence there, but then realized it was all just a ramble...
;D
Quote from: Le Pirate on February 09, 2011, 01:34:57 PM
~~SNIP~~
My wife doesn't like to get mechanic dirty :P
No need for her to get dirty, she can sit in the driver's seat and push/release the pedal as needed.