Ducati Monster Forum

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703408604576164710522796884.html?mod=rss_opinion_main (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703408604576164710522796884.html?mod=rss_opinion_main)

Not getting into politics at all, just an FYI that it was passed in the House:

 [popcorn]

For the record 'Tizz locked this himself to save me the trouble later on.

so now i unlocked it because nate needs some excitement... maine or vermont or newfoundland or wherever gets so boring i hear...

 [laugh] [laugh] [laugh] [laugh] [laugh] [laugh]

Get it straight counselor...

It's New Hampshire...where lawyers are targets. :-*

And seat belts and car insurance are optional.

 :-*

Live...Freeze...then Die

All work and no play makes dp a dull boy.  All work and no play makes dp a dull boy.  All work and no play makes do a dull boy.  All work and no play makes dp a dull boy.  X1000

you do know that's an ironic thing to say to me, right? 

i am sure there is still a fatwa on me in lebanon......

and consanguinal marriage legal.. :-)

Heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeere's NATE! <sans mustache>

(http://knowyourmeme.com/system/icons/2361/original/jack-ths-shining.jpg?1270349192)

I'm pretty sure any legitimate comments I want to make about this bill will get this thread locked.

I'll settle for "interpretive smileys"

 [clap] [clap] [clap]

<edited to keep this thread from being locked>

quit pissing people off.

yeah, i guess shooting their relatives would qualify...

No general sales tax or income tax on an individual's reported W-2 wages.

Id like to think we can take an informative topic that effects us and use it here without delving into political editorials... Just like being able to discuss motorcycle specific laws (folks here did great work in NYC). 

Let's not show dp he's right again ok?

Oop!  :o

My bad.

I'll cut back on those smileys.

It's a curse I tell ya.

Who needs more Ethanol ? !       

Good news....

Dolph       :)

I frequently think I need more ethanol.

But never in my gasoline.

Good show, robot masters.

you forgot, helmets optional

There's lots of states like that. NH requires it if you're <18 years old, just like:     
   
    * Alaska
    * Arizona
    * Colorado
    * Connecticut
    * Hawaii
    * Idaho
    * Indiana
    * Kansas
    * Maine
    * Minnesota
    * Montana
    * New Mexico
    * No. Dakota
    * Ohio
    * Oklahoma
    * So. Dakota
    * Utah
    * Wisconsin
    * Wyoming

...but that has nothing to do with the ethanol content of our fuel, so [/threadjack].

Does anyone find it peculiar that no one ever defends ethanol as a fuel additive?

anyone who grows corn defends ethanol!

Prices for corn are up due to use for more ethanol, which is good for farmers

But,

There are food shortages that some attribute to the large use of corn for ethanol - as long as there is demand, either for ethanol or for food,
it seems to me that it should still be good for farmers

IMO, ethanol additives are just one of many  non-economically feasible stop-gap measures to cut emissions and lower (artificially) energy costs

guys, if this is staying in GMC, please keep it to bike-related stuff and bike-related issues about ethanol.   There's been lots of good ethanol talk in NMC about the marine industry, lots of good ethanol talk (and some crap) in the tank threads, and before that all of that there was some rotten talk about the laws/rules/regulations in the old politics forum.

we all know the political issues surrounding it and if we don't it's easy to find.  We're not going to get into shit fights here because people can't help but post their opinions about it all.

how it effects our bikes, fine.

what we can do about it both technically with the bikes, and overall in terms of who to write to and what to say (to your representatives), fine.

I sent letters to my congressmen from Iowa.  I am sure they are still supporting E15 since it lines their pockets, but maybe word is getting around.



mitt

Sorry for continuing the NMC, but to try and play devil's advocate, one good thing about ethanol
as a blend, is the distribution infrastructure is in place. I believe there are folks working to enable blending at the refinery level instead of downstream.
I'm confident if ethanol was proven viable we'd be able to get past the negative effects on our motos and weedwhackers.
Our industialized agribusiness is srewed up IMO, extracting ethanol from it doesn't help, IMO.

In Australia, the ethanol blending is so downstream, it's done at the pump.  This allows the end consumer to decide exactly how much of a blend he wants.  IF they want 100% pure gasoline, then no ethanol flows.  Putting it further upstream just makes it more of fiat at the pump and less choice. 

I've said previously that with the proper vehicle engine, ethanol is viable.  Look at Brazil (which uses ethanol from their ubiquitous cane.)   They have made cars for years that run on high concentrations of it.  Gasoline in Brazil is mandated to have 25% ethanol, and many people just opt for a pure ethanol car anyhow -- it runs about $1.50/gallon.  The downside is that with a regular tuned engine, they keep them small -- no bigger than 1.5L engines running around.

My point is that ethanol as an ADDITIVE is a bad idea.  Offer it as a pure fuel and offer cars that run it, but leave my gasoline alone.

There's no reason someone couldnt develop a motorcycle engine that runs off alcohol -- there are plenty of alky carbs available. 

Take the ethanol out of gasoline, put it alongside.  Sell cars that run it.  If they can get it at $1.50/gallon like in Brazil people will buy it, even with the lower fuel economy, they'll buy it.

Back, oh, around 1979 or so when we started with gasohol (E10) the ethanol was blended at the refinery.  Blending is now downstream to prevent phase separation.  Simply put, the later the fuel is blended the less time it has to absorb moisture before it goes in your vehicle. 

So it does not prevent the moisture absorbing so much as it delays it???  What an awesome Fix!!!  I like the Australia answer...mix it at the pump...let me choose whether I want ethanol in my fuel or not...Please do not force me to put it in my tank

it just makes it easier to prevent moisture as the ethanol is kept in a hermetic container.

traditional gasoline storage isn't designed to keep moisture out, mainly to prevent gas vapors from getting out.

with a smaller volume of ethanol needed to mix, it will be easier to store and protect.

Bah! Freedom of choice is un-American!  Get back in line subject!!

That would be an awesome idea, specially for flex fuel cars. The more ethanol % you select to mix, the cheaper it gets. I would definitely put at least 15% if it gets cheaper in my cars. Pure gas would be closer to $4 right now, but I am very willing to pay more for use in my bike.

Correct me if I am wrong, BUT isn't Ethanol mixed fuel only cheaper because of government subsidies?  If someone wants to fell warm and IZ_ about theoretically helping the environment, let them pay the true cost of ethanol.  Those of us that want pure gas (that actually gives you better mpg) should not have to pay more $ for it...

I'm willing to bet that the farmers that make money off of ethanol are not burning ethanol blended fuel in their farm equipment...

We're not going to discuss the political/governmental...

OK?

the real reason for ethanol in gas...

(http://www.uncrate.com/men/images/2011/02/bentley-ice-speed-convertible.jpg)

Bentley Supersports Ice Speed Record Convertible

Fresh off setting a new world ice speed record, Bentley is ready to celebrate with the Bentley Supersports Ice Speed Record Convertible ($TBA). Limited to just 100 cars worldwide, this beastly drop-top features a 6.0 L, twin turbo-charged W12 Flex Fuel engine that runs on either gasoline or E85 bio-ethanol or any combination of the two and is good for 631 hp. Paired with a Quickshift six-speed automatic transmission, the Continental can go from 0-60mph in 3.8 seconds and from 0-100 in just 9.5 seconds; other features include all-wheel drive, a new exhaust system, diamond-quilted Alcantara interior accents, an eight-inch touchscreen infotainment system with a 30GB hard drive, and the ability to keep you warm even though your roof is made of fabric.

sexiest reason for ethanol i can think of... haha

 [thumbsdown]

Check out the specs for a similar engine that runs only gasoline and you see about 10-15% better mpg and HP.

Consumer Reports reamed the FlexFuel cars recently because they consistently get lower mpg than similarly-configured gasoline-only engine vehicles.

I just had a delicious enchilada that my wife made, and I noticed while I was eating it that the corn tortilla had not been made into ethanol. But I did notice that the corn absorbed some savory hot sauce which is mostly made of water. I hope that doesn't ruin my insides.

nope, but you'll expand and the gut has no warranty.   ;)

You're going to start expanding, and soon you'll no longer fit into your frame mounts/pants. I speak from experience here.

That's the best as it produces methane not ethanol.  Save it as power the turbo on your bike.

The hole in his wallet will compensate for the belt line expansion.

Corn Commodity Chart (http://www.tfc-charts.w2d.com/chart/CN/W)

I find that corn tortillas still cost way less than beef. But I hear they may be fattening up the corn tortillas in the near future by sending them to feet lots and feeding them beef. So they may get more expensive.


See cause the cows get trucked to a feed lot..
by trucks that burn ethanol made from corn...
which raises the price of corn..
then the cows eat corn to get fat...
which puts further demand on corn and the price goes higher...
and then the corn is made into tortillas and trucked to a feed lot by trucks that burn ethanol...
which raises the price of corn...
and then they are fed corn fattened beef...
which puts more demand on cows, raising the price on cows....
and finally they are trucked to the store, by trucks that burn ethanol.
which raises the price on corn.



and as I said, all trucks that ship cows and corn products will not use diesel engines but will have to burn gasoline and ethanol because thats the way it's going to be. I have some inside info on this, but I won't name names.

what evil land do you live in where corn is carnivorous? <shudder>

Are you familiar with the island of doctor Moreau?

That's "The Island of Dr. Monsanto." Get it right.

we are not to speak of father