hello,
'02 M750D.
just bought 2 Michelin Pilots 2CT. went to ask at some shops how much is the cost of the installation. from 100-150$. :o
And of course i didn't like their prices... for something i'm sure its not too hard.... ;)
Decided to do it myself... watched some videos on youtube, looks pretty easy. [coffee]
The tools + the balancer is going to cost me around 100$
(never done it b4) Is there anything important i should know before i start? any infos will help ... thanks!
Warm the new tires. Makes it a lot easier.
my Honest no bullshit opinion.
I dont balance my wheels. If you really wanted to save money you could find atleast 5 differnt ways to balance the tire without a balancer.
I made my own breaker, but there are several ways to break the bead, you can find whatever you like.
and i swear to god, buy some TROPICANA Plastic jugs of orange juice and cut them up into slides, they work really well to keep you from maring your own wheel. I've changed about 5 tires with just tire irons
the key is to keep the tire warm, after a ride, or keep them next to the boiler in the basement over night. It makes it 10x easier. I have the Pilot ROAD 2ct. over 12k miles later, ive had to break the bead and take the tire off about 3 times because of nails. :(
Quote from: He Man on March 04, 2011, 04:14:33 PM
my Honest no bullshit opinion.
I dont balance my wheels. If you really wanted to save money you could find atleast 5 differnt ways to balance the tire without a balancer.
I made my own breaker, but there are several ways to break the bead, you can find whatever you like.
and i swear to god, buy some TROPICANA Plastic jugs of orange juice and cut them up into slides, they work really well to keep you from maring your own wheel. I've changed about 5 tires with just tire irons
the key is to keep the tire warm, after a ride, or keep them next to the boiler in the basement over night. It makes it 10x easier. I have the Pilot ROAD 2ct. over 12k miles later, ive had to break the bead and take the tire off about 3 times because of nails. :(
thank you very much for pointing out the breaking the bead... i thought i could do it by hand Cheesy
this is the balancer i want to get : http://www.amazon.com/Motorcycle-Wheel-Balancer/dp/B0040HE8OS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=automotive&qid=1299285183&sr=8-1 (http://www.amazon.com/Motorcycle-Wheel-Balancer/dp/B0040HE8OS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=automotive&qid=1299285183&sr=8-1)
should i go with the ``redneck method`` or can u tell me some different ways to do it?
and yes, you are right.. there are many ways to balance the tire. i wanted something ready bcoz i didnt want to deal with welding bearings ect ect..
this is pretty ready and cool ...
I've used another bike to break the bead using the kickstand, then gone after it with tire irons from there. I had a pregnant dog of a time the first time I changed a tire. I recommend patience and lots of it, but after that. It is as simple as it looks but it can be kinda tricky to work the tire around on and off the wheel.
I have a friend who was killed going over his handlebars at 60MPH trying to save a few bucks by balancing his own wheel. There are certain things that you cannot safely do without the proper tools and experience, and I believe this is one of them. RIP JB.
Quote from: svp88 on March 04, 2011, 04:36:53 PM
thank you very much for pointing out the breaking the bead... i thought i could do it by hand Cheesy
this is the balancer i want to get : http://www.amazon.com/Motorcycle-Wheel-Balancer/dp/B0040HE8OS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=automotive&qid=1299285183&sr=8-1 (http://www.amazon.com/Motorcycle-Wheel-Balancer/dp/B0040HE8OS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=automotive&qid=1299285183&sr=8-1)
should i go with the ``redneck method`` or can u tell me some different ways to do it?
That balancer is well worth getting. Check the balance on the wheels before you mount the new tires, Michelin doesn't mark the light side of the tire but most others do and it will make it much easier if you get the light side of the tire on the heavy side of the wheel. Have some C-clamps handy, they make a great third hand and use plenty of lube on both the tire and rim. The juice bottle plastic is a good idea, I use rim guards.
Quote from: svp88 on March 04, 2011, 03:41:02 PM
just bought 2 Michelin Pilots 2CT. went to ask at some shops how much is the cost of the installation. from 100-150$. :o
And of course i didn't like their prices... for something i'm sure its not too hard.... ;)
the price quoted would likely be ride your bike to them, sit down and drink coffee while they do it all and give your bike back
even then $150 is damn expensive which is what no more than a 30-60 min total job
best ask around what the price would be if you took them just the wheels
but either way changing your own tyres is always good to be able to do , esp if there is a significant saving and can guarentee yourself that you wont damage the wheels if you do it right instead of the workshop monkey
but if its only $10 or $20 for them to change a couple of tyres on loose wheels then its often better to drink the coffee ;)
Quote from: J5 on March 05, 2011, 03:16:35 AM
the price quoted would likely be ride your bike to them, sit down and drink coffee while they do it all and give your bike back
even then $150 is damn expensive which is what no more than a 30-60 min total job
best ask around what the price would be if you took them just the wheels
but either way changing your own tyres is always good to be able to do , esp if there is a significant saving and can guarentee yourself that you wont damage the wheels if you do it right instead of the workshop monkey
but if its only $10 or $20 for them to change a couple of tyres on loose wheels then its often better to drink the coffee ;)
thats a good idea.. will do .. [coffee]
im going to ask them how much is it if i bring only the wheels and tires to them..
for cars i know they charge 10$/each tire. thanks [thumbsup]
Quote from: gregrnel on March 04, 2011, 09:45:51 PM
I have a friend who was killed going over his handlebars at 60MPH trying to save a few bucks by balancing his own wheel. There are certain things that you cannot safely do without the proper tools and experience, and I believe this is one of them. RIP JB.
very sorry to hear that... :(
u might be right.. but not all people have the same brains, or skills.
the reason i want to do this by myself is that I think NO MECHANIC out there is going to do the job with the same patience/care/love i will..... ;)
but thx for pointing it out bro. RIP JB.
Quote from: Dan on March 05, 2011, 02:17:30 AM
That balancer is well worth getting. Check the balance on the wheels before you mount the new tires, Michelin doesn't mark the light side of the tire but most others do and it will make it much easier if you get the light side of the tire on the heavy side of the wheel. Have some C-clamps handy, they make a great third hand and use plenty of lube on both the tire and rim. The juice bottle plastic is a good idea, I use rim guards.
these are the tool i'm planning to use:
http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/1/4/77/28914/ITEM/MotoCentric-10-Spoon-Tire-Iron.aspx?WT.ac=Cart_Item (http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/1/4/77/28914/ITEM/MotoCentric-10-Spoon-Tire-Iron.aspx?WT.ac=Cart_Item)
http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/1/4/77/29625/ITEM/Motion-Pro-Rim-Protectors.aspx?WT.ac=Cart_Item (http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/1/4/77/29625/ITEM/Motion-Pro-Rim-Protectors.aspx?WT.ac=Cart_Item)
http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/1/4/77/4486/ITEM/Motion-Pro-Valve-Core-Remover.aspx?WT.ac=Cart_Item (http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/1/4/77/4486/ITEM/Motion-Pro-Valve-Core-Remover.aspx?WT.ac=Cart_Item)
http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/1/4/77/29602/ITEM/K-L-Quickstick-Wheel-Weights.aspx?WT.ac=Cart_Item (http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/1/4/77/29602/ITEM/K-L-Quickstick-Wheel-Weights.aspx?WT.ac=Cart_Item)
And the balancer + Tire Lube...
im going to go today at the shop and ask them how much it would cost me if i bring them only the wheels and tires..
i literary called all the shops around my area... (11385)
the cheapest i found was 100$ with the wheels on... and 60$ with the wheels off...
reading the reviews, everybody complains about them .. [thumbsdown]
the ducati dealer will charge 120$/hour.. for 1 1/2 hour.. which is insane... [bang]
Quote from: gregrnel on March 04, 2011, 09:45:51 PM
I have a friend who was killed going over his handlebars at 60MPH trying to save a few bucks by balancing his own wheel. There are certain things that you cannot safely do without the proper tools and experience, and I believe this is one of them. RIP JB.
RIP to your friend and im sorry to hear him pass like that, but what did not having his wheels balance have to do with him going over the handle bars? There are plenty of ADV riders who dont balance their wheels. I have 3 track days on unablanced wheels and had the bike topped out then slammed on the brakes as hard as possible after the long straight without issue...
those rim protectors are near useless, they get chewed up pretty quickly. I found a vid on youtube and the guy said tropicana plastic jugs, no lie. they work much better. i have never tried the motion pro bead breaking tool. but hey if it works well let me know, id like to pick one up.
i am due for a tire change soon.
your alternative is to just get something like the no mar, or their clone ( i forgot the brnad its blue), but i dont mind spending extra time with a spoon 2 irons and a few jugs of OJ.
Quote from: He Man on March 05, 2011, 07:35:01 AM
RIP to your friend and im sorry to hear him pass like that, but what did not having his wheels balance have to do with him going over the handle bars? There are plenty of ADV riders who dont balance their wheels. I have 3 track days on unablanced wheels and had the bike topped out then slammed on the brakes as hard as possible after the long straight without issue...
those rim protectors are near useless, they get chewed up pretty quickly. I found a vid on youtube and the guy said tropicana plastic jugs, no lie. they work much better. i have never tried the motion pro bead breaking tool. but hey if it works well let me know, id like to pick one up.
i am due for a tire change soon.
your alternative is to just get something like the no mar, or their clone ( i forgot the brnad its blue), but i dont mind spending extra time with a spoon 2 irons and a few jugs of OJ.
yeah. im going to go for it !
i had never worked on bikes b4.. and changed the head base gasket and was successful from the 1st time for the f*** sake... :D
what am i doing having dubts abt changing/balancing the tires... [thumbsup]
i ll order the tools + balancer today .. and do it next weekend...
Quote from: svp88 on March 04, 2011, 03:41:02 PM
~~SNIP~~
Decided to do it myself... watched some videos on youtube, looks pretty easy. [coffee]
~~SNIP~~
Hey, watching Bubba Stewart do a triple at a SX looks pretty easy too. [laugh]
Seriously, have someone who *knows* how to change a tire by hand show/help you.
And by *knows* I mean someone who's done way more than one or two tires.
It's 90% technique.
Quote from: Speeddog on March 05, 2011, 09:47:19 AM
Hey, watching Bubba Stewart do a triple at a SX looks pretty easy too. [laugh]
Seriously, have someone who *knows* how to change a tire by hand show/help you.
And by *knows* I mean someone who's done way more than one or two tires.
It's 90% technique.
i ll get it done myself. i don't need anybodys techniques... :)
but thx for your advice speeddog, i appreciate it. [thumbsup]
Quote from: svp88 on March 05, 2011, 09:58:23 AM
i ll get it done myself. i don't need anybodys techniques... :)
but thx for your advice speeddog, i appreciate it. [thumbsup]
You're funny. [cheeky]
Have fun.
Quote from: Speeddog on March 05, 2011, 02:25:17 PM
You're funny. [cheeky]
Have fun.
hehe.. i just think the love for your bike, gives you patience and will to do anything... :)
just came back from coffee , was talking to one of my friends abt it .. he told me that the balancing by hand is not going to be accurate bcoz he thinks
the balancing machine they have in the shop spins the wheel faster than hand or smth like that .. is balancing my hand using this : http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/images/B0040HE8OS/ref=dp_image_0?ie=UTF8&n=15684181&s=automotive (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/images/B0040HE8OS/ref=dp_image_0?ie=UTF8&n=15684181&s=automotive) and this technique How to Balance a Motorcycle Wheel (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2AuivYzaBs#normal) is going to be good enough????
and he also said that if you change from 1 brand to another (in this case im going from Dunlops to Michelins) ... the balancing should be done differently..
Quote from: svp88 on March 05, 2011, 04:23:33 PM
hehe.. i just think the love for your bike, gives you patience and will to do anything... :)
just came back from coffee , was talking to one of my friends abt it .. he told me that the balancing by hand is not going to be accurate bcoz he thinks
the balancing machine they have in the shop spins the wheel faster than hand or smth like that .. is balancing my hand using this : http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/images/B0040HE8OS/ref=dp_image_0?ie=UTF8&n=15684181&s=automotive (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/images/B0040HE8OS/ref=dp_image_0?ie=UTF8&n=15684181&s=automotive) and this technique How to Balance a Motorcycle Wheel (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2AuivYzaBs#normal) is going to be good enough????
and he also said that if you change from 1 brand to another (in this case im going from Dunlops to Michelins) ... the balancing should be done differently..
The balencer in the video is a static wheel balancer. Wheel speed itself has little to do with how to balance a wheel. There are two wheel balance issues. One is static imbalance, which is imbalance in the axial plane (heavy on the top or bottom) and causes the wheel to bounce up and down. The other is dynamic imbalance, which is imbalance in the radial plane and causes the wheel to move from side to side. In your car static imbalace is usually felt as a rapid up and down movement at the steering wheel, usually at about 55MPH. Dynamic imbalance is usually felt as a side to side movement at the steering wheel at a somewhat slower speed.
Modern "spin balancers" calculate both static and dynamic imbalance and tell you where to put the weights to compensate for both. The balancer you are looking at is a static balancer, definitely good enough for the narrow front wheel. Since race teams use static balancers, I think it is safe enough to assume it is good enough for the rear wheel too. One trick is to split the weight between both sides of the wheel.
For balancing I'm trying the Dyna bead coolaid, installed in my Pilot Powers 2CT's last weekend.
I'll post my impressions but I won't be riding for another month possibly.
I sprung for a Cycle Hill changer with a No-Mar bar, pretty pleased with it. I figure on 3, maybe 4
tires changed per year. Plus a few buddies tires will mean free beer.
Hey good luck if you invent a new technique! Let us know how it works out!
Quote from: seevtsaab on March 06, 2011, 03:57:16 AM
For balancing I'm trying the Dyna bead coolaid, installed in my Pilot Powers 2CT's last weekend.
I'll post my impressions but I won't be riding for another month possibly.
I sprung for a Cycle Hill changer with a No-Mar bar, pretty pleased with it. I figure on 3, maybe 4
tires changed per year. Plus a few buddies tires will mean free beer.
Hey good luck if you invent a new technique! Let us know how it works out!
After reading this post and thinking back on my tire changes. I think I'm gonna spend the money on the Cycle hill changer as well. It'd be nice to not wrestle with a tire on the ground and to never contribute to my local tire shop's weed habit again. Takes em 6 hours to change a tire, and they say "dude" a lot, so I'm just filling in the blanks. [cheeky]
I agree with He Man. While I may pick up a balancer eventually ($50 is nothing by comparison to the rest of the bullshit I spend money on :)) I threw a tire on, torqued the wheel and put 600 high speed miles on it before I picked up a nail. Took it to my shop to have patched from the inside and when I got it back, my tech said that he went ahead and balanced it again because it was sooooo far out of whack. I never even noticed. The bike ran better than before actually (Diablo to Pilot Power 2CT).
Modern wheel/tire technology is worlds better than it was even ten years ago. I'm not saying I'm going to install a tire and instantly hit the slab and punch it to find out if it's balanced, but give it a time or two and you'll have the change down to an hour or two max, with or without balancing.
That being said, breaking the bead and removing the tire is nothing. That's the easy part, but the one piece of advice I'll give in regards to chucking that thing back on is that whenever you've got the one side of the tire on and are working on getting that last little bit of bead around the rim, push the opposing side of the bead (the part of the tire that already has both sides of the bead within the rim) as faaaaar towards the center of the rim as you can to give the rest of the bead that little extra slack.
I'd also give yourself at least 3 hours to do the change, which includes spare time for cursing, rubbing bruised knuckles, and grumbling under your breath while staring at your tire changer and drinking beer. You'll need it.
If you live near a Cycle Gear and can mount your own tires, they will balance them for free. It's company policy.
It's not too hard. Lots of lube, good tools. As mentioned, the warmer the tires, the better.
JM
Quote from: Jarvicious on March 07, 2011, 08:11:33 AM
... push the opposing side of the bead (the part of the tire that already has both sides of the bead within the rim) as faaaaar towards the center of the rim as you can....
What Jarivcious said, good advise there.
Quote from: seevtsaab on March 07, 2011, 03:13:42 PM
What Jarivcious said, good advise there.
Yup, keep the opposite side in the deepest part of the rim and it will be much easier. I've made a few changes using only tire irons, a Wonderbar, and a couple rim savers. The rim savers are very useful. I've got black Monster Dark rims, and I really value keeping the paint on them and the rim savers help a lot.
I should be posting some images & commentary from my latest tire change within a few days.
JM
Quote from: Jarvicious on March 07, 2011, 08:11:33 AM
I agree with He Man. While I may pick up a balancer eventually ($50 is nothing by comparison to the rest of the bullshit I spend money on :)) I threw a tire on, torqued the wheel and put 600 high speed miles on it before I picked up a nail. Took it to my shop to have patched from the inside and when I got it back, my tech said that he went ahead and balanced it again because it was sooooo far out of whack. I never even noticed. The bike ran better than before actually (Diablo to Pilot Power 2CT).
Modern wheel/tire technology is worlds better than it was even ten years ago. I'm not saying I'm going to install a tire and instantly hit the slab and punch it to find out if it's balanced, but give it a time or two and you'll have the change down to an hour or two max, with or without balancing.
That being said, breaking the bead and removing the tire is nothing. That's the easy part, but the one piece of advice I'll give in regards to chucking that thing back on is that whenever you've got the one side of the tire on and are working on getting that last little bit of bead around the rim, push the opposing side of the bead (the part of the tire that already has both sides of the bead within the rim) as faaaaar towards the center of the rim as you can to give the rest of the bead that little extra slack.
I'd also give yourself at least 3 hours to do the change, which includes spare time for cursing, rubbing bruised knuckles, and grumbling under your breath while staring at your tire changer and drinking beer. You'll need it.
1st of all thank you for your advice.
as i said before i have all the time in the world when it comes to my bike [moto]
and lots of patience!! All the tools and balancer shipped today . i ll get them next monday :(( that means March 19-20 is the day !! haha [beer]
^^ jarvicious mentioned something that people just dont do even though its common sense.
once u break the bead, when you push and deform the tire on one side, it gives you more room to work with on the other, I always do 2 man tire changes. Just makes life easier. Once you get one edge off that stays off, just pull on it with your hand and it will come loose.
I know this may sound stupid obvious, but you might not think of it, but the WHEEL IS SMALLER THAN THE RIM!!!! Just remember that!
Quote from: He Man on March 07, 2011, 09:30:38 PM
~~SNIP~~
I know this may sound stupid obvious, but you might not think of it, but the WHEEL IS SMALLER THAN THE RIM!!!! Just remember that!
Say what?
Oops i mean the TIRE Is smaller than the wheel. :P
Quote from: He Man on March 07, 2011, 09:30:38 PM
I know this may sound stupid obvious, but you might not think of it, but the WHEEL IS SMALLER THAN THE RIM!!!! Just remember that!
I'm pretty sure Confucius just shat a brick in approval.
Just remember, there is no spoon :)
So here is the deal... i got the job done myself... (again) and it was successful .. (again) lol
Day 1 .. me , my friend and my father.. trying to break the bead on the front tire... there trying like idiots for 2 hours straight at 35F temp in the garage.. the results : bruises on knees , palms.. ;D then for some reason i started remembering what you guys told me here.. that i need lube and warm up the tires... [bang]
so i took the electric heater and started heating up the tires... used dish soap mixed with water for lubrication ..
This IS A ONE MANS JOB.. the more ppl you have there helping you the worst it will be.. ;D
after the tire warmed up i used a compression tool ( C-shaped with threaded axle ) ppl use it when they glue for example , a table and they want to keep the 2 wooden pieces together till the glue dries.. idk how its called... bought it from home depot for 10$... then after the bead broke started using the
http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/2/9/205/4456/ITEM/Motion-Pro-Assorted-Tire-Iron-Set.aspx?WT.ac=SLIsearch (http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/2/9/205/4456/ITEM/Motion-Pro-Assorted-Tire-Iron-Set.aspx?WT.ac=SLIsearch) and http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/4/22/276/29625/ITEM/Motion-Pro-Rim-Protectors.aspx?WT.ac=RichAutoComplete (http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/4/22/276/29625/ITEM/Motion-Pro-Rim-Protectors.aspx?WT.ac=RichAutoComplete) ...
Then for the rear tire... believe it or not.. it took me 30min to remove the wheel from the bike.. break the bead , removed the tire from the rim, put the new one on and put air on it ... [thumbsup] ..
as for balancing... hmmm .. as you all know i bought this : http://www.amazon.com/Motorcycle-Wheel-Balancer/dp/B0040HE8OS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=automotive&qid=1301962331&sr=8-1 (http://www.amazon.com/Motorcycle-Wheel-Balancer/dp/B0040HE8OS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=automotive&qid=1301962331&sr=8-1)
and id say that is one of the best tools i own.. anyways .. balanced the wheels .. adjusted the air pressure to 34psi/F & 36psi/R and went for a ride...
made 20miles in the city doing 1-50mph... then went on the highway for another 60miles doing 50-60mphs... after that there is a straight 3miles smooth asphalt .. and luckily there were to cars or cops .. (i guess) so i gunned it to 120-140mph ... the results.. 0 vibration .. the bike was solid on the ground...
i guess the balancing was good...
so everything i spent for tools + balancer + my time cost me approximately the same as i would had paid some ``mechanic`` at the local shop.... [moto]
Good deal, nice to hear a success story. So at the low temps. You mentioned, did You put in Winter air or Summer air ?
Quote from: KRJ on April 05, 2011, 08:06:40 PM
You mentioned, did You put in Winter air or Summer air ?
blinker fluid?
^ Spring air is much nicer but I always get into trouble in the spring, I'm trying to sit this one out, it's not working out to good. Congrats for the tire change, I am glad it went well next time it will be cheaper. I remember my first belt and valve job at Ducshop cost me a nice $900.00. The next time I spent half that on tools, shim kit and a book, the most recent valve job it cost me around $25 plus the cost of oil. I have to say it felt damn good. I even sent this picture to my phone just to confirm how good it felt. [laugh]
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v30/Batman50/99469527.jpg)
Quote from: Novelo on April 06, 2011, 04:44:27 PM
^ Spring air is much nicer but I always get into trouble in the spring, I'm trying to sit this one out, it's not working out to good. Congrats for the tire change, I am glad it went well next time it will be cheaper. I remember my first belt and valve job at Ducshop cost me a nice $900.00. The next time I spent half that on tools, shim kit and a book, the most recent valve job it cost me around $25 plus the cost of oil. I have to say it felt damn good. I even sent this picture to my phone just to confirm how good it felt. [laugh]
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v30/Batman50/99469527.jpg)
hell yea!! thats what im talking abt!! good job bro! [thumbsup]
[laugh]