Been riding Ducatis since mid-90's. Have 5 road worthy Ducatis but just a couple of weeks ago bought a little Guzzi (08 Nevada) 750 cruiser, zero miles leftover for under $6K (with full 2 year unlimited mileage warranty) from European Motorsports Inc. in Dahlonega, GA.
They buy leftover Guzzi, Aprilia and Enfields from other dealers and sell them for lowball prices.
Anyway, the last service (18K service) on my '06' S2R 1000 Monster cost me almost 1 grand at our local dealer. Don't get me wrong...the work was done well and the bike runs great but...
1K is a chunk of change IMO and, well...rubber Ducks are just getting too expensive to maintain (once again IMO). So...If I like this little Guzzi, I just might be a convert and leave the Ducatis in the past. Don't get me wrong (and try to steal my Ducks from me) I won't get rid of the Ducatis I will at least will hold on to the old ones...maybe sell off the newer ones and perhaps replace them with brands that are easier to work on for the average shade tree mechanic.
I love the unusual (wouldn't want a Japanese bike) but Guzzi, Aprilia, ...perhaps (perish the thought) even a Harley might be in my future.
Ducati has just priced themselves out of my market. What with the O2 sensor crap and the plastic tank stuff (both problems I had w/the Monster...Well I think I'm done...I think I have purchased my last Ducati for this life time)
So, what your telling us, is you bought another bike. :D
Quote from: kopfjäger on March 04, 2011, 08:20:50 PM
So, what your telling us, is you bought another bike. :D
That's what I got from it! [laugh]
That was easy... ;D
There comes a time in a Man's life when things change and not for the best , it's called getting old.
I should know.
I'm lookin' down the barrel at 62 .
I didn't like spending $1700 dollars in the Service Dept. back in November, but at least for now I can afford it, I had a lot of preventive maintenance done so I should be golden for the next couple of years.
Hopefully I won't be spending much in the Service Dept. for sometime to come.
You want nice things...they have a price and if that price is too much for your wallet than it's understandable that one has to look at other alternatives.
I once had a car , a BMW Z-8 back in 2004 that cost $172 for an oil change.
I thought that was outrageous...the car cost $135,000....so what could I expect !
Just the other week I got an email from one of the SO CAL Ducati Dealers that I'm on their list, they were advertising a special.......Oil Changes for $99.00.
That's just nuts.
For a bike that might cost less than $10,000 .
Why should it cost that much to change the Oil on a non faired Monster.
I understand your feelings toward the cost of Service these days.
Like I've seen it said " Ducati..making mechanics out of owners " or something like that.
Sorry things had to happen the way they are but a " Man's got to do what a Man's got to do. "
Dolph
most of the high cost for oil changes for Ducs is the oil itself, full synth motorcycle oil isn't cheap.
even do it yourself changes are more expensive than a normal car
but the new BMW I have is the same full synth.
I say we get the pitchforks and torches and run him out of town though...
but seriously, cost of ownership is rarely accounted for when buying vehicles, especially motorcycles.
I more and more find solace in doing my own maintenance not only to avoid the costs, but to enjoy the bike more, to be more in tune with it.
It's great that so many of the members on this forum can do their own maintenance Jerry, but a lot of us either don't have the tools, the knack, the time, or really want to do it.
For me , I seem to always have bikes under warranty and want the Dealer doing the Service work in case something would go wrong , then there's no question since they have been doing the service if there's a warranty claim.
On older bikes it makes a lot more sense for a rider to want to do Service things themselves since there's no warranty involved.
I bought a 3 year extended warranty on my " R " and never track it so I'm hoping w, a solid service history at the selling Dealer I should be covered for what the warranty covers if need be.
Ah well an air cooled italian twin anyway, not in the classic style we're used to but.
Hell if someone rode a Norge up my driveway I'd write em a check so fast it'd make my divorce lawyers
head spin.
Non DIY Ducati (and many Moto brands) service is not for the faint of wallet.
If you find a bike you like to ride, that's affordable to maintain, well, good on ya.
Do us a favor and post your impressions of the new ride, eh?
Do you have your red suspenders yet? They are part of the suggested riding gear for Guzzi owners.
I have Ducatis but I love Guzzis too.
Just because you love your wife doesn't mean you wouldn't screw her best friend too.
Quote from: ducatiz on March 05, 2011, 06:24:44 AM
Just because you love your wife doesn't mean you wouldn't screw her best friend too.
talk about expensive service. ;D
I completely understand the sentiment though. I just had my 12k service on my S4R and it was pricey but I also had some other things done. The way I see it, it's a hobby and an expensive one at that but I've owned many other brands over the years and when you add it up there's but a slight difference if you maintain your bike. Oh and no flaking rockers [thumbsup]
I was basicaly given my bike, If i had bought it from a dealer I probably would have know how much maitnance is involved. I didnt know about belts and valves or anything else for that matter. I did a lot of research and realized i just couldnt aford to have someone else do these things for me. So after much more research i dove in and became a self labeled ducati service tech.
i think i have gained a greater appretiation for my ride and a good feeling that i know what is going on with my bike. I am glad i didnt shell out thousands for someone else to do something a bit of reading a asking could do.
yes the problem is that the raw materials and parts are what is expensive.
the ducati bikes the filters and just 3.4 quarts is going to cost you around 34-40 for just some full synthetic motorcycle motor oil, if you want to go cheaper you can but most people here won't so fihure around 38 and we are not talking tax or shipping yet. then you goto a dealer to get a filter the filter will cost you another sa 10-15 depending on brand.
you are already at arond 45-50 and you haven't paid tax yet or labor, if you do it yourself its dont but if you don't even a noral shop is goingt o charge around 1/2 labor or so , so firgure 45 more so that is your 90$ dolph and that is the cheaper side no tax.
your bmw was worse bc it took more oil and you probably had to use "bmw syntheitc" oil that cost around another 15-20 a quart not the cheap stuff, a dealer wouldn't use that, an dthe filter and you get the gist, so 172 is what it will cost, the days of a 25$ oil change are over, unless you want to bring your 140k car to jiffy lube and have them do it, and most people won't .
the ducati is the same thing, we all know the 7500 service is there, its not like it will magically get cheaper or go away, the only thing that can happen is you can stretch them out the moere you have the bike, but they aren't going to just go away or the dealer will give it to you half price one time.
this is where the maint of ducati is more than a honda that has them at 15k miles it matter especially if you ride enough.
I can also relate to the OP. I need to take my Monster in because it won't start and I'll probably have the belts changed just due to their age, not the miles. The same is true for my 999 but at least it starts. Sure one's air cooled and the other a water pumper so one's "cheaper" than the other but you add up both of those services (and the cost to fix the S2R1000 no start) and that's a chunk of change. Especially for a guy looking for a job. [bang] I have a handful of Jap sbks and those are getting all the miles right now. They need nothing other than gas, insurance, tires and oil change if needed. That's it. Oh, and they need to be ridden. [thumbsup] [moto] Until I can afford the needed service work the Ducs will be lounging in the garage while I tear ass around on the Gixxers, Busa, RC51 and ZRX1200!! I love my Ducs and will only sell them out of financial desperation. But it was no secret that they would be expensive to own. Still much cheaper than a mistress and the wife doesn't care if I'm out fondling them in the garage!! [laugh] :o
Quote from: ducatiz on March 05, 2011, 06:24:44 AM
Just because you love your wife doesn't mean you wouldn't screw her best friend too.
Yes it does.
I would cheat on my bike tho ;)
Biggest reason for OP not to get rid of the Duck...
Then he would be just Old-Man.
thats not cool
Oldfastwin........back in black for me to ride and I'll do all the maintenance.
That's a scary thought! [laugh] [laugh]
Quote from: sbrguy on March 05, 2011, 09:08:21 AM
yes the problem is that the raw materials and parts are what is expensive.
the ducati bikes the filters and just 3.4 quarts is going to cost you around 34-40 for just some full synthetic motorcycle motor oil, if you want to go cheaper you can but most people here won't so fihure around 38 and we are not talking tax or shipping yet. then you goto a dealer to get a filter the filter will cost you another sa 10-15 depending on brand.
you are already at arond 45-50 and you haven't paid tax yet or labor, if you do it yourself its dont but if you don't even a noral shop is goingt o charge around 1/2 labor or so , so firgure 45 more so that is your 90$ dolph and that is the cheaper side no tax.
your bmw was worse bc it took more oil and you probably had to use "bmw syntheitc" oil that cost around another 15-20 a quart not the cheap stuff, a dealer wouldn't use that, an dthe filter and you get the gist, so 172 is what it will cost, the days of a 25$ oil change are over, unless you want to bring your 140k car to jiffy lube and have them do it, and most people won't .
the ducati is the same thing, we all know the 7500 service is there, its not like it will magically get cheaper or go away, the only thing that can happen is you can stretch them out the moere you have the bike, but they aren't going to just go away or the dealer will give it to you half price one time.
this is where the maint of ducati is more than a honda that has them at 15k miles it matter especially if you ride enough.
Valve adjustment on the new Diavel is only every 24,000 kilometers / or 15,000 miles.
So Ducati is moving in a more rider friendly service way.
Dolph [moto]
Sooo.... how do I update stuff on my bike to get these valve intervals? Valves? Retainers? Shims? That would be a kit worth pulling the heads for.
Quote from: Punx Clever on March 05, 2011, 08:53:34 PM
Sooo.... how do I update stuff on my bike to get these valve intervals? Valves? Retainers? Shims? That would be a kit worth pulling the heads for.
I guess you'll have to ask a Duc Mechanic.
That I'm not.
Dolph :)
i agree the multi and the new diavel with the 15k intervals is finaly putting the ducati at the same level as a japanese brands.
and that above all is the best thing that ducati is finally doing so they are definitely moving in the right direction. and then the arguement that the ducati is more espensive to maintain is no longer the case.
and depending on who you talk to a lot of people are stretching the normal 7500 mile intervals out to 8-10k after the 1 or 2nd interval so i think that ducati by putting the 7500 mile interval is at the very least being conservative so that the one off where you absolutely need to do the adjustment at 7500 miles is caught before it becomes major.
Quote from: DoubleEagle on March 05, 2011, 07:54:21 PM
Valve adjustment on the new Diavel is only every 24,000 kilometers / or 15,000 miles.
So Ducati is moving in a more rider friendly service way.
Dolph [moto]
thats because they are thinking that they are like harley owners and wont egt to 24K miles in the next 10 years let alone 48K ;) [clap] [cheeky] [laugh]
Quote from: J5 on March 06, 2011, 01:34:58 AM
thats because they are thinking that they are like harley owners and wont egt to 24K miles in the next 10 years let alone 48K ;) [clap] [cheeky] [laugh]
not on my hardley >:( My last cruiser had 78k on the clock.
Quote from: muskrat on March 06, 2011, 07:52:35 AM
not on my hardley >:( My last cruiser had 78k on the clock.
the starbucks/bars must be really spread out where you live. :P
Nah, 'skrat's a rider. He's one of the few that actually wears them out. [thumbsup] [moto] And yes, his Starbucks commute is brutal. [laugh]
[bang] [bang] [bang] [bang]
I'm not allowed at Starbucks unless I'm wearing Italian gear. (http://images.zaazu.com/img/Pants-Down-pants-butt-joke-smiley-emoticon-000585-large.gif)
Quote from: muskrat on March 06, 2011, 03:01:17 PM
[bang] [bang] [bang] [bang]
I'm not allowed at Starbucks unless I'm wearing Italian gear. (http://images.zaazu.com/img/Pants-Down-pants-butt-joke-smiley-emoticon-000585-large.gif)
:-*
Quote from: fastwin on March 05, 2011, 02:02:52 PM
Until I can afford the needed service work the Ducs will be lounging in the garage while I tear ass around on the Gixxers, Busa, RC51 and ZRX1200!!
That's rough for you ;)
Quote from: muskrat on March 06, 2011, 03:01:17 PM
[bang] [bang] [bang] [bang]
I'm not allowed at Starbucks unless I'm wearing Italian gear. (http://images.zaazu.com/img/Pants-Down-pants-butt-joke-smiley-emoticon-000585-large.gif)
[laugh] [laugh] [laugh] [drink]
Quote from: swampduc on March 06, 2011, 05:11:40 PM
That's rough for you ;)
Yeah it sucks but I buck it up and deal with it. [laugh] [moto]
Quote from: muskrat on March 06, 2011, 07:52:35 AM
not on my hardley >:( My last cruiser had 78k on the clock.
good to hear
i wonder about ducati making longer intervals for valve service as a ,marketing point , its well known that the motors dont perform well at the wide end of clearance tolerance
Will there be issues with rocker chrome but will generally be out of warranty so they dont care about that ??
Quote from: J5 on March 06, 2011, 08:54:06 PM
good to hear
i wonder about ducati making longer intervals for valve service as a ,marketing point , its well known that the motors dont perform well at the wide end of clearance tolerance
Will there be issues with rocker chrome but will generally be out of warranty so they dont care about that ??
J5,
You make a good point . ???
Dolph
I'm still wrapped up around the axle about the 2 year life span of the belts. >:( Hell, I have a Sears riding mower at my farm that I bought in April 1995 that still has the original drive belt for the two mower blades!! It has seen rough use for almost 16 years!! :o Every time I fire it up and push the level to engage the blades I expect it to break... but it doesn't. Maybe we should get that company to make Ducati's cam drive belts. >:( Does Goodyear make Harley's drive belts? I'm thinking I heard that somewhere. Some person/company would be doing Ducati owners everywhere a HUGE favor if they made some belts with some longevity built into them. [thumbsup] Anybody listening? Hello... ;D
Quote from: fastwin on March 07, 2011, 06:53:40 AM
I'm still wrapped up around the axle about the 2 year life span of the belts. >:( Hell, I have a Sears riding mower at my farm that I bought in April 1995 that still has the original drive belt for the two mower blades!! It has seen rough use for almost 16 years!! :o Every time I fire it up and push the level to engage the blades I expect it to break... but it doesn't. Maybe we should get that company to make Ducati's cam drive belts. >:( Does Goodyear make Harley's drive belts? I'm thinking I heard that somewhere. Some person/company would be doing Ducati owners everywhere a HUGE favor if they made some belts with some longevity built into them. [thumbsup] Anybody listening? Hello... ;D
I think the 2 year recommendation is more a pound of caution rather than reality. I have an alazzurra with belts that are at least 10 years old -- look fine. I have a set to replace them when I get a chance, but I doubt they are going anywhere soon.
Quote from: fastwin on March 07, 2011, 06:53:40 AM
I'm still wrapped up around the axle about the 2 year life span of the belts. >:( Hell, I have a Sears riding mower at my farm that I bought in April 1995 that still has the original drive belt for the two mower blades!! It has seen rough use for almost 16 years!! :o Every time I fire it up and push the level to engage the blades I expect it to break... but it doesn't. Maybe we should get that company to make Ducati's cam drive belts. >:( Does Goodyear make Harley's drive belts? I'm thinking I heard that somewhere. Some person/company would be doing Ducati owners everywhere a HUGE favor if they made some belts with some longevity built into them. [thumbsup] Anybody listening? Hello... ;D
Not exactly a fair comparison.
That said I run my belts longer than recommended...usually until they resemble plastic more than rubber.
you guys are funny...if you made a bike that never required maintenance...then the dealer would be out of business because of the way you generally try and haggle them down on a purchase price, so they would never make any money...and lets face it...we here in this discussion are in the minority as far as being aware of things maintenance wise.....most people ride em till they go "BANG" and then wonder WTF happened and why and sign over an absurd amount of money to fix it...
Quote from: zooom on March 07, 2011, 07:20:18 AM
you guys are funny...if you made a bike that never required maintenance...then the dealer would be out of business because of the way you generally try and haggle them down on a purchase price, so they would never make any money...and lets face it...we here in this discussion are in the minority as far as being aware of things maintenance wise.....most people ride em till they go "BANG" and then wonder WTF happened and why and sign over an absurd amount of money to fix it...
If someone could make a no-maintenance bike, then they could sell it direct over the internet. Minor stuff like oil could be done by anyone. Major stuff would mean the bike gets picked up and shipped to a repair depot and then returned to your home.
It sounds like a great model. Have a traveling truck go around the country with demo bikes.
Of course, it all depends on the right maintenance-free capability and the right price point.
Quote from: zooom on March 07, 2011, 07:20:18 AM
you guys are funny...if you made a bike that never required maintenance...then the dealer would be out of business because of the way you generally try and haggle them down on a purchase price, so they would never make any money...and lets face it...we here in this discussion are in the minority as far as being aware of things maintenance wise.....most people ride em till they go "BANG" and then wonder WTF happened and why and sign over an absurd amount of money to fix it...
I'm not so much grumbling about maintenance in general. Repairs, preventative maintenance, etc. are a given. It's the 2 year deal on belts that pins me. And I, like ducatiz, have gone over. My 2005 999 still has the originals. It's not the miles it's the age. But the thought of bouncing the valves off the pistons is naturally worrisome. My wife would have a cow right now if I took both the 999 and Monster in for work that they need... finance wise. I guess my real issue is I'm not riding them because of all that right now and I want to. >:( [moto] It's just a personal problem. I miss riding them.
Quote from: fastwin on March 07, 2011, 07:51:30 AM
I'm not so much grumbling about maintenance in general. Repairs, preventative maintenance, etc. are a given. It's the 2 year deal on belts that pins me. And I, like ducatiz, have gone over. My 2005 999 still has the originals. It's not the miles it's the age. But the thought of bouncing the valves off the pistons is naturally worrisome. My wife would have a cow right now if I took both the 999 and Monster in for work that they need... finance wise. I guess my real issue is I'm not riding them because of all that right now and I want to. >:( [moto] It's just a personal problem. I miss riding them.
Change the belts yourself. It's pretty easy. Chris has videos on youtube on how to do it.
That thought has crossed my mind. I'd probably screw it up and end up with valve-piston interface! [laugh]
Guzzi's are cool bikes IMO. Not the lightest or fastest...but super cool and very fun to ride. [thumbsup] They sound amazing as well. ;D
I had a Griso 1100 that I sold to get my 990 SMT (wanted more of an all-arounder). I missed the Guzzi though, so I just picked up a used 2008 1200 Sport (technically, it's my wife's ;)). $5.5K OTD with 6 months still remaing on the warranty. Can't beat that. It's a fun, and good looking bike.
The Guzzi ownership experience depends on the quality of your dealer (as with most bikes). Luckily we have a very good one in Seattle. [thumbsup] Maintenance is definitely cheaper, and easier to do yourself (at least some of it).
Quote from: fastwin on March 07, 2011, 07:51:30 AM
I'm not so much grumbling about maintenance in general. Repairs, preventative maintenance, etc. are a given. It's the 2 year deal on belts that pins me. And I, like ducatiz, have gone over. My 2005 999 still has the originals. It's not the miles it's the age. But the thought of bouncing the valves off the pistons is naturally worrisome. My wife would have a cow right now if I took both the 999 and Monster in for work that they need... finance wise. I guess my real issue is I'm not riding them because of all that right now and I want to. >:( [moto] It's just a personal problem. I miss riding them.
+1
Even though I do my own maintenance, the seemingly constant fiddling (and attendant cost of the parts) is the primary reason I no longer have a Duc. That and the fact that I really want a 4V.....
If they can really get the service intervals to 15K across the board I find them more appealing again.....
I have one for you guys [evil]
My good'ole Roadstar had 78k on the drive belt and one of my friends with the same bike with over 150K which needed replacing at that time. Now that's what I call longevity and peace of mind. Just saying.....
Quote from: ducatiz on March 07, 2011, 07:39:32 AM
If someone could make a no-maintenance bike, then they could sell it direct over the internet. Minor stuff like oil could be done by anyone. Major stuff would mean the bike gets picked up and shipped to a repair depot and then returned to your home.
It sounds like a great model. Have a traveling truck go around the country with demo bikes.
Of course, it all depends on the right maintenance-free capability and the right price point.
i thought they made the cucciolo ;) buy it at the shop fit it yourself and away you go ;)
they still make royal enfields that anyone can fix with a shifter and a screwdriver
Quote from: muskrat on March 07, 2011, 03:06:10 PM
I have one for you guys [evil]
My good'ole Roadstar had 78k on the drive belt and one of my friends with the same bike with over 150K which needed replacing at that time. Now that's what I call longevity and peace of mind. Just saying.....
That's what the make the beast with two backs I'm talking about!! Come on Ducati. Surely you can find a belt manufacturer that can do better than a two year lifespan!! Again, I refer to my Sears riding mower at the farm! Going on 16 years on the same mower deck drive belt???!!! They can do better on the service intervals and the damn belts. They just don't want to. >:(
I understand the belts... I mean, if the cam belt fails, you are looking at rebuilding the entire top end at least. If a drive belt on a harley fails... well, the bike just stops.
But I still want a damn 15k mile valve kit! Or at least screw adjusters on the openers... I'd settle for that.
Quote from: fastwin on March 07, 2011, 06:43:18 PM
That's what the make the beast with two backs I'm talking about!! Come on Ducati. Surely you can find a belt manufacturer that can do better than a two year lifespan!! Again, I refer to my Sears riding mower at the farm! Going on 16 years on the same mower deck drive belt???!!! They can do better on the service intervals and the damn belts. They just don't want to. >:(
No...
the friggen drive belt on your mower has nothing in common with a cam belt on a Duc.
If you want to compare...do it with a similar application with similar radii pulleys.
[bang] [bang] [bang] [bang] [bang] [bang]
Yeah, I know it's not an apples to apples comparison. But damn. Still belt technology in this day and age has to be better than a two year window! It's not rocket science. How many miles between drive belts on your car/truck motor? Every two years? No way. Just saying THAT part of Duc ownership could be a lot better. It's like Ducati saying you can only use XYZ tires on your Duc and they are good for only two years (regardless of miles) then you need new ones that only we can provide. It could be better in that regard. Just saying... not that it would change anything. [bang] I'll stop now. ;D
all I want is a belt to last a lifetime. :o
Another thought to consider is that the belts i use to hold up my pants only usually last 2 years...
it seems as though people may complain bout the 2 year period of the belts but at the same time there have been stories of poeple using the same belts way past that 2 year period and they have held up.
i have a feeling that the belts will probably hold up over 2 years but that ducati is being very conservative with the estimates so that they are replaced way before any problems may arrive.
hey if you want chance it and go 3 years as long as you keep up on checking the belts for wear and cracks you could probably get away with going longer intervals. but hey that is something you have to find out if it works.
My Brother has many cars.
Right now he is in FLA. driving a '99 Cadillac that has the original belts and hoses .
It was my Dad's car bought new and Dad died in 2001 and my Brother got the car.
He drove down from Ohio and he'll drive back.
May be he'll make it ...may be not.
He drove down and back last year w, a nail in a tire and he knew about it before he went. ???
He and I don't think the same about much of anything.
Dolph