Ducati Monster Forum

hey folks,

i have an S4 Foggy.
i was low on oil after my trackday on monday. so on wednesday i put more oil in before i rdoe her. today i checked the level and it looked like it was a bit high, just about over the high line. rode it for 50mi and stopped for gas and as i was about to take oof i noticed oil on the ground. when i inspected the bike there was a little pool of oil on the top of the crankcase.

i checked for other leaks and didn't see anything anywhere else.
-could it be, that much oil that it can seep out of the top of the crankcase?
-or it's some bad gaskets?
-or the bolts aren't torqued down enough?
-is this normal when you put too much oil in?

(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm6/analogypsy/misc/IMGP0255.jpg)

(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm6/analogypsy/misc/IMGP0256.jpg)

I would really like to hear an answer to this because i am very slowly get that leak too. I am known to put a tad too much oil in, but like you said just a hair over the high line; which shouldnt hurt anything. From what I remember this is related to the rear cylinder base gasket  ??? . Can anyone confirm this. Mine has been barley leaking for about 5000 km now (like a few drops every thousand km, I am just keeping an eye on it for now.

I believe this is a pricey fix from what I have heard. Someone please chim in for us poor S4 owners.

Heath

Could be a base gasket leak, could be a leaky breather.  Clean, run, inspect.  Still can't tell? Clean, spray with aerosol foot powder, run, inspect.  The stain in the powder should lead you to the source.  The four valve bikes need an oil galley to be plugged or the leak will happen again.

Ugh.  :(

It *could* be leaking from the breather valve, but most likely not.
Howie's advice is the starting point to troubleshoot this.

Many an S4 had the base gasket leak, mine included.
I fixed it on mine, so I know the procedure.

Not sure about the cost at a dealer.

It's not rocket science, but a lot of parts have to come off.
Basically, everything above and including the throttle bodies, and the rear cylinder.

Pancake81, if it's not leaking as bad as hydra's pics show, you can leave it until you need your valve clearances done, that will save you some money.
Or, it will save you some time if you do your valves yourself.
Just keep a close eye on it so it doesn't oil down your tire.
If you want to do it yourself, I'll list out what you've got to do.
There's a few traps to fall into on the job.

hey thanks for replying pancake and speeddog!

i'll clean it up and go for a ride and see if it's in the same spot or happens again.
so basically, having too much oil in the case couldn't push the excess oil out the seams and through the gaskets...huh? doesn't sound like it would be a very good design if that were the case... :(
but have you seen or heard excess oil doing this on any ducs?

i'm hoping it's not what you guys are saying.

I've not seen that quantity of oil on the cases by any process other than a base gasket leak.

I hope it's the breather valve puking.
Try the cleanup and ride test.
You won't have to ride it very far to find out.

speeddog, where is the breather valve? sorry this engine is still new to me...

Looks like one of these, mounted to the top rear of the crankcase, right side.

(http://www.motowheels.com/italian/images%5Clg54514970.jpg)

Speeddog,

Your wealth of knowledge on Monsters (S4's inparticular) is incredible, and I think I speak for everyone when I say thanks for all of your imput and advice. You have helped me with several issues in the past and I always look forward to hearing your opinions. Just wanted to get that out  [thumbsup]

Glad I could help.  :)

i've had two monsters with the leaky base gasket problem, both MY2001.  one was a 600, and the other a 750.  the leak on the 750 didn't rear it's head until last fall oddly enough, and it was random...i was just cruising down a city street.  i had the 750 repaired at AMS here in dallas, and that ended up running about $700, but they have a $100/hr labor rate also.  i could be remembering wrong, but i had heard from a few people that the leaky base gasket problem wasn't an issue for the 900 and S4 models.  anyway, hopefully you'll find out it's something simpler or at least less expensive....

good luck!

yeah speeddog's alright in my book (and i guess a lot of people's books), very knowledgable and likes to help people out.

and he's a really nice guy to boot  [thumbsup]

so i'm having some coffee right now and about to go and clean up that oil, then take her out for a quick spin. after examining the breather valve, i did notice that it possible that it's where the oil is coming from. i'll report back in just a bit...

+11ty billion!!  [thumbsup] Thanks a lot, Speeddog..

The S4 is somewhat of a quirky bike, and it really is nice when there's someone to turn to with questions, rather than being left in the dark...

-I can't say I entirely trust my dealer (have heard stories of needless labor fees, 1/2-ass work, etc... I won't name names, but it's no one here), so I'm slowly but surely trying to learn to do as much work as I can on it...

okay, i cleaned her up a little. just soaked up the oil with cotton balls but didn't use any cleaners. i sprayed some foot power in there. i rode her about 3 mi and here's the results....
i'm going to go for a bit of a longer ride right now and post more pics.

(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm6/analogypsy/misc/IMGP0257.jpg)

(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm6/analogypsy/misc/IMGP0258.jpg)

You should not overfill oil in any vehicle.

okay here's the results after a 10 mi run.

no change at the breather valve, so it's obviously not coming from there.

what do you think speeddog? it could be that the base gasket is indeed developing a leak. i'll be doing some errands on the bike today and i'll keep an eye on it. i'm going to call you in 5 mins...

(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm6/analogypsy/misc/IMGP0260.jpg)

(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm6/analogypsy/misc/IMGP0261.jpg)

The oil gallery is where I've drawn the red line.
It actually doesn't continue up into the cylinder, but that's what the boss is for.

The brown stain that's spreading to the left of the line indicates to me that it's leaking from the gallery.

hey speeddog, i don't see the pics...

Sorry, it works better if I actually *attach*  the pic.  :P

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3062/2575312663_d5c136ebb1_o.jpg)

right!

"bill in PKC" pm'd me with this info:


what do you think?

If the breather valve was plugged, and not letting air flow, maybe.

The boss that speeddog has highlighted is the feed to the head. ducati had a problem with sealing this area on some bikes. If you pull the cylinder I would bet that you would find that that is where the leak is coming from. On 4valve motors the feed ends at the cylinder as the 4 valve motors do not use a feed through the cylinder like the 2 valvers do.

If the leak is not bad you can keep it clean and live with it for a long time. If it is pooing enough to get on a tire or the brakes you should really fix the problem.

Something else to check would be to make sure you do not have a pin hole in a hose or your breather box.

my .0002$= base Basket

Bike: 2002 S4
Miles: ~4,300

This weekend, I had (nearly) the same thing happen to me.  After riding it home from the dyno-tune / custom map I put it in the garage.  About 30 minutes later, I noticed candy apple red silkolene dripping down my kickstand originating from some small reservoirs above the crank shaft.  Having just spent $250 on a custom map, I was sorely dissapointed to realize that i might have a bad gasket.  [bang]  I have always been careful not to overfill so I know that was not the case.

A failed gasket at 4,300 miles is a real kick in the pants, particularly when I don't ride (that) hard...

I'll keep you posted with what I find.  This information above was helpful in suggesting what I suspected.

From what I've seen, the base gasket starting to leak hasn't had any correlation to how hard you ride.

Zipper before you go pulling things apart to do a bas gasket clean every thing real well and spray it down with a aerosol foot powder. then run the bike and look for the origin of the leak. A custom PC map takes a lot of runs and some at high rpm you may have forced a leak else where. could be the breather itself,breather box,lines,etc.

May be the base gasket but  rule the rest out first.

I am pret sure he has already covered that.

Thanks everyone above.  I finally had some free time this am to clean everything down, and spray it down with some foot powder.  I went out for a short ride (15 minutes or so) and the oil leak become visible again.  I took a few pictures, but am curious to other opinions? 

1. Everything cleaned off:
(http://www.myfabrik.com/s4ducati/img/r640/31a12792ff76536ef9b9d5a7b4116b5f0a9ce3d508aad2d706dcdc6cb66952b6f0549cf7eab00a8d/DSC04542.JPG)

1. Excellent job getting it clean.  [thumbsup]

2,3. Yes, that looks like a base gasket leak.

4. It's not really a base gasket *replacement* that's necessary.
The base gasket is really a metal shim, and it depends *completely* on the liquid sealer applied at assembly to hold back the pressurized oil in the gallery.
That's why it doesn't always work, because that's a lame thing to do.
Previously, ducati used an O-ring to seal that gallery, which was the proper thing to do.
The gallery needs to be plugged.

I'd expect the price to be toward the upper end of the 'window' they quoted.

+1 good pictures that is defiantly the base gasket. As long as the leak is not getting on the tires it is not a safety issue. Probably loking at 4-5 hours to re-seal the base gasket and on a 4 valve I would  the galleyway in the cases as it is not used to feed the heads.

Speeddo and Ducvet, thank you for the responses. I'm brining it into the shop on Tuesday and will post the final diagnosis and cost for others who might run into this problem down the road.

i've been keeping a close watch on my leak. at the moment, 70 mi of riding and the top of the case fills up with enough oil to fill about 3 of the little rows. i've been bringing cotton balls with me and i'll soak up the oil every time i stop. kind of a pain but i'll be getting speeddog to fix the leak in another 2500mi when i'm due for my next valve adjust.

thanks for posting your leak zipper and keep us posted... [thumbsup]

So I got my S4 with leaky gaskets over to the dealer here (Fast by Ferracci) who said it  was going to cost anywhere from $950 to $1,000 to repair the bas gasket  (gulp).  The mechanic suggested the failure has more to do with years than miles (only 4,300 on mine; 2,000 of them being mine.)  It is also going to take 2 weeks to get the parts.  Kind of a bummer...

Parts?
good to see that dealerships are on the ball enough to have a head gasket in stock. They should be able to do the job in 5 hours (vertical cylinder only) with out a problem.
parts =
1 base gasket
1 head gasket
2 exhast gaskets

I am guessing they are changing both base gaskets at that price.
don't they sell big bore kits? they should keep gaskets on hand to do those jobs.
Failure due more to poor choice of base gasket sealer on ducati's part.