Hypothetically, if one were interested in say making parts for motorcycles what type of engineering would that be?
I'm toying with the idea of going back to school, I have a couple different majors that I've been thinking about so I'm trying to find out as much info as I can on each.
Mechanical for ...well... mechanical bits.
Electrical for ...um... ...well... the electrical stuffs.
;D
(((Hi buddy! How ya been?!?)))
"parts" is pretty vague.
hard parts - mechanical engineer
visual parts - industrial designer
electronics - electrical engineer
control system (ECU, ABS) - electrical or computer engineer
having to do with noise, ride, handling (suspension, exhaust) - mechanical engineer or specialist NVH (noise vibration harshness) engineer or dynamics.
mitt
Quote from: Duck-Stew on March 15, 2011, 02:25:15 PM
Mechanical for ...well... mechanical bits.
Electrical for ...um... ...well... the electrical stuffs.
;D
(((Hi buddy! How ya been?!?)))
I'm doing pretty well, thanks!!
Just contemplating a future, //head in palms//
+1 on the above posts. Mechanical is nice as you get a spring board into machine component design, dynamic systems, fluid dynamics, and heat transfer. My specialty is fluid dynamics which can be applied to everything from engine lubrication to combustion to aerodynamic efficiency and so on.
Quote from: mitt on March 15, 2011, 02:27:03 PM
"parts" is pretty vague.
hard parts - mechanical engineer
visual parts - industrial designer
electronics - electrical engineer
control system (ECU, ABS) - electrical or computer engineer
having to do with noise, ride, handling (suspension, exhaust) - mechanical engineer or specialist NVH (noise vibration harshness) engineer or dynamics.
mitt
Based on what I have going on in my head, I'm thinking mechanical engineering is the one I was talking about.
Now, its off to do some research about said subject!
Quote from: pennyrobber on March 15, 2011, 02:52:10 PM
+1 on the above posts. Mechanical is nice as you get a spring board into machine component design, dynamic systems, fluid dynamics, and heat transfer. My specialty is fluid dynamics which can be applied to everything from engine lubrication to combustion to aerodynamic efficiency and so on.
Judging by your post I assume you quite enjoy what you do?
Quote from: duc750 on March 15, 2011, 03:00:25 PM
Judging by your post I assume you quite enjoy what you do?
I definitely do. It's not that mechanical engineering is better or worse than any other type of engineering, it's just a good fit for me.
Quote from: duc750 on March 15, 2011, 02:54:48 PM
Based on what I have going on in my head, I'm thinking mechanical engineering is the one I was talking about.
Now, its off to do some research about said subject!
Give me a call if you like. ;)
Math was always one of my stronger subjects in high school but that all changed when I got to college. I think that's the only thing I'd be worried about now.
Quote from: Speeddog on March 15, 2011, 03:36:01 PM
Give me a call if you like. ;)
When is a good time to call? I don't wanna keep you from work?
I could come by the shop some time.
Quote from: duc750 on March 15, 2011, 03:42:08 PM
Math was always one of my stronger subjects in high school but that all changed when I got to college. I think that's the only thing I'd be worried about now.
The math classes were the easy ones in engineering. Fortran (Numerical Methods was the class) was what washed me out of ME...I f'ing HATE that program. I have no idea what replaced it, as it was old when I was in school (early 90's).
Quote from: Triple J on March 15, 2011, 04:11:02 PM
The math classes were the easy ones in engineering. Fortran (Numerical Methods was the class) was what washed me out of ME...I f'ing HATE that program. I have no idea what replaced it, as it was old when I was in school (early 90's).
...more fortran:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fortran#Fortran_2008 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fortran#Fortran_2008)
;D
As most of the wikipedia link is jibberish to me, I assume that Fortran is some sort of computer code program?
Quote from: Triple J on March 15, 2011, 04:11:02 PM
The math classes were the easy ones in engineering. Fortran (Numerical Methods was the class) was what washed me out of ME...I f'ing HATE that program. I have no idea what replaced it, as it was old when I was in school (early 90's).
Was it that hard? Did you ever finish?
Quote from: duc750 on March 15, 2011, 04:24:38 PM
As most of the wikipedia link is jibberish to me, I assume that Fortran is some sort of computer code program?
Was it that hard? Did you ever finish?
Ya, it's a computer program. An evil one. I don't think I would ever have done well with computer programming though, regardless of the program. My brain just isn't good at turning a series of actions into an equation. :P Maybe the newer programs are more intuitive???
I switched to Geological Engineering, finished and then got a Masters in Geotechnical Engineering a few years later.
Other than that I liked the ME classes. I actually thought Thermo and Dynamics were pretty easy...which a lot of people think are hard (especially Thermo). Heat Transfer was fun as well...but I had to drop it when I switched majors.
Quote from: duc750 on March 15, 2011, 03:47:43 PM
When is a good time to call? I don't wanna keep you from work?
I could come by the shop some time.
I called your phone.....
FORTRAN is a computer language, like BASIC.
I did it in school with punch cards. [laugh]
Was pretty straightforward to me.
The math was the bytch.
Quote from: Speeddog on March 15, 2011, 04:33:39 PM
FORTRAN is a computer language, like BASIC.
I did it in school with punch cards. [laugh]
Was pretty straightforward to me.
The math was the bytch.
[laugh] Rub it in!
what kinda parts do you want to make?
Being in business is not the same as designing. Going back to school for 4 years vs coming up with an design that you can hire an engineer to verify and fix for you, are 2 different things that you should consider.
Atop of that, you dont need to be an engineer to make most things on a bike unless you start talking about the kinda things like Kyle parts for SBKs or you are looking specifically to redesign something. Thats just 2cents.
Quote from: He Man on March 15, 2011, 04:55:04 PM
what kinda parts do you want to make?
Being in business is not the same as designing. Going back to school for 4 years vs coming up with an design that you can hire an engineer to verify and fix for you, are 2 different things that you should consider.
Atop of that, you dont need to be an engineer to make most things on a bike unless you start talking about the kinda things like Kyle parts for SBKs or you are looking specifically to redesign something. Thats just 2cents.
Making parts would be more like a hobby which may turn into something else in the future but not a huge concern right now.
I'm more interested in a career and a future and if a degree helps to provide that then that's the road I'm gonna have to travel down. I have many solids interests, none of which I am completely sure that I want to do for the rest of my life. Which is why I'm trying to figure out what is involved and what anyone who works in this field thinks before I make the leap.
I have started my own business and I am fully aware that the idea of owning a business is more glorious than actually owning one. That being said, I am more than willing to work for someone else as long as there is some longevity along with enjoyment involved. And a decent paycheck wouldn't be bad either!!
As an engineer myself, you truly don't need a degree to be a good mechanical designer, IMO.
A lot of that comes from a natural knack for things mechanical and an eye for detail.
Quote from: Speedbag on March 15, 2011, 05:56:59 PM
As an engineer myself, you truly don't need a degree to be a good mechanical designer, IMO.
A lot of that comes from a natural knack for things mechanical and an eye for detail.
I'm practically the only one in my company without all sorts of letters after my name. [thumbsup]
Quote from: Speedbag on March 15, 2011, 05:56:59 PM
As an engineer myself, you truly don't need a degree to be a good mechanical designer, IMO.
A lot of that comes from a natural knack for things mechanical and an eye for detail.
Quote from: lethe on March 15, 2011, 06:00:53 PM
I'm practically the only one in my company without all sorts of letters after my name. [thumbsup]
I thought the competition was stiff for people with degrees, let alone the ones without?
I feel like I have a great eye for detail. Moved to NY for photography and ended up starting a chocolate business, but I don't know the first thing about engineering!!
1) If you plan to go into business for yourself, and you're mechanically inclined, you DON'T need a degree to "engineer" anything. (well, a PE license depending on what you want to do...mostly civil, which in some states may require a BSME/BSEE).
2) If you want to work for someone, specifically corporate, the piece of paper means more than what you know...and remember, it's who you blow!
3) Smaller machine shops/design firms are far more open to your background/experience and will accept a broader range of degrees.
Sounds to me like you'd enjoy sitting behind the tube (industry slang for CAD station) designing stuff...maybe look into getting a CAD design degree or something. Just know that most of this type of work, large OEM anyhow, is being farmed out now...UG/ProE are the leading systems right now, potentially Catia, and free-form (sheet metal/complex surfacing) is the big ticket currently.
duc750,
I you show up for DIMBY I will be able to magically engineer a rear hugger and a windscreen that are an exact color match to that pretty green tank you have.
Just sayin'.
sac
Quote from: chris1044 on March 15, 2011, 06:47:56 PM
1) If you plan to go into business for yourself, and you're mechanically inclined, you DON'T need a degree to "engineer" anything. (well, a PE license depending on what you want to do...mostly civil, which in some states may require a BSME/BSEE).
2) If you want to work for someone, specifically corporate, the piece of paper means more than what you know...and remember, it's who you blow!
3) Smaller machine shops/design firms are far more open to your background/experience and will accept a broader range of degrees.
Sounds to me like you'd enjoy sitting behind the tube (industry slang for CAD station) designing stuff...maybe look into getting a CAD design degree or something. Just know that most of this type of work, large OEM anyhow, is being farmed out now...UG/ProE are the leading systems right now, potentially Catia, and free-form (sheet metal/complex surfacing) is the big ticket currently.
So basically what I'm gathering from this is that some sort of schooling is good, maybe not a degree or at the least a CAD degree?
I would enjoy sitting behind the "tube" but what would make me more happy would be to be able to design, then make said design.
Has anyone worked for "the man" and liked it? Were you able to do what you thought you wanted to do or were you basically someone's pregnant dog?
Quote from: Sắc Dục on March 15, 2011, 09:25:08 PM
duc750,
I you show up for DIMBY I will be able to magically engineer a rear hugger and a windscreen that are an exact color match to that pretty green tank you have.
Just sayin'.
sac
That's very tempting.
You can mark me down as a maybe for now.
Quote from: duc750 on March 16, 2011, 01:43:34 AM
So basically what I'm gathering from this is that some sort of schooling is good, maybe not a degree or at the least a CAD degree?
I would enjoy sitting behind the "tube" but what would make me more happy would be to be able to design, then make said design.
If you want to work for "the man" then you'll need a degree, assuming "the man" is a larger firm/corporation. If you want to do design and then the actual production, you need to be at a smaller firm/company that does small volume production runs...anything at an auto company is going to be a very very large production run where a line is involved. You'll never find a job where you do design and make a part at a large company, unless it's proto-type work.
A company like Local Motors might be what you're looking for.
http://www.local-motors.com/ (http://www.local-motors.com/)
They do small production run of ground up designed vehicles. Very cool stuff. I personally always wanted to work for a roller coaster design firm like Arrow Dynamics. They have since gone bankrupt.
If I were in your shoes I think I'd sort of hedge my bets by jumping in and going back to school and taking some math and engineering courses and see what you think. You may catch on fire with it and that's great. Or, if you don't like them, you can drop out and you are still ahead of where you'd be if you never took the classes. At least you would get it out of your system and know that a formal engineering education is not for you. I think part of my point is that as time passes it gets harder to go back to school and sooner than later you'll find yourself in a position where going back to school is just not realistic. So do it now is my suggestion.
Bob
Quote from: Triple J on March 15, 2011, 04:31:27 PM
Heat Transfer was fun as well...but I had to drop it when I switched majors.
did you drop it like it's hot? ;D ;D ;D sorry.
Sean - good on ya for contemplating a change. the nice thing about so-cal is that it seems to be ground-zero for car/bike customization type places. what about offering to apprentice for one of those local businesses (like some of the ones listed in the sponsor section of this site)? i.e. work for free in exchange for learning some stuff and getting a flavor for the work. hell, if i had the time, i'd offer to sweep Speeddog's shop floor just to hang out and watch and learn!
Sean...buddy...we should talk. This may surprise you, but I am actually an engineer. Go figure...
Quote from: duc750 on March 16, 2011, 01:45:10 AM
That's very tempting.
You can mark me down as a maybe for now.
[roll]
sac
Quote from: Langanobob on March 16, 2011, 02:10:50 PM
If I were in your shoes I think I'd sort of hedge my bets by jumping in and going back to school and taking some math and engineering courses and see what you think. You may catch on fire with it and that's great. Or, if you don't like them, you can drop out and you are still ahead of where you'd be if you never took the classes. At least you would get it out of your system and know that a formal engineering education is not for you. I think part of my point is that as time passes it gets harder to go back to school and sooner than later you'll find yourself in a position where going back to school is just not realistic. So do it now is my suggestion.
Bob
I'm thinking this is gonna be the route I take. Figure if I take both math and science it will meet the requirements for both engineering and marine biology, maybe throw an engineering class in the mix as well and see which route I like better or suits me better anyway.
It is definitely getting harder to convince myself now at 32, I agree, I think it would be much harder as the years go on.
Quote from: DucofWestwood on March 16, 2011, 02:45:22 PM
Sean - good on ya for contemplating a change. the nice thing about so-cal is that it seems to be ground-zero for car/bike customization type places. what about offering to apprentice for one of those local businesses (like some of the ones listed in the sponsor section of this site)? i.e. work for free in exchange for learning some stuff and getting a flavor for the work. hell, if i had the time, i'd offer to sweep Speeddog's shop floor just to hang out and watch and learn!
I've actually thought about this already, might give Nick a shout and see what he thinks. I asked Duc-Stew when he still lived here but he left shorty after. It's worth a shot!
Quote from: orangelion03 on March 16, 2011, 03:20:36 PM
Sean...buddy...we should talk. This may surprise you, but I am actually an engineer. Go figure...
As soon as I have some free time to talk on the phone for a bit, I will. I wanna call Nick too, I just haven't had enough time to have a real conversation.
Quote from: Sắc Dục on March 16, 2011, 03:28:58 PM
[roll]
sac
I knew that was coming!! ;)
I have a pal I'm trying to convince to join, he doesn't ride a duc though. I told him he wouldn't be shunned.........too much!!
At the risk of offending all of the engineers, here's my perspective. Remember this is only MY personnel experience. I absolutely hate just about every engineer I've worked with. I started out doing TIG welding and fabrication for 12 years, quit and went to a two year electrical program. For the past 15 years I've been an electrical technician for a national company that manufactures roofing products. I do PLC and HMI programming now.
I know there are engineers that actually engineer things and know what they are doing, I just haven't had the chance to work with one yet.. Here's a perfect example from about 15 years ago. The boss brings me a blueprint for a table designed by a food-service engineer. I look at it and tell the boss the table is gonna fall over. The boss says "build it". So I build it and yell at the boss to take a look. Sure enough when I let go, it falls over. WTF! Still pisses me off 15 years later.
Where I work now if you have an engineering degree you're qualified to be in management. Ordering components from a vendor is not engineering. Especially if the vendor is specing the components. If we get new equipment the the high school education guys design and install all of the piping/valves, design the conduit runs, size the wire and do the programming. The engineer gets the free hunting/fishing trip with the vendor.
I also have a sister-in-law that has a masters in mechanical engineering. She couldn't tighten the chain on a bicycle. She goes all over the world buying parts. [roll]
You can build anything you want without an engineering degree. There are tons of online engineering calculators that don't cost a thing.
Take some machinist classes or some welding classes. You can do it if you want to.
Sorry for the rant engineers
Quote from: RMartin on March 17, 2011, 06:10:23 PM
At the risk of offending all of the engineers, here's my perspective. Remember this is only MY personnel experience.
I am so offended right now. ;)
Honestly, I wouldn't sit in a chair if I knew it was designed by half the people that I graduated with. It really does take a knack that can't be taught in the classroom. The best engineers that I know were the people who were taking apart stuff around the house and trying to make it better way before they ever took an engineering class.
To be fair, I have worked with some young electrical engineers(vendors) that were very sharp.
Quote from: pennyrobber on March 17, 2011, 06:23:49 PM
It really does take a knack that can't be taught in the classroom. The best engineers that I know were the people who were taking apart stuff around the house and trying to make it better way before they ever took an engineering class.
+1
I tore everything apart as a kid. Still do.
I've been designing automated equipment for 15 years, and like to think I know what I'm doing (no failures!). I had a management gig briefly (late '08 thru early '10) but I missed the hardcore mechanical design end of things so much I had to get back into it, and when a former co-worker sought me out to be The Guy for his new group it was a no-brainer.
There's
great satisfaction in designing and building something that takes on a sort of life of its own.
But I know what you mean by there being a lot of folks out there that can't engineer their way out of a wet paper sack. I work with a guy that's got a master's in mechanical engineering and it's like he never absorbed a thing....
Quote from: RMartin on March 17, 2011, 06:10:23 PM
At the risk of offending all of the engineers, here's my perspective. Remember this is only MY personnel experience. I absolutely hate just about every engineer I've worked with. I started out doing TIG welding and fabrication for 12 years, quit and went to a two year electrical program. For the past 15 years I've been an electrical technician for a national company that manufactures roofing products. I do PLC and HMI programming now.
I know there are engineers that actually engineer things and know what they are doing, I just haven't had the chance to work with one yet.. Here's a perfect example from about 15 years ago. The boss brings me a blueprint for a table designed by a food-service engineer. I look at it and tell the boss the table is gonna fall over. The boss says "build it". So I build it and yell at the boss to take a look. Sure enough when I let go, it falls over. WTF! Still pisses me off 15 years later.
Where I work now if you have an engineering degree you're qualified to be in management. Ordering components from a vendor is not engineering. Especially if the vendor is specing the components. If we get new equipment the the high school education guys design and install all of the piping/valves, design the conduit runs, size the wire and do the programming. The engineer gets the free hunting/fishing trip with the vendor.
I also have a sister-in-law that has a masters in mechanical engineering. She couldn't tighten the chain on a bicycle. She goes all over the world buying parts. [roll]
You can build anything you want without an engineering degree. There are tons of online engineering calculators that don't cost a thing.
Take some machinist classes or some welding classes. You can do it if you want to.
Sorry for the rant engineers
X50bazillion...and I'm an engineer. There are those that can do, but there are very few that have the skills/hands on knowledge. A degree does NOT make you an engineer.
While I agree that there are a lot of bad engineers, and getting an engineering degree doesn't really mean much more than a person can study...
Quote from: RMartin on March 17, 2011, 06:10:23 PM
You can build anything you want without an engineering degree. There are tons of online engineering calculators that don't cost a thing.
This statement is a gross oversimplification.
Also, anyone who believes what a computer spits out without knowing exactly how the computer came to that answer is setting themselves up for problems.
Quote from: Triple J on March 18, 2011, 08:21:11 AM
While I agree that there are a lot of bad engineers, and getting an engineering degree doesn't really mean much more than a person can study...
This statement is a gross oversimplification.
Also, anyone who believes what a computer spits out without knowing exactly how the computer came to that answer is setting themselves up for problems.
Most opinions are...
from the other perspective. ;D
Quote from: ducpainter on March 18, 2011, 08:23:37 AM
Most opinions are...
from the other perspective. ;D
True. [laugh]
Maybe I should tell some stories of contractor proposals I've reviewed which would have led to serious failures and ultimately injury, if not death, to their own workers. All in the name of saving a few $$. ;)
There are always stories from both sides. :)
Damned engineers. ;D
Quote from: Triple J on March 18, 2011, 08:21:11 AM
While I agree that there are a lot of bad engineers, and getting an engineering degree doesn't really mean much more than a person can study...
I think it also means that the person has some discipline, patience and perseverance to get through 4 years of tough schooling.
Employers probably see it as less of a gamble to invest in one of these people than a self taught prodigy.
The paper puts your money where your mouth is. When it comes time to do something though, most engineers don't know a damn thing becase in engineering school, they teach you concept of how it works, not how its applied.
Its just like the story RMartin wrote about. You dont need to be an engineer to look at a plan and say, thats not going to work.
Quote from: Triple J on March 18, 2011, 08:21:11 AM
Also, anyone who believes what a computer spits out without knowing exactly how the computer came to that answer is setting themselves up for problems.
Actually, ill say for a fact that for most of common problems that you come across you dont need to know where the answer comes from. Its the highly technical ones that require you really dig deep into the math and understanding.
Quote from: Vindingo on March 18, 2011, 09:01:56 AM
I think it also means that the person has some discipline, patience and perseverance to get through 4 years of tough schooling.
True. I didn't mean to marginalize the accomplishment, because it is one of the more challenging college degrees.
Quote from: He Man on March 18, 2011, 10:54:51 AM
Actually, ill say for a fact that for most of common problems that you come across you dont need to know where the answer comes from. Its the highly technical ones that require you really dig deep into the math and understanding.
A good engineer knows the answer, or close to it, before the program spits one out. That was my point. Relying blindly on a program for any answer without knowing how it is being derived is a bad idea.
A question related to liability of components designed by engineers versus non-engineers. If a component used on one of our bikes for instance was to fail resulting in injury or worse death what legal recourse would someone have toward the designer if they are not an engineer. What liability insurance is required for engineers designing components for use on public roads? Is registration as a professional engineer not required in order to get such insurance?
I have often wondered how all these fabricators of custom bikes or cars can register vehicles without this type of insurance. I know that all lot of these component manufacturers get around this by stating that their components are for "Race Use Only" which absolve them of all responsibility should the component be used on the street.
Food for thought.
So my GF and I have been talking about moving back to where I'm from, NY. That being said, I'll have to wait a bit to regain residency so that school is cheaper but I have decided to take on a few classes that satisfy both majors.
Having to wait a bit will afford me the time to research which schools to look in to, make sure all of my paperwork is in order, and to look in to financial aid.
Someone mentioned earlier in the thread that CAD classes would be good to take, does anyone know if they are part of getting an ME degree or would I have to add that to the existing degree requirements?
Quote from: Triple J on March 18, 2011, 11:01:24 AM
True. I didn't mean to marginalize the accomplishment, because it is one of the more challenging college degrees.
A good engineer knows the answer, or close to it, before the program spits one out. That was my point. Relying blindly on a program for any answer without knowing how it is being derived is a bad idea.
I've got a fun story about that.
Was working at a job shop in Golden,Co as a machinist.
Bad engineer calls Monday afternoon, tells the owner (one of the best machinist I've ever had the honor of working with) "need a part Wednesday first thing, faxing a print right now".
Tuesday, Randy grabs the print to go hunt down the correct material, notices an error. Calls bad engineer to point out problem and is told " I'm the make the beast with two backsing engineer, my prints are always right, just make the part".
Wednasday 0700 bad engineer shows up to collect part. Randy hands him a baggie full of chips. Bad engineer :o "WTF". Randy "When the I.D. is larger than the O.D. all that's left is chips", he then reach in his pocket and gives the correct part , " I knew what you really wanted, next time I tell you there's a problem, you might want to listen".
I have worked with a lot of bad engineers, and a few good ones. Yes taking things apart and owning guns, bikes, cars, motorcycles is definitely sided toward the good ones, but no guarantee. The best engineer I have worked with had a math and physics degree - not an engineering degree. He broke down problems into their basic building blocks and then went up in complexity from there.
mitt
QuoteA question related to liability of components designed by engineers versus non-engineers. If a component used on one of our bikes for instance was to fail resulting in injury or worse death what legal recourse would someone have toward the designer if they are not an engineer. What liability insurance is required for engineers designing components for use on public roads? Is registration as a professional engineer not required in order to get such insurance?
Engineer or not, liability insurance is not a requirement to sell a product. I'm not an engineer but I'm looking at liability insurance for the fabrication business I'm starting. So far, the quotes are 5-7k a year for product liability insurance. Insurance companies don't care if your an engineer as long as you pay the premium.
A while back I told our plant engineer I was going to build a Ti frame for a Ducati. He looks at me and says, "how can you do that, you're not an engineer". LOL You had to know this guy to appreciate that.
One day I asked our process engineer, who is a mechanical engineer that graduated from Auburn, about modulus of elasticity of different metals. He wasn't sure exactly what it was but vaguely remembered reading about it one time. :o
I doubt that most of those guys building custom choppers carry any liability insurance and I'm pretty sure Jesse James is not an engineer.
Quote from: Triple J on March 18, 2011, 11:01:24 AM
A good engineer knows the answer, or close to it, before the program spits one out. That was my point. Relying blindly on a program for any answer without knowing how it is being derived is a bad idea.
Oh, i got your point now. Yea, a person who UNDERSTANDS engineering will know if the answer is right or not. off the top of your head, you should know if the number is too big or small and you can go back and chekc what value would of given you the error from there.
Quote from: sno_duc on March 22, 2011, 07:05:46 PM
"When the I.D. is larger than the O.D. all that's left is chips"
The plane takes off!!!!!
Quote from: sno_duc on March 22, 2011, 07:05:46 PM
I've got a fun story about that.
Classic! [laugh]
I work in heavy civil, not mechanical...but I have yet to see a perfect set of plans go out for bid. Including mine.
Quote from: duc750 on March 22, 2011, 07:04:51 PM
Someone mentioned earlier in the thread that CAD classes would be good to take, does anyone know if they are part of getting an ME degree or would I have to add that to the existing degree requirements?
A CAD class was part of the ME degree where I got my undergrad. (I took it before switching to GE).
Regarding CAD classes. If you are a registered student (doesnt really matter where or what field), you can buy student versions of some software relatively cheap. I know ProE had it, and I think Solidworks does too. You can then use the built-in tutors to learn the basic operations and go from there. There may be online classes as well.
I am a degree mechanical engineer and I knew long before I graduated to pay attention to the guys that would be fabricating or assembling what I was designing. I had the benefit of a father who is a "natural" engineer (no degree but years of practical experience), and while I was in school I worked part-time and summers as a technician for the test equipment design team of a large aerospace corporation.
It was an AutoCad print.
In my decades in machine shops, I've noticed that the old hand drawn prints have fewer errors compared to AutoCad prints.
Plus they were scaled so can use a rule to deduce diminsions, with Autocad to many are "Scaled to fit".
Another arrogant engineer story.
Back in the early 80's was working for Rockwell Int.
Anyone here familar with "compounding tolerences"??
Young (ink still wet on sheepskin) cocky engineer designed a window frame all 304 ss.
Basically one side had 1/4-20 tapped holes spaced 1" ± 0.015, mating part had 9/64" holes spaced 1" ± 0.015.
Being lazy he cut and pasted 1" ±0.015 and used it every where, instead of correctly drawing 1"±0.015, 2"±0.015, 3".......
So, when I made the parts, the tapped hole side was drilled and tapped 0.990 ±0.001 spacing, the hole side was drilled 1.010 ±0.001 spacing.
Needless to say only 3 or 4 bolts could be installed.
He was livid, stormed in to see my supervisor. My boss grabbed a pair of dail calipers, checked the parts against the print, and told the cocky engineer that "the parts were in tolerence, and if he wished to push it my boss would call the engineer's boss".
Yes, I had to do the job twice. However it was worth it because the engineers started to treat the machine shop with a little more respect.
Quote from: Triple J on March 23, 2011, 08:16:04 AM
Classic! [laugh]
I work in heavy civil, not mechanical...but I have yet to see a perfect set of plans go out for bid. Including mine.
A CAD class was part of the ME degree where I got my undergrad. (I took it before switching to GE).
From personal experience it is best to take CAD courses at a junior college rather than an university, because the instructors at junior colleges come from the real world and the instructors at universities come from universities. Situations may vary, but definitely interview the instructor to make sure they didn't just take the 1 week course from the CAD vendor last week and are "teaching" this week.
Quote from: sno_duc on March 22, 2011, 07:05:46 PM
I've got a fun story about that. . . .
Oldest story in the book told by every machinist.
Quote from: He Man on March 22, 2011, 09:53:19 PM
Oh, i got your point now. Yea, a person who UNDERSTANDS engineering will know if the answer is right or not. off the top of your head, you should know if the number is too big or small and you can go back and chekc what value would of given you the error from there.
The plane takes off!!!!!
"Off the top of their head" No, unless they've seen the particular design before or something similar before. I'm assuming the reference was to FEA for "the program." The saying for FEA is that it will make a good engineer great and a bad engineer dangerous. A good engineer will correctly analyze the loading conditions and have done some basic calculations before setting up a FEA model then compare the results which should be within a small percentage difference from one another. A good engineer doesn't 'need' FEA, but it helps interrogate designs to make them more efficient.
Purdue's ME program has everyone go into the machine shop at least once to build a hammer from a piece of brass hex stock. Hands are held through the project and it's very cute and cuddly, but at least it's an intro.
OTOH, I spent quite a bit of time working in the student machine shop as the shop assistant... and good lord, I saw some STUPID SHIT. Ever see an engineer try to cut a garden hose with a tube cutter (see below)? I have. I told him it wouldn't work... he tried anyways.
(http://lh4.googleusercontent.com/public/jomO8BcYlWH1K04KPiOGYTrrpHiGxldRGm5Mhcc95VfHq-ri9XErUf-la8TiO-Ze_ZCooiKEWLzPl05kd-2i2vt8_GD8foasZm8MWSee-JTPMtLimYtA1ndmjB_pU8UzwGI2khFsPBauzk5i2-mRVMY4gFhlR_3XGFGder3Z3twE-W6Vj2Gg69-t4WfiUBFcPbVgMLD2B0VXe4DJ36MACKVM)
So like many above me... I wouldn't trust the guys I went to school with any further than I can throw them. They had all the equations and book knowledge to get the degree... but hadn't gotten good at applying that knowledge yet.