I feel make the beast with two backsing ignorant for asking this but it's a completely new scenario for me. I ride a fair bit of twisties, but I'm slow as shit. I have no desire to wick it up until I get better gear and proper healthcare. I also mostly ride alone and in places where I encounter very few other vehicles. I'm generally faster than any cagers around but a retarded monkey on a Burgman could smoke my ass in the twisties.
That said, me and another dude are gonna be riding the Dragon on Fri morning. He's on a Harley, I'm on the monster. It's a safe bet that we will be the 2 slowest dudes out there. What's the safest and most polite way to handle the riotous crowds wanting to get around us? I understand the whole "ride your own ride" thing, but I don't want to be an inconsiderate ass to others.
I've no idea if there's a "proper way" to handle that.
My own policy is to keep far enough right so that riders who know what they're doing can pass safely.
I suppose the flip-side of that is that it might invite jerkasses in cars to do the same, only much less safely. :P
Here's what I do on well-populated roads. YMMV.
Ride your ride, but make sure you check your six regularly. Not so much that you're not looking where you are going or are too worried about everyone behind you, but use your mirrors.
If someone is coming up on you fast or is already on you, indicate that you know they are there. I throw up a hand to say hi or something like that. When it's safe, move to the right to let them pass. You can tell them (with hand guestures) to hold on or to pass. When there's a good place to pass, wave 'em by. If they don't take it, do it once more at another time. If they don't take it the second, then don't worry about them. Or just pull over the next chance you get if that makes you feel more comfy. People will either be cool and wait, in which case this will all work perfectly, or they'll be dicks and might even try to pass you before you know they're there. If they're dicks, you're allowed to kick them off their bike and into opposing traffic.
When you're not letting someone pass, stay in the middle of the lane. If you stay to the right, someone will take it upon themselves to pass you. Remember that it's up to the folks who pass to pass safely. That said, don't rely on that fact. Expect someone to scare the shit out of you.
Let me reiterate what I said initially. Don't spend the entire time thinking about what's going on behind you. Look forward and ride your ride. But make sure you check behind you occassionally to let faster (or dumber or both) riders past.
Edit: work out some system with your Harley buddy ahead of time so that you each know what you're doing. Otherwise, it's gonna be a clustermake the beast with two backs as faster riders try to get by both of you at once or get caught up in between the two of you.
I'm a Gap vet and the answer is easy. If it's a bike pull to the right side of the lane on a straight stretch and wave them past. If it's a car there are multiple (finally) freshly paved pulloffs. You'll get a thank you wave almost every time. Odds are good you'll be shocked, you might think you're slow until you come up behind the guy going so slow you don't know how he keeps the billet barge upright. He wont pull over. Seven years of riding the Gap and I always manage to find that guy...
ride your ride. its the passers responsibility to pass safely. it helps if you have room to give way, but do so without compromising your safety.
Quote from: Artful on March 16, 2011, 08:12:43 PMbillet barge
[laugh] [laugh] [laugh]
Never heard that one before.
Quote from: Spidey on March 16, 2011, 08:08:02 PMIf they're dicks, you're allowed to kick them off their bike and into opposing traffic.
I can see it now... "But officer, some lawyer on the internet said I could!"
I find this situation... quite different.
I'm the one that's always doing the passing , I just look for an opening and go.
I shouldn't think it much bothers the rider I'm passing...since I'm by in a blink .
I don't tail gate if at all possible .
I'm there....then gone.
Don't worry about it.
Although, that's probably the last place I'd go this weekend to ride in that area.
Way too much traffic.
Dolph [moto]
.
There IS pretty heavy traffic down there, though this weekend is early enough that it should be comparatively light. That being said, do yourself a favor and hit the Cherohala Skyway and NC 28 as well. They're arguably better roads (the Skyway is my favorite) and traffic is MUCH lighter.
For 28 just make the left at the resort. Great stretch of road and is as long as you feel like riding. Make the right towards Robbinsville and it'll dump back on the NC side of the Tail.
For the Skyway head down past the end of the Tail on 129 and watch for signs on your right (or left if you just followed my directions from 28). Gas up before hitting the Skyway at the new station (Chevron I think? It's red, white, and blue) then at the end of the Skyway make the right to get on 360. Stay on 360 (there are a few turns to make, one is a T that is poorly marked, turn left) until 411, make a right on 411 then another right in about 15-20 miles to get back on 129 and do the Tail again.
And Dolph I'm sure you're a great rider and do your best to respect the road rights of others but passing down there is a stupid endeavor. The turns are incredibly tight and blind, and you don't know the skill level of the person you are passing. Sure you might not even come close to them, but if they don't know you are there and you blast by them without much warning you have to worry about spooking them and making them make mistakes. Especially someone that is already way above their skill level. All it takes is one extra stimuli and they're off the side. Wait until they know you are there, and give them a headlight flash before you just blow by them.
Quote from: DoubleEagle on March 16, 2011, 10:43:01 PM
I'm the one that's always doing the passing , I just look for an opening and go.
I shouldn't think it much bothers the rider I'm passing...since I'm by in a blink .
Speed Racer. [laugh]
Quote from: DoubleEagle on March 16, 2011, 10:43:01 PM
I shouldn't think it much bothers the rider I'm passing...since I'm by in a blink .
<boo> <hiss> I assume you're traveling too quickly to see whether you just caused a new--and skittish--rider to plow into a tree by blowing by him at mach 3. [roll]
Riding like nob is one thing. make the beast with two backsing with others is an entirely different animal. [thumbsdown]
Quote from: DoubleEagle on March 16, 2011, 10:43:01 PM
I'm the one that's always doing the passing , I just look for an opening and go.
I shouldn't think it much bothers the rider I'm passing...since I'm by in a blink .
I'm one of the slow guys you're passing. I don't mind being passed as long as you don't buzz me like Maverick in Top Gun buzzing the tower.
If you do it in a stupid spot or get way too close to me, it does bother me. When us slow people are in our groove, riding our pace and someone goes by like a f-18, it can be unnerving.
something to consider.
A week ago I was coming home on my Monster. It was dry and sunny for a change so when I hit the 3km dead straight stretch of two lane road, I cranked 'er up to 160kph and held it there. I was looking ahead for the police, dogs, pot holes, and other dangerous stuff rather than checking my mirrors figuring that nobody would be catching me at that speed. The limit is marked at 70kph in that area.
I was startled to see a guy on a BMW passing me at what must have been at least 200kph. That's OK, but he was a little close for my tastes. This is a wide two lane; wide enough so that the typical low powered car most folks drive here in Italy can easily go three wide so as to cut a little slack to the guy doing the passing. Of course, in the U.S. this sort of three wide maneuver would cause a 28 car pile up. But here in Italy everyone just slides over a bit and the guy caught out, just straddles the center line, takes no more room than necessary, and life goes on as usual. Nobody lifts, slams on the brakes, honks their horn, shoots the bird, or anything else. It's simply the way things are done.
So, all this is fine with me, but on a nice wide road like this why was it necessary for the guy in the BMW to nearly brush my left ankle with his right-side valve cover? I guess he thought it was funny to see my little Ducati put-putting along at a measly 160 and wanted to show me how the old Youth Corps still has the right stuff. Who knows, but it was not funny to me. Interesting, but not funny.
Quote from: Artful on March 16, 2011, 10:53:10 PM
There IS pretty heavy traffic down there, though this weekend is early enough that it should be comparatively light. That being said, do yourself a favor and hit the Cherohala Skyway and NC 28 as well. They're arguably better roads (the Skyway is my favorite) and traffic is MUCH lighter.
For 28 just make the left at the resort. Great stretch of road and is as long as you feel like riding. Make the right towards Robbinsville and it'll dump back on the NC side of the Tail.
For the Skyway head down past the end of the Tail on 129 and watch for signs on your right (or left if you just followed my directions from 28). Gas up before hitting the Skyway at the new station (Chevron I think? It's red, white, and blue) then at the end of the Skyway make the right to get on 360. Stay on 360 (there are a few turns to make, one is a T that is poorly marked, turn left) until 411, make a right on 411 then another right in about 15-20 miles to get back on 129 and do the Tail again.
And Dolph I'm sure you're a great rider and do your best to respect the road rights of others but passing down there is a stupid endeavor. The turns are incredibly tight and blind, and you don't know the skill level of the person you are passing. Sure you might not even come close to them, but if they don't know you are there and you blast by them without much warning you have to worry about spooking them and making them make mistakes. Especially someone that is already way above their skill level. All it takes is one extra stimuli and they're off the side. Wait until they know you are there, and give them a headlight flash before you just blow by them.
Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that I would ride like that on the " Tail " because I have no desire to ride the " Tail . "
My riding is about finding the roads w, the least amount of traffic so I CAN ride my ride.
The " Tail " is totally not my kind of ride. '' I like the fast and technical roads ...not slow and technical roads ."
Dolph [moto]
Quote from: kopfjäger on March 16, 2011, 11:10:59 PM
Speed Racer. [laugh]
You rang ?
Dolph (http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn198/DoubleEagle_photo/pimp.gif)
Quote from: Spidey on March 16, 2011, 11:14:28 PM
<boo> <hiss> I assume you're traveling too quickly to see whether you just caused a new--and skittish--rider to plow into a tree by blowing by him at mach 3. [roll]
Riding like nob is one thing. make the beast with two backsing with others is an entirely different animal. [thumbsdown]
I pass on straights ..even if they are very short in length.
They know I'm coming..they can see my lights and I go very wide.
Most riders once they see my lights motion for me to go around .
It's like ...well he wasn't there a second ago , he must be going fast , I think I'll motion him to pass. ( except the H-Ds ).
Dolph :)
Quote from: Privateer on March 16, 2011, 11:19:10 PM
I'm one of the slow guys you're passing. I don't mind being passed as long as you don't buzz me like Maverick in Top Gun buzzing the tower.
If you do it in a stupid spot or get way too close to me, it does bother me. When us slow people are in our groove, riding our pace and someone goes by like a f-18, it can be unnerving.
something to consider.
I only strafe the H-D riders since they never wave me to pass.
So I drop it down a couple of cogs and one time I hit a stretch of about 1/2 mile of broken yellow line and passed 10-12 of them in one pass..must have been going 135 mph when I passed the last one and didn't slow down much below 85 mph for the next 10 miles so I never saw them again.
Besides I turned on another road and they probably stayed on the HWY still going 55 mph.
They ride in groups , sometimes as many as 20 or more and they can hold up the whole works.
Fine , but I'm not riding 55 mph all day ...I'm on a Mission from ..God !
I love to strafe them H-Ds....
Good thing we have conceal carry , lest I break and along they come and want to start shit....
Dolph :)
It is the responsibility of the faster vehicle to make a safe pass. The thing you need to do is hold your line so the overtaker doesn't have to guess where you're going. Only move to the right and wave them by on straights and if you're comfortable with the situation.
Quote from: DoubleEagle on March 17, 2011, 04:13:03 AM
Good thing we have conceal carry , lest I break and along they come and want to start shit....
Dolph :)
I guess that's one way to look at it. [roll]
You pass, scare the shit out of someone and assuming they don't crash they find you at the next stop to let you know and you threaten them with a gun. A sure fire way to keep up that stupid motorcycle camaraderie we have.
To the OP, what Spidey said is probably both the safest and smartest way to handle yourself on just about any road! Above all else, remember to have fun!
Ride safe.
Quote from: Privateer on March 16, 2011, 11:19:10 PM
I'm one of the slow guys you're passing. I don't mind being passed as long as you don't buzz me like Maverick in Top Gun buzzing the tower.
If you do it in a stupid spot or get way too close to me, it does bother me. When us slow people are in our groove, riding our pace and someone goes by like a f-18, it can be unnerving.
something to consider.
I understand what you're saying.
Let me try one more time to give you a picture of what it's like where I ride for the most part.
Unlike many of you I get as far away from civilization as I can. I always ride alone.
I live minutes from hills, valleys, ridges and most importantly ...forests.
If I go riding during the early part of the week , chances are I might not see in 150-175 miles , 10 other motorcycles going in either direction.
May be 1 -2 or no Police cars ( except when I have to go to a small town for gas ).
What I do see are Logging trucks , just a few, Coal trucks, just a few, may be some Deer or a wild Turkey or 2..
During the height of Tourist season I ride through many State Parks and there is traffic , RVs, and the Parks Rangers.
I take it easy inside the Parks.
Due to the Parks , and B & Bs , there is a good amount of Tourism , therefore the roads in the surrounding areas are very good pavement wise.
Several of the Parks are in National Forests.
There I can ride my ride.
I encounter very little traffic and can ride fast without scaring others but myself.
Every time I go out to ride , I go out with the intent to better myself from the last time I rode.
I have a series of roads that I can ride in combonations that I have ridden many times so I have them memorized and practice my lines and over the last 3 years have been able to increase my speed in the corners from practicing and watching DVDS and reading up on techniques and then going out and practicing more.
I pretty much know my limits on each of my bikes and keep them in tip top shape.
I wear ATTGATT for what that's worth.
Saved a lot of skin in the past but not broken bones.
I hope I've learned from some aweful painful mistakes once 3 years ago in the Spring w, my 1st Ducati , and then again it the Fall of 2009.
I'm not anywhere near a perfect rider ..nor the fastest rider but I think I do alright for what it is I like to do.
I'm sure there are those who have never seen me ride that would debate my skills.
I see so very few begining riders out in the forest where I spend my time.
I can usually tell.
If someone is going slow and brakes on the slightest down grade , then I know they don't feel comfortable w, their bike yet.
I hardly ever use the brake except to stop.
I let the engine brake for me.
Gonig down hills , I'm usually gunning it no matter the steepness of the grade.
When I 1st got my Monster S4Rs , I was scared to go down steep hills..now I relish them, what easier way to pick up speed easier on the gas !
Don't ride as I do.
I am the exception, not the rule.
It's the way I've lived my whole life !
My way .
Dolph [moto]
As mentioned, there's a lot of pull off areas in that, erm, area. If someone seems liek they want by, just avail yourself of the next one that's reasonable.
And of course, if it's a bike your can pull right and wave them on in a section that's safe (straightish) to do so. Though if you're in the twisty part of the dragon, there's really no place for that - just the pull offs
Ride your ride and let the fast guys go fast
Simple is better. Hold your line in corners, concentrate and be safe. If you notice someone behind you, they can wait. On straits, move to the right and wave them by.
Quote from: pennyrobber on March 17, 2011, 07:01:02 AM
Simple is better. Hold your line in corners, concentrate and be safe. If you notice someone behind you, they can wait. On straits, move to the right and wave them by.
Yut! [thumbsup]
I agree, be safe in the corners but make it easy for another to pass you safely on the straights. From the perspective of a sorta-fast guy the absolute worst is being stuck behind someone who parks it in the corners then blasts down the straights. Hard to pass someone like that in a friendly/safe manner, but boring as heck being stuck behind...
I'd say the same goes for cages too. If you get a fast cage behind you on the dragon they'll usually make a pass, how clean the pass is just depends on how easy you make it on them. I've found that many cages return the favor and move over to let you pass if you catch them.
I generally only ride the dragon in bad weather - that weeds out the noobs and there usually aren't cops. Otherwise its too crowded.
If you see a local-looking guy on a white 848 tuck in behind him and learn - he's darn good and knows that road extremely well.
It's a public road...not a race track. Treat it as such and have a nice ride.
I always thought with H-D riders, they never wave you past for the simple reason that for the Majority of H-D riders if they
remove a hand from the Bars, even for a split second, they will Crash. or... Is that BMW Riders? [cheeky]
Quote from: SpankyDuc on March 17, 2011, 02:21:37 PM
I always thought with H-D riders, they never wave you past for the simple reason that for the Majority of H-D riders if they
remove a hand from the Bars, even for a split second, they will Crash. or... Is that BMW Riders? [cheeky]
Unlike Ducati riders, we're practiced at riding one handed. How else are we supposed to hold our Starbucks?
Quote from: SpankyDuc on March 17, 2011, 02:21:37 PM
I always thought with H-D riders, they never wave you past for the simple reason that for the Majority of H-D riders if they
remove a hand from the Bars, even for a split second, they will Crash. or... Is that BMW Riders? [cheeky]
I see a lot of H-D riders w, their left hand on their left thigh. (http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn198/DoubleEagle_photo/smoke.gif)
Dolph
Quote from: duc750 on March 17, 2011, 04:58:01 AM
I guess that's one way to look at it. [roll]
You pass, scare the shit out of someone and assuming they don't crash they find you at the next stop to let you know and you threaten them with a gun. A sure fire way to keep up that stupid motorcycle camaraderie we have.
I think I was misunderstood .
I believe I said that if my bike broke after I had strafed a group of H-D riders and they stopped and STARTED something I would be glad I was carrying.
Meaning self defense...not ME threatening ANYBODY .
Dolph
Like Artful said, there are better roads to ride in that area. Cherohala and the rest of 28 below the Dragon is great. I live on 28 down in South Carolina and from where I live all the way to the Dragon is some of the best highway in the country. Too many crazy people who are gunning to be the fastest on the Dragon to suit me. Hell all the highways in that area are great riding.
Like many have said ride your own ride and don't worry so much about who's behind, but do check out the mirrors once and a while.
Google the roads in the area. This is like the Garden of Eden, most of it temperate rain forest, with a racetrack running through it. Mind you now, I'm not condoning exceeding the speed limit. ;D ;D [leo]
LA
http://www.cherohala.com/ (http://www.cherohala.com/)
At a place like the Gap, I'll hang behind the slower rider a safe distance for a few corners until I feel they probably have noticed me and then I shoot by if I see a chance giving them room.
The other roads down there like Cherahola and my favorite Rt 28, passing is easier although I'll admit to doing some dumb ones.
Up here, there are far more safe places to pass as the roads aren't quite as tight.
Well, I'm gonna go ahead and say it. Way. Over. Rated.
Don't get me wrong, I had a blast, but I was expecting more I guess. And it was apparently pirate day at the Gap Store. Thought I had missed a turn and ended up at Sturgis.
Didn't hit Cherahola, but followed 28 to 74 to 441 back to Gatlinburg. Now that was a balls-out riot till we hit the construction on 74 or 441 (don't remember which). Lots of traffic and loose sandy debris on the road. Topped off by some make the beast with two backsbucket in a Mazda Tribute driving 15-20 mph the whole god damn way from Cherokee to Gatlinburg. [bang] [bang]
Quote from: Timmy Tucker on March 18, 2011, 06:01:56 PM
Well, I'm gonna go ahead and say it. Way. Over. Rated.
Don't get me wrong, I had a blast, but I was expecting more I guess. And it was apparently pirate day at the Gap Store. Thought I had missed a turn and ended up at Sturgis.
Didn't hit Cherahola, but followed 28 to 74 to 441 back to Gatlinburg. Now that was a balls-out riot till we hit the construction on 74 or 441 (don't remember which). Lots of traffic and loose sandy debris on the road. Topped off by some make the beast with two backsbucket in a Mazda Tribute driving 15-20 mph the whole god damn way from Cherokee to Gatlinburg. [bang] [bang]
I agree.
When we go down there I'll hit the dragon at daybreak, come back eat breakfast and then we go do a 200-300 mile day. Hit the dragon again at the very end of the day when we get back.
i hope the DB who passed me on the inside of a tight corner a couple years ago is reading this...
That's a shame TT, all this and then you get let down more or less.
That's the way it is w. a lot of things.
People make things out to be so great , we get hyped up and then it can never live up to our expectations.
That's life. at least you can say you rode the " Dragon . "
I don't know what people find so interesting about going from one sharp turn to another...slowly.
Please , ...give me a road where my Suspension and my riding skills at speed are challenged...not just how good I can turn slowly. ( 45mph is slow ) back and forth.
Dolph (http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn198/DoubleEagle_photo/PqgqmyA.gif)
Quote from: Timmy Tucker on March 18, 2011, 06:01:56 PM
Well, I'm gonna go ahead and say it. Way. Over. Rated.
Don't get me wrong, I had a blast, but I was expecting more I guess. And it was apparently pirate day at the Gap Store. Thought I had missed a turn and ended up at Sturgis.
Didn't hit Cherahola, but followed 28 to 74 to 441 back to Gatlinburg. Now that was a balls-out riot till we hit the construction on 74 or 441 (don't remember which). Lots of traffic and loose sandy debris on the road. Topped off by some make the beast with two backsbucket in a Mazda Tribute driving 15-20 mph the whole god damn way from Cherokee to Gatlinburg. [bang] [bang]
It's always pirate day there. You stop there for BBQ sammiches, bottled water, and emergency fuel, period. You went all the way there then skipped the Skyway? You missed literally the best part. High speed, sweeping turns, great road surface, scenic pulloffs, and I've never seen a cop on it other than if there's a crash. The Dragon is fun for what it is, and if you get aggressive on it it can be a lot of fun, but in terms of roads built for motorcycles.... Skyway or bust.
Quote from: DoubleEagle on March 18, 2011, 10:00:49 PM
I don't know what people find so interesting about going from one sharp turn to another...slowly.
Yeah, learning how to use those big brakes is a pain in the ass. ;) SQUID
Quote from: kopfjäger on March 18, 2011, 10:51:07 PM
Yeah, learning how to use those big brakes is a pain in the ass. ;) SQUID
I find it more stimulating using the throttle rather than the brakes ! [thumbsup]
Dolph [moto]
Quote from: DoubleEagle on March 19, 2011, 12:19:34 AM
I find it more stimulating using the throttle rather than the brakes ! [thumbsup]
Dolph [moto]
the problem is that your bikes are too fast, getting a slow bike like mine to hustle through there is more fun
I had to park it the one day down there when I was actually drifting the bike through some of the corners on 28.
A 620 should not be able to do that.
Riding like that was well past what I should be doing and if I rode any more that day I would've eventually pushed too far.
Let's try to wrangle this one back in to the topic.
But it's a great reminder that advice and opinions here are worth what you paid for them. ;D
My passes depend on the road, but I do try to think of what my pass would be like to a rider who is new and still has to process things like thinking how to properly blip a downshift and where to look, so their attention is pretty tapped just by being out there, let alone worrying about people behind him/her.
And as rare as I ever have road rage, if someone pulled a doubleeagle blowby within reaching distance of a new rider with whom i'm riding, my first reaction would be to catch them and have a.... Discussion.
It's pretty easy to leave some room when passing a bike. You know where is realy good practice for judging distance and speed and bike control? The track. My street passes got safer, shorter in time, further away. Blah blah blah rant blather.
Quote from: DoubleEagle on March 18, 2011, 10:00:49 PM
That's a shame TT, all this and then you get let down more or less.
It wasn't really a let down, it just didn't meet up to the hype, if that makes sense. Mostly surprised that people travel from all over the country to ride it. I travelled roads like that all the time when I lived in VA and there are several roads just as fun that are within an hour of my house. I'm sure I'd appreciate it more if I had the skills to be aggressive on a technical road like that.
And my objectivity may be slightly hampered by the fact that I did almost 11 hours on a stock seat. :'(
Quote from: Statler on March 19, 2011, 05:58:02 AM
...You know where is realy good practice for judging distance and speed and bike control? The track. My street passes got safer, shorter in time, further away. Blah blah blah rant blather.
I want to do a track day so bad I can't stand it, just to be able to work on my skills in a safe environment. Like I said before, I'm sloooooooooooooow. (the pics from yesterday show it too [laugh] ) But I'm really not willing to push myself much harder on the street at this point.
Quote from: Timmy Tucker on March 19, 2011, 06:19:40 AM
I want to do a track day so bad I can't stand it, just to be able to work on my skills in a safe environment. Like I said before, I'm sloooooooooooooow. (the pics from yesterday show it too [laugh] ) But I'm really not willing to push myself much harder on the street at this point.
Everyone is slow when they 1st start out ..or they end up in the ditch like I did .
The best way to learn and get faster is to go to the track ...so I keep hearing and reading.
I have done it a little different and paid a heavy price ..but I think I finally got there.
I wouldn't suggest my way.
I taught myself to be a scratch golfer ( scratch meaning no handicap, meaning I averaged par on my rounds ). Back in the late '70s.
Everybody said I needed to take a lot of lessons from the Professional teachers to be able to become a scratch player.
But because of my stubborness , I did it by practicing, reading and playing almost 7 days a week for several years.
Dedication and obsession can take you a long way.
You have to WANT it and have the OBSESSION to be a good rider.
You need to study what the great riders know and learn from them and put it in to practice.
Just going out and riding aimlessly won't make you a good rider or a faster rider.
I did it my way. You should do a track day ..because you are not ME .
I'm one of the more unusual people you would ever meet ..and I don't necessaryily mean that in a good way.
Dolph :)
Just like with women, the fantasy is always better than the reality, and although I've never been there, I have not doubt the
"Dragon" is the same thing. Personally, I wouldn't go there. Way too much yahoo factor going on.
But as far as passing goes, if I'm coming up on someone, I give them a load of room, I don't want them running into me, or startling them into crashing or something. And if I don't know someone, I don't bump into them either (some guys I ride with will come up and rub on you, leaving tire tracks on your pipe and what not, or stepping on your shifter or brake, it used to bug me, sort of freak me out, but now I do it back, I think it makes you ride better).
Hold your line, and don't try to race people. And don't worry about what they are doing behind you.
Quote from: Preisker on March 20, 2011, 09:53:21 PM
Just like with women, the fantasy is always better than the reality, and although I've never been there, I have not doubt the
"Dragon" is the same thing. Personally, I wouldn't go there. Way too much yahoo factor going on.
But as far as passing goes, if I'm coming up on someone, I give them a load of room, I don't want them running into me, or startling them into crashing or something. And if I don't know someone, I don't bump into them either (some guys I ride with will come up and rub on you, leaving tire tracks on your pipe and what not, or stepping on your shifter or brake, it used to bug me, sort of freak me out, but now I do it back, I think it makes you ride better).
Hold your line, and don't try to race people. And don't worry about what they are doing behind you.
I can't condone any of the riding antics you have mentioned above.
I never mess w. another bike or rider ....I make sure the rider in front of me knows I'm behind them..and when it's safe I make a quick pass out wide of them .
If the " Dragon " was 20 miles away I'm sure I would have to ride it at least once to see what it was like.
Although my preference would be and is what I ride , low traffic, technical roads w. a few short straights .
The " Dragon " sounds like a ride at an Amusement Park.
Get in line and follow the leader.
Often when I ride during the week , I can go over 100 miles and not come upon another motorcycle.
Kind a feels like my own private set of roads.
Dolph [moto]
You guys are doing the Gap all wrong.
To anyone who doesn't think the Dragon is all that it is cracked up to be, try this:
Ride it on a weekday morning. Or a weekday (not Friday) evening. Even in the summer, you can find it virtually deserted. Stay away from it on the weekends, except for the spectacle...which is its own kind of cool - just don't have high hopes of riding fast. Stop complaining about the traffic, and go during the week!!
Try to run the Dragon as quickly as you possibly can...without ever exceeding 35 MPH. Aside from a trackday, NOTHING else will improve your cornering ability faster. If you can learn how to take a 15 MPH switchback at 30, that skill will transfer to every corner you ever take on a motorcycle. Actually, now that I think about it, (I'm sure some of you will blast me for saying this)...it will help your skills even better than a trackday. If you run the Dragon 6 times, that's 1800 sharp corners - you won't get that much on a single trackday. So...in summary...save your heavy throttle hand for the Cherohala and enjoy the Dragon for what it is!
Given that the Cherohala and Dragon are so close to each other - two very different but very fun styles of riding...yes, yes, yes, the Deals Gap area IS everything it is cracked up to be!
Mike B
^^ this guy gets it.
Quote from: DoubleEagle on March 19, 2011, 05:13:24 PM
I taught myself to be a scratch golfer ( scratch meaning no handicap, meaning I averaged par on my rounds ). Back in the late '70s.
Everybody said I needed to take a lot of lessons from the Professional teachers to be able to become a scratch player.
But because of my stubborness , I did it by practicing, reading and playing almost 7 days a week for several years.
Dedication and obsession can take you a long way.
You have to WANT it and have the OBSESSION to be a good rider.
You need to study what the great riders know and learn from them and put it in to practice.
Just going out and riding aimlessly won't make you a good rider or a faster rider.
i dunno if this analogy works for me... getting to be a 0 handicap golfer is a pretty impressive feat but unless you happened to dig a hole in a forest/someone's backyard, i'm pretty sure you needed a well designed, strictly for the sport, and safe area in order to get to that point. aka, a course or a range. and naturally you had clubs too.
clubs = bike. high end, low end it's all the same. some clubs are cheap as hell, but work for you, some are ridiculous $$ but you cant just get the hang of them. pretty solid analogy for how bikes work too i think.
riding on the street = learning to putt/chip in your backyard. it's not perfect, you'll probably get the hang of it enough to play pretty well, but you're generally not going to using your driver all too often (depending on the size of your backyard of course), or placed into situations that were specifically designed to test your skills (bunkers). no real restrictions or safety nets placed in order to assure safety for bystanders (or yourself, but that's only during lightning i guess...)
course = track. specifically designed for the sport. allows you to use the full range of your clubs/bike. places you in situation specifically designed to test your abilities. a good set of rules designed for safety of other guests (aka, yell fore) and no random people running out into the middle of the green and stomping around. generally, the best place to learn how to play as you will learn how to handle a very different set of skills every time you swing. also... pretty addicting and prob the best way to play the sport.
and also... competition. being given a measure of what is good or not is something that drives everyone... and that's what makes saying you're a 0 handicap impressive. but what if instead of saying 0 handicap when someone asked how well you golf... you just said... nah, i dont know, i dont play on courses. i just hit the balls in my backyard and i know i'm really good.
i know this wont change your mind at all when it comes to the idea of going to a track, but it was the basic analogy itself that, to me, seemed to support the idea of going to a track rather than a reason that you didnt need to go at all.
Quote from: thought on March 22, 2011, 07:07:58 AM
i dunno if this analogy works for me... getting to be a 0 handicap golfer is a pretty impressive feat but unless you happened to dig a hole in a forest/someone's backyard, i'm pretty sure you needed a well designed, strictly for the sport, and safe area in order to get to that point. aka, a course or a range. and naturally you had clubs too.
clubs = bike. high end, low end it's all the same. some clubs are cheap as hell, but work for you, some are ridiculous $$ but you cant just get the hang of them. pretty solid analogy for how bikes work too i think.
riding on the street = learning to putt/chip in your backyard. it's not perfect, you'll probably get the hang of it enough to play pretty well, but you're generally not going to using your driver all too often (depending on the size of your backyard of course), or placed into situations that were specifically designed to test your skills (bunkers). no real restrictions or safety nets placed in order to assure safety for bystanders (or yourself, but that's only during lightning i guess...)
and also... competition. being given a measure of what is good or not is something that drives everyone... and that's what makes saying you're a 0 handicap impressive. but what if instead of saying 0 handicap when someone asked how well you golf... you just said... nah, i dont know, i dont play on courses. i just hit the balls in my backyard and i know i'm really good.
i know this wont change your mind at all when it comes to the idea of going to a track, but it was the basic analogy itself that, to me, seemed to support the idea of going to a track rather than a reason that you didnt need to go at all.
I practically lived on the Golf Course.
I left work every day by 3 o'clock and during daylight savings got in 18 holes , or played 9 holes and from 1979 until the late '90s I belonged to a Private Club which was practically deserted since most of the members were older , retired and played early.
I often played 3-4 balls on each hole so that I would have a mulitude of different shots to practice and putts of different lengths.
I also often hit a bag of balls at the range before I went out on the course, if I was working on something specific in my swing. Trying to hit ther ball higher or lower , left to right or right to left, slight fade or a full on draw.
I recorded and watched every PGA Tournament I could and went to Miurfield Village Golf Club each year and watched the Pros in person at the Memorial Tournament held at Jack Nicklaus' Golf Course at Miurfield Village in Dublin, Ohio.
Often at the end of my rounds , I would spend at least 45 minutes in the bunkers around the last hole .
On the weekends and Thursday and Fridays I would play in what were called " skins games " where a bunch of us would draw for a partner and then play our best score on each hole against every other partner team.
Also I occassionally got to play w. one of the local Club Professionals on Mondays in their Pro -Am events at various Courses in the greater Columbus , Ohio area.
Your analogy of me becoming a " scratch golfer " by playing around in my back yard was not accurate.
The fact that I could go out and shoot 4 under par 68 on a par 72 Golf Course meant to me that I had the skill to play golf at a high level. The Course is the test just as the Road is the test of how good a rider a person is.
If I can go out and run a 30 mile stretch of road at a very spirited pace is proof to me that I have the skills to ride good.
I don't need to be riding against another rider to prove my skills.
However, I am always ready for a race when I'm out on the road ! Just as other Golfers relish a good one on one competition w. another Golfer of similar skills.
Dolph [moto]
Quote from: DoubleEagle on March 22, 2011, 08:25:22 PM
I practically lived on the Golf Course.
I left work every day by 3 o'clock and during daylight savings got in 18 holes , or played 9 holes and from 1979 until the late '90s I belonged to a Private Club which was practically deserted since most of the members were older , retired and played early.
I often played 3-4 balls on each hole so that I would have a mulitude of different shots to practice and putts of different lengths.
I also often hit a bag of balls at the range before I went out on the course, if I was working on something specific in my swing. Trying to hit ther ball higher or lower , left to right or right to left, slight fade or a full on draw.
I recorded and watched every PGA Tournament I could and went to Miurfield Village Golf Club each year and watched the Pros in person at the Memorial Tournament held at Jack Nicklaus' Golf Course at Miurfield Village in Dublin, Ohio.
Often at the end of my rounds , I would spend at least 45 minutes in the bunkers around the last hole .
On the weekends and Thursday and Fridays I would play in what were called " skins games " where a bunch of us would draw for a partner and then play our best score on each hole against every other partner team.
Also I occassionally got to play w. one of the local Club Professionals on Mondays in their Pro -Am events at various Courses in the greater Columbus , Ohio area.
Your analogy of me becoming a " scratch golfer " by playing around in my back yard was not accurate.
The fact that I could go out and shoot 4 under par 68 on a par 72 Golf Course meant to me that I had the skill to play golf at a high level. The Course is the test just as the Road is the test of how good a rider a person is.
If I can go out and run a 30 mile stretch of road at a very spirited pace is proof to me that I have the skills to ride good.
I don't need to be riding against another rider to prove my skills.
However, I am always ready for a race when I'm out on the road ! Just as other Golfers relish a good one on one competition w. another Golfer of similar skills.
Dolph [moto]
I think what
thought was trying to say was that you perfected your golfing skills on a "golf course" and that you couldn't have gained the same results from just practicing in your back yard. Therefor, one would need to practice riding a bike on a dedicate "course" like a track in order to truly perfect their skills as a rider.
Quote from: duc750 on March 22, 2011, 08:37:47 PM
I think what thought was trying to say was that you perfected your golfing skills on a "golf course" and that you couldn't have gained the same results from just practicing in your back yard. Therefor, one would need to practice riding a bike on a dedicate "course" like a track in order to truly perfect their skills as a rider.
I misunderstood his premise.
Although , if I can go out and ride an 8 foot wide lane of Asphalt and stay in that 8 foot lane for 150 + miles and ride that same group of roads 50 times a year at generally 65 -85 to sometimes 125 mph , that to me is a " track "...just no body else on it usually but a couple of coal or logging trucks and during the weekdays a few cars and and a few other motorcycles.
I know every corner, where to slow down, where I can let it out depending on what I see ahead of me.
I pretty much have 150-175 miles broken down into 30 mile increments , and can ride them in all sorts of combonations.
Been riding the same group of roads for years
Being retired I have the luxury of riding on weekdays when there is very little traffic.
On the weekends I ride slower since it does fill up w. riders and car traffic.
Dolph [moto]
Dolf, where do you carry? side, underarm, lower back. Have always wondered how to carry on a bike.
Quote from: bdub on March 23, 2011, 06:52:08 AM
Dolf, where do you carry? side, underarm, lower back. Have always wondered how to carry on a bike.
no. this threads been jacked enough.
There's a gun stuff thread in NMC or do it by PM.
Sorry
Quote from: bdub on March 23, 2011, 06:52:08 AM
Dolf, where do you carry? side, underarm, lower back. Have always wondered how to carry on a bike.
PM sent
Dolph :)
we hit a lot of twisty routes. when i started, I was really slow and anytime any faster bikes approached me, I just wave them on and make way for them.
I make sure to pass on a straight and never on the corner. I dont even pass people I ride with on a corner. You never know if they gonna go wide or not. Just not worth it. Pass on the straight is my rule.
Besides, like Dolph said, most of the twisty roads around here, one hardly sees any other riders.
I find the gold wing riders (past experience) hard to pass because they just don't let you through when they are in a huge pack. I hate to get people to panic but at some point, we just start zig zag through them when etiquette does not work.
I dont know about Draggon tail but I sure know that I will ride like a pussy there. I hear lots of horror stories. I plan on going there this summer if the funds are there.
have fun !
Quote from: Outlaw1100 on March 22, 2011, 06:43:39 AM
To anyone who doesn't think the Dragon is all that it is cracked up to be, try this:
Ride it on a weekday morning. Or a weekday (not Friday) evening. Even in the summer, you can find it virtually deserted. Stay away from it on the weekends, except for the spectacle...which is its own kind of cool - just don't have high hopes of riding fast. Stop complaining about the traffic, and go during the week!!
Given that the Cherohala and Dragon are so close to each other - two very different but very fun styles of riding...yes, yes, yes, the Deals Gap area IS everything it is cracked up to be!
Mike B
Very well said, sir [clap]
With NC 28, the Cherohala, and the Dragon all next to each other, what more could you ask for? I personally don't blitz 129; the other 2 are better for that.
Quote from: Outlaw1100 on March 22, 2011, 06:43:39 AM
To anyone who doesn't think the Dragon is all that it is cracked up to be, try this:
<snip>
Mike B
Wait, I have how many vacation days to use before I leave?
Oh.
Oh dear.
This can not end well.
[evil]
Quote from: ab on March 23, 2011, 06:43:57 PM
Besides, like Dolph said, most of the twisty roads around here, one hardly sees any other riders.
Hi ab,
I don't think other riders believe us when we say that we can ride and ride a lot of twisty roads and hardly see any other riders .
Thus our propensity to ride... fast and hard , often as possible.
( ab works , so he can only ride the twisties on the weekends when he is more apt to encounter groups of Golgthangs' and H-Ds on the way to the good stuff )
Dolph [moto]
I believe you, Dolph. But, then, I rode Deal's Gap 25 years ago when you rarely saw another bike on it, too. Keep yer mouth shut about your area or it'll become squid central every weekend just like the Crossroads of Time.
As to etiquette. The only advice I'd give you is the same advice I give to any newb (not a derogatory term, but rather a descriptive one) I ride with. Ride your ride. Ride smoothly and hold your line. Apex late if you can't see through the turn, and have lots of fun.
If I want to pass, I'll pass. If you want to pass me, please feel free. I promise I won't hit you on the way by. Please don't hit me.
The rest is gravy. [coffee]
Cloner,
I understand what you are saying.
I appreciate your point of view as it pertains to my riding style and the need for such " wild " places like the Dragon was 25 years ago and my roads are now.
Although at my advanced age , I doubt I will be riding long enough to see the day when overcrowding is a problem in my " little piece of paradise ."
We should all ride are own ride as long as we don't interfere w. that of others.
Dolph [moto]