I got stopped today for making a right on red. I sat through two complete traffic light cycles and never got the green. I know that bikes don't always trip the road sensor so I went for it. The cop knew nothing about the road sensors but liked the rational and bought the story anyway. Got lucky I guess. Maybe I'll invest in one of those contraptions that triggers the sensor. Does anyone have any experience with these devices?
I thought right on red was legal unless posted otherwise...
mitt
Quote from: mitt on March 18, 2011, 04:07:53 PM
I thought right on red was legal unless posted otherwise...
mitt
depends on where, in New York City it's illegal unless it's posted that you can
Where you do you live?
And I'm not sure what's 'bizarre' about that interaction. Sounds like the officer cut you break b/c you had a legit reason. That's how it's *supposed* to work. IIRC, CA law allows you to go through a red light if you don't trigger the sensor and sit through a cycle or two (hmmm, can't seem to find the CVC on that one).
Shop I worked with decided to test all the trigger things at one point.
None of the trigger sensor work...at all.
buy yourself something nice instead.
get the emergency flashers that ambulances and police cars have that the things on top of traffic lights see and change your light to green and theirs to red
theyre called traffic preemption transmitter. and are highly illegal for non LEO use.
Get one.
I have this same problem with a lot of the lights in my city in ontario :/ Very annoying, one a few i have to pull over and wait for a car to pass me so I can follow him through after he triggers it.
The cops around here arent so understanding :(
You did the right thing.
I would think most police Officers would understand ( right [bang] ).
Could you see the [leo] before you made the turn ?
If so I would have motioned to them , pointed to the light , made a gesture like what's going on, and then made the turn.
That way you can always tell them when they stop you that you were trying to let them know that the light wouldn't change or was stuck.
In my State it's legal to turn right on red ...so let's say I want to go left.
I am the 1st in line and the light won't turn , so I turn right , go up the road a little bit and find a place to turn left and then left ,then go straight.
My $.02
Dolph [moto]
Cop talk. I wouldn't touch this one with a ten foot night stick. [leo]
cop talk. [bang] [laugh]
in before the threadlock in 3... 2.....1......
In response:
-For the most part we can make rights on red unless otherwise posted, and unfortunately it was clearly posted "No Turn on Red". I live on Long Island, about 40 miles east of NYC.
-The cop said he was a few hundred feet behind me when I turned. There wasn't a car on the road except for him coming up from behind. I did check my mirrors but didn't see him at the time. He had an unmarked.
I was completely cool with him and he knew I wasn't some piece of shit just trying to get over. With the exception of going over the speed limit by a few mph, I normally follow the rules of the road. Its not only for my safety but for the safety of others. I like my bike too much to wreck it. ;D
While riding my bicycle, I learned to trip the sensors in my old apartment complex by dragging my foot for a few inches *at crawling pace* (granted my riding shoes had metal cleats on the sole)
Lemme just say that I bought one of those green light trigger things. Damn thing won't even stick to my bike. The sticky gel shit just isn't sticky enough. And my bike may or may not be pretty make the beast with two backsing dirty.
There are two traffic light sensor systems that get used a lot.
One is an infrared camera mounted on the far light, aimed at the "stop zone" on your side of the intersection. As long as some part of your vehicle is hotter than the surrounding air, it'll trigger. This is also the type susceptible to the "preemptive" lights TeenRider mentioned. They work really well on these systems, but if the light is programmed to pick it up, it'll look pretty suspect. It tells the traffic light "brain" to give your side a green light while the other three sides have a red light. Raises some eyebrows. Also, as mentioned, they're highly illegal.
The other one is an inductive coil placed underneath the roadway. It's basically a big metal detector. And inductive coil is laid under the asphalt and connected to the stop light "brain." When it senses a big metal object (or anything that messes with its magnetic field) over top of itself, it triggers the countdown for a green light. The flaw is that they're not usually set to be sensitive enough to pick up a motorcycle. There are things you can do to increase your chances. I've had good luck putting my tires over the sensor cut as I approach the light. I don't know if it's the steel belts of the tires (which will magnetically interfere in spite of being encased in rubber) or if that just puts my iron crank shaft in the path of the flux lines.
Either way, sounds like you got a pretty cool cop.
This thread should be fine as long as the conversation is kept to a constructive discussion of the situation at hand, and does not digress into slandering the law enforcement community.
I have an old hard drive magnet stuck to my oil filter (lowest metal part of the bike) and I've never had a problem sitting through lights. No sticky goo, it's just that powerful that it sticks right on and stays. Has for a couple of thousand miles.
Quote from: Jarvicious on March 19, 2011, 07:20:18 AM
I have an old hard drive magnet stuck to my oil filter (lowest metal part of the bike) and I've never had a problem sitting through lights. No sticky goo, it's just that powerful that it sticks right on and stays. Has for a couple of thousand miles.
There was some discussion a while back about neodymium magnets achieving the same result.
Quote from: Jarvicious on March 19, 2011, 07:20:18 AM
I have an old hard drive magnet stuck to my oil filter (lowest metal part of the bike) and I've never had a problem sitting through lights. No sticky goo, it's just that powerful that it sticks right on and stays. Has for a couple of thousand miles.
Mmmm. A hard drive magnet? Not sure if I know what that looks like. Is it something found inside a typical PC hard drive? I've seen the inside of a hard drive but dont remember seeing any kind of powerful magnet inside. I have a few laying around somewhere so I'll pull one apart and check. If it works for you, its worth trying. Thanks!
The magnets inside HDDs are neodymium magnets. Strong little bastards.
I'm a technician by trade so I have all sorts of bum computer parts lying around. Had a random magnet in my room, found an article about the traffic light sensors, and just threw it on. I've also heard that killing your bike then restarting it can have the same effect as a magnet. The starter motor puts out a fair bit of a magnetic field.
Quote from: Spidey on March 18, 2011, 04:16:11 PM
IIRC, CA law allows you to go through a red light if you don't trigger the sensor and sit through a cycle or two (hmmm, can't seem to find the CVC on that one).
Negative. Red light is a red light. The recommendation I've received from LEO is to safely make your way to the right lane, make a right on red, then u-turn. If it's a T intersection or something, I'm not sure what you're supposed to do.
The neomydiums work pretty good. I have two of those on my filter and it's pretty rare a light doesn't flip for me now. Turning off and restarting your bike can yield good results from the starter's EM field for induction loop detectors.
I've also had pretty good luck notifying the city of the problem. We had one by work that trapped me on an offramp for about 5 minutes until a car came along. City fixed it within a couple days.
Quote from: Privateer on March 19, 2011, 03:55:32 PM
Negative. Red light is a red light.
Yah. I was pretty sure I ran across a CVC section that said otherwise, but after lookin' around for a bit, I can't find it. Seems the crack is finally taking its toll on my faculties.
NC adopted a law allowing motorcycles to run a red if they sit there through two cycles or over 5 minutes.
I'd prefer to try a magnet trick over hoping that I get either a understanding officer or judge. Knowing most of the officers in my local municipality, I'd be fine if I explained the reason they spotted me running a red.
JM
Quote from: Spidey on March 19, 2011, 04:33:39 PM
Yah. I was pretty sure I ran across a CVC section that said otherwise, but after lookin' around for a bit, I can't find it. Seems the crack is finally taking its toll on my faculties.
There is a section somewhere that talks about a 'malfunctioning' light, but I think that's when the light is completely dead. I came across is researching the same question and determined it didn't apply to a signal that wasn't sensing a vehicle.
Quote from: Spidey on March 19, 2011, 04:33:39 PM
Yah. I was pretty sure I ran across a CVC section that said otherwise, but after lookin' around for a bit, I can't find it. Seems the crack is finally taking its toll on my faculties.
Quote from: Privateer on March 19, 2011, 09:12:22 PM
There is a section somewhere that talks about a 'malfunctioning' light, but I think that's when the light is completely dead. I came across is researching the same question and determined it didn't apply to a signal that wasn't sensing a vehicle.
i found mention from a few years ago that california, instead of allowing non-triggering vehicles to proceed through a red light, enacted a law requiring the systems to detect motorcycles.
not sure what the plans are for retrofitting the existing systems.
Quote from: derby on March 19, 2011, 09:27:24 PM
i found mention from a few years ago that california, instead of allowing non-triggering vehicles to proceed through a red light, enacted a law requiring the systems to detect motorcycles.
not sure what the plans are for retrofitting the existing systems.
My understanding of how induction loop detectors work mean that laws only requires the city/whoever to adjust the detector's sensitivity. That's usually the problem if it won't change for a bike. What I've read from city engineers is that some loops are 'turned down' to avoid cross-talk between the different lanes. Apparently left turn pockets are prone this cross-talk and tend to be set less sensitive.
supposedly there are other systems that use visible light or IR cameras to detect vehicles in a name but I've never seen one.
Quote from: lethe on March 18, 2011, 04:15:02 PM
depends on where, in New York City it's illegal unless it's posted that you can
It's illegal in Ann Arbor and also in some parts of the Phoenix area when coming off the highway.
Quote from: the_Journeyman on March 19, 2011, 08:39:54 PM
NC adopted a law allowing motorcycles to run a red if they sit there through two cycles or over 5 minutes.
Ohio has that law, traffic permitting.
All the new/rehabbed lights in my area have a painted silhouette of a bicycle on the far right. Stopping on these has helped me.
The worst situation I've ever been in was after running an errand in a local gated community, where they'd put the gate on a fairly steep hill. Going in was fine - I'd been given the access code - but the exit gate (on a steep downhill) was triggered by an induction loop detector with no visible cuts on the pavement to show me where the sensors were. Even though I approached it slowly and stopped at a bunch of different spots where I thought the sensor might be buried, I never did trip it and eventually my fiddling wound up with my front wheel inches from the gate, pointed down a hill so steep I didn't really trust the kickstand, and where I couldn't push the bike back up, even a few inches. I wound up waiting there for about ten minutes, until a car finally wanted to exit the gate & pulled up behind me.
It's a weird situation, but one worth filing away in your head & coming up with a Plan B (In this case, probably make sure I stopped with enough space ahead to U-Turn under power) if you find yourself approaching a possibly insensitive sensor in a spot where you can't turn or back out.
I read up on these inductive coil triggers and then got the chance to speak to one of the guys who installed them. Same guys that are installing hundreds of red light cameras in my area. [thumbsdown] From our conversation, he indicated that you need "mass" to trigger the cycle. He also said that depending on how they are programmed, some will trigger if you drive the motorcycle directly over the loop.
I struggle with this on my commute home. The problem is that the light is set to ONLY go off when induced. Basically when I forget and go that way I need to turn onto a 55 mph highway, across two lanes of traffic going the wrong way. Major PITA.
I was stuck at a red light once, trying to go straight ahead, not turning right. A Nevada Highway Patrol went past on the cross road, saw me, turned around, pulled alongside, rolled down his window and said he'd trip the light for me with his patrol car.