just wondering as i've read a MILLION threads all over the place that mag wheels are notorious for buckling under the city pothole pressure and are more appropriate for track applications. any experience/thoughts on this? asking b/c I may be making the swap from stock S4R wheels to PVM mags. but, don't know if i'm asking for trouble as i kind ride around LA like an *ssh*le and tend to hit things in the road from time to time.
They are more prone to damage from things like potholes.
The difference in the ride is amazing though and with a lot of city riding, esp with LA traffic, you won't get to experience that as much as you would like.
I wouldn't say don't get a mod, but I think you're thinking along the right lines. You'd have to avoid potholes religiously.
Quote from: ducatiz on March 25, 2011, 09:05:33 PM
They are more prone to damage from things like potholes.
The difference in the ride is amazing though and with a lot of city riding, esp with LA traffic, you won't get to experience that as much as you would like.
I wouldn't say don't get a mod, but I think you're thinking along the right lines. You'd have to avoid potholes religiously.
don't forget about all our canyons and countryside now [moto] but, realistically, the bulk of my riding is splitting lanes in traffic and wheelies through beverly hills just to piss off the rich folk
yeah, you'll really be able to do that with mags but they are a bit more fragile than the alu alloy wheels... and a LOT more expensive..
Magnesium wheels are pretty expensive. Why not splurge on some BST carbon instead? They're fatigue-free and very strong indeed. They really are the strongest of the lightest. I'd amputate a toe for a set. I don't understand why anyone would consider mag wheels when there is the lighter stronger fatigue-free carbon BST option. Not only are they suitable but they are preferable for the street. Your bike will be absolutely transformed.
Then there are the OZ forged wheels which I believe you had a set of for DSS Monsters. Get a set of those as I understand they are a very well-made wheel and a good compromise between the lightness of mag and strength of aluminum. I think they are the lightest of the forged aluminums.
I definitely would not do mags though, not for street use. The new Marchi forged mags are supposed to be really tough and suitable for the street due to a proprietary Marchesini forging process. However they are super expensive and as long as I was spending that kind of money I'd spend a teeny weeny bit more and get BSTs. I'd lick a pile of white poop for a set of those.
Quote from: bergdoerfer on March 26, 2011, 04:15:35 PM
Magnesium wheels are pretty expensive. Why not splurge on some BST carbon instead? They're fatigue-free and very strong indeed. They really are the strongest of the lightest. I'd amputate a toe for a set.
are you a nihilist??
Ya gotta believe in something
'vee make the beast with two backss you up vee takes de money' [laugh]
Quote from: bergdoerfer on March 26, 2011, 04:15:35 PM
Magnesium wheels are pretty expensive. Why not splurge on some BST carbon instead? They're fatigue-free and very strong indeed. They really are the strongest of the lightest. I'd amputate a toe for a set. I don't understand why anyone would consider mag wheels when there is the lighter stronger fatigue-free carbon BST option. Not only are they suitable but they are preferable for the street. Your bike will be absolutely transformed.
Then there are the OZ forged wheels which I believe you had a set of for DSS Monsters. Get a set of those as I understand they are a very well-made wheel and a good compromise between the lightness of mag and strength of aluminum. I think they are the lightest of the forged aluminums.
I definitely would not do mags though, not for street use. The new Marchi forged mags are supposed to be really tough and suitable for the street due to a proprietary Marchesini forging process. However they are super expensive and as long as I was spending that kind of money I'd spend a teeny weeny bit more and get BSTs. I'd lick a pile of white poop for a set of those.
hahahahahaha ^^^ that's funny. actually i found a set for sale for a good price used but the more i hear about "aged" magnesium the less i like it. i was also told that they were not legal for street use in many countries as a direct result of the compromised integrity of the material in a "real world" application, in other words they were found to be very dangerous. if i'm shelling out bling [bacon] i don't want to crack a wheel or my noggin.
I'd go Forged Aluminum or just OEM for the street.. The track is a whole different story.
And YES L.A roads can be nasty, so you need to look out for potholes... and garbage, miscellaneous road debris, gangsters, bums, senior citizen drivers, texters, broads putting on make up (to include men in certain parts of L.A- read WeHo and LBC)... or talking on the phone... and the multi-task challenged, teenagers, unlicensed drivers, drivers who don't like two wheelers, drunks, chronic pot smokers, tourists, look-e-loo's near traffic accidents... and the dreaded Toyota Prius.
Quote from: lawbreaker on March 26, 2011, 06:55:09 PM
I'd go Forged Aluminum or just OEM for the street.. The track is a whole different story.
And YES L.A roads can be nasty, so you need to look out for potholes... and garbage, miscellaneous road debris, gangsters, bums, senior citizen drivers, texters, broads putting on make up (to include men in certain parts of L.A- read WeHo and LBC)... or talking on the phone... and the multi-task challenged, teenagers, unlicensed drivers, drivers who don't like two wheelers, drunks, chronic pot smokers, tourists, look-e-loo's near traffic accidents... and the dreaded Toyota Prius.
i guess you've been around here once or twice ;)
A few years back when BSTs ran in the $6K range, $2-3K for Mag wheels made sense. I have a set, they're awesome
But with the price of BSTs now in the $4K range, I don't much see the point of buying anything else. They are awesomer.
My cast magnesium Marchesinis are still round and crack-free after 34k miles and almost 7 years.
I try to not hit potholes, but that's just a basic thing, not just due to the wheels.
I am obliged to point out that the OEM aluminum wheels are nothing special in terms of pothole resistance, they're pretty soft.
I suspect they could be repaired successfully more often than mag wheels.
well i heard mixed reviews about these particular wheels (PVM) and if i'm spending my (not so) hard earned cash money i want something a little more reputable. they were a great deal at $900 but at least 10 years old or so and i passed on em.
I always thought CA didn't have many potholes because there were no freeze/thaw cycles to tear up the roads. Winter is the main reason for potholes around here. Giant sharp-edged deep-walled road-chasms that sneak up on you. You have to memorize their locations, after you hit them of course. BAM WTF now I need new tie rods [bang]
Quote from: bergdoerfer on March 27, 2011, 11:29:02 AM
I always thought CA didn't have many potholes because there were no freeze/thaw cycles to tear up the roads. Winter is the main reason for potholes around here. Giant sharp-edged deep-walled road-chasms that sneak up on you. You have to memorize their locations, after you hit them of course. BAM WTF now I need new tie rods [bang]
no, cali builds roads out of gingerbread and frosting. so every time it f@#kin rains 95% of the road washes away with it. then it makes for some fun riding.
... It wouldn't be Cali-Fun if it werent for the road chasms and other obstacles....
I do the russian roulette thru HWD twice daily.... I think I can survive almost anything now [thumbsup]
Quote from: ducatiz on March 26, 2011, 04:18:46 PM
are you a nihilist??
You want a toe? I can get you a toe, believe me. There are ways, Dude. You don't wanna know about it, believe me.
^^without a doubt the most bizarre avatar I've yet seen and there are some strange ones around here [clap]
Watch today's WSBK race 1 Maxime Bergers Crash. Living proof of why not to use mag wheels
SPOILER ALERT : DONT CLICK IF YOU ARE PLANNING TO WATCH THE RACE!!!!!!
Just an FYI. It was determined later in the race that the mag wheel exploded due to a stress fracture. The commentators were unaware of this during the incident.
2011 WSBK Donington - Race 1 - Maxime Berger Crash (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1j32N2eWPs#normal)
yikes. but it looked like the swingarm nut came loose . . .
Quote from: uglyducky on March 27, 2011, 10:26:40 PM
yikes. but it looked like the swingarm nut came loose . . .
"The actual result was the rear hub shearing from the spokes and rather than the wheel failure taking place at a high-speed, like the catastrophic crash that left Robert Dunlop with severe injuries at the 1994 Isle of Man TT, Berger was lucky to escape uninjured at a slow corner."
Quote from: uglyducky on March 27, 2011, 10:26:40 PM
yikes. but it looked like the swingarm nut came loose . . .
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff259/s4rs888/wheelfailure.jpg)
Quote from: EEL on March 27, 2011, 08:30:19 PM
Just an FYI. It was determined later in the race that the mag wheel exploded due to a stress fracture. The commentators were unaware of this during the incident.
Do you have a link for this? I'm curious, and can't find anything confirming it was a mag. wheel.
http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/racing/maxime-berger-supersoni-ducati-lost-wheel-donington-park-wsbk/ (http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/racing/maxime-berger-supersoni-ducati-lost-wheel-donington-park-wsbk/)
If you watch the whole race, the eurosport commentators mention later than it was a mag wheel.
Quote from: Triple J on March 28, 2011, 08:29:08 AM
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff259/s4rs888/wheelfailure.jpg)
nothing like running on the rims...
lucky bastard, glad no one was hurt..
The scuttlebutt is that wheel was on it's 3rd or 4th season.
Not sure which is more shocking: The failure or the fact that a team was running the same wheels for 3 or 4 seasons :o
Quote from: Drunken Monkey on March 28, 2011, 03:22:27 PM
The scuttlebutt is that wheel was on it's 3rd or 4th season.
Not sure which is more shocking: The failure or the fact that a team was running the same wheels for 3 or 4 seasons :o
i would have to pregnant dog slap the person/people responsible for that oversight . ..
Quote from: uglyducky on March 28, 2011, 05:34:11 PM
i would have to pregnant dog slap the person/people responsible for that oversight . ..
yep; want adds; ducati team looking for equipment manager must have common sence when it comes to racing parts and fatigue. [bacon]
"The wheel that failed had only been used in a few races," team manager Daniele Soncini said.
http://www.gpone.com/index.php/en/news/35-in-evidenza/3265-cerchio-rotto-berger-come-spencer.html (http://www.gpone.com/index.php/en/news/35-in-evidenza/3265-cerchio-rotto-berger-come-spencer.html)
Sounds like Oz wheels has some explaining to do.
OZ has just received about $3M worth of the worst advertising one can imagine. :P
It did fail adjacent to the caliper, perhaps the spokes were dragging on the caliper.
But that would mean some other problem had occurred, bad wheel bearing or such....
It almost doesn't matter what OZ says now.
I really can't imagine running mag rims in a race environment for 4 years. Even at a club level, you've gotta start thinking about replacing them at that point. OTOH, only a few races?
OK - were those mag OZs or forged AL OZs? Because I thought they only made aluminum wheels.
Even so, really bad publicity for them. According to marketing literature they are supposed to be very highly engineered and tested. There has to be some explanation for what happened other than just 'OZ wheels are fatigue-prone and weak'.
Also, I remember the OZ wheels as being made by a different company, and OZ bought that company. Motowheels could tell you more about that.
On the bright side look for cheap secondhand sets of OZ wheels for sale on the Bay. Not that one would want to risk it...
Another argument for BST FTW
Quote from: bergdoerfer on March 29, 2011, 10:20:01 AM
OK - were those mag OZs or forged AL OZs? Because I thought they only made aluminum wheels.
Magnesium.
Magnesium OZ = 6 spoke.
Aluminum OZ = 5 spoke.
:( :( :( :( :(
(http://www.supersonicracingteam.com/upload/fotogallery/big/149-cerchio.jpg)
(http://www.supersonicracingteam.com/upload/fotogallery/big/149-_imo8582.jpg)
(http://forums.13x.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=90375&d=1301265180)
Quote from: Triple J on March 29, 2011, 01:33:39 PM
Magnesium.
Magnesium OZ = 6 spoke.
Aluminum OZ = 5 spoke.
well maybe they need to go to 7 or 8 spoke [laugh]
Folks that's what you can expect out of a Ducati superbike. Just TOO MUCH POWER.
what is impressive is the power of the bike as well as the traction the wheel was able to achieve.
Hooray for SSA that the wheel bounced clear of the bike.
I have a completely inexpert opinion, but this being the internet I will now share it with everyone as if it were gospel:
Seems strange the spokes broke in the same place on every one and all at the same time. Even with something as brittle as mag I'd expect a slower failure (maybe one spoke going first) with lots of vibration and warning to the rider before the rest gave out.
Therefore this was caused by something hitting the spokes.
I would expect OZ's PR arm to start the push for damage from outside not an internal failure. So I am sure OZ will be the first to announce the cause if that's the case.
If it's an internal failure, then I expect the team to push the findings.
Quote from: Drunken Monkey link=topic=47528.msg867156#msg86715
Quote from: Drunken Monkey on March 29, 2011, 07:41:32 PM
I have a completely inexpert opinion, but this being the internet I will now share it with everyone as if it were gospel:
Every single forum posting should be preceded by this. [laugh]
/looks over at marchesini mags i installed on my bike last week
<shrug>
not to be a voice of reason, esp. on the internet, but none of us are racing this equipment such as it is designed to be used and was in the case of the wheel breaking. the truth of the matter is no product is 100% fail proof in the extreeme conditions of racing. For all of us desktop racers on the internet know this wheel could have had something bouncing against it in a race semitruck for the last 2 months or it was a prototype wheel. If I had the money and NEED would i buy this product; hell yeah. 2 cents cha-ching [bacon]
I picked up some forged Mag Marchesini wheels yesterday for the M1100 build I am working on. I was able to compare them side by side with a forged aluminum and stock and was immediately compelled to buy them. After speaking with a rep from Marchesini, I am confident in the durability and I can't wait to experience them on the road.
One question I had for them was: Why don't they run carbon wheels in any racing series? Apparently, they are too rigid. I don't think any of us mortals would find the rigidity of a carbon wheel inhibiting to our riding, but I thought it was interesting to know.
i'm guessing that, much like a too strong/brittle steel for swords vs a softer flexible steel, the cf rims wont flex enough for high speed bumps and would crack faster. so the metal/mag wheels still have enough minor flex to accommodate the rigors of higher speeds?
alot of race clubs do not allow carbon wheels. I believe the AMA doesn't either, but I could be wrong [bacon]
A CF part can have whatever flexibility is necessary, just depends on the layup of fibers.
IIRC, I saw a recent picture of a Moto2 bike with BST's.
Quote from: Speeddog on March 31, 2011, 02:11:27 PM
A CF part can have whatever flexibility is necessary, just depends on the layup of fibers.
This.
The beauty of creating things with carbon is that the developing engineer can manufacture whatever characteristics they wish, and change these characteristics simply by altering the lay/weave of the fiber sheets.
I dont think most mag wheels are DOT rated for streed. I know BST's are
To get a DOT rating you need do a drop test with 400-something points as a point load on the wheel
Found a video
TUV/DOT Testing of BST Carbon Fiber Wheels (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M02xAeIJ7Bg#normal)
All things said, I think this is more strict than anything you'd see on a track.