Ducati Monster Forum

Moto Board => General Monster Forum => Topic started by: Slide Panda on March 29, 2011, 11:33:40 AM



Title: Monster 848R Concept
Post by: Slide Panda on March 29, 2011, 11:33:40 AM
- Right off, this isn't a Ducati offical anything. It's a photochop by a fellow named Isaac Chavira. People have been wondering if a water-cooled Monster will return to the new line, and this is his take... and I like it.

Details:
848 Plant with DP slipper clutch
Full Termis + ECU
1198 Front end and upped rear suspension
Plus some other lighter gear.

The article
http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/bikes/ducati-monster-848r-concept/ (http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/bikes/ducati-monster-848r-concept/)

(http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Ducati-Monster-848R-Corse-crop-635x403.jpg)


Title: Re: Monster 848R Concept
Post by: duccarlos on March 29, 2011, 11:38:37 AM
People that ask about a water cooled Monster live in their own world. Why would Ducati make a bike that would compete with the Street Fighter?


Title: Re: Monster 848R Concept
Post by: Raux on March 29, 2011, 11:44:27 AM
because a watercooled monster would sell better than the SF


Title: Re: Monster 848R Concept
Post by: duccarlos on March 29, 2011, 11:46:15 AM
They still would never make it. They would need to discontinue the SF and then sell the Monster for less. Do you honestly think they would do that?


Title: Re: Monster 848R Concept
Post by: toudg on March 29, 2011, 12:01:50 PM
Ask anyone 3 years ago about Ducati making a cruizer (Diavel) ... bottomline, we never know.

SF is too high for me and I hate the driving position (and a lot of other details).  I would buy a water-cooled monster tomorrow morning.


Title: Re: Monster 848R Concept
Post by: Punx Clever on March 29, 2011, 12:13:29 PM
Even if it did happen... something tells me an 848 based monster would have a wet clutch, not a dry one.

As much as I like the S4R, and the idea of more power than the 2v engines can put out in a monster... I think it takes away from the nakednes of it.


Title: Re: Monster 848R Concept
Post by: Raux on March 29, 2011, 12:17:12 PM
all the monsters have a wet clutch now already.
the MTS is wet, the Diavel is wet...

the only dry clutch left is on the SF and 1198




Title: Re: Monster 848R Concept
Post by: duccarlos on March 29, 2011, 12:17:45 PM
The whole point of the SF was to have a water cooled naked bike. The whole point of thr Diavel is to have a cruiser. The SF already covers the need. It would be truly idiotic for Ducati to build this bike. If anything, they would build an 848 SF, not a Monster  [roll]


Title: Re: Monster 848R Concept
Post by: Raux on March 29, 2011, 12:21:54 PM
well they could take the SF up to the 1198 and bump the price which I'm sure they would do even if they don't get an 848 naked.

then they could slot the Monster Evo S with the 848 motor inbetween that and the base Evo



Title: Re: Monster 848R Concept
Post by: Triple J on March 29, 2011, 12:28:59 PM
I don't see them putting the 848 motor in anything besides the 848. If they were going to then they already would have.

Two Monsters and a SF are enough naked bikes in their line-up, especially when you consider the 2 Hyper models. The only way I think we'll see a water-cooled Monster is if they kill the SF. An 848 SF and the 1100 Monster would be too close in price point.


Title: Re: Monster 848R Concept
Post by: Punx Clever on March 29, 2011, 12:29:48 PM
all the monsters have a wet clutch now already.
the MTS is wet, the Diavel is wet...

the only dry clutch left is on the SF and 1198

I know.  But if you look at the rendering above... dry clutch.


Title: Re: Monster 848R Concept
Post by: MotoCreations on March 29, 2011, 12:39:05 PM

1) Minoli was talking about the possibility of a Diavel style of Ducati power cruiser about March 2005 --  ;D

2) 848 Monster?  Not gonna happen for one primary reason -- The existing frame / airbox / rear seat subframe casting won't physically fit with the Testastretta engine.  I've already tried it because I really loved the S4RT Monster with the Testastretta engine.  (the older 4-valve setup will fit with some minor changes and a few people have built already in the US/Europe)

If anyone ever builds one -- please post!


Title: Re: Monster 848R Concept
Post by: duccarlos on March 29, 2011, 12:42:22 PM
I know some of you guys still believe in Santa and the tooth fairy, but there is no way you will see a water cooled Monster while the SF is still being manufactured.


Title: Re: Monster 848R Concept
Post by: muskrat on March 29, 2011, 01:13:05 PM
I know some of you guys still believe in Santa and the tooth fairy, but there is no way you will see a water cooled Monster while the SF is still being manufactured.
sounds like there's a hefty bet coming......... [evil]

I would much prefer a liquid Monster over the SF.


Title: Re: Monster 848R Concept
Post by: lazylightnin717 on March 29, 2011, 01:27:44 PM
I think that because the Monster is their best selling moto, they will do anything to keep it that way. Maybe.... just maybe if enough people ask they might make it.

I would love to see an 848 SF... I know I'm not the only one


Title: Re: Monster 848R Concept
Post by: kopfjäger on March 29, 2011, 01:35:18 PM
I know some of you guys still believe in Santa and the tooth fairy, but there is no way you will see a water cooled Monster while the SF is still being manufactured.

(http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa91/chiflado/santa-claus.jpg)


Title: Re: Monster 848R Concept
Post by: bikepilot on March 29, 2011, 02:17:52 PM
I'd love a duc version of a SMT with the 848 motor - sort of an 848 powered hyper with a big tank or 848 powered MTS with most of the bodywork lopped off.  For that matter I wouldnt' complain about a 1200cc 4v version of the same  [laugh]

I think the monster is the best looking bike around and prefer it as an air-cooled machine.  Somehow it looks just right without rads and with finned cylinders.  I wouldn't kick an S4* out of the garage though  [cheeky]


Title: Re: Monster 848R Concept
Post by: Duck-Stew on March 29, 2011, 02:34:52 PM
If I wanted an 848 Monster, I'd pull the fairings off my 848 & re-locate all the electronics to the tail-section.

Put on a single round headlight (WITHOUT the 'Dental Light' bar in the middle)....  And then ride the crap out of it.

I love my 848...  [evil]


Title: Re: Monster 848R Concept
Post by: live2ride on March 29, 2011, 04:42:23 PM
If I wanted an 848 Monster, I'd pull the fairings off my 848 & re-locate all the electronics to the tail-section.

Put on a single round headlight (WITHOUT the 'Dental Light' bar in the middle)....  And then ride the crap out of it.

I love my 848...  [evil]

well put.  i want an 848. 

i enjoy the simplicity of the air cooled monsters.  if i need more power, well thats what the streetfighter is for.


Title: Re: Monster 848R Concept
Post by: 671M900 on March 29, 2011, 05:04:02 PM
Upon introduction of the Streefighter, Ducati has specifically said that the streetfighter will be taking over the watercooled naked bike segment of their lineup. I highly doubt they will introduce a watercooled monster, as there would be no need for the SF. The SF has to go before a watercooled Monster will happen.

Quote
SF is too high for me and I hate the driving position (and a lot of other details).  I would buy a water-cooled monster tomorrow morning.

You can probably find an S4R by morning.


Title: Re: Monster 848R Concept
Post by: duccarlos on March 29, 2011, 05:21:29 PM
The Monster is the best selling Ducati because it's also the cheapest. If you put a 4v motor in it, the price shoots up. They put a 4v motor on the original Monster to see if there was a market, which there was. They also realizes that they would have 1098 motors available after going to 1198. It was an easy move to actually design a nake bike around the available motor instead of adding a motor to a bike that was not designed to handle it.


Title: Re: Monster 848R Concept
Post by: xcaptainxbloodx on March 29, 2011, 05:53:32 PM
848 monster doesn't make any sense to me. Monsters are the air cooled comfortable do anything blank slate of the ducati family.

848 streetfighter on the other hand makes perfect sense.  throw on cheaper suspension/brakes than the (like the pre evo 848)  and use SF styling/technical aesthetics and price it about a grand less than an evo and consider it sort of the bottem end of the SBK/SF range.


Title: Re: Monster 848R Concept
Post by: jsd2 on March 30, 2011, 04:48:27 AM
They may never make it but if they did I would probably buy one.  I don't really like the looks of the Street Fighter so I would prefer the 848 Monster compared to a 848 Street Fighter.  To each there own though. 


Jim


Title: Re: Monster 848R Concept
Post by: Slide Panda on March 30, 2011, 04:51:10 AM
Wow, didn't realize this was such a contentious topic... And for the record, I don't expect to see them make this thing. Nor, in the real world would I buy one. In the real world, I'm fixated on the MTS 1200. But hey, if they made it, and said "Here you go!" - would I take one? Hell yeah


Title: Re: Monster 848R Concept
Post by: toudg on March 30, 2011, 05:12:37 AM
Upon introduction of the Streefighter, Ducati has specifically said that the streetfighter will be taking over the watercooled naked bike segment of their lineup. I highly doubt they will introduce a watercooled monster, as there would be no need for the SF. The SF has to go before a watercooled Monster will happen.

You can probably find an S4R by morning.

Looked at my profile pict ?  Problem is, I won't buy another 2007 S4Rs in 2013.


Title: Re: Monster 848R Concept
Post by: 671M900 on March 30, 2011, 06:01:44 AM
Your profile pic shows no indication of it being an S4R, S4RS, S2R, 900, 750, etc. You said a watercooled monster, you didn't say which one.  [thumbsup]


Title: Re: Monster 848R Concept
Post by: Bladecutter on March 30, 2011, 06:15:51 AM
Well, since we all know Ducati is coming out with a new 4 valve engine family fairly soon, the idea of an 848 Monster or 848 Streetfighter are slim to none. I'm sure they only build enough 848 engines to feed the demand for the 848 SBK, where as they need 1098/1198 engines to feed, what, 4 different bike models now?

But, lets say they offered all 4 bikes with 848 engines (Multi, SBK, SF, and Monster).
Here's my order of WANT if I didn't already own my 848 SBK:

848 Monster
848 SBK
848 SF
848 Multi

The 848 Monster would be way more comfortable for commuting to and from work, and moderate destruction of mountain roads and trackdays. My 848 SBK can be used for commuting, but isn't preferred for it, but can destroy mountain roads with ease, along with the tracks.

I really don't care much for the SF to begin with, but I would rather have one of those than the Multi, which I think is butt ugly, and not the best riding thing in the Ducati lineup. I hate the seating position, I hate the handling, the weight is excessive, but I love the torque, which is pointless for a bike that should be capable of going off road with ease. I prefer my Honda Pacific Coast over a Multistrada by a HUGE margin.

The Hypermotard with knobbies makes a much better dual sport by a huge margin.

But anyway, that's just my opinion of the matter.
I'm actually really glad they won't ever make an 848 Monster, because i would have to buy it, period.

Thank you to the Ducati bean counters who realize that a Ducati 848 is too much of a threat to the rest of the Ducati lineup. You are helping me keep my wallet fuller.  ;D  [wine]

BC.


Title: Re: Monster 848R Concept
Post by: duccarlos on March 30, 2011, 06:34:42 AM
You know what they say about opinions and assholes...


Title: Re: Monster 848R Concept
Post by: Slide Panda on March 30, 2011, 06:36:16 AM
Carlos has both?

 ;D


Title: Re: Monster 848R Concept
Post by: duccarlos on March 30, 2011, 06:41:11 AM
That my opinion is the most important and that I'm an asshole.


Title: Re: Monster 848R Concept
Post by: NFJ79 on March 30, 2011, 07:23:06 AM
848 monster doesn't make any sense to me. Monsters are the air cooled comfortable do anything blank slate of the ducati family.

848 streetfighter on the other hand makes perfect sense.  throw on cheaper suspension/brakes than the (like the pre evo 848)  and use SF styling/technical aesthetics and price it about a grand less than an evo and consider it sort of the bottem end of the SBK/SF range.

+1  I agree!  This would bring the SF into my comfortable price range for a bike.


Title: Re: Monster 848R Concept
Post by: dropstharockalot on March 30, 2011, 11:56:33 AM
848 Monster?

Yes, please.


Title: Re: Monster 848R Concept
Post by: DucatiTorrey on March 30, 2011, 12:15:02 PM
The whole point of the SF was to have a water cooled naked bike. The whole point of thr Diavel is to have a cruiser. The SF already covers the need. It would be truly idiotic for Ducati to build this bike. If anything, they would build an 848 SF, not a Monster  [roll]
[roll]


Title: Re: Monster 848R Concept
Post by: Rigez on March 30, 2011, 02:00:25 PM
1) Minoli was talking about the possibility of a Diavel style of Ducati power cruiser about March 2005 --  ;D

2) 848 Monster?  Not gonna happen for one primary reason -- The existing frame / airbox / rear seat subframe casting won't physically fit with the Testastretta engine.  I've already tried it because I really loved the S4RT Monster with the Testastretta engine.  (the older 4-valve setup will fit with some minor changes and a few people have built already in the US/Europe)

If anyone ever builds one -- please post!

Do you happen to have links to those engine swaps? I've done google search and have only found references to the 1x98 swaps into 848


Title: Re: Monster 848R Concept
Post by: scduc on March 30, 2011, 05:44:04 PM
The SF is really a cross between naked super bike and a monster. Really not one or the other. I feel that there would only be slight conflict of interest. I do like the SF, however the ergo's really do not fit well for the ageing. Therefore the monster will most likely be my choice for awhile. Now if I had the chance to get 130+hp   YEAH. And prior history shows that the monster has eventually received its 4 valve'r hi HP motor so why should this model be any different? I do think however that if something like this does happen, it will be with the 1198 motor. It doesnt make much sense to go to the 848 from the 1100. The HP would only be 130ish as oppossed to 170ish.


Title: Re: Monster 848R Concept
Post by: bikepilot on March 30, 2011, 06:06:09 PM
Maybe I'm just weird, but I found the SF really comfy.  Now I haven't spent any significant time on one, but just trying it out for size everything fell into place and felt just perfect ergonomically.  I can't say the same for any other stock street bike I've been on. I'm not especially old, but my joints are probably worse than most peoples' (RA).



Title: Re: Monster 848R Concept
Post by: duccarlos on March 31, 2011, 06:38:23 AM
I think the aggressive siting position of the SF is what really turns people off. You need a lot of weight on the front to keep it on the ground.

And prior history shows that the monster has eventually received its 4 valve'r hi HP motor so why should this model be any different?

Because there was no naked water cooled bike. Why do you think they even built the SF? I understand you guys don't like the SF for whatever reason. I don't like it because of the ergos, but that doesn't take away from the fact that no manufacturer would build 2 bikes that would compete directly with one another. For the water cooled Monster to live, the SF must die.


Title: Re: Monster 848R Concept
Post by: donzo on March 31, 2011, 09:59:09 AM
Anybody know how the SF sales are going anyway?  I think I've seen like two on the roads, but there's plenty of monsters.  If the SF did kick the can, the monster could use the extra oomph.


Title: Re: Monster 848R Concept
Post by: duccarlos on March 31, 2011, 10:03:54 AM
I've seen a few in South Florida. I assume it also sells well in Cali. Most other places when I see a Duc, it's usually an SBK.


Title: Re: Monster 848R Concept
Post by: IdZer0 on March 31, 2011, 12:54:42 PM
I'm stubborn; still think an SF848 makes sense. ;D

201020112012
11981198SPSuperquadrata
848848848SP
SF1098SF1098SF1198
--SF848
M1100S --
M1100M1100evoM1100evo


Title: Re: Monster 848R Concept
Post by: duccarlos on March 31, 2011, 01:00:48 PM
I would love to see a SF848. Probably won't happen, but it would be logical.


Title: Re: Monster 848R Concept
Post by: scduc on March 31, 2011, 02:18:03 PM
I think the aggressive siting position of the SF is what really turns people off. You need a lot of weight on the front to keep it on the ground.

Because there was no naked water cooled bike. Why do you think they even built the SF? I understand you guys don't like the SF for whatever reason. I don't like it because of the ergos, but that doesn't take away from the fact that no manufacturer would build 2 bikes that would compete directly with one another. For the water cooled Monster to live, the SF must die.


I personally believe that they built the SF for the same reason they built the Hyper or the Multi. It was to fill what Ducati thought was a void in the market. The SF has no bearing on what will or wont happen to the monster. Clearly these are two different bikes and should be considered that way. The SF is a naked SB and the monster is a monster. Water cooled or not has nothing to do with what will or will not happen to the monster. That statment is like saying that Ducati has a liquid cooled bike so they should not build any other liquid cooled bike because that will just compete against itself. If anything, the SF is (would compete) more with the 1198. Which is what it basically is.


I personally would like to see an 848 Monster. its the next logical step.


Title: Re: Monster 848R Concept
Post by: mattc7 on March 31, 2011, 03:32:03 PM
Do you happen to have links to those engine swaps? I've done google search and have only found references to the 1x98 swaps into 848
Aretemoto built a 696 with a 996 motor


Title: Re: Monster 848R Concept
Post by: Triple J on March 31, 2011, 03:42:01 PM
The SF has no bearing on what will or wont happen to the monster. Clearly these are two different bikes and should be considered that way. The SF is a naked SB and the monster is a monster. Water cooled or not has nothing to do with what will or will not happen to the monster. That statment is like saying that Ducati has a liquid cooled bike so they should not build any other liquid cooled bike because that will just compete against itself. If anything, the SF is (would compete) more with the 1198. Which is what it basically is.

The 1198 and SF are different because one is faired, and the other isn't. Seating position is quite a bit different as well. Big difference overall. The other 1098 motor bikes are also completely different...Diavel more of a muscle bike, and MTS a tourer. None of these hurt each others sales as they are targeting different buyers.

The problem with having a water cooled Monster AND a SF (848 or 1098), is that both are just water-cooled naked bikes. Seating position and looks would be the only thing distinguishing them. Therefore, they would target the same demographic...people that want a water-cooled naked bike.

What sets the Monster apart now is it is an air-cooled naked bike...and there is a demographic that prefer air-cooled motors and would never buy a SF.


Title: Re: Monster 848R Concept
Post by: justinrhenry on March 31, 2011, 05:19:20 PM
i have a streetfighter and love it, but i have to admit the monster is way more comfy. 

(http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/29196_406871608629_804968629_4187308_6068328_n.jpg)


Title: Re: Monster 848R Concept
Post by: thought on March 31, 2011, 05:33:03 PM
one thing i wish they did on the sf is make it with a red frame... i think it would look great with it across all the colors they offer.


Title: Re: Monster 848R Concept
Post by: duccarlos on March 31, 2011, 05:54:57 PM

I personally believe that they built the SF for the same reason they built the Hyper or the Multi. It was to fill what Ducati thought was a void in the market. The SF has no bearing on what will or wont happen to the monster. Clearly these are two different bikes and should be considered that way. The SF is a naked SB and the monster is a monster. Water cooled or not has nothing to do with what will or will not happen to the monster. That statment is like saying that Ducati has a liquid cooled bike so they should not build any other liquid cooled bike because that will just compete against itself. If anything, the SF is (would compete) more with the 1198. Which is what it basically is.


I personally would like to see an 848 Monster. its the next logical step.

It's a good thing that Triple J can answer things in so restraint fashion. Using your logic Ducati's SBKs don't compete with Japanese liter bikes because they have 2 cylinders and the Japanese bikes have 4. Wow, just wow.


Title: Re: Monster 848R Concept
Post by: DucatiTorrey on March 31, 2011, 06:01:23 PM
wheres the snoring emoticon? im pissed im subscribed to this... whatever, i hate the diavel, but they are making it.i understand there are reasons they "wont" make an 848 sf, but we never thought ducati would even make a diavel. (someone else already made this point) This will be funny when we are all arguing about this, and ducati makes a scooter in the mean time.

keep going guys.


Title: Re: Monster 848R Concept
Post by: duccarlos on March 31, 2011, 06:02:50 PM
I still like the 848 SF idea.


Title: Re: Monster 848R Concept
Post by: csorin on March 31, 2011, 06:06:17 PM
one thing i wish they did on the sf is make it with a red frame... i think it would look great with it across all the colors they offer.

Looks like they just did this year:

2011 Streetfighter S

(http://ducati.com/cms-web/upl/MediaGalleries/120/MediaGallery_120658/SF-S_2011_R_[1067x600].jpg)

And here's one for sale on another forum where the guy powdercoated his frame red:

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a340/Feixien/DSC02369.jpg)

Gotta say though, my favorite is the 2010 S with the bronze frame:

(http://image.eurotuner.com/f/editorials/2010-ducati-streetfighter-s/26728678/2010-ducati-streetfighter-s.jpg)


Title: Re: Monster 848R Concept
Post by: muskrat on March 31, 2011, 06:24:53 PM
someone photoshop that exhaust outa there.


Title: Re: Monster 848R Concept
Post by: thought on March 31, 2011, 06:37:01 PM
nice... now it's too bad they took the white model out of there... haha, my current fave color combo is the white with red frame.  the 848 evo looks awesome in it too.


Title: Re: Monster 848R Concept
Post by: DRKWNG on March 31, 2011, 07:09:14 PM
I do like the SF, however the ergo's really do not fit well for the ageing. 

Really?  A buddy of mine back in Hawaii puts all kinds of miles on his SF and he's in his 70s.

I think the aggressive siting position of the SF is what really turns people off. You need a lot of weight on the front to keep it on the ground.

You should try the Super Duke.   [evil]


Title: Re: Monster 848R Concept
Post by: jvax on March 31, 2011, 07:58:57 PM
And here's one for sale on another forum where the guy powdercoated his frame red:

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a340/Feixien/DSC02369.jpg)

Now that's nice.  My fav color combo  [thumbsup]



Title: Re: Monster 848R Concept
Post by: geoffduc on March 31, 2011, 08:26:15 PM
I think that a 848 evo engined SF would be idle but I don't think ducati will build it as the cost would be almost the same as the current 1098 SF, thats why I eventually pulled the trigger and got myself a new SFs... [moto]

 [coffee]


Title: Re: Monster 848R Concept
Post by: DucatiTorrey on April 01, 2011, 06:18:58 AM
i like it, the bronze is amazing too. white with bronze  [evil] [evil]

i dont mind the exhaust though, though i have seen some sick underseat models!


Title: Re: Monster 848R Concept
Post by: thought on April 01, 2011, 07:56:48 PM
the more and more i think about it... the more and more i think that the sf will eventually be cut from the lineup.

the prob is that i think everyone looks at the sf for the performance potential more than the looks...  and almost everyone agrees that the monster is the better looking bike.  for a comparison, i would say that the monster is like a porsche cayman and the sf is a nissan skyline... while the skyline is respected for it's sheer ridiculous performance, the cayman will probably get you laid faster.

and i mean... in terms of sales volume... i'm sure that every person here would start to save up for a water cooled monster asap but not really have the drive to save up for a sf.  the sf seems to be more like something you would get if you happened to find it as a great price... but in the end, you would still want a water cooled monster.

right now, the sf makes sense from a production outlook as it's just a lightly modified 1098... much like the orig monster, it's been cobbled together out of another bike.  but once the new sbk comes out with a new frame in 2012, the sf has till they update the 848 to the new frame till it's the only old trellis sbk frame left in the lineup.  and at that point, they can either remake it out of the new sbk frame, or just drop it into the monster... which again, is always their best selling bike.  and from a fiscal standpoint... it just makes a whole lot more sense to go monster.


Title: Re: Monster 848R Concept
Post by: LayneK on April 01, 2011, 09:30:01 PM
nice... now it's too bad they took the white model out of there... haha, my current fave color combo is the white with red frame.  the 848 evo looks awesome in it too.

good call! love the white evo with red frame and wheels, would be awesome to have that to go along with the my monster... maybe some day


Title: Re: Monster 848R Concept
Post by: duccarlos on April 02, 2011, 04:31:28 AM
They would have to redesign the Monster frame to drop the engine into it. So let's look at what makes more sense:

A) Drop the current model. Hack up your best seller that fit this engine. Sell it to a relatively few people because the price would shoot up.

B) Keep you current models and simply swap out similar engines.

This is where I'm going to get blasted. Ducati should never had created the S4. That was a hack job. It sold well because there was a huge market for it. The engine completely kills the looks. Performance wise, you're better going with a Speed Triple, which was designed from the beginning with the motor in mind. Putting an 848 motor in a Monster would ruin what a Monster is supposed to be, an air cooled clean naked bike. If you don't like the looks of the SF, mod it. Even better, complain to Ducati. They killed the 999 because people thought it was ugly. They should have killed it because it was heavy and didn't perform as well as the 998. If you're going to get rid of a bike, do it for the right reasons. If you replace the SF because you think the Monster looks better, then frankly, you are a poser. If you believe that the Monster will perform better with an 848 motor than an 848 SF, then you're just ignorant.


Title: Re: Monster 848R Concept
Post by: thought on April 02, 2011, 07:05:47 AM
They would have to redesign the Monster frame to drop the engine into it.

didnt someone drop a watercooled testastretta into a new monster frame without hacking it up?  i think it's the same guy that is bringing in the radical ducati parts... and his bike looked pretty hot with a watercooled engine in it

A) Drop the current model. Hack up your best seller that fit this engine. Sell it to a relatively few people because the price would shoot up.

wouldnt they then just be selling it to everyone who wants a more comfortable and more powerful bike?  and if they drop the sf... then wouldnt they just be selling to the same exact crowd that they were selling to before?  at about the same price point?

B) Keep you current models and simply swap out similar engines.

but what about the cost of producing the frame instead of just parts sharing with current bikes?  right now, there are 5 basic ducati frames (sbk, mts, diavel, monster, hym) that i can think of, and each frame caters to a certain market.  the only double up is the monster/sf... and once they switch to the new sbk frame, in order to keep the sf, they'll have to keep producing 6 diff frames or totally modify the sf into the new sbk frame.

and i've never said that it was merely being replaced for looks, the reason i can see it being replaced is that it makes more sense financially to just watercool a monster to grow that market vs spending the development money on redesigning the sf or keep producing the old sbk frame for it.

ducati is a business... and they'll soon be faced with the choice of upgrading their best selling bike or upgrading a bike that tends to polarize most of the people who look at it into love it/hate it.

plus... we all have ducatis. >.<  haha, this means we're all basically posers are heart. :(


Title: Re: Monster 848R Concept
Post by: duccarlos on April 02, 2011, 12:33:16 PM
The 848 motor does not fit on the frame. They have to go back to the Testastretta engine. The SF simply uses the 848/1198 frame, which they will continue to use after the new SBK is released.


Title: Re: Monster 848R Concept
Post by: lazylightnin717 on April 02, 2011, 01:16:36 PM
This is where I'm going to get blasted. Ducati should never had created the S4. That was a hack job. It sold well because there was a huge market for it. The engine completely kills the looks. Performance wise, you're better going with a Speed Triple, which was designed from the beginning with the motor in mind.

[thumbsdown] Booooooooooo

The S4 was what many thought the Monster should be. That's what *some* people were waiting for from Ducati because they felt that the 2 valvers were too underpowered. And as far as "the engine kills the looks"..... come on. Opinions will be opinions  [roll]

If somebody wants a Speed Triple then they will buy one. If somebody wants a comfortable, powerful Ducati then the S4 Monster fits the niche.


Title: Re: Monster 848R Concept
Post by: TJR178 on April 02, 2011, 03:04:22 PM

[thumbsdown] Booooooooooo

The S4 was what many thought the Monster should be. That's what *some* people were waiting for from Ducati because they felt that the 2 valvers were too underpowered. And as far as "the engine kills the looks"..... come on. Opinions will be opinions  [roll]

If somebody wants a Speed Triple then they will buy one. If somebody wants a comfortable, powerful Ducati then the S4 Monster fits the niche.

+1

I'm sure Ducati never said, "You knowa?  We-a never should-a builta ay Mostro wit whater"


Title: Re: Monster 848R Concept
Post by: duccarlos on April 02, 2011, 05:59:23 PM
The Monster should be air cooled, end of story.


Title: Re: Monster 848R Concept
Post by: ducpainter on April 02, 2011, 06:01:45 PM
The Monster should be air cooled, end of story.
That's pretty closed minded.

Are you channeling someone?


Title: Re: Monster 848R Concept
Post by: kopfjäger on April 02, 2011, 06:13:36 PM
The Monster should be air cooled, end of story.

+1


Title: Re: Monster 848R Concept
Post by: Raux on April 02, 2011, 11:49:19 PM
The Monster should be air cooled, end of story.

actually that's the word out of Ducati in an interview some time ago.
but after reading about this new ownership more... i'm sure they will do whatever makes them money


Title: Re: Monster 848R Concept
Post by: scduc on April 03, 2011, 07:22:46 AM
The Monster should be air cooled, end of story.


Then tell that to the owners of S4R*'s. They dont own real monsters?


Title: Re: Monster 848R Concept
Post by: lazylightnin717 on April 03, 2011, 07:52:30 AM
The Monster should be air cooled, end of story.

Oh pllllllleeeeeaaaaase. We both ride Monsters. Air cooled or liquid cooled.  [beer]

Now get your head outta your buttocks please  ;D


Title: Re: Monster 848R Concept
Post by: xcaptainxbloodx on April 03, 2011, 01:28:53 PM
all the anti water cooled monster people need to go ride an s4rs and wake the hell up.


Title: Re: Monster 848R Concept
Post by: duccarlos on April 03, 2011, 01:31:35 PM
If a want an water cooled Monster, I'll buy a SF.


Title: Re: Monster 848R Concept
Post by: kopfjäger on April 03, 2011, 01:39:08 PM
all the anti water cooled monster people need to go ride an s4rs and wake the hell up.

I'm sure they ride great, but that doesn't change the fact they are ugly.  :D


Title: Re: Monster 848R Concept
Post by: DucatiTorrey on April 03, 2011, 01:54:36 PM
I'm sure they ride great, but that doesn't change the fact they are ugly.  :D

oh snap


Title: Re: Monster 848R Concept
Post by: lazylightnin717 on April 03, 2011, 02:12:33 PM
I'm sure they ride great, but that doesn't change the fact they are ugly.  :D

I would gladly take them all so you wouldn't have to look at 'em anymore....just because I'm am that nice of a guy!
 [moto] [moto] [moto] [moto] [moto] [moto] [moto]


Title: Re: Monster 848R Concept
Post by: muskrat on April 03, 2011, 02:19:07 PM
A Monster can be both air cooled and water cooled.  The SF DID NOT and has NOT taken the S4's place, just look at the sales.


Title: Re: Monster 848R Concept
Post by: duccarlos on April 03, 2011, 03:27:08 PM
And I doubt it ever will simply because there are choices out there. I think we can say the same about the new Monster versus the old one.


Title: Re: Monster 848R Concept
Post by: muskrat on April 03, 2011, 04:00:51 PM
a classic can never be replaced.  :P


Title: Re: Monster 848R Concept
Post by: duccarlos on April 03, 2011, 05:37:45 PM
a classic can never be replaced.  :P

You're just bitter you bought the ugly bike.


Title: Re: Monster 848R Concept
Post by: xcaptainxbloodx on April 03, 2011, 07:16:15 PM
I'm sure they ride great, but that doesn't change the fact they are ugly.  :D

sorry, sometimes I forget that looks are what really matters.


Title: Re: Monster 848R Concept
Post by: muskrat on April 03, 2011, 07:50:37 PM
You're just bitter you bought the ugly bike.
nah, she's mine and paid for....the best of both worlds.  ;)


Title: Re: Monster 848R Concept
Post by: thought on April 03, 2011, 07:55:33 PM
If you replace the SF because you think the Monster looks better, then frankly, you are a poser.

hmmm... to rephrase this... because your basis for the air cooled vs water cooled argument just seems to be looks...

"If you replace the water cooled monster because you think the air cooled monster looks better, then frankly, you're a poser."

according to your own logic that's the conclusion to be drawn right?


Title: Re: Monster 848R Concept
Post by: lazylightnin717 on April 03, 2011, 08:28:43 PM
...liquid cooled monsters are better...
 









;D










and that's my arguement




Title: Re: Monster 848R Concept
Post by: duccarlos on April 03, 2011, 08:59:15 PM
hmmm... to rephrase this... because your basis for the air cooled vs water cooled argument just seems to be looks...

"If you replace the water cooled monster because you think the air cooled monster looks better, then frankly, you're a poser."

according to your own logic that's the conclusion to be drawn right?

The difference is I own up to it. Very simple, the old Monster frame was never designed for an water cooled engine. Many people like it because it's at the very edge. The sitting position alone is not optimal for that much power. Again, it was a hack job that paid off in sales. AND, it's also ugly to boot.


Title: Re: Monster 848R Concept
Post by: 671M900 on April 03, 2011, 09:44:32 PM
The difference is I own up to it. Very simple, the old Monster frame was never designed for an water cooled engine. Many people like it because it's at the very edge. The sitting position alone is not optimal for that much power. Again, it was a hack job that paid off in sales. AND, it's also ugly to boot.

Weren't the later, fuel injected monsters with the ride height adjusters designed around the ST2 frame? I've heard them referred to as the ST2 style frames, and the ST2 was watercooled, wasn't it?


Title: Re: Monster 848R Concept
Post by: duccarlos on April 04, 2011, 04:23:11 AM
It might have a beefier trellis frame, but not sure if it was a redesign from the ST2. I will let the carbie people answer that one.


Title: Re: Monster 848R Concept
Post by: Raux on April 04, 2011, 09:55:12 AM
Weren't the later, fuel injected monsters with the ride height adjusters designed around the ST2 frame? I've heard them referred to as the ST2 style frames, and the ST2 was watercooled, wasn't it?

ST2 was a watercooled 2V bike it was basically at 900 bumped to 944 with waterjacketed heads but same setup as the rest of the 2V family... yes I know a very simplistic description.



Title: Re: Monster 848R Concept
Post by: mitt on April 04, 2011, 09:57:54 AM
sorry, sometimes I forget that looks are what really matters.

It is a ducati at starbucks afterall  ;D   ;D   ;D


mitt


Title: Re: Monster 848R Concept
Post by: Duck-Stew on April 04, 2011, 04:12:26 PM
Weren't the later, fuel injected monsters with the ride height adjusters designed around the ST2 frame? I've heard them referred to as the ST2 style frames, and the ST2 was watercooled, wasn't it?


1993-2001 Monster frames were based on the 888 SBK frame which was water-cooled.
2002-2008 Monster frames were based on the ST frames which were water-cooled.
2009&up Monsters don't have frames.  :P


Title: Re: Monster 848R Concept
Post by: Betty on April 04, 2011, 04:33:08 PM
2009&up Monsters don't have frames.  :P

Considering that is the one thing that I really dislike about the looks of the new Monsters ... I found that hilarious. Thanks Stew.


Title: Re: Monster 848R Concept
Post by: duccarlos on April 04, 2011, 04:41:12 PM
Bring back the Trellis frame.


Title: Re: Monster 848R Concept
Post by: lazylightnin717 on April 04, 2011, 05:53:26 PM

1993-2001 Monster frames were based on the 888 SBK frame which was water-cooled.
2002-2008 Monster frames were based on the ST frames which were water-cooled.
2009&up Monsters don't have frames.  :P


[laugh]

Very interesting indeed


Title: Re: Monster 848R Concept
Post by: muskrat on April 04, 2011, 07:28:27 PM
Best post in 7 pages!   :D


Title: Re: Monster 848R Concept
Post by: Duck-Stew on April 04, 2011, 08:40:37 PM
Thx!  I thought this thread could use some perspective...  8)


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