Ducati Monster Forum

a good commentary for starters...

http://www.motomatters.com/report/2011/03/30/2011_motogp_jerez_preview_the_party_at_t.html (http://www.motomatters.com/report/2011/03/30/2011_motogp_jerez_preview_the_party_at_t.html)

Interesting for sure. Though I would place Lorenzo as a favourite to win this over Stoner. He has historically performed much better than the Aussie. Was that a little Lorenzo hate that I caught seething through the words? So much for impartiality of the press

I would generally give the advantage for home field, in this case the Spaniards. If Pedrosa was not hurt, I would have him as the favorite. Even when hurt, I think the combo of knowing the track and riding the Honda still makes him a favorite. Lorenzo of course is up there, but Stoner on the Honda is by far the safest money.

he's having surgery after this race for 'intermittent compression of the subclavian artery'.  i would look for him to survive this one and that's about it. 

that idea gets really IZ_ with the extension to something like mm.  is emmett the Press?  or is he some guy writing a blog?  arguably everything he writes is opinion.

I assume that is different than stretching of the nerve bundle.  Jebus, how many different diagnoses has this guy had?

http://crash.net/motogp/news/167967/1/dani_pedrosa_to_undergo_surgery_after_jerez.html (http://crash.net/motogp/news/167967/1/dani_pedrosa_to_undergo_surgery_after_jerez.html)

I don't know squat about medicine, but that sounds like a better diagnosis than a nerve problem, and it *sounds* like surgery will take care of it--his season might not be a total loss. 

[/quote]

Neither diagnosis is great, nor does either carry a surefire likelihood of cure... could be a lingering, even career-threatening problem. Just depends on what the cause is and how bad the compression is. I'm gonna ask an ortho friend about it later.

nicky's office

(http://a.yfrog.com/img614/4539/whfzw.jpg)

I just re-read the MM article, what struck you as 'Lorenzo hate'?

I didn't get any of that vibe... ???

"sometimes belabored victory celebrations" was the only thing i noticed.  which aint much.

Fact, not opinion  :D

http://motomatters.com/analysis/2011/03/31/2011_motogp_jerez_thursday_round_up_pati.html (http://motomatters.com/analysis/2011/03/31/2011_motogp_jerez_thursday_round_up_pati.html)

Stoner may whine at times...but he has a valid point about being undervalued IMO. Especially when you also consider the failed J-Lo acquisition last year.

True...they gave him no credit.

but from the factory's point of view he was still fast and a contender.

Why change?

When Casey left, Ducati was in the position of having no one crazy/talented enough to go fast on the bike as is...

so they change.

...and now they have a lot more money.

they may have undervalued casey but they may also not have had the resources to do what he asked.. or at least as quickly as he asked.

we can hypothesize forever.

We don't know, but if I was Casey and told Ducati this or that needed changing after winning on the thing...and they do nothing...

then Valentino comes in and they are changing things to try to suit him...

I'd be happy to be at Honda...

just like Vale was happy to be at Yamaha...and maybe now Ducati. Time will tell on this move. :P

Maybe...except they had the money to offer J-Lo twice what he was getting paid at the time.  :-\  They had 2 MotoGP champs on the bike, and it still took Rossi/Burgess to get real changes. Doesn't look good.

Who really knows the whole story...but I can easily see Stoner's point of view.

Good start for Rossi this weekend.  Stoner/Pedro leading the charge.  Lorenzo was fighting the bike a bit during fp1 and nearly tossed it in the same spot Dovi went down, but saved the lowside.  Hopkins is hanging around the back markers... not all that bad to be honest.

Rossi in the number 3 spot eh? Not what I was expecting

Man, Elias is really stuggling with the Bridgestones.  Poor dude. 

Hopper is doin' ok.  And he's still a douche. 

This whole "Repsols-up-front" thing sucks.  I'm bored with it already.

I'm almost rooting for WhoreGhey to break the monotony.

Can someone throw SPOILER in the title?  Yes, we all know there will be race results in this thread, but this way we can't avoid having 'that argument' later.  Gracias.

Surprising indeed to see Rossi so far up the order.

I'm sure Stoner and George aren't concerned with Pedro and Rossi, knowing that they can't last the distance.

Dunno what's up with The Ben.

...that didn't take long

(http://pix.crash.net/motorsport/710/PA908452.jpg)

http://www.crash.net/motogp/results/168007/1/spanish_motogp_-_friday_practice_times_2.html (http://www.crash.net/motogp/results/168007/1/spanish_motogp_-_friday_practice_times_2.html)

Didn't Rossi comment in an earlier MotoGp article that he really likes this track?

FWIW - SPEED broadcasting 'live' at 0800 DST East Coast.

SORRY...I was slammed his morning and hadn't had a chance to log in till now and see that it was already taken care of...

really is live.  that's when the race is.

Again, if Pedrosa was not hurt, he would be scary fast.

I don't think his injury is affecting his practice performances.  That's my opinion anyway.

Looks like Hopper is going to score a few points.   [thumbsup]

stoner is just fast i can see him complaining when things are not going right as all the champs always complain if they are not winning, even rossi did that for a while he'll blame it on tires or settings or the bike or his shoulder etc.  instead of just saying "i'm slow because everyone else is just faster and i'm slow right now".

but in the end it doesn't matter these guys are all getting paid their 10s of milliions a year so changing teams can't be that bad for them

http://superbikeplanet.com/2011/Apr/110401rydernotes.htm (http://superbikeplanet.com/2011/Apr/110401rydernotes.htm)

Hmmmm....none of this may matter

http://motomatters.com/news/2011/04/01/f1_and_motogp_to_merge.html (http://motomatters.com/news/2011/04/01/f1_and_motogp_to_merge.html) 
 



;)

April Fools! ;D
 ???

Stoner tops qualy.

In other news today, the sky is blue and the sun is bright.

Lots of folks checking out the kitty litter.

Pos    No.    Rider    Bike    Time    Diff    Diff Previous
1    27    Casey STONER        HONDA    1'38.757         
2    26    Dani PEDROSA         HONDA    1'38.915    0.158    0.158
3    1    Jorge LORENZO         YAMAHA    1'38.918    0.161    0.003
4    11    Ben SPIES              YAMAHA    1'39.390    0.633    0.472
5    58   Marco SIMONCELLI    HONDA    1'39.486    0.729    0.096
6    4    Andrea DOVIZIOSO    HONDA    1'39.709    0.952    0.223
7    14    Randy DE PUNIET     DUCATI    1'39.892    1.135    0.183
8    5    Colin EDWARDS         YAMAHA    1'39.895    1.138    0.003
9    35    Cal CRUTCHLOW       YAMAHA    1'40.019    1.262    0.124
10    7    Hiroshi AOYAMA       HONDA    1'40.168    1.411    0.149
11    69    Nicky HAYDEN        DUCATI    1'40.175    1.418    0.007
12    46    Valentino ROSSI     DUCATI    1'40.185    1.428    0.010
13    8    Hector BARBERA      DUCATI    1'40.217    1.460    0.032
14    21    John HOPKINS       SUZUKI    1'40.310    1.553    0.093
15    65    Loris CAPIROSSI     DUCATI    1'40.523    1.766    0.213
16    17    Karel ABRAHAM      DUCATI    1'40.601    1.844    0.078
17    24    Toni ELIAS           HONDA    1'41.114    2.357    0.513

There's going to be a lot of good scraps through the field tomorrow.   [thumbsup]

I'm sick of Stoner.

I do think that tomorrows race is going to be a good one. Lots of good action today

I real thought Tony Elias was going to do much better?   :-\  I know it's early for him but still. 

Feelin' better that I didn't fork over the equivalent of 100-euros for the HD feed...but that all may change if there's some real racing before too long...  [coffee]

Seems the forecast is for rain, so... it'll be interesting.  [popcorn]

Elias and Hopper on the podium?  :P

[laugh]

Rossi's got a good record in the rain.... [coffee]

Yes and the warmup was pretty damp.  Rossi up at the top of the sheets.  He might be praying for rain at this point.

Looks like rain may equalize things a bit and give the Ducati Factory a chance at glory today...


1 27 Casey STONER AUS Repsol Honda Team Honda 251.8 1'50.297

2 46 Valentino ROSSI ITA Ducati Team Ducati 260.0 1'50.888  0.591 / 0.591

3 4 Andrea DOVIZIOSO ITA Repsol Honda Team Honda 258.9 1'51.137 0.840 / 0.249

4 69 Nicky HAYDEN USA Ducati Team Ducati 250.8 1'51.176 0.879 / 0.039

5 1 Jorge LORENZO SPA Yamaha Factory Racing Yamaha 252.9 1'51.273 0.976 / 0.097

6 58 Marco SIMONCELLI ITA San Carlo Honda Gresini Honda 257.7 1'51.462 1.165 / 0.189

7 26 Dani PEDROSA SPA Repsol Honda Team Honda 255.3 1'51.476 1.179 / 0.014

8 35 Cal CRUTCHLOW GBR Monster Yamaha Tech 3 Yamaha 249.4 1'52.025 1.728 / 0.549

9 14 Randy DE PUNIET FRA Pramac Racing Team Ducati 246.8 1'52.050 1.753 / 0.025

10 5 Colin EDWARDS USA Monster Yamaha Tech 3 Yamaha 244.3 1'52.376 2.079 / 0.326

11 65 Loris CAPIROSSI ITA Pramac Racing Team Ducati 248.4 1'53.163 2.866 / 0.787

12 21 John HOPKINS USA Rizla Suzuki MotoGP Suzuki 256.8 1'53.329 3.032 / 0.166

13 8 Hector BARBERA SPA Mapfre Aspar Team MotoGP Ducati 245.3 1'53.535 3.238 / 0.206

14 11 Ben SPIES USA Yamaha Factory Racing Yamaha 260.0 1'53.589 3.292 / 0.054

15 17 Karel ABRAHAM CZE Cardion AB Motoracing Ducati 242.6 1'53.963 3.666 / 0.374

16 7 Hiroshi AOYAMA JPN San Carlo Honda Gresini Honda 241.0 1'54.606 4.309 / 0.643

17 24 Toni ELIAS SPA LCR Honda MotoGP Honda 257.6 1'56.451 6.154 / 1.845

15 minutes till lights and light rain still, Emmett just said it'll definitely be a wet race. Should be interested to see how Rossi wrestles the Duc in the wet during a race.

 [bang]

He was flying up until that point

I feel bad for SIC

my question now is by how many seconds will rossi beat hopper?

idk he might be taking it easy now
looked like the bike was sliding on his leg
that couldn't feel good

I saw that, didn't even take his hands off the bars

Also not sure if rossi has a 'take it easy' mode

That was a dumb make the beast with two backsen move!  [thumbsdown]

yet if everyone keeps falling down he could still win

rossi goes to apologize and, for a second there, i thought stoner was gonna be "nice" about the whole thing...


stoner to rossi: "obviously your ambition outweighed your talent"

 :o  Wow!!!

That was exciting...

Glad to see Nicky on the podium.  Great comeback for Rossi.

Too bad for Edwards.  

Quote from  Stoner to Rossi after the race. "your ambition out ways your talent"
I officially hate Rossi what a douche

crazy racing today! go nicky

yeah, what a make the beast with two backsin' douche, walking down to stoner's pitbox to apologize face to face...  [roll]

exciting to say the least...  [moto]

so many bummer dnf's
but i'm very happy to see nicky on the podium  [thumbsup]

nicky's interview was kinda funny... "i doubt i'd be up here w/o the rain, so we'll take it any way we can get it."
 
;D

I hate SPEEDTV....

Casey's comment...hahaha - he hasn't been this cocky since July 2008

nicky "tell it like it is" hayden, i like that about him

Carnage

Rossi was pretty cool when Elias took him out in T1 at Jerez in 2006.  Stuff happens, especially in the rain.

Four words: Wow! Crashfest. Crazy results!!

(http://s3.amazonaws.com/twitpic/photos/full/269617668.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAJF3XCCKACR3QDMOA&Expires=1301844916&Signature=lZ%2FBVCpncj7c4GGmPfZeO8FyGwg%3D)

Crash was 100% on Rossi but Stoner still comes off like a complete Douche! 

Corner workers all rush to help Vale get up and back on track while Stoner stomps his feet like a 5 year old. Classic!! [clap]

Stoner is the only guy I don't care for on the entire grid.  He just comes off like a complete punk a$$ pregnant dog.

Scandalous! That race was absolutely amazing. Stoner... stop acting like a little girl. Glad to see Rossi finish in 5th and Hayden with a podium (although he didn't really earn it)

To bad for both Simo and Spies.

And if I haven't said it already, go home Stoner

I'm not a hayden fan in the least but he is a stand up guy and by staying on the bike this race lets you earn it....and hey at least it's a departure from haystick being consistently 5th  ;D

When Casey's words were replayed to VR by way of the Italian TV announcers, Rossi's response was simply, "Perhaps he forgot who I am."

Brilliant

+1!!! [thumbsup] Never try to "one up" the quote game with Vale! [laugh]

True that. I stand corrected.

"Obviously your ambition outweighs your talent"  Saying this to 9 time world champion  ???

personally i would like to see some of these riders come to blows if someone ran them off the track and crashed them both i would like to see these guys go at each other like hockey players it would show that the other guy can't just do what he wants and not have consequences.

that is something that stoner has to do to rossi, he should have went up to rossi at the crash and grabbed his helmet and given him a couple of uppercuts under the helmet and break is jaw, sure he would probably get suspended a few races, but i guarantee at that point nobody would be calling him a wuss and rossi wouldn't ever try to run him off ever again.

or when rossi appologized stoner should have clocked him right there and knocked his a$$ out and stand over him and say "appology accepted, oh yeah sorry for knocking you out, b&tch!"

 [laugh] [laugh]

You are aware this is racing and not highschool right?

Stoner would just pregnant dog about it in a press conference afterwards anyway 'He broke my hand with his face, everyone is so mean, the world is unfair, I'M GOING TO MY ROOM!'

he would add later 'you're not the boss of me!'

Casey 'Imatool' Stoner
(http://resources.motogp.com/2011/04/03/crash_stoner_rossi001_original.jpg)

Stoner really is a punk ass.  Notice Rossi was in front of him when he crashed.

I couldn't beleive the ambition/talent comment.

Yeah, he got taken out.  It's not fair, it's racing.

If someone wiped me out id probably feel the same way but then again its racing and this stuff happens, specially in the wet. Kudos to rossi for going to the honda paddock to apologize even if there wasnt any need to.

Genuinely coulda felt for Stoner if he didn't get all Stoner-y about it afterwards.

He was a complete tool for the move on Stoner, just because he apologise does not let you off the hook, or stop you from being a douche.

wow.  I don't recall anyone saying, "it's racing" when Pedrosa crashed Hayden out.   You guys crack me up.

Stoner and rossi aren't on the same team and one of them isn't clearly going to stroll to a championship during this race. (stoner's going to walk away with it anyway)

and come on....it's a little funny that the duc's front end still has it out for stoner

actually I did, but just never posted anything ;D

He would still be a tool.

Rossi was on fire. Did you see him passing people? I'm pretty sure he was racing, not trying to run Stoner off the track

It was a douchebag move. In reverse you Rossi fan boys would be all over Stoner. I would have been pissed when he apologized, but I would not have made a dumb comment about Rossi's talent. That was ridiculous. I would have called him a douchebag and told him to get out of my paddock.

If this happened to Spies and Stoner, what would you all be saying, pregnant dog pregnant dog pregnant dog. I thought Stoners coment to Rossi was gold considering he is the 9 time world champion  [laugh]. I agree it was a racing incident it just pisses me off that once again its Rossi taking out Stoner
And how the make the beast with two backs does Rossi get push started before Stoner when Stoners bike was ontop of Rossi, Thats called attitude, Mick Doohan had the same attitudeCorner workers helped Rossi and left Stoner by the side of the track waling away, tell me you wouldnt be pissed if you were about to loose 25 points.  

 ;D

I was thinking the same thing

No doubt. They would have been whining like a pregnant dog, but since it was the "golden boy" it's ok.  :-\

Maybe Stoner's bike was a bit more screwed up than Rossi's?

I haven't seen the video, but by the look of the photos with Rossi still holding the grips all the way through the slide.. he was as pissed about it as Stoner. Like "I cannot believe this make the beast with two backsing front end.. i'm gonna strangle it"

Stoner vs Rossi Jerez 2011 crash (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTGevrZWiug#normal)

...and if anybody had been successful on Rossi's move we'd all be still pulling our jaws off the floor.

He screwed up, knew it, and went to apologize.

Casey's reply was appropriate. ;D

Otherwise...wow. :o :o :o

...and Hopper beat Capi.

thanks.. the photos I saw were from the front... but still looks like the front went out from under him

edit: apparently Rossi admitted to a braking mistake

Didn't Stoner put the nail in Gibernau's coffin by taking him out?  It happens.  It's not OK, but when people are dropping like flies in the rain, stuff happens.

If the track was dry, he would have held it. It's a douchebag move in the wet. He knew it and tried to apologize. Stoner's response was warranted even if ludicrous. Basically a racing incident that will be blown out of proportion because of the parties involved.

^^^ What he said.

The only comment I've heard so far that I didn't like was Stoner saying something to the effect of "I wish Rossi would have apologized privately without all the cameras in tow."

That's like saying "I wish Rossi wasn't Rossi."  [laugh]

And what was up with the "backstage patter" between Hayden and the Pedrobot? Pedro was actually... smiling? Seems like the Puig influence might be wearing off...

I'm seeing a lot of desperation surfacing in Rossi's 'racecraft'.
He's been around long enough to know better.

The tires did look in bad shape...were they using full wets?
Do they even have 'intermediates' any more?

I want to see the *whole* race, I only saw the abridged Speed version.
I'll catch the Euro feed version maybe Monday.

No intermediates any more.

Slicks or wets, and they were on wets

I didn't see it as desperate...foolish, but not desperate.

The guy was on a roll. When I'm on a roll I'm pretty likely to say make the beast with two backs it, keep going.

Agreed.  Any unforced crash is a mistake, but not necessarily desperate.  Using Gibernau as a berm in the last corner is desperation :).

My point was in the context of 'Rossi'...

Qatar - trying to close the door on Ben after he was already past, and *nearly* crashing.
Jerez - trying to pass Stoner from *way* too far back ... on lap 7 of a rain race.

He knows better than to do that stuff.
They're rookie errors.

Guys on slower bikes tend to push harder and crash more.  Nothing new there.

Maybe.

He finished both races in the points...

rookies don't do that when they crash...

and he's trying to surpass Bayliss as the Ducati god of wet races. ;)

Everybody was complaining about the lack of choice when it came to wet tires. They all looked bad at the end of the race. I think it was Simo that was saying he could feel them getting worse with every lap.

It didn't rain after the race started. The track was drying.

What would choice in wets accomplish?

Different race, but I just watched the recorded Supercross race from this weekend at Cowboy Stadium here in DFW and there was a similar (but obviously different) wreck with James Stewart losing it at the end of a whoop section and crashing out Chad Reed and punting him clean off the track. Stewart remounted and finished 4th. Reed had the bike on top of him, finally got going and ended up 8th. Point is (at least to me) some shit is just caused by being on a track and racing. The other "stuff" is being a dumbass douche. Whether SMX or MotoGP everyone will have their personal view of an incident. It's either racing or you are a douche. Crap just tends to happen on slick tracks... whether it's dirt or tarmac.

If I raced I would probably have a better answer for you. But my best guess would be soft or hard wets just like slicks. Looks to me like they were wearing way too fast. A look at Haydens rear tire at the end of the race and it was completely spent.

fwiw, bayliss didn't always get it right, either... remember imola 2001? troy crashed his paul smart tribute bike in the wet race 1, fractured his collarbone and sat out race 2.

full wets are pencil-eraser soft. afaik, they've never offered a choice of compound.

if they thought the track was going to dry, they likely would've run a cut slick instead.

the choices are usually full wets, intermediates (like a DOT), cut slicks, slicks.

i dont' think i've seen intermediates since they went to spec tires.

Jorge's was the same...

I believe that is an inherent quality of rains because the water cools the tire.

They need to be soft to stick, and it's always been that a full wet tire in the dry won't last.

Talk to Dorna about allowing cut slicks. ;)
No one gets it right every time...except you. :-* [laugh]

I'm thinking of a Donnington race? where he crashed like 6 times and still finished 5th or 6th.

This is shaping up to be a great season.

Casey's starting to see Rossi everywhere   ;D

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/90428 (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/90428)

On the motogp.com feed you can still see it raining pretty hard at the end of the race.

Hayden and JL's tires were essentially slicks at the end of the race.  The close-ups of the rears in winners box was interesting.


mitt

Nicky's rear tire

http://yfrog.com/h7q4noaj (http://yfrog.com/h7q4noaj)

Anyone watch the video MotoGP put up of the Paddock girls in Jerez?  ;D  I'll take 4 please!  [drool]

here are the tire regs from 2008:

http://motomatters.com/news/2008/12/22/fim_announces_new_tire_regulations_for_m.html (http://motomatters.com/news/2008/12/22/fim_announces_new_tire_regulations_for_m.html)

the relevant part:

Although no mention was made of intermediate tires in either the old regulations or in the new rules, there is a passage in the new rules which basically rules them out. Under the new regulations, only the tires supplier can cut tires, and any alterations to tires for one rider must be made identically available for all riders. As the rule stands, intermediate tires will only be cut from the available slicks if the tire supplier decides it is necessary, and the tire supplier must supply exactly the same tires for all riders. That basically means no individual rider is able to ask for intermediate tires any more.

so they're not exactly disallowed, they're just not available unless bridgestone decides that they're needed for the conditions and makes them available to everybody.

(unless this part of the tire regs was changed since 2008)

Rossi went from 12th to 2nd. Crashed then went from 13th to 5th.
That's 13 passes!

Now granted, 2nd he took out (we have reviewed the soap opera). Some he passed while they were on the ground or back in Paddocks. But Gaaawdam. That's a lot of movement.

I'm impressed.

Pedro talked in his interview about not being able to give it full throttle down the straights. That's kinda awesome in a weird way

Didn't get to see the race until just now, but say what you will about the move on Stoner.... Rossi was flying at that point and although he should have waited another few corners, would have passed Stoner regardless, he just took a chance that didn't pan out.  I think he wins the race if that doesn't happen, but racing is racing and shit does happen.

I just watched as well.  Not typically a fan of the wet races but that was fun to watch!  Still in disbelief at The Doctor's performance!  :o   It would've been nice to see Simoncelli finish first.  Tough breaks for so many!

All bets are of in the Rain  !

Remember Assen in '09 I think it was in WSBK.

Dolph

the eurosport feed said the track was almost dry. :-\

either way the wets didn't hold up.

I liked how one of the announcers called him Sideshow Bob [laugh]

or LeMans in 08....


no they didn't...they just aren't meant to on a dry/drying track either....it became a game of throttle control and keep it upright to bring it home for which the remaining field of finishers did exactly that...


and IMHO ( and I know I am in the minority on this) I am not a Rossi fanboy and not taking his side per sey, but it wasn't a dick move or a douche move, but a racing move that just didn't work due to the a-typical Ducati front end for which it just happened...Rossi was moving well past Stoner at that point and there were many other guys who made that EXACT same move/pass and just stuck it...so it wasn't really that unreasonable....now, if Val had not been as far past him and was say, still side by side pushing him outward or even if Stoner had a wheel's worth of an edge in front of him and it happened, I'd be saying something different...but I don't think it was an unreasonable move at all, especially given how much room there was between them before his front end folded...it just didn't hold and Casey became collateral damage...

Or Indianapolis....wait, that was a hurricane  [evil]

yeah, and there were lakes forming on the track...but it was fun sitting in the seats that I did and watch the Yamaha tent blow over and the sillyness ensue...

No one had made that exact same move...Rossi came from WAY back on the straight and tried to outbrake him. I don't think it was a Ducati front end crash, but rather a braking mistake (i.e. too deep into the corner for a wet track). Rossi admitted as much. Looked like he was fighting going wide anyway. Seemed like a rookie move to me...he'd have passed him in the next few corners if he would have just been patient. Silly move for that early in the race IMO.

I almost flew off the bleachers.


+1 Still a rookie mistake. You know the Duc has sketchy front end. You also know you're faster than the guy. Wait a few corners and pick your spot.

Hopefully not a derby

http://motomatters.com/analysis/2011/04/03/2011_jerez_motogp_race_day_round_up_the_.html (http://motomatters.com/analysis/2011/04/03/2011_jerez_motogp_race_day_round_up_the_.html)

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/90429 (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/90429)

he came in too hot & wasn't intending to try and pass him at the time.  also stoner heard him coming and moved over.  

clearly he wouldn't have gone over and apologized if he didn't know he screwed up but even stoner has said it was just a racing incident.

Great read.

"Valentino Rossi's desperation at the deficit Ducati has caused the Italian to make a stupid move, the kind of move Rossi hasn't tried for several years."

+1!! Indeed, very insightful. [thumbsup]

And more...

http://www.waynegardnerapproved.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=62&Itemid=511 (http://www.waynegardnerapproved.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=62&Itemid=511)

FWIW, after hearing the audio of the 'meeting' on YouTube, I'm starting to wonder if Casey just chose his words poorly....

He calmly and seemingly sincerely asked VR "how's your shoulder?" (twice) and then quickly uttered the infamous "ambition....talent" comment, by which he might have meant "desire (to ride well again after major shoulder surgery).....ability (to do same while shoulder is less than 100%)".   [coffee]

Since English (let alone Oz English) isn't Rossi's native language, it's feasible that he could have been miffed by Stoner's comments 'cause he has few linguistic references to fall back on (or am I just thinking too much?).  Wonder what Burgess said to him afterwards...

Bottom line (to me) is that no championship rider deliberately crashes - alone or in front of someone else.  Rossi knows first-hand (shoulder, leg) about the pain and suffering....although it looked like he was enjoyig bumping bikes with Lorenzo last year [leo]

I know this is on the Oz monster forum site, just another opinion
http://www.foxsports.com.au/motor-sports/moto-gp/australian-motogp-ace-casey-stoner-was-right-to-respond-to-valentino-rossis-apology-with-derision/story-fn2ms4i4-1226033228140 (http://www.foxsports.com.au/motor-sports/moto-gp/australian-motogp-ace-casey-stoner-was-right-to-respond-to-valentino-rossis-apology-with-derision/story-fn2ms4i4-1226033228140)

Your impression makes sense to me. Then again, even if Casey did mean his comment to be harsh, I wouldn't blame him. For a championship contender to drop 25 to his chief rival when he was fast has to smart. And on top of that, he has to deal with the complete fiasco of how the cornerworkers handled the situation. This significantly hurts Stoner's chances for an overall win. Glad to gea him trying to move on to the next round.

And I'd love to hear how different the feeling on this board would be if Rossi had taken out, say, the Ben.

Boys will be boys sometimes !

Those 2 included.

Dolph     

fwiw, i saw this happen during the live coverage and, english being my first language, i got the impression that the entire exchange from stoner's side was indeed sarcastic.

"is your shoulder ok? you hurt your shoulder?" with a patronizing pat on his injured shoulder.

I don't think anyone is defending Rossi's move...they're just saying that Stoner came off looking like a tool with his response. It obviously wasn't on purpose, but it defintely was a dumb mistake. FWIW, Stoner's later comments on the incident have been more reasonable. I think he just needed some time to cool down. He seems to mainly be mad at the corner workers.

When Hayden was taken out by Pedrosa he didn't have any similar comments, and when Spies was taken out by Fabrizio he didn't either. IIRC, Spies just said that Fabrizio needed to ride smarter and save the risky passes for later in the race. The incidents with Hayden and Spies also happened much later in the season when the DNF was a much bigger deal for them. Stoner still has plenty of time to recover.

I'm pretty sure that the corner workers would have had to push Stoner up and over a hill into turn 2 to be able to get that Honda running again. Maybe a downside to their new transmission? Also, there was some concern that in doing that, he would be crossing directly into the race line

I am also english first, but I took the opposite impression - that it was sincere.  It could be your frame of reference for what you were thinking would happen, or maybe your environment (me in friendly midwest, you being west coast)?

i'm from texas.   ;D

...and what i was "thinking would happen" doesn't support your theory.   [thumbsup]

 [thumbsup]

the only thing i'd add is that rossi was originally intending to go wide on the outside, which would have lead to a very typical running wide scenario.  only, stoner heard someone coming and moved over a bit.  not a dick move amount, but enough to let them by.  but it was late enough that it ~forced rossi to the inside... where there wasn't enough time/room to scrub enough speed.  in the rain.

shit happens.

and even if stoner was totally being sarcastic (probably was), he gets to be in that instance.  he wasn't pissed at rossi as if he had swept the leg, but he did get tossed from the race.  he gets to be not totally happy about it.

you aren't supporting your argument  ;)

I've visited Texas a few times.....also decided not to stay

Poor #46 - I think he was so elated to finally get the bike to fly like the wind that he forgot about the puddles....

IIRC, when Elias took Rossi out in the same corner in '06, Rossi joked that perhaps next time, Elias would be kind enough to take out one of his rivals  :D.

Edit: found the quote:

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2011/Apr/110404versus.htm (http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2011/Apr/110404versus.htm)

[evil]  [evil]
 ;D  [thumbsup]

yes...

it...

is. ;)

I've been busy that last coupla days, and haven't followed the last 10 pages.  

Did something happen with Rossi and Stoner?!?   

;D

Yes. ;D

Also meant to post this yesterday.

http://www.cyclenews.com/articles/road-racing/2011/04/04/meeting-scheduled-for-rossi-stoner-incident (http://www.cyclenews.com/articles/road-racing/2011/04/04/meeting-scheduled-for-rossi-stoner-incident)

note that the hearing is re the marshals not the racers

Yet he still 'sounds' whiney.

HRC should pay for 1/2 of the marshalls for the rest of the season if they're going to run that gearbox. 

Or their riders need to keep the clutch pins that are needed for an easier push start duct taped to their leathers. ;D

(http://7mzdt.com/images/vrcs1.png)
(http://7mzdt.com/images/vrcs2.png)
(http://7mzdt.com/images/vrcs3.png)
(http://7mzdt.com/images/vrcs4.png)
(http://7mzdt.com/images/vrcs5.png)

I seem to recall that about a second after that last pic, there was only 1 marshal pushing.

just rewatched the beginning of the race...Simoncelli's move on Lorenzo was the exact same move in the exact same corner and then a couple corners later he made a similar block pass move on Stoner for to take the lead...then Rossi made a similar block pass manuever on Lorenzo on his way up charging towards Casey....

i think you're right however the cut that made it to the website magically doesn't have that.  they cut to a replay of the crash and then go back to simo.

btw, this caused me to re-watch the ben/pedro battle 2 laps later.  [thumbsup]

Stoner - Rossi Jerez 2011 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-Y_rLgkDB8#normal)

Anyway, what's happened, happened.

And Stoner has every right to be pissed, plus Stoner wouldn't have liked the circus that followed Rossi down to the HRC garage. He would have been grinding his teeth and counting to ten, I know I would have been if it was me. Did everyone expect him to get on his knees, beg forgiveness for getting in Rossi's way while gently cupping his balls? And with the race marshall incident, do you expect him to patiently wait for his turn for a push?

People on here are extremely harsh critics, and I'm not hiding the fact that I am wanting my countryman to win. It gets a little old with all the Stoner bashing.


Haters gonna hate.  ;D

I don't blame him at all for being pissed. Said that quite a while ago.

When he wins 7 or so titles he won't have to wait for a push....will he? [evil]

After Stoner had topped almost every lap of every test/qualifying for the season, could it be that maybe the marshals are human and wanted to help the "underdog" out since Repsol doesn't seem to need any help or luck so far?

mitt

 [laugh] Now that's just funny.

Screw it. Stoner said it best, it was just a racing accident. Really no harm, no foul. But the corner workers that are being singled out aren't experts at what the bikes need in a fall. They didn't "favor" Rossi. If they can get the tumbled bikes up and running great! How were those particular corner workers to know that several of them would be needed to light off the Honda? Afterall, Rossi kept the clutch in and his motor was still running. Wouldn't that be the guy you would normally get going first? The one that was still running? How were they to know that the Honda, with it's groovy high speed low drag tranny would need a 2-3 person bump start?? What, did Honda send a text to all the corner workers telling that they needed a group bump start? I don't think so. Much to do about nothing. Stoner, stop whining. [roll]

What? Did I miss something? ;D

They would of known because the make the beast with two backsing thing was not running, what GP 4 stroke GP bike starts with one person pushing up hill? Do you think Stoner should cop it on the chin, make the beast with two backs that, he wants to win the championship and you don't win by missing races.

I missed that.  ;)



You have good taste 'The Don', love the avatar.  [thumbsup]

Thanks S.W Only one team as you know.
I'm glad someone else is hear to fly the flag, I think I take the whole Stoner bashing a little to personally. But make the beast with two backs it, I'm sick of the rest of the world bashing the little battler from struggle street [laugh]

http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2011/FIM+will+review+the+incident+Stoner+Rossi (http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2011/FIM+will+review+the+incident+Stoner+Rossi)

He still lacks the endearing qualities that make people like him.  Its not his talent, its just the way he goes about handling media situations and the general public perception.  He had every right to be pissed, but unfortunately he comes out of it looking like the bad guy for one reason or the other, even though none of this was his fault.

Hell the announcers on the motogp feed said "get a camera crew down there, we want to see this" or something of that effect when they heard Rossi was on his way to Stoner's garage.  The media circus around Rossi is fed not only by him, but by everyone involved.  He's the rockstar, and there isn't anything you can do about it.

Your right about not handling the media well, it seems that Australian racers need to take a course in dealing with the media before they leave the country. Stoner, Doohan, Gardner, all had problems with the media and European crowds.
I read an article on Stoner not long ago and said something to the effect that all he wants to do is race and then go fishing or hunting and leave the spot lights to the Europeans.

Yeah, I read the same article. He was living in Monaco but just couldn't handle living there. It said that every spare moment he can get, he goes fishing or bow hunting at his??? Property in country NSW.

He is not a media darling, and as was said, a fair few Australian racers weren't either. They only want to race, not the BS that goes with it.

He's far more likable than say....Mladin, to me anyway.
Raw talent alone does not make for fans. Everyone knows Casey has as much or more of that than anyone on the grid.

Colin Edwards loves nothing better than to go to his ranch and shoot stuff up too. But he knows how to play to the media when it's time.

As far as Aussie racers of the past... I never heard Gardiner or Doohan say...

"This is something that riders who are against Valentino have had to learn to deal with. It's completely unfair,..."

or two sentences later...

"I just think it's completely unfair. There's not enough consistency in the marshalling all around the world. There's got to be consistency with everyone, not hampering someone's race just because of popularity."

Casey...you're right...it isn't fair. Do something about it besides whining.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/90428 (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/90428)

+1. I can't think of one sport in the world were officiating is completely fair.

...at least this aint FIFA

Don't get me started on FIFA.

It may have been the same "move"...but Rossi came from way back, meaning he was carrying too much speed into the corner (lkely more than the other passes you mentioned). That was my point, and why I don't think it was a typical "Duc front end" crash. The fact that you mentioned that Rossi successfully did it earlier demonstrates that his attemp on Stoner (even if it was accidental) was different.

...which is exactly what rossi has said

...and stoner "making room for him" took away his escape route.

perhaps....I wasn't there either but I think a marshall's first duty is to ensure safety (the rider's and their own, too) on the track.  Once they determine the riders aren't injured then they seem to get the urge to help...but afaik that's not their designated role.

Pic 1 - Rossi on ground and bike on Rossi.  Stoner's bike up with him on it.  Marshalls run to Rossi to make sure rider's not injured.  At that point he's all they're concentrating on.
Pic 2 - Rossi getting up and marshalls, who are still concentrating on Rossi, still concentrate on Rossi (human nature); Stoner on bike and feet on pegs (looking like he's ready to roll).
Pic 2.5 (not shown) - Rossi rides away and most marshall's start walking away while a few look towards Stoner; at that point (not any time earlier) Stoner starts frantically signalling for a push to get bike started
Pic 3 - Five marshalls head towards Stoner's bike.
Pic 3.5 (not shown) - One marshall stays with Stoner

For all we know he may have been yelling epithets at them while waving, in which case I would have walked away, too.  Besides, What sane marshall is going to hang around on the track and get hit by the next bike that hits Rossi's puddle...?


So, Stoner closed the door on purpose and paid the price... ?  [evil]

Both bad assumptions that are made suit your argument, and to make Stoner the bad guy for wanting to win.
I don't get the whole thing of wanting racing to be exciting, but then only wanting certain guys winning, ie the Ben and or Rossi.

You really believe that's what we all want?

I think Stoner's comment of 'heard him coming and left him room to pass on the inside' has been totally misconstrued.

Entering the corner, Rossi and Stoner got on the brakes about 8-10 feet from white line at the edge of the track.

As they continued braking, Stoner moved out to about 4 feet from the edge.
He was basically following on Simoncelli's line (Important point!).
Rossi was about 2 lengths behind Stoner, but about 2 feet inside of Stoner.

Braking continues, Stoner keeps moving out, about 2 feet from the edge.
Rossi is about a bike length behind, and about 4 feet inside of Stoner.

At tip-in, Stoner's about a foot from the edge of the track.
Rossi's a bit less than a length behind, but has moved out to maybe 3 feet inside of Stoner.

When Rossi's front wheel starts to overlap Stoner's rear, he's still about 3 feet inside.

When they're side by side, Rossi is still about 3 feet inside of Stoner.
Problem is... Stoner's on the racing line, which is fairly dry.
Rossi is on visibly wet and shiny pavement.

Stoner 'leaves him room' by not pinching his line down.

However, Rossi's on the wet pavement, loses the front, and cleans Stoner out.

From re-watching it a couple times, Rossi committed to the inside line long before Stoner made any move to 'leave him room'.

IMO.

NO IT'S OBVIOUSLY AN ANTI BEN ROSSI CONSPIRACY

wasn't he a prime minister somewhere?

http://www.google.com/search?q=ben+rossi (http://www.google.com/search?q=ben+rossi)   :)

Obviously not all, that would be a generalisation, but it does look like its heavily waited that way from where I'm standing. I guess in contrast if you go to the OZ monster site you see the other side of the coin, where most are pro Stoner, and Rossi is the villan. Bottom line it was a racing incident.

Not at all - I'm not suiting any point (I think it was Derby's, actually), just blurting out hypotheses based on the evidence....

But, as you(?) and that (other?) guy from Oz said earlier, Stoner is an excellent rider.  If he's excellent enough to protect the racing line and keep an opponent behind him then he's certainly capable of anticipating an approaching opponent and blocking that opponent's 'obvious' bailout route or forcing him to take a high-risk route to pass then the fact that the opponent slipped on the water, crashed in front of him, and caused him to crash is, therefore, partly his own fault.  Let's be clear, too, that Casey's no angel.  If his (according to others here) sarcastic comments to Rossi - when the latter came to the Honda paddock, his other comments re favoritism, etc., and his press/public record as a schmuck to past employers - are indicative of an inner-satan or prima donna selfishness, then I wouldn't think it unbelievable for him to try and make an opponent take himself out.

I'm not suggesting that Casey really is Tonya Harding or that Rossi really is Nancy Kerrigan....but that really did happen...  ;)

(http://www.necro-equine-sadism.com/beating-a-dead-horse.jpg)

Gran Premio Jerez 2011 Caida Rossi y Stoner (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYNe6VzhNo0#normal)

From this video it looks like they pushed Rossi just a little and the bike just went. They kept pushing Stoner a lot more than what they pushed Rossi.

thats gold [laugh] [clap]

I noticed that Abraham's Ducati seemed to bump-start easily too.  I was impressed, because I can't even push-start my Monster  :P.

Yea, and in real time, it was just a couple seconds difference in response time.   Nothing to complain about at all from the corner workers.


mitt

Priceless   ;D

Marshalls were falling all over the place trying to get Stoner going again!

PS - nice pic there of the Fosterized horse (died of a mystery illness?)...bet its name is Casey

From the angle Derby posted, I don't see any problems with how that was handled.  Stoner had his help, but number one his bike is a pregnant dog to start and number two you can't expect a gaggle of corner workers to run off down the track with you.  They did their jobs, bike didn't start, race over.

Who you calling that other guy? I'm Stinky! Don't forget it.

What's done is done, I vote to drop the subject, I'm really looking forward to the rest of the season.  :D




O'DOYLE RULES!  ;D

We will be complaining about this one half way through the season. By then Stoner will be hoisting the championship trophy. The combo of Stoner on the Honda will be super hard to beat unless Ducati finds a way to keep the bike shiny side up or Yamaha finds speed. Don't get me wrong, Whoreghey will be up there, but he has to pray for rain in every race.

I think this is officially the longest thread ever about a single race.

Personally, that means "good racing" to me.

 [popcorn]

I think Laguna in 2008 was longer.

Remind me again, which two riders was that controversy about?  [laugh]

my vote is for more rain races this year....it makes for just better overall racing in general!

Have to agree.

Or maybe they should just limit tires.  Something hard, like touring tires.  Just enough grip but not enough to make them invincible. 

Bernie, find another forum to promote your crazy ideas!

I usually marshal the race at laguna, and if I was that one dude pushing the Honda up hill that long, I would have a safety lecture waiting for me from the turn captain, when I returned.  Kudos to the get it done attitude, but there is no way you can keep pointed towards traffic and watch for other riders in that situation. 

The Speed coverage of the race made it look much more like a Rossi party.  He did get a better response, but that video shows there was initially a lot of help for Stoner.  No way would I be pushing the thing all the way up the hill after running through the gravel.  I'd be way out of steam. 

Maybe with Casey's win it or bin it riding Honda should think about adding a starter.   [laugh]

[laugh]

THaT... is freaking funny 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAA...

you are just jealous you can't drink any of the crazy kool-aid...LOL...J/K

 [thumbsup] The bike is fast enough as is. They could add a lightweight starter to it.

maybe not if the gearbox requires those two pins

Whahhhhh.....really weird Casey bits in this one

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2011/Apr/110414stoner.htm (http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2011/Apr/110414stoner.htm)

"Christian people ... not other people."  um, ok.

who was it that said...

when you find yourself in a hole...stop digging?

that's gonna be one of those things he just can't un-say.

indeed.

I wonder if that got him "the talk"

Is Japan a Christian-faith nation? hmmmm Stoner needs to remember who he's riding for.

he needs to not say shit like that, period.  it never goes well.

and in his version of dropping the issue, he even created an Us and Them distinction.  idiot.

I can understand where Stoner is coming from.  He just wants a little less favoritism from the field marshells.  But I wouldn't bring in religions into the conversation.  It would only end badly.  A classic foot-in-mouth moment...

I think there is a fair bit of Christianity, but I think there is far more shinto-ism there...just guessing though...

either way...bringing religion in with his foot-in-mouth disease is just "fail" to me....

I still think they should just duct tape the pins to the rider's leg in case they need them. ;D

Stoner just needs to stop whinning about the take down and the fact his bike won't start. It's getting kinda old. He keeps saying he wants to put it past him and move on but he doesn't act like he does. :P

I read it as sarcasm/joke that didn't translate well to print?  Either way, more proof that Casey is as media saavy as my toast. 

I keep attributing it to his age (22, 23?) but that can't last forever, unless he just doesn't care/want to learn how to fit in - 'cause there are a lot of years to live after the racing is over.

26 in October.  this kind of thing would be excusable if he was, say.. 6.

Jesus would forgive him.

[laugh]

 [laugh] [laugh]

He's my copilot and he would consider it.

a little less perceived favoritism...

if he'd kept his bike running instead of hitting the kill switch, this would be a non-issue.

Can't remember if this has been brought up in the 15 pages or not....

But imagine the shitstorm if the players were reversed.
The earth's axis would have tilted....

Thanks for clearing this all up for me, I've been confused all this time, thinking that Rossi taking out Stoner was the issue when it was Stoners problem for getting in the way of Rossi and then accidentally hitting his kill switch. Note to Stoner (because I know he reads the stuff) next time Rossi is any where near you get off the track, and keep your hands away from the kill switch [roll]

I love all the fanboys replies in this thread. Casey has already said various times that it was a racing incident. Hiting the killswitch was a safety thing, to save the engine just in case the bike was unrideable. From the videos posted you can see that the marshalls got Rossi going, most likely because the bike was already running and that they actually tried to get Stoner going. So this whole thing is sour apples from Casey and Val fueling the flames. For the fanboys on both sides.

Can we put that picture on a loop?


mitt

[laugh]

That nag is really starting to stink.....

Will this story ever come to an end?? Is MotoGP so lacking in interest these days that the press will not let the Rossi/Stoner interface die a respectable death and move on... like Stoner "says" he wants to. [bang] Ugh...

http://www.cyclenews.com/articles/road-racing/2011/04/28/stoner-relives-jerez-crash (http://www.cyclenews.com/articles/road-racing/2011/04/28/stoner-relives-jerez-crash)

but you see, writing about it again is still delivering ad impressions for cycle news...

http://superbikeplanet.com/2011/Apr/110429fim.htm (http://superbikeplanet.com/2011/Apr/110429fim.htm)