Ducati Monster Forum

Got my monster 620 out from mechanic shop after almost a year yesterday.  So good to have her back.

1st day of twisty ride.

3 riders. - 1 new to twisty (a good friend of mine from college days and he the last bike and is newb to twisty riding)

I am in middle.  He is  maintaining lots distance n we slow to let him catch up etc.  Good ride.  We not hitting very  hard as we r trying to see road conditions after winter.

Ride about 30 miles twisty.  Getting to the real fun.  Well we reach 555. There is a stop sign where it intersects. We were coming up to that intersection for r555 and if u r not paying attention, you will miss the stop sign from that angle.  Lead bike makes turn even hear the gravel.

I slow down at the intersection to make the turn.
Next thing I know, I am clipped by 3rd biker as I am turning.  Did half circle turn as go down.  Hit shoulder n helmet.  Got up in a bit was about to walk away angry but rushed n picked my monster as engine still running.  Thank God leg not caught or anything and bike is ok.

The clipper bike managed to hold on his bike.  he is lucky that a car didnt get him because he proceeded to pass the stop sign and the intersection.  There was a car on the left stop sign.  

First remark from rider is " u stop ".  My reply. Yeah it's a f'n stop 4 way sign for route 555.  I was like don't put the fault on me.  He apologize.  I kind of milked the rest of twisty ride stops for some refreshments n gas from him until he was sick of me lol

Bike report- speedy frame slider did it's job. Back brake bent.  Crg loose.  Nothing else.  Phew   What a relief.

Gear report. Shoe helmet did it's job. Forcefield back armour, not sure if hit my back but I didn't feel anything and nothing on the back of jacket.  Forcefield knees armor - didn't feel anything.  Dianese laguna seca jkt shoulder got hit n took the brunt and is not pristine anymore.  Darn it.


Lesson - maintain distance always (I do always always always) but then PAY F'n attention!!!!!  Pay attention to other riders !!!


Good day when u walk away from bike accident.

picked her up from mechanic Saturday ready for Ride on Sunday
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5110/5608242227_f6b6684fa0.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/35374145@N02/5608242227/)
2011-04-09 11-16-58 Trailer Bikes 1 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/35374145@N02/5608242227/#) by ab_duc620M2004 (http://www.flickr.com/people/35374145@N02/), on Flickr

Jacket - shoulder
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5185/5608822158_dd1397419b.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/35374145@N02/5608822158/)
2011-04-10 17-51-15 Bike Wreck - Clipped by Tewolde 6 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/35374145@N02/5608822158/#) by ab_duc620M2004 (http://www.flickr.com/people/35374145@N02/), on Flickr

Back brake bent
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5110/5608818078_c602ae3543.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/35374145@N02/5608818078/)
2011-04-10 17-48-18 Bike Wreck - Clipped by Tewolde 1 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/35374145@N02/5608818078/#) by ab_duc620M2004 (http://www.flickr.com/people/35374145@N02/), on Flickr

ab, 

 Sorry to hear about your mishap.

I know you like to ride in groups , but just another reason I don't.

You can do everything right , but someone else can screw things up.

Glad no real bad stuff happened , hope somebody learned a valuable lesson.

Hope no more bad things happen due to group riding.

Dolph      [moto]

Glad you are OK.  Did the person who clipped you offer to pay damages?  Inspect the slider to make sure the threaded rod isn't bent.

glad to hear you were cool about it. I would of went off on him about the stop sign being there until he admitted he was stupid.

but as DoubleEagle said, i dont like riding in groups, and if i do i prefer to be all the way in the back.

Thanks double eagle , Howie and he-man.  (posted some pics)

Double Eagle - I know what you mean about group riding.  It's just that i hate riding in front as I just dont push myself harder and am continuing practising.  I thought 3 was really a nice little ride.  Apparently that is a bit crowded.  We stopped large packs and try to minimize it to like 4 riders.  I am going to have to rethink it.  We usually break into different packs when in group.  fastest , fast , slow.

Howie - It was just a bit of scratch on the slider.  I will take picture tomorrow and inspect it.  As for offer to fix anything, forget about it.  Just a fake obligatory offer to pay up for possible damage wasn't even there.  

He-man - I got angry for a sec and was mad when he said "u stop" bla bla. I just don't appreciate the subtle implied notion by keep saying "you stop" which if you hear that, you think I f'd up.  Instead of starting the sentence "i messed up and clipped .."  You cant deal with personality like that normally.  

So after the wreck (is that considered a wreck), I didn't trust him behind me so I had him go in front of me , but noticed that he wasn't really good on the turns and passed him quickly.  I did not want to push him more than his ability and stress him out.  I could have just been a dick and stay behind him  ;D  and see him sweat trying to act good rider etc to prove he good etc  (it's that type of personality where he will push himself more than he can so as to not to look bad in front of others - especially me - childish if u ask me).  I, being a reasonable person, passed him and let him be behind so that he can ride his own ride.  I remember what it was like first time out there for me.


(Yes, it is safer to put riders that are new in front so that they wont damage you from behind like what happen now.  But honestly if we had done that, we would not have ridden any far.)

AB, sorry to hear about your little incident.

I am going to try not to be drawn on the argument of fault and the subsequent reactions ... because he is ultimately responsible. But maybe have a look at how things could have been better managed.

You said this guy was new to twisty riding, you said the stop sign is hard to spot from your approach ... and you had a guy behind you trying to keep up as it appears you didn't like being slowed down too much.

As he was new and you (apparently) knew of the stop sign ... perhaps some pre-warning could have avoided the issue. Before the ride, maybe something like ... 'as we approach such-and-such intersection I will slow right down very early so you know the hard-to-see stop sign is approaching.'

Of course I may have mis-interpreted your knowledge.

Betty - the fact that we are heading to this particular route was communicated.  we always point gravel etc to whoever is behind etc. normal ettiquette.  But in hind sight maybe brake check more or something around that area.  As for "not like being slowed down", nah I am not considered fast at all so that is really not the reason.  Rather, I can see that he didnt like being in middle since I insisted he be in middle (he was not up for front) after the little incident.  But quickly observed his riding and approach to turns etc and notice he trying more than his ability and probably feeling pressure that someone is watching all the mistakes from behind.  I am sure we all feel that sometimes.  Or maybe not.  But we always stop and wait for any rider at certain junctions.

===

I was thinking about this whole thing hard again (after a day).  the lead bike made the turn kind of quick cause the sign for the route came up quickly i think (lot quicker that we remembered eventhough we were not going fast).  I then slowed down to make that turn.  I was clipped as i was turning guessing 2mph or whatever since i made a semi circle going down whereas he went str8 & crossed the intersecton and managed to hold on his bike.  If i were full stop, then the clip would have been bump me forward. Or since the clip was on the right side, if I were dead stop, then bump me left.  Something like that.

I AM WRONG about the stop sign.  We had the right of way.  but it is the kind of turn you slow down and ck traffic.  It is not just another twist.  Rather its a turn to a new route.  

What i think happen is that he guns it hard to catch up on str8 etc and this sudden turn where u have to slow just came up to fast for him.   Thats my best guess.

Ultimately as we all agree, the bike behind needs to pay attention.

Here is a video of the spot but from another ride late November last year.  You be the judge.... 3:36  to about 4 ...(I am taping)

Clipped location. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fy8K0aRYuJ8#normal)

Bummer.  Watch the mirrors like a hawk when slowing, esp if you've got a noob/squid behind you.  Good thing it wasn't non-attentive cager, that'd hurt worse!

It won't help you now, but I like putting the new rider in front.  You then have his or her back and this kind of thing shouldn't happen.  I got my girlfriend (now wife) into riding this way.  I felt I could offer her some protection from behind.  Now that she is experienced we still ride this way.  I know of new riders that have gotten into trouble following more experience riders.  They don't have the skills in the corners or on the brakes. 

Yeah we could have put him in front or if larger pack broke it into differeNt level.  But this ride was relatively slow  [bow_down]ride to see the road conditions after winter (gravel, pot holes) scouting mission

We Also started it pretty late n no way we could have covered grounds.  Besides the 3rd bike joined half hour before were to take off.  Last minute thing.

No-matter. Lesson learned.  Still ok to take noob.  I was that few years ago in twisty so we all need encourage ppl that want hit twisty n practice.  Maybe give them head start ...

Your best bet is to make sure a new rider knows how to corner, stop, and not to target fixate before taking him out for a ride, not matter how challenging or easy.  A quick "emergency lane change" maneuver should be in any rider's bag of tricks, and it would have prevented this crash.  There's no excuse for running into the bike in front of you, unless you're following too close, but that doesn't sound like the case here.

There are 3-4 of us who have been riding together for many years...we know each other's skill levels, habits, communication style etc...and while we always welcome new riders to join us, we always have apprehension when they join.  We are very clear when we tell new riders, the number one rule...the rule which should never be violated...which should always be in our minds...rule numero uno (OK you get the point, right?)...

Your number one responsibility in a group ride is to NEVER, EVER, NEVER (extra NEVER added for even more emphasis:)) hit the person in front of you.

I, as a rider, have the right to react to an unexpected situation, and trust that I won't be hit from behind.  Sometimes, no matter how much one has anticipated what is in front of them, one must slam on the brakes in order to stay alive on a motorcycle.  If the guy ahead of me does that, it is my responsibility to ensure I don't hit him.

Rear-ending someone on a bike is always 100% the rear-enders (ha) fault.  Because, no matter their excuse, it can always be truthfully pointed out to them:  "You were following too close or you were riding too fast for that blind curve, etc..."

Now in this situation, the guy was a newbie.  Should he be cut some slack?  IMO...only if 1) he understood truly that it was his fault and has apologized, and 2) he learned his lesson, and now understands the numero uno rule of group riding.

Mike B

Outlaw1100 - the 1st law will be stressed going forward.

I am definitely going to rethink how we ride going forward in small packs.

I am still cool including new ppl to the twisty routes.  After all I was that at some point n every ride is a practise for me as well.  But I may have to either put them in front ahead or have them start late n wait at designated junctions.

The fact my dude hasn't bothered to ck next day or so to see how I am doing doesn't surprise me knowing his personality.  Therefore sincerity is questionable.  I personally would have checked n always do when ppl go down on this routes n trust me many have gone gown on this route.  I won't ever ride with my dude again anywhere n have expressed that despite h thinking I am over exaggerating.  My beef is that his very 1st reaction was to Blame me b4 admitting his mistake as usual.  Screw that.

[odrides]
hard to gauge new riders other than stay clear n watch them.  On many occasions new ppl that join in, majority have bailed out b4 the real ride begins.  They were smart to recognize if they r ready or not.  Many that went down (this r not new riders but r new to this road) were went down because trying to keep with lead biker way too close as if it's competition despite repeated warnings b4 the ride about the nature of the twisty.  Ppl r way too competitive for their own good.  The lesson ride your own ride does not sink in.

Glad to hear you're alright and ready to ride again!!!

I think this relates to motos.  I've spent my life doing what others call high risk outdoor activities.  In such activities it is the newbie that is at the greatest risk.  If a group takes on a newbie then it is the groups (or instructor if it is a class) responsibility to go at the pace of the slowest participant.  If that doesn't happen the newbie will fall behind, become exhausted in an attempt to keep up, and may die.  In the case of motos, it seems similar to me.  If the newbie is falling behind he or she will likely ride beyond their abilities in attempt to keep up.  Telling them to ride within their abilities and expecting them to do it is ignoring human nature.  Taking a newbie along comes with a responsibility to look after that person.   

Akmnsyr,

In that case I plead guilty.

The way I learned twisty was that the fast dudes went on ahead n waited for me Ay certain junctions.  Boy did they wait. 

I still ride my ride n will bail out if I am not feeling it or slow down.  It all depends.  Ppl need to really learn to respect the roads n not try beyond their capability.  That was and is still my policy n I stick to it.  Ego will land u in hospital unfortunately if u can't back it up.

I will keep on going back to twisty n practise.  Darn gas price now putting a damper on the fun.