Ducati Monster Forum

Moto Board => Tech => Topic started by: Düb Lüv on April 13, 2011, 05:50:42 AM

Title: Dual output coils for a single spark head
Post by: Düb Lüv on April 13, 2011, 05:50:42 AM
i saw an SS on ebay that had (2) dual outputs coils and had both wires going into a single spark plug per coil (non-DS bikes). i understand that producing a hotter spark would have a more efficient burn, but has anybody else know about using this set-up?
Title: Re: Dual output coils for a single spark head
Post by: Düb Lüv on April 13, 2011, 05:51:58 AM
here's the pretty sexy bike for a visual aid.


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130507568750&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130507568750&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT)
Title: Re: Dual output coils for a single spark head
Post by: Syscrush on April 13, 2011, 11:33:39 AM
Quote from: Düb Lüv on April 13, 2011, 05:50:42 AM
i understand that producing a hotter spark would have a more efficient burn,
It may or may not - it's a kind of contentious issue.
Title: Re: Dual output coils for a single spark head
Post by: ducatiz on April 13, 2011, 12:02:07 PM
That is a make the beast with two backsing sexy SS

A hotter spark may give you a tiny edge as it will ignite fuel slightly faster.  Compare tossing a match onto a pool of gasoline vs tossing a wood torch:  they both go to flame fast, but if you could see it, the torch would make it go a little faster, perhaps milliseconds.

A dual spark produces a larger flame front in the cylinder, a hotter spark using the same plug would burn the plug out faster.  Dual spark has a definite advantage.  Instead of a "hotter" spark, you have a "larger" spark and that allows for more fuel to be burnt. 

Personally, I don't see the advantage of a "single spark, dual coil" design.   It would be easy enough to implement on a race bike, and the fact that NO ONE uses it probably means there is no advantage.
Title: Re: Dual output coils for a single spark head
Post by: Raux on April 14, 2011, 08:21:01 AM
the one in the ebay listing had been converted to dual spark. so it had its heads modified to take the second spark plug. Ducati-kaemna does that as well.

Title: Re: Dual output coils for a single spark head
Post by: Düb Lüv on April 14, 2011, 08:33:40 AM
Quote from: Raux on April 14, 2011, 08:21:01 AM
the one in the ebay listing had been converted to dual spark. so it had its heads modified to take the second spark plug. Ducati-kaemna does that as well.



did you ask him? cause there's no plug wires on the clutch side unless they're hidden and what looks like 2 plug wires going into the vertical spark lug boot.
Title: Re: Dual output coils for a single spark head
Post by: Raux on April 14, 2011, 09:18:30 AM
well the listing says 'dual spark' so that's the only way to do it

this is from Kaeman.. probably why you can't see it

(http://www.kaemna.de/pic/katalog/795detail1.jpg)
Title: Re: Dual output coils for a single spark head
Post by: ducatiz on April 14, 2011, 09:36:09 AM
In the third photo, you can see TWO wires going to the vertical head spark plug.
(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/$%28KGrHqZ,%21loE2EvWzpy%21BNoj8wsUew%7E%7E_12.JPG)
Title: Re: Dual output coils for a single spark head
Post by: Raux on April 14, 2011, 09:48:39 AM
yeah saw that.
sending double the voltage to a single sparkplug hoping they hit at the same time?
Title: Re: Dual output coils for a single spark head
Post by: ducatiz on April 14, 2011, 10:36:23 AM
Most likely with a dual head coil it will spark at the same time.  I just question the efficacy of it.
Title: Re: Dual output coils for a single spark head
Post by: ducatiz on April 14, 2011, 11:51:27 AM
I emailed the seller,  here's his reply:

QuoteEach head has 2 plugs, 4 wires. You have to remove the lower and Carbon belt cover to see the other two.

So it's just a dual spark setup and the spark wires have TWO leads from each coil terminal.
Title: Re: Dual output coils for a single spark head
Post by: Raux on April 14, 2011, 01:09:43 PM
so it's just like the picture i put up from Kaemna.

each head has 4 wires? so he has 4 dual output coils?
Title: Re: Dual output coils for a single spark head
Post by: ducatiz on April 14, 2011, 01:53:38 PM
No just two coils.  Each coil terminal has 2 wires.
Title: Re: Dual output coils for a single spark head
Post by: Raux on April 14, 2011, 02:25:47 PM
yeah i figured... just hate when people write vague sentences.

"Each head has 2 plugs, 4 wires."
Title: Re: Dual output coils for a single spark head
Post by: koko64 on April 14, 2011, 03:55:54 PM
Gotta say, wish the factory did it that way instead of through the front of the timing belt cover, much tidier.

If I ever do this mod on my 900, I now know a cleaner way.

Nice SS.
Title: Re: Dual output coils for a single spark head
Post by: monsta on April 14, 2011, 05:06:30 PM
veetwo did plenty of dual spark setups as well..  when dyno'd it showed little difference in performance. So not really worth the cost.
I think ducati did it more for emmisions...
Title: Re: Dual output coils for a single spark head
Post by: Raux on April 14, 2011, 11:29:39 PM
Funny thing is I think the new Evo motor is back to single spark.
Title: Re: Dual output coils for a single spark head
Post by: koko64 on April 15, 2011, 01:45:59 AM
Very true.
Maybe more compression and better combustion chamber design lets them get away with one plug.
Title: Re: Dual output coils for a single spark head
Post by: ducatiz on April 15, 2011, 04:15:08 AM
Hard to have more than one plug on a 4 valver
Title: Re: Dual output coils for a single spark head
Post by: Raux on April 15, 2011, 05:35:38 AM
Quote from: ducatiz on April 15, 2011, 04:15:08 AM
Hard to have more than one plug on a 4 valver
2011 Ducati Monster 1100 Evo  = 2 valver ;)
Title: Re: Dual output coils for a single spark head
Post by: ducatiz on April 15, 2011, 06:02:59 AM
Ah. I was thinking of the 848 evo
Title: Re: Dual output coils for a single spark head
Post by: junior varsity on April 15, 2011, 09:36:13 AM
perhaps cost reduction for new 1100 evo motors