So, I have a strange issue with my new Monster 796, which was delivered with 0 miles on the clock. It appears as though part of the casting for the engine had significant flaws on the fins that went unnoticed at the factory until after it was painted. The solution appears to have been taking a file (or sandpaper) to the fins to remove the excess material, and the fins were not repainted after. I have circled the affected area in this pic. I'm sorry that it's difficult to see - this pic was taken when the bike was delivered and I was not aware of the issue at the time:
(http://toddbundy.com/M796_fins.jpg)
I'm not really concerned about how it looks, but I am worried that the exposed aluminum will oxidize over time. It is in a location that will be exposed to dirt and/or water on occasion. Should I pick up some gray high-temp paint and touch up the exposed metal?
Has anyone seen anything like this before on a new bike? It certainly makes it look hand-made. ;)
I will have to take a better, close-up pic when I have a chance, but the weather here sucks at the moment.
It's the new 'fly in the fiberglass'.
I've seen this, but only on my older bikes 60's/70's. You can visibly see sanding or tooling marks on the fins of the head. Sloppy castings I guess. I'll have to take a look at the heads on my Duc but I know on my older bikes, the heads weren't painted. Just raw alum. If your heads are painted and the factory sanded the paint off to make the repair, then just get some VHT or Duplicolor clear and give it a light coat to seal it from the elements.
Really?? This is acceptable to you?? How much did this bike just cost you and you're going to accept some shitty casting work on behalf of Ducati?? If it's just paint, OK, I guess you can finish the factory's job and paint it. But if the fins are actually thicker/show poor casting marks....
I guess maybe this shows how much of a cheap ass I am, but if I bought a new bike and the engine castings looked like that - clearly indicating a flaw, cosmetically or otherwise - there's no way in hell I'd be riding that one home. There's this thing called quality, and unfortunatley for Ducati, it's a pretty damn important thing with all the competition now adays. If their cylinder supplier can't get the fins right, how do we know the bore's true??
[popcorn]
Hey Chris. You are 110% right. I'm playing devils advocate here. If this was my bike and I had noticed that before leaving the dealership, then the dealership would be getting me a new bike. I wouldn't even want that fixed. I'd want a whole new bike. No sense in buying a brand new bike that would need to have the head replaced. However, I'll bet it would be a very very hard fought battle to get the dealership to make good on something like this. Especially after getting it home and noticing. Unless you have a very honorable, stand up dealership, chances they are going to blow you off or do some bullshit cosmetic bandaid fix. It sucks but its most likely going to be that way. I hope others have had better luck with dealerships.
Call the dealership. They should be embarassed beyond words that they let that bike go out the door.
Quote from: speedknot on April 19, 2011, 09:17:29 AM
Hey Chris. You are 110% right. I'm playing devils advocate here. If this was my bike and I had noticed that before leaving the dealership, then the dealership would be getting me a new bike. I wouldn't even want that fixed. I'd want a whole new bike. No sense in buying a brand new bike that would need to have the head replaced. However, I'll bet it would be a very very hard fought battle to get the dealership to make good on something like this. Especially after getting it home and noticing. Unless you have a very honorable, stand up dealership, chances they are going to blow you off or do some bullshit cosmetic bandaid fix. It sucks but its most likely going to be that way. I hope others have had better luck with dealerships.
Agreed. However, in today's world the one thing consumers have going for them is the internet. Does every person research something before they buy?? No. But my guess would be that most people dropping $10,000+ on a motorcycle do.
So, I would do everything in my power to make the dealership fix it. If they don't, I'd make every attempt to escalate the problem up to the district manager of that dealer. There's always that "what if" in life. If they don't cover it, then what?
Then you go to the internet, rag ducati all over the web about poor quality backed by this very comical photo. How that made it out of 1) the supplier's shop, 2) onto Ducati's engine assembly line, 3) into the motorcycle assembly line, 4) out of the plant and 5) considered acceptable by a factory trained tech that performed final assembly is almost laughable. I'd then rag the dealer as well....it's not slander, it's simply telling future customers that when you purchase a new bike from Ducati/this dealer, it's considered "OK" for it to be improperly painted, protected from corrosion, and possibly have parts that have been poorly cast. Not really something Ducati probably wants out there for the world to see [thumbsup]
Hopefully it won't have to get to that point. I'd call the dealer, tell them about the issue, and take it from there. Good luck!
Unfortunately, while I had test ridden a 796 some months before the purchase, I did not see the actual bike before taking delivery. I had spoken to the dealer, who made me an amazing deal on a brand new 'old' 796 (before Ducati decided to make ABS standard - apparently it was one of only two non-ABS models left in the country), and the bike had to be shipped in from a warehouse somewhere, before being quickly prepped and delivered to me at the beginning of December. I rode it for a whole 6 kilometers before storing it for the winter (we received our first major snowfall literally the day after the bike was delivered). I did examine the bike fairly closely, but I didn't pay close enough attention to the engine fins, apparently. It's really not noticeable from a distance, and I only ended up noticing it while wiping some dirt from the front exhaust header. I have seen casting 'issues' on the fins of other Ducatis, but I have never seen any where it appears that excess material was filed off (let alone filed off without being repainted). Given the tolerances in any modern engine, it did not even occur to me that there could be excess material on the cylinder walls, but I suppose that is possible. If this was done at the factory, and the bore is incorrect, there is no guarantee that the next bike would be any better. Indeed, a bike with perfect fins would be just as likely to have a bore issue as one with ugly fins, since there are all made on (I believe) the same line in the same factory. I would rather have a perfect running bike with a few ugly fins than a cosmetically perfect bike with reliability issues (not that I can know whether or not this bike will be reliable, long term, but I have no leaks thus far ;)).
I do plan on mentioning it to the dealer, but I doubt a new bike is remotely possible. I'm just trying to be realistic, given that the bike was delivered over four months ago. Best case scenario, they take the bike and engine apart, re-paint the head, and re-assemble the engine and bike. Any time an engine is taken apart and re-assembled there is a greater chance something will leak, break, or who-knows-what, I figured I might just be better off touching up the affected area myself. Let's just say I have had issues 'temping fate' in the past and, while trying to resolve issues with other vehicles, ended up with more of a problem than I was originally trying to have resolved.
I just took some close-up pics. Though the light source could be better, you can get a better idea what I am talking about. Even from this close, it is difficult to see the issue from the side, though there is very little paint on the edge of the top four fins.:
(http://toddbundy.com/M796_fins2.jpg)
It is easier to see from the top of the fins, and particularly, from below:
(http://toddbundy.com/M796_fins3.jpg)
(http://toddbundy.com/M796_fins4.jpg)
Quote from: Bishamon on April 19, 2011, 03:05:24 PM
Given the tolerances in any modern engine, it did not even occur to me that there could be excess material on the cylinder walls, but I suppose that is possible. If this was done at the factory, and the bore is incorrect, there is no guarantee that the next bike would be any better. Indeed, a bike with perfect fins would be just as likely to have a bore issue as one with ugly fins, since there are all made on (I believe) the same line in the same factory. I would rather have a perfect running bike with a few ugly fins than a cosmetically perfect bike with reliability issues (not that I can know whether or not this bike will be reliable, long term, but I have no leaks thus far ;)).
I do plan on mentioning it to the dealer, but I doubt a new bike is remotely possible. I'm just trying to be realistic, given that the bike was delivered over four months ago. Best case scenario, they take the bike and engine apart, re-paint the head, and re-assemble the engine and bike. Any time an engine is taken apart and re-assembled there is a greater chance something will leak, break, or who-knows-what, I figured I might just be better off touching up the affected area myself. Let's just say I have had issues 'temping fate' in the past and, while trying to resolve issues with other vehicles, ended up with more of a problem than I was originally trying to have resolved.
Two things...
1) The cylinder is cast, then it goes into a finishing process where the bore is honed...there's more to it then that, but my point in bringing it up was that if the supplier doesn't have their paint process under control, who's to say their boring/honing process is under control? There's probably not excess material on the cylinder walls...if anything it would be out of round (causing a compression leak/excessive piston/ring wear) or have poor cross hatching angles (same issues as being out of round). Likely? No. Possible? Yes.
2) I do see your point. If the bike has any type of substantial mileage on it right now, that's probably the best you'll get - a new cylinder that'll have to be reinstalled. If you're happy with the bike, then that's all that matters - I probably wouldn't go through all the hassle/headache/open up the can of worms either.
So, on that note, get yourself some good VHT paint - they'll likely have color matched for the engine, pull the belt cover, tape the exhust off and everything else you don't want to hit, and paint it....it'll cost you 30 bucks at most and half a day's time. Good luck!
I touched up the paint on the offending area yesterday, and it looks quite good. I found a VHT flame-proof header paint that matched the color pretty well, and I just used a brush to avoid having it spray where it wasn't wanted. I even tried to follow the instructions as closely as possible: Three coats within 60 minutes, 10 minutes between coats, allow to dry for 60 mins, let bike idle for 10 mins, cool down for 20 mins, let idle for 20 mins (I actually went on a 20 minute ride - I just couldn't let the bike idle for 20 mins), then allow to cool before going for a 30 minute ride to complete the curing process.
The end result is a smooth finish that has the same level of gloss (or lack of gloss) as the stock paint, and is ever-so-slightly lighter in color. How it will stand the test of time remains to be seen.
looks like bullshit to me [thumbsdown]10k or better does not look like that new >:(