I need a fairly easy measurement, in millimeters (accuracy would be very much appreciated) from a Hypermotard 1100. I believe there would be no difference in this measurement between the 1100DS and the 1100evo power plants (but I'm most interested in the 1100evo).
I need a straight-line measurement from the motor's rear engine/frame mount to the swingarm pivot.
(Using the center of the engine-mount stud to center of the swingarm pivot shaft as the start/finish points).
Pretty pretty pretty please.
I'd be happy to help you, when I can get the bike back out of the hole it's in now.
I've got a full on resto-rebuild/swap going on a E30 BMW at the moment, and the damn garage is VERY tight. Hate working on cars.....I can have 4 bikes going at once for each car (space wise).
CURSES!
I think you know why I want this measurement. I can't readily tell whether the pivot hole is at the top of the ellipse or at the bottom of the ellipse. (Fingers crossed for bottom of the ellipse). If its "low", then I have "a Bingo", if not - its back to the drawing board, investigating how easy it would be to "move the hole" or using a different (cheaper) 1100, and some heavier 996/998/749/999 crankcases...
I hope you can hear me sighing all the way over in Georgia right now.
It's not low on the hyper/multi 1100 motor...
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/TheoAftonomos/2V%20SBK/DSC_0419.jpg)
I have a set of blank "pucks" that will be cutout so the pivot will work without boring the case. I'm sure I can have a second set made just as easy....
Stock 999 cases are at the bottom. WSBK motors have oval'd cases and the "pucks" are chosen to set the height of the swingarm pivot.
Stock "pucks"
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/TheoAftonomos/2V%20SBK/DSC_0420.jpg)
Problem is my frame isn't a 999, it's 748-998. So there is no fancy puck thingamabob or large frame opening.
I'm considering whether it is possible to machine the pivot hole in the cases to be in the right spot. In doing so, I'd end up with a big oval hole as you describe in the cases
So then the question is, if possible to make hole oval, is it a good ideahether it is good to ride it that way - swingarm pinched between frame and engine, pivot held stable in X direction by sides of oval case hole and fixed position frame hole, pivot held stable in Y direction by fixed position frame hole alone.
I think I'll move this to Tech.
If its possible to bore ('move') the pivot-hole location on an EVO case, I may look into that.
I'm not sure:
(a) if there is enough 'meat', and
(b) not sure how well it would work to have the pivot unrestrained in the cases because of the oversized hole.
From reading your post, I am guessing that's exactly how the engine/pivot would be in the cases on the WSBK motors in the 999 era, and I am not planning on putting near that kind of power to the ground, nor riding near to that level, but the frame is different in the pivot location and perhaps the frame is also reinforced to make it 'work' without issue.
I thought that if it was possible to do the machine work, and have an "oval" shaped hole in the case, perhaps I should get a rod CNC'd to an upside-down "U" shape to fill in the vacant area - fitting the curve of the top of the oval, side walls of the oval, and the 'face' of the pivot area - leaving only the appropriate sized hole remaining...
Here's the bottom pivot area on the 748-998 frame:
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_4iYlZ1m8UEM/Ta76kIuTaYI/AAAAAAAAGsQ/ULxowHxy-R0/s800/Ducati%20996%20Frame%202.JPG) (https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_4iYlZ1m8UEM/Ta76kUBQfsI/AAAAAAAAGsM/bIou2FxzaXk/s800/Ducati%20996%20Frame%201.JPG)
Here's the normal 748-916-996-998 Engine detail at that area:
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_4iYlZ1m8UEM/Ta76w8qu79I/AAAAAAAAGq8/GoeZUr6NtEQ/s800/748%20%28Bip%29%20Crankcase%20Swingarm%20Pivot%20detail.jpg)
And here's the Hyper 1100 Engine - DS & Evo:
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_4iYlZ1m8UEM/Ta76w2gjFTI/AAAAAAAAGsE/u6Xa4nRP7gc/s800/Hyper%201100DS%20engine%20RH%20in%20Studio.jpg) (https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_4iYlZ1m8UEM/Ta76xG_UJKI/AAAAAAAAGsI/BU7ExfsN0A4/s800/Hyper%201100evo%20SP%20engine%20RH%20in%20Studio.jpg)
My other thoughts are, back out and go the cheaper route:
Get 996/998/749/999 empty crankcases which would bolt right up. And, from my reading of Brad's article, have the same cylinder-stud spacing as the 1000DS (which I believe is the same as the 1100DS/1100evo - need to verify).
That would let me grab a less expensive M1100 or MTS1100 motor, and move the innards into the SBK cases. The only question then, is whether a 71.5mm stroke crank from an 1100 will fit in the 996-998-749-999 cases.
Bummer therein is that I lose the 'good' parts that are 1100evo specific, like lighter crankcases, etc. Perhaps I still "yahtzee" on the lightweight crank if it DOES fit, but I'm not certain - I assume it might be possible if I snatched up a late M1100 motor. (I think the lighter crank is really do more to the flywheel part, which I'd be looking at going to a machined down version or a Nichols/DP one anyhoo)
If the EVO cases couldn't be machined or made to work doing some straightforward things, and the 71.5mm crank would NOT fit in those particular SBK cases, I might still try to do the 1100 cylinders, but with the 68mm crank - making a shorter stroke big bore 1000 something or other, with the new era heads and such. That has to work out to be some sort of complicated ass, hurdle-filled project. (probably get angry and decide to use an 848 motor at that point - of course, that would depend on the dang pivot location again!)
My thoughts are sell your 998 frame and get a XX9 one. Seems to be a bunch easier than boring the cases.
Then again, if you are set on building a frankenmotor, boring the case is just one more step (and simple once you mark it).
I don't think there is a problem with the ovaled case hole....the SBK arms have the bearings in them, and the pivot is located by the frame.
I'd have to see how the 749-999 frame would work with all the other stuff I've got that's 748-998 before moving in that route. I was/am pretty dead set on the 748-998 era bodywork (mine won't be a naked 2v SBK - hoping for it to look almost 'normal' with a 2V hidden within)
I'm seeing a distance between those two points on my frame of around 105-7mm, center-to-center.
Not sure what those measurements come out to be on the 1100's, and if there will be some overlap (I assume so) in the high/low hole placement. I need to get the measurement on the 1100 (and diameter at some point) and see if there's enough room available on those evo cases to have it machined.
Since I'm planning on splitting the cases for lightening/balancing crank for rods/pistons, I don't have any qualms for splitting them for machine work - if such could be done.
I just quickly measured my m1100. Does 95.5 sound about right?
I don't have any precision tools just a tape.
It does, but not completely solved yet because I'm not sure the M1100 has the hole in the same location as the Hyper:
if I recall correctly the M1100 has the bearings in the crankcases and thus the wider cases as well as the higher mount. The Hyper has the bearings in the swingarm, and so a narrower crankcase - since the width is different, I do not know if the hole placement is also different. (I guess I'm trying to see if there happens to be a "third" hole placement besides the high-hole 2v Monsters like I have in the garage, and the low-hole 748-916-996-998-749-999 superbikes - I don't know the placement of the 848-1098-1198-SF either yet)