Ducati Monster Forum

Hey,  I've got an 07 S4R with 2100kms and a full termi kit with DP ecu and i'm getting maybe 60 miles a tank (100kms for us Canadians ;D)  Has any one else had problems like this?  The mechanic here is kind of stumped so any advice where to look would be great.

Thanks

CO trim and TPS set correctly?

I know a guy that had the similar set up on an ST3 and was getting similar results.

A complete set up brought his mileage up to 35mpg.

My S4RS with full system and ecu/airbox mods gets about 31 on the highway and about 29 in town. Low fuel light usually comes on at around 70 miles. That's the way it is. It runs great and sounds awesome. I wouldn't worry to much about it.

I dont have an S4R, but here is the biggie quesiton. Where do you ride, how do you ride? how many miles?
I have an S2R1k, i bought it with 4,400 miles and was getting about 75 miles to the tank. 80% city stop go lane split. i was only getting about 100 miles to the tank on the highway. did my 6k (minus valves) and the bike was getting about 80miles to the tank. I started shutting of my engine at lights and got 90miles to the tank then just about 200 miles ago, all of a suddden im getting about 100 miles to the tank city, almost 130 highway. Im not sure if it was the oil/fluid change or hte bike finnaly broke itself in.

I do a lot of hard accelerations, occasional wheelies, alot of light to light sprints, and alot of revving at lights  ;D and when lane splitting.
By tank, i mean until htel ight turns on, which is a 2.5 gallon fill up for me.

that's 70 miles though,  I'm getting 70-80 kms which is about 35-40 miles before my low fuel light comes on.  It's going into the shop right away though and hopefully it'll come out a bit better.  It seems that no matter how i drive it I get the same shitty mileage,  i rode it like i stole it for a tank and then babied it for the next and it didn't change.   

My S4RS now has 17,500 k's on it with DP ECU and full Arrow system. I get 120 klms a tank city riding but on long country rides I can get up to 180 klms before the light flicks on - I have not yet managed to get 200 klms out of it but maybe one day (when I get a bigger tank  [laugh] [laugh] [laugh])

Seriously if you check the DML (RIP) you will find many threads on this. It is a bummer but high performance means shit milage.... [cheeky]

you should be able to get good economy out of one of these engines, even working it hard.  it will drop around town, but tuned properly it should still get much more than that.

i'd say it's a fuel mapping issue - just too rich, bad main to offset relationship, too lean in the idle area causing them to be set too rich by dealers doing it the "right" way, too rich in the cruise area, poor set up on the bike used to develop the mapping, etc (there's lots of possibles here) - or lack of spark advance issue.  the mv brutale 750 use a heap of fuel and it's predominately a spark map issue.

try winding the air bleeds out a half or full turn or having the idle mixture set to 2% CO.  might help.

Hummmm .... not good; somethings off; hows about a power commander with the termis?  Thats a guess; theres more knowledgeable one here that I.

I started a thread on gas milage just for this reason; so simple but so telling; I do know that somethings out mising or you need a through diagnostic .... termis are recommended for Duci's so the dealership should be able to help; thread below ...

post the fix when you get it; it an intresting problem-o.  Cheers D

Post: tec; Re: gas miage pool & question: ....yes there is many factors the effect MPG preformance; but generally it already looks like theres a range of between 35-45 MPG.  Milage is a good starting point to identify the mechanical heallth of an engine.  Below someone identified that a valve adjustment can make a significant difference in milage.  Keep em comming, I'll try to do a summary in a week or 2.

+1

I'd love to see one of these badly behaved bikes do a set of dyno runs including A/F ratios at 5, 10, 20, 40, 60, and 100% throttle so we can see exactly what's going on there...

big

Here is my Dyno of the 07 S4RT.

The RED is with the Zards & Standard ECU.

The BLUE is the Zards, DP ECU & Open Airbox.......

Power increased and smoothed out and sucking more fuel......

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3067/2583207019_2dd5507292.jpg?v=0)

Your CO must be set too high. Mine was setup at the dealer after install and it was still too rich. Mileage was low and the bike was a bit chuggy down low and on tip-in. I had them reset it and drop the CO .5% and the mileage came back. I still wasn't happy with the throttle response (yeah I'm picky) so I added a PCIII and dyno'd it. P E R F E C T!!  [drink] Not to mention the addition of 6 ponies and 8 ft lbs of torque...  [evil]

Sounds really low to me. I have an S4Rs w/ the full Termi Exhaust ,DP ECU, Open Airbox and 14T Front Sproket and I ride it hard in the hills. I usually get at least low 30s mpg .Don't know about Highway since I don't hardly ever ride any Highways.

Ugh, geting frustrated  [bang]  I called a dealer in another province here that apparently is renowned for motorcycle tuning and the guy said to me, I quote.  "Yeah, well if that's how much gas your bike uses, that's just how much gas it's going to use.  There is nothing we can really change."  For make the beast with two backs sakes, just useless.  I even explained to him there are other guys in my area with the exact same bike who are getting double the mileage I am and still nothing.

Thanks for all the suggestions though,  I've been at my dealership here and hopefully they try a few of them.

For what it's worth....

I just did a road trip this last weekend from Portland to Seattle, mix of backroads and slab. I go about 235lbs fully geared and got about 38 MPG on avg on my '07 S4Rs with a 14t sprocket, Spark exhaust, DP ECU, chopped air box and K&n. Spent a lot of time around 80 - 85mph on the freeway riding like a normal civilized person and keeping with the flow of traffic.
Duc Seattle tuned it and she's got 0% ridabilty issues, no chugging, poppin, nothing. Just 998cc of buttery smooth goodness.

SO i figured it out.  I'm getting 12 MPG.  12!!!!   I'm not bloody happy with this.  Probably going into the dealer tomorrow, but thanks for all the input from you guys,  I'll pass along the suggestions.

Same here, at least 35 mi. per gallon - which I thought wasn't so good until now.

Bro-in-law's KTM950 SM gets the same.

LA

I read below that you got 60 miles out of your tank - Is that correct? How much fuel did you put in afterwards? I would guess a max of 3 gallons - That means you are actually getting about 20 miles per gallon. 12 MPG is only 36 miles on a tank and that would be really bad  [bang] (I know the literature says the tank is about 3.5 gallons (13.5 litres) but in reality you can only squeeze in about 3 gallons or maybe a touch more (11.75 litres for me).

I get about 120 klms out of a tank city riding with 15T front and 45T rear and about 190k's country riding (again don't know aboyt highways as I don't use them either.

That means I get about 25-28 MPG for city riding and 38-40 MPG country riding.

There is definately something wrong with your setup somewhere that needs fixing. The milage I get is silimar to that of many other S4RS's around here in Aust but also the same as many listed on teh old DML.

Good luck getting you bike sorted and put your name down for a new larger capacity tank for Chris at ca-cycleworks.com.

R_usty

I guess I should correct it, 12-15 MPG in the city and 20 MPG max on the highway.  Either way, that's not right.  The dealer is ordering me a new ECU in an effort to fix the problem.  I'm doubtful though, considering I've been getting this mileage since day 1 when the bike was completely stock and the termi's with the DP ECU has done nothing but make it stall less.

If they can't fix it after this ECU swap, it's going back to them and i'm picking an '06 999 that has been sitting there for a couple years.  Honestly, I kind of hope the ECU doesn't fix the problem, I should have picked up a SBK in the first place.

Gus,

is there an authorised Dynojet outlet near you?

The power commander and individual cylinder map sounds good - had a fellow member tell me about it yesterday and he gets magnificent mileage from a very high performance machine (S4r, full termi, ecu)

I wish!   We've got nothing here that could install that for me.  Once a year a chopper dealer here brings in a trailered dyno.  He tells you you're horsepower and a/f mixture, doesn't do any tuning.  That's all we have and it was a while ago.

I'm willing to bet the new ECU will fix the problem. Good luck.

LA

The reason I doubt it is because I had the exact same problems with the stock ECU before the termi upgrade.  I just find it unlikely I went through 2 buggered up ECUs consecutively.  I guess we'll see though, if this doesn't do it, it's gone.

does your dealer have the ability to check air fuel ratios?
do they have a gas analyzer?

Not slamming them in any way but this should be a straight forward problem. The bike is too rich,why? A failing ECU can go to full rich. A faulty TPS can cause a bike to be too rich. Any of the fuel trim sensors can richen the mixture. Have these all been ruled out? If the problem did not change when you added the dp ecu you can probably rule that out. They should be able to use the DDS and a gas analyzer or dyno that reads CO and figure this out. If not wait until your 999 stalls at every stop.
good luck

I agree, it should be straight forward and have a cause/solution for every problem.  That's why I'm getting frustrated though because I've had it in there a handful of times and nothing is changing for the better.  They say it doesn't seem to have any of the usual signs that the engine is getting too much gas.

Just to see if they are capable of reading CO or air fuel next time ask them what your air/fuel ratios are or at least CO levels. If they do not have the capabilities to read these you may want to find a place that can.

Gus,

Dood, where do you live? Like other responders have said, the diagnostics required to isolate your problem are very straight forward, if the shop has the standard Ducati  factory tools and mechanics that are trained to use them. If not, Ducati should not allow them it sell the product - Counter productive for them to do so.

Don't abandon one of the "best" motorcycles ever sold the public because the dealership is incapable, inept, or pick another word that suits  you better.

You should be able to get at least 35 mpg.

How far do you have to go to get to another "real" Ducati shop? [bang] [bang] [bang]

LA

I've got about 500 miles to the next dealer,  It's a renowned one though,  so I'm going to speak to Ducati about getting it to Sportcycle for a complete tune.  We'll see though, the dealership hasn't been accomodating so far.  I've also written a letter to DNA today.  We'll see how it goes.

I get only about 30 wheelies per gallon.   [bang]

Seriously though, my last tank averaged about 25 mpg.  Not good, but I was hotdoggin' it a lot.  I have had about 30 mpg; not so great either.  Oh, and I have the full Termi kit with DP ECU on an 07 S4RS.

I bought a Cortech Sport Tail bag and a little gas can for long trips.

Yeah, that's horrible gas mileage.  Something should be done to fix it.  I can't believe somebody would say that was alright mileage.  I have no tech info to give, but keep at them.  This is Ducati for cheese sake, they should be all over this! 

fyi, my Duc gets 40mpg in town.  It's the S2R1k though.

Quick update



Well I emailed DNA and explained to them about the lack of support from the dealer here, I then went into the dealership and told the owner I'd contacted DNA and I wanted this bike fixed now.  This actually got them moving instead of just saying "hmmm, and the other bikes get better gas mileage. and they are the same year and everything, well I dunno." 

They've got the new ECU on the way and also new throttle bodies now.  Both of these will be replaced and the bike will be hooked up to their computer that checks out the bike.   Hopefully this sorts out the bugs with the bike.

That sounds encouraging. Outside of the T Bodies and ECU the only other thing I can think of is way high fuel pressure. Have em check the pressure/regulator too.

Good luck getting this fixed and keep us posted.

LA

good thought on fuel pressure. make sure the fuel lines were not reversed at some point. You would have too high a pressure and run rich.