Ducati Monster Forum

Just wanted to share some pics and info with everyone. I will update as the bike is completed.

I started with a base model US 998. Mostly stock, 2002.

(http://i1204.photobucket.com/albums/bb408/lofty55/IMAG0141.jpg)

On to the upgrades:

The Stock Crank is being cleaned up lightened and balanced. PCIII is also gonna get installed.

Purchased a full 54mm system from FBF for $2,118.08 shipped. This is the photo from their website but i think they are sil moto.

(http://i1204.photobucket.com/albums/bb408/lofty55/29_large.jpg)

Picked up some 999 four pad calipers from a friend for $350

(http://i1204.photobucket.com/albums/bb408/lofty55/imagejpeg_2_12.jpg)

Some Pistal pistons from AMS in Dallas for $671.74 shipped. They recently changed the price to $895.00 so i really lucked out!

(http://i1204.photobucket.com/albums/bb408/lofty55/25r20a0000-2.jpg)

Carrillo Rods to go with the pistals, $529.03 shipped from APE race parts

(http://i1204.photobucket.com/albums/bb408/lofty55/carrillo.jpg)

Nichols lightweight flywheel straight from Nichols for $229.91 shipped

(http://i1204.photobucket.com/albums/bb408/lofty55/NFLYFI3P.jpg)

Picked up a DP slipper clutch with basket and all from ebay for $520.00 shipped. Came off a 1098R at 600 miles. Seller even threw in a madduc open cover.

(http://i1204.photobucket.com/albums/bb408/lofty55/Slipper1.jpg)

Cast mag wheels from ducatista

(http://i1204.photobucket.com/albums/bb408/lofty55/wheels.jpg)

posting current photos of the bike in the next post, stand by...

(http://i1204.photobucket.com/albums/bb408/lofty55/imagejpeg_3_3.jpg)

(http://i1204.photobucket.com/albums/bb408/lofty55/imagejpeg_2_10.jpg)

(http://i1204.photobucket.com/albums/bb408/lofty55/imagejpeg_3.jpg)

(http://i1204.photobucket.com/albums/bb408/lofty55/imagejpeg_3_4.jpg)

(http://i1204.photobucket.com/albums/bb408/lofty55/imagejpeg_2_9.jpg)

(http://i1204.photobucket.com/albums/bb408/lofty55/imagejpeg_2_8.jpg)

(http://i1204.photobucket.com/albums/bb408/lofty55/imagejpeg_3_2.jpg)

(http://i1204.photobucket.com/albums/bb408/lofty55/imagejpeg_2_6.jpg)






OP  |
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so i got my 998 a few months ago and its pretty much stock. Im looking to do some mods and had a couple questions....

It has carbon termis, Slip ons im pretty sure but is there an easy way to tell? On my monster its easy to spot a full system because of the udder....

Im thinking about doing some performance upgrades and would love to here some dos and dont's.

Anyone have any experience with ecu, intake options, mid pipe for my slip ons, or any engine work? I wanna get some more ponies out of this thing.

Im coming up on my 12k service so if they are diggin into the engine anyway, im gonna do some shit.

thanks guys and gals

-tom

lightweight flywheel  ;)

Lots can be done...how fat is your wallet?

I'll get up on my soapbox for a moment, and recommend you spend money on suspension upgrades and/or lighter wheels before hoppin' up the motor.

998s are fuel injected.

I would think that lightweight wheels, Ohlins cartridges in forks, Ohlins out back would be money better spent than engine mods beyond an ECU and airbox upgrade. Keep your 998 reliable and just be sure the valves are done right and the cams are dialed.

Interesting things i have found since my OP. Lots of variants of the 998.


Im starting to agree....

Pistal high comp pistons are not really for a daily driver. I couldnt find any info on cam or crank options.

The exhaust i have is either the 45mm slip ons or the termi 45/50 half system. Any full system on a US basic 998 requires custom work.


Ohlins are out back and showa in front. Gonna rock that for now. Had the wheels painted black, not in a hurry to replace them.

So you guys are right, looks like im in the market for an ecu and intake upgrade. Ill have to find out if my ecu had any work when the termis went on. Im also looking at a drop in slipper clutch. Prolly snag one of those as well.

A 10 to 15 horse power gain is all im lookin for..... we will see.

 [wine]Never. sbks have been fuelies since the first # in the model was an 8.

Not really.    



The Showas are the normal stock, and harsh.  Revalve them at a minimum and while doing so put in fresh fork oil - that's no more than around 300 in parts and a huge difference.   And if you want performance, skipping wheels for anything else is a huge mistake! (Learned that first-hand...)   That would easily account for the 10-15 hp you are looking for, while making the bike easier to turn, and being a substantial brake upgrade.   Doing something else instead of wheels would be a bad move for overall riding pleasure and wouldn't be dropping your laptimes at the track by as much - doing something else in addition to lightweight wheels would be totally understandable (but one would want to do the wheels first because afterwards, they may not think another dollar need be spent on that part).


Don't know where you heard that but my experience has been to the contrary. The only "downside" I can think of is the higher price - but they are a better design than the cheaper pistons with the more rigid box-in-box design (and can be ordered up with skirt coatings applied).  Pistal Pistons are great for a daily driver - the box will frequently be marked "Pistal Pistons 1000DS HC" for example - with HC denoting "high compression" and typically a bore size is given to tell you if its a direct drop in for the OEM bore, or if its bigger.  The ones that are "not" for a daily driver are marked "HHC". High-High Compression - with much higher domes.  There's no reason either couldn't be used in a daily driver,  though the HHC setup would require quite a bit more tuning and high test gas (if not race fuel).   If anything, its not the Pistal pistons that would make it a poor daily driver, its the '998' that makes it a bad daily driver - its the last of the superbikes with extreme, race-oriented ergos before rider positioned move more towards the 'middle' ground with the 999.

Some background reading to catch you up to speed:

And for cams and other 998 goodies, there's plenty out there to look at.  Heck, go download an older ducati performance catalog for the direct fit 998 parts.   There is no such thing as "crank options" particular to a bike. It has a crank in it, you remove it and balance it for the change in weight when upgrading rods & pistons - while its out you have the choice of lightening it, knife-edging it, SPS-shape lightening it, and polishing it - none are necessary, but are relatively inexpensive when the motor is out.

Sidebar:  If you are really, really interested in big 'fun' on a 998 - PM me and I can give you some details on a local bike, its had the full treatment done to it inside and out, and then some, etc.  You'll also really want to give Jeff Nash a call (214-466-6540) when you are ready to pull the trigger on some things as he has the experience with these 916-998 S/SP/SPS/R/RS era bikes that is hard to match - its the bread-n-butter by which he was able to get things going - both on the racetrack and as a business.  You'll want to talk to Jeff OR Jordan about the particular bike they've done all the work to that I can only give some general details on

If you were that interested in the motor's performance, there's not a lot of price difference between the net prices of upgrading pistons / rods  and balancing the crank and upgrading pistons / rods and balancing/lightening/knife-edge/polishing the crank.    

A good set of rods - Carillo for example, are around $675, Pistal Pistons MSRP for around $800-1,000 and are regularly had on sale for between $600-800.  The crank-balancing shop often wants the pistons/rods to measure for optimum balancing, and you may well be able to get them to install the rods while its there. While that's out for work and everything is dismantled, you could go through the heads and make sure everything is in good shape - a port/polish, recut valve seats, examine valve guides, put in some Ti valves, etc.   And when you are reassembling, put the big volume airbox in with larger air runners and the appropriate front fairing to get the additional flow - there's another cool 2 grand gone.   Upgrade the injectors and bell mouths, more money.

But for all this work for a moderate gain in HP, you're looking at 'thousands' easily spent - exceeding the cost of the bike - and lots of down time for this kind of work. Motor is removed from frame, everything pulled off of it, crankcases are split, everything is done, then its reassembled.   If you ever decide you do not want the bike, none of this work is separable for the sale, either.  so its back to wheels wheels wheels wheels wheels - With wheels, you get a huge benefit in acceleration - like motor work provides, but also substantially better handling from the reduced inertia - the bike is easier to turn.  What's crazier still, is the benefits continue: With a lighter weight wheel, the suspension is able to react faster - allowing it to work more efficiently - the damping settings you choose are the primary factor in controlling the movement rather than battling against the inertia of a heavy wheel at the end of the swingarm or forks - its the reduction in unsprung weight that makes a substantial change.  And just like the faster acceleration available through lightweight wheels, the lighter wheels are also easier to slow - like upgrading your brakes for free!   And if you are rocking the normal goldline-style calipers - or even the 4-pads - compared to current production radials and monoblocks, a free brake upgrade is very nice!  


No?
(https://ssl026.lighthousehosting.com/FerracciSSL/store/images/products/29_large.jpg)

http://www.ferracci.com/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=29 (http://www.ferracci.com/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=29)
And I believe MotoCorse certainly does have something for you, as does HPE, special ordered Sil Moto, and I'm not sure that a 996R/998R exhaust system wouldn't fit.


In sum:    its not cost efficient to do anything to the guts of the motor for 10-15hp. If you like the sound of the half-system - which is "free" because its already on the bike - don't go spending money on duplicative parts like a full system (yet).  If the bike has the heavy cast wheels on it, toss those things into the back of the garage ASAP and find some forged aluminum wheels - take offs from the Hypermotard show up on eBay and that would provide an opportunity to upgrade the rotors to Brembo HP at the same time (5-bolt, 10mm offset - 996R/998R).  Or, spend a little more and get a lot more with cast or forged magnesium wheels (again - show up on eBay kind of frequently for the older superbikes - or are available new) or BST's.   That much of money invested in wheels is separable from the bike down the road if you want to sell.  

Then revalving the forks for modest money would be a noticeable improvement.  From their you could decide whether anything even needed 'doing' to the motor - and whether that be a full system for big dollars, the improved airbox/air-runner setups, a Corse-style crankcase breather setup, or mega-dollar internal motor work - you could do that step.   But that only makes it go faster in a straight line - wheels do that, make it brake quicker, and both wheels and revalved forks make it go around turns faster - something a motor cannot do.

wait.. so the 749 i am looking at has carbs??   [evil]

absahlootely.

i think a better cutoff would have been "every sbk since the desmoquattro was rolled out.."

but i am nitpicky...pick pick pick..

boy, that ecu setup on the 851.. (whistle).. man, i hate even thinking about it...  sort of like the one on the 1968 VW Type 3.  Phew..

just cuz you had to replace the internal hamster every few months didn't make it a bad setup.  the fact that the original oregon trail game made it look low-tech... well that maybe did it.

do you know how rare bolognan hamsters are nowadays?  are you for real?  geebus, and try finding one that doesn't pass out when it gets a little wet...

if you get gerbils from cypress and pull the tails off, they are supposed to work almost as good.

i never heard that but i assumed richard gere bought them all up

i was more worried about 92 octane pump gas. i dont want to carry octane booster with me everywhere. If i can use the 100mm flat top pistals on 92 then i totally will. 13.8:1 comp seems like too much for pump gas....? response?


I was referring to the deep vs shallow sump engines. So yea a couple variants of the same bike. US vs UK models vs 998r models. Exhaust options get tricky because of the sump.


JV THANKS A TON!!!! I def have some more reading to do and will undoubtedly have more questions.

Im a thousand miles from a 12k service. The idea is to buy all the parts i want between now and then so my mech can install them.

The exhausts for a deep sump will work on shallow sump motors (998's) but not vice-versa

Everything ive read on doing this required some custom work. Cutting the pipes, and part of the fairing. the 50 mm full system for the 998r (deep) is not quite a direct fit on the US 998 (shallow) as far as i know. I still havent checked out the info that JV gave me but i will tonight.

Do you have any info to back up your claim....? Have you or someone you know done it?

The "R" is the "large testastretta" setup - cyl stud spacing is different I believe and that may affect the port placement, not sure at all. Wouldn't be very difficult or expensive to have a muffler shop get it 'right' for you I wouldn't think though.

JV what say you on high comp pistons? No way they will run on 92 pump gas right?

i think that is largely dependent on tune in addition to what compression ratio your pistons turn out to be.

848evo has 13.2:1 compression from the factory.

Had a Termi 54mm deep sump system on my Blondie- seen in my avatar- (unfortunately sold her). The difference is in the bends from the horizontal cylinder to go around the sump extension.... which is not an issue if you have a shallow sump Testa motor. I have no idea why someone would have to trim/cut the actual exhaust... I just had to trim the bottom of my fairing a tad which was no biggie

I have 54mm Arrows on my SPS and had to trim/clearance the rear of my fairing a tad also

right on,

i found out today that i have the 45mm slip ons..... now im torn if i should try to get a DP spec ecu with new intake for the 45mm or replace it with a full system 50mm.

so after reading into all of this more, wheels wheels wheels

yes. if it doesn't break the bank - bst's or forged magnesium

yea they are not cheap but in my situation i think it is money better spent.

The difference is substantial - much more than I expected. Its not about "can you flop the bike over for this turn" but rather "well, now that I'm leaned way the hell over, perhaps a scoootch that way would have been even better"

I need wheels and a slipper clutch IMMEDIATELY! Thats what im spending some cash on.

ok guys so i sent some emails about some used wheels. we will see who responds....

Now im looking at drop in slipper clutches in the 600 range. Motowheels and ducabike make a drop in. One is a 5 spring and the other a 6. Whats your take on these things?

updates check first post