Brand-new bike, I thought everything was great and was having a fantastic time.
Unfortunately I'm having some difficulty starting the bike about 50% of the time. Key On, hear the fuel injector, ignition switch to 'on' and press the starter. Engine will turn once or twice but not start.
A few minutes later after some frustration I'll get lucky and it will catch.
I can't figure out any rhyme or reason for this, not changing my routine or doing anything different (that I can tell) as part of the procedure. This has happened after the bike has been off overnight, after riding for an hour and trying to restart to head home after a break, etc.
First occurrence was a few days ago, got caught in the rain while out and had a good 30 min of rain driving, couldn't get it restarted after a brief stop at the gas station.
I hope I'm just doing something silly and there is nothing wrong with the bike... any ideas?
I'm sure it's something electrical and you COULD chase it down... BUT you paid for a warranty, put the dealership to work.
Unfortunately the dealership is three hours away. I need to look into specifics, if my local shop can get credited by Ducati then it should be all good.
It's just extremely frustrating hearing the engine turn and not catch on a brand-new bike.
Is the starter spinning at normal speed? Battery fully charged?
Everything 'sounds' normal, as in there's no audible difference between when it catches and when it doesn't.
Looks to be full charge, and does not sound struggling like when trying to turn over a weak car battery.
Quote from: Artful on May 09, 2011, 10:58:31 AM
I'm sure it's something electrical and you COULD chase it down... BUT you paid for a warranty, put the dealership to work.
+1 worth the trip
does the 796 use the stepper motor of the 1100 or the idle speed lever of the 696?
if the latter, try pulling the lever down at least half way on all starts.
if the former, dealer
Check/clean the connectors at the battery....Unfortunatley I think that's not easy to do on the 696/796/1100...
Check/clean the engine grounds.
Quote from: TakeItEasyMon on May 09, 2011, 10:57:11 AM
Brand-new bike, I thought everything was great and was having a fantastic time.
Unfortunately I'm having some difficulty starting the bike about 50% of the time. Key On, hear the fuel injector, ignition switch to 'on' and press the starter. Engine will turn once or twice but not start.
A few minutes later after some frustration I'll get lucky and it will catch.
I can't figure out any rhyme or reason for this, not changing my routine or doing anything different (that I can tell) as part of the procedure. This has happened after the bike has been off overnight, after riding for an hour and trying to restart to head home after a break, etc.
First occurrence was a few days ago, got caught in the rain while out and had a good 30 min of rain driving, couldn't get it restarted after a brief stop at the gas station.
I hope I'm just doing something silly and there is nothing wrong with the bike... any ideas?
If you search around on the net or even through this forum you will see that it was a common issue for people with both 696/1100's in the first 1000kms/600miles roughly.
I personally had this annoying issue but it was very intermittent at first.... The issue went away for me around the 1000km service mark and others who have had this issue seem to agree as well.
Recently however which may shed some further light I had a new issue. The bike was on about 4000-4500kms. I had an issue intermittently where when I put my kick stand down the gear indicator on the dash would disappear and as such I could not start the bike e.g. bike thinking it was in gear. To rectify this I would then shake the bike slightly and gear indicator would show back on the dash and I could then start the bike and away I went. I took this to the dealer who replaced the stand sensor (as you would think that was the issue) however it was NOT. I then took it back and after speaking to the mechanic himself it was found to be a connector in the middle/right hand side of the bike.... once replaced I never had the issue again...... [thumbsup]
After this however I came to ponder if my original starting issues was this connector possibly on its way out/faulty from the beginning? Food for thought anyways.
The 796 does not have the fast idle lever.
My 2010 696 with almost 5k miles is a pregnant dog to start too, especially if there is a temperature swing of 20 degrees. I have a feeling that this is just a symptom of the ecu used since it's seems so rampant.
Goo luck!
My '09 1100 was really bad about this for awhile. I usually did it after sitting at least 8 hours. It would always crank normally, and would fire just enough to keep my interest and thumb on the starter, but would crank and crank but not actually run. I found that if it didn't start right away, I would turn off the ignition key and count to 12. Turn the key on and try again and would always start right away. I took it to my dealer once, and talked with them several times, but could not find a problem or duplicate my complaint. All this was up until about 7500 miles. At that time I adjusted the valves (one exhaust was a little loose), tensioned the belts, new spark plugs, and a new Shorai battery (OEM seemed to be fine, I just wanted a lighter one). Since all of that (about 1500 miles) it's done it to me only once. It was a very common problem before. It does crank over more quickly now. I never had any battery complaints before, so I don't know if that had anything to do with it, but the cranking speed increase is noticeable. It also has the DP ecu and termi slip ons on since about 500 miles.
I guess what I'm saying is "Good Luck!"
mine does not fire right away anymore, i think its an issue with the battery, as when i leave it on the trickle charger overnight, it fires right up in the morning, but if i leave it for more than a few days(for shame as it has been raining) it doesnt want to start for like 30 seconds or so, i usually wait until the startup sequence on the display has completed and is in the odometer screen before i crank it, it cranks, but doesnt kick over, but once in a while it does, then i crack the throttle a little while cranking and it sputters for a second, im going to take it back to the dealer maybe next week when it warms up a little
Last post is a solution that Ducati has had for the 696. If it doesn't fire right away, turn key off and wait about 10-15 secs. What is happening is the ECU is remembering what the bike was at when key off last time and its trying to start with the old values, engine temp, air temp etc. By turning key off it's learning the new info and changing all the parameter to current and letting the bike start correctly.
One other possible explaination is the newer style monsters use adaptive values for the ecu info, so if the bike was run with low quality gas, possible before you bought it, and these values were not reset on PDI at your dealership they could be causing issues too.
If your taking your bike back to the dealer for 600 mile service, ask them to reset these values when they shut off your service light.
Quote from: ductech31 on May 09, 2011, 09:22:33 PM
Last post is a solution that Ducati has had for the 696. If it doesn't fire right away, turn key off and wait about 10-15 secs. What is happening is the ECU is remembering what the bike was at when key off last time and its trying to start with the old values, engine temp, air temp etc. By turning key off it's learning the new info and changing all the parameter to current and letting the bike start correctly.
One other possible explaination is the newer style monsters use adaptive values for the ecu info, so if the bike was run with low quality gas, possible before you bought it, and these values were not reset on PDI at your dealership they could be causing issues too.
If your taking your bike back to the dealer for 600 mile service, ask them to reset these values when they shut off your service light.
Thanks for all of your suggestions!
I'm still on that first tank of gas so that might be a possibility.
Turning back off after failed start and letting it sit for 10-15 seconds before i try again seems to work after a few attempts.
When i get to 600 m service will definitely bring up the ecu to my local mechanic...
In the meantime mate just put key in then turn on and let it scroll the entire screen first then once its done that push and hold the starter in slightly longer , I found that helped heaps as not waiting too long and pushing the button too quickly would almost always cause the problem too....
I'm having a similar problem I have 13.5 volts and never drops below 13.0 volts...push starter button and starter cranks hard, with quick ignition firing but I only get 3-4 ignition bursts, bendix kicks back and bike fails to start
Repeating this begins to flood engine. Almost acts like it could be the exhaust valve and the bike is not choking the engine during startup.
I have swapped battery to 16 volt lithium with 480 cranking amps and I have also changed all wires to moto electric Hicap wires...
Anyone else ever had this problem and how was it fixed...happens frequently and takes approximately 30 mins to start...usually fires every time, but I just get 3 to 4 quick ignition fires. Other times it fires immediately
Thoughts I had was solenoid, starter, starter switch or exhaust valve
If the bike cranks well it is not a battery starter problem. There is no Bendix drive on your starter, over run is taken care of with a sprag. 16 volt battery for a 12 volt system with a charging rate of 13.5 to 14.5 volts ??? Do you expect components like lights and electronics to be happy? New 796? Get that 16 volt battery out and get the bike to a dealer to have it repaired under warranty!
Quote from: douglasc10 on September 27, 2013, 09:05:53 PM
I'm having a similar problem I have 13.5 volts and never drops below 13.0 volts...push starter button and starter cranks hard, with quick ignition firing but I only get 3-4 ignition bursts, bendix kicks back and bike fails to start
Repeating this begins to flood engine. Almost acts like it could be the exhaust valve and the bike is not choking the engine during startup.
I have swapped battery to 16 volt lithium with 480 cranking amps and I have also changed all wires to moto electric Hicap wires...
Anyone else ever had this problem and how was it fixed...happens frequently and takes approximately 30 mins to start...usually fires every time, but I just get 3 to 4 quick ignition fires. Other times it fires immediately
Thoughts I had was solenoid, starter, starter switch or exhaust valve
Mine does this 30% of the time. Dealer has never found a fault and data from my ECU has been sent to DNA. On mine only happens after it sits for more than a day. I'm fairly sure the issue is in the ECU software and part of the starting protocol. If it fails to catch almost immediately on the first go-round, it disables something.
Long ago on another forum I found a suggestion from an 1100S owner which has worked ever since. Don't wear out your starter even though it may catch on the 15th attempt. 8) After the initial aborted start, walk away from it for FIVE minutes. Try again, wait until the mileage scrolls up, then hit and hold the starter button. So far this workaround has never failed, touch wood!
Get back to us.
I've been lucky with mine and had no problems, other than a couple of things mentioned separately in some of the replies. When I first had the bike new I found I had to let the scroll complete to avoid any issues. I still always do that. I also had only a couple of instances where the kick stand safety played up in the first few days but after that no problems. Seems like in so many things, everyone's mileage varies :(
Try swapping fuel filter and cold start relays ...filter is about $30 and the relays are $6 each and take two..this fixed my problems
Quote from: douglasc10 on November 02, 2013, 09:47:42 PM
Try swapping fuel filter and cold start relays ...filter is about $30 and the relays are $6 each and take two..this fixed my problems
On a
NEW 796?! ??? What bike is that?!
My 2014 796 does this too. I would say about 10% of the time. Normally when its been sitting for awhile, although its happened a couple times right after I've been riding it. I took it to the dealer twice and like everyone else they couldn't replicate. DNA was involved and they flashed the ECU with the latest updates and replaced the starter ground cable. Still does it every so often. I've noticed if i crank it a little longer it will start. And its also started right up and died and one time i had it warming up for a couple minutes and it just died.
I don't know very much about bikes since this is my first one but it sure seems like a ECU issue.
The dealer basically told me its Ducati being Ducati. Which i didn't really care for that answer but what can i do. i have a little over 1000 mi on it and it seemed to be not happening as often.
MOV 0076 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BtlN9aScRY#)
If you are bored, read my thread here. 8) http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=52923.0 (http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=52923.0)
I'm fairly sure your issue is similar to mine whereas the OP here might have a crank position issue. Pretty sure the issue is Siemens / software-related.
See what happens if you walk away from the bike for five minutes when it fails to start the first time when cold after leaving it for a day or two. Let us know if it starts right up! My hunch, it's a cold start protocol thing.
Quote from: Curmudgeon on January 03, 2014, 09:48:25 AM
If you are bored, read my thread here. 8) http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=52923.0 (http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=52923.0)
I'm fairly sure your issue is similar to mine whereas the OP here might have a crank position issue. Pretty sure the issue is Siemens / software-related.
See what happens if you walk away from the bike for five minutes when it fails to start the first time when cold after leaving it for a day or two. Let us know if it starts right up! My hunch, it's a cold start protocol thing.
I read that thread right after i posted on this one. :) I'll give it a try since i know it will happen again.
The service manager told me that Ducati said for me to turn it off and on (without starting) 3 times and then try starting it again. Said it resets ECU(is this true?) anyway that didn't seem to help. But I'll wait the 5 minutes next time and post results.
Quote from: Canga on January 03, 2014, 11:17:31 AM
I read that thread right after i posted on this one. :) I'll give it a try since i know it will happen again.
The service manager told me that Ducati said for me to turn it off and on (without starting) 3 times and then try starting it again. Said it resets ECU(is this true?) anyway that didn't seem to help. But I'll wait the 5 minutes next time and post results.
The three on-off cycles resets the TPS on Siemens bikes. Since I believe the issue is software/cold start protocol, the TPS reset is unlikely to help. That five minute trick came off an old M1100S thread on another forum but appears to apply to 796 as well. That's FIVE minutes though..., not TWO. 8) Pointless to just sit there cranking the thing and loading it up.
Before my warranty expired, I had my dealer download my ECU data in case it ever decides to crap out some day. An engineer in Bologna "might" be able to rewrite something to correct this without screwing up the emissions..., or not... Fairly unlikely for DNA to create a fix because I doubt they have a software engineer sitting at a desk...