Ducati Monster Forum

OMG - I have had drivers throw their drinks when pass them at the twisty , flip the fingers at us , and had a lady in the city slam her brakes on purpose coz the bike infront of her was going to slow, but NEVER have I seen a car intentionally try to run over a biker like this.   WTF !!!!  make the beast with two backstard !
Pickup driver tries to kill motorcyclist. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbTZkZTYkaM#normal)

lotsa discussion about it here:

http://forums.13x.com/showthread.php?t=287246 (http://forums.13x.com/showthread.php?t=287246)

the rider shooting the video comments starting here:

http://forums.13x.com/showthread.php?p=3554243#post3554243 (http://forums.13x.com/showthread.php?p=3554243#post3554243)

(but don't short yourself the whole conversation...  ;D )

So what heppened? Did the driver of the pickup get arrested?

answer is here:

So we don't know -  how disappointing

i guess you missed #13.

They said they left before the cops showed up.

and #9?

Missed that one.  ;D
Call me when something exciting happens - like an arrest  [thumbsup]

<Boomhower voice>...."whoo eeee, dang ol' crotch rocket, man...man i tell you whut, dang ol' boy come 'round me goin' vroom vroom ain't gonna happen boy, i tell you whut. i knock a pot knot on the side'a yo' head big enough for a calf to suck on. dadgum."

That was all I needed. ;D

Guy needs to be put down.

pass on double yellow vs. Attempted vehicular manslaughter

I think the rider wins every time.

I would NOT have been so calm if I saw the guy get out with a tire iron.

bottom line

everyone in that video is an asshole

i told you guys there were gems in the thread.  ;D

Wow...sorry but trying to kill someone with a truck because they committed the crime of PASSING you?.....,that is beyond justification at any level

his crowbar vs. 2 bikers with helmets...a helmet can seriously make the beast with two backs up a person when applied properly...2 helmets could have turned Mr. Redneck's empty skull into a pudding...which would have been a community service

Except the bikers.  

You must not ride the twisty and never passed a slow car to say that.  

I would expect such remarks from a cager or a noob.

I hope the driver of the pickup is in jail.  Keeping fingers crossed.

damn....


a quick pass leads to a 7 minute chase with the pickup drifting a couple of corners.
pass might have been illegal, biker could have hit the brakes and dropped back in behind, no excuse for attempting to hit someone with your vehicle though.
i do think that jackhole in the truck was looking for a fight anyways cause of previous experience with them dang crotch rockets.

why not just get a description of the bikes and call the cops. explain that they just made an illegal pass and are speeding. if you can get a plate number then good. i will admit i have done this a few times when cars were all over the road and narrowly avoiding hitting others.

going to the link at the beginning of this thread to the other board you would be surprised at the number of riders who felt the bike rider "brought it on himself"

Law enforcement on the roads is the exclusive franchise of well... law enforcement....call it in

I see so many "self-deputized" assholes on the NY Metro area roads...some are baiting for confrontation, some are just good-old self-righteous shit bags

Of course as they smugly block tailgaters and speeders .......they somehow magically already know that the car behind them doesn't have a medical emergency...

isn't headed for an Emergency  Room with a severed artery in that car, or a woman with an almost newborn's head poking out of her...nope they know it all.....

I am in favor of a law that makes it reckless endangerment to not yield to the tailgater or speeder...I don't care if you are "Going The Speed Limit" or 20 over...if he's on your ass get out of the way...you are putting everyone around you at risk

because speeders for whatever reasons in their insanity or desperation can trigger accidents around them trying to get past the asshole

I believe Mr. Self-Righteous Know-It-All should be held accountable for his/her share in roadway stupidity

Billy-Bob snaggle-tooth needs an ass-kicking....



IF you plan to confront, be prepared to get to work...... and never let an asshole return to his vehicle once things start to get ugly....  he just might arm himself... as done in the vid.

I have to say that I agree with Jacob - both the driver of that truck and the rider who crossed the double yellow, along with the guy chasing the truck were all in the wrong. There are obviously different levels of wrong - but without reading in detail on the links included in this thread, I could see all of the parties in that video being cited for one thing or another.

After a min or so, the front biker was so far out of sight that there was no need for the biker in the back to chase the truck. That was like waving the red flag to the bull and all it did was encourage the driver of the truck to drive more aggressively.

Frankly, after seeing how much the guy driving the truck did to endanger on coming traffic (A-hole), I was frankly shocked that he didn't try and brake check the biker behind hims sooner than at the very end when he arrived at the stop sign...I really think that the biker was lucky.

...but regardless, as I said, there was no need to give chase.

1st bad move: Passing on a double yellow
2nd bad move: truck driver crossed the double in attempted manslaughter
3rd bad move: rear biker gave chase to the truck driver.

For better or worse, it was all on video - incriminating all of them.

You can NOT ride on the road like you can on the track. Why don't people understand that.

All kinds of stupid on that video.

Vehicular manslaughter is a ridiculous reaction to being passed. But like Dave said, the first guy was gone the minute after the pass. He had video evidence. He could have parked his ass and called the cops. If the guy really wanted to kill a biker, he could have taken out those guys that were coming in the opposite direction. He was going after the guy that passed him. Idiot redneck that should be put in jail, then I would charge the trailing guy for inciting the douchebag.


Really? News to me. I know we like to defend what most of us do often, it doesn't make it right just because we're not caught doing it. Said it once, will say it 1000 times, take it to the track where there are no psycho rednecks trying to kill you with their pickup trucks.

Definitely the highlight of the thread!  [laugh]

I'm not sure some of you watched the same video I did.

Yes, a pass was attempted on a double yellow line. But depends on the state and in many cases is legal...
Vermount for example: "Major highways are marked with yellow center lines which serve two purposes....the lines show if you should or should not pass. If there is a solid line or two solid lines, it is recommended that you do not pass. If there is a solid line but a broken line in your lane, you may pass if it is clear ahead. If there is a solid line in your lane but a broken line in the other lane, you should not pass, but the motor vehicle in the other lane may pass."

The lines are showing areas that may be unsafe to pass. double for unsafe, but if conditions apply can be used.

In the end, the road condition of the first pass would have made the pass whether it was safe and thereby legal, the discretion of the police officer and then court. BUT the actions of the truck driver clearly show intent to assault and potentially kill the passer.

AND the second rider having been separated from the first was in his right to continue to pursue his friend, not the driver of the truck... and I'm sure was not going to attempt to pass the truck to keep up the search and ensure his friends safety.
I do not think the truck driver was attempting to flee or in any way pushed by the bike behind him. It was obvious he was chasing the first rider.

The driver of the truck went over the double yellow in several unsafe, blind curves AND did make an attempt to take out the oncoming bikes.

The riders at the stop... were lucky IMO that the driver didn't pull a shotgun though. I would have gone around got the first rider, and beat it to the police with camera in hand, and probably truck in two chasing to prove the point.

There comes a time to stop illegal action when we feel someone is in imminent danger... I personally would not be a bystander if I saw someone getting hurt (bike riders in this case by documenting). But traffic enforcement... yeah not the time to be a vigilante(truck driver in his head).

As far as rules for passing versus allowing passing etc. On a two lane (both going the same direction) the right lane is the legal lane to be in. the left for passing... come to Europe and you will see the importance of that.
And yes they do give tickets for sitting in the left. AND for passing on the right. Also, it is your requirement under law to ensure the left is clear behind you BEFORE attempting to pass. This is the same on 2 lane roads (2 directions). you can't just pull out and pass without ensuring someone isn't passing you.

In KY:

(https://driversed.com/courseware/images/4lane.jpg)

MARKINGS: COLORS, PATTERNS, MEANING

              DO NOT PASS

When there are double solid yellow lines.

(https://driversed.com/courseware/images/Double_yellow_crossing1.jpg)

ROAD MARKINGS: CROSSING A SOLID DOUBLE YELLOW LINE TO TURN LEFT

It's okay to cross a double yellow line to turn left. YOU CANNOT cross a double yellow line to pass another vehicle.

I would also think that if the driver wanted to kill the guy, he would have just run over him while he was stopped at the sign. To take nothing away from the driver, he's still a psycho, but again, no redneck psychos on the track.

I love when a law makes no sense.
Either you can cross it or you can't

There should be a break in the double yellow for legal left turns

Takes more effort and cost to stripe like that and keep it current. A lot cheaper to edit a line of text

Our local Ducati group posted this on their facebook page...pretty scary stuff!


Pickup driver tries to kill motorcyclist. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbTZkZTYkaM#normal)

Simple enough. No passing on the double yellow, ever. Turning left is not passing. I do think that turning left like that is a bit dangerous, especially for a biker.

http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=49401.0 (http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=49401.0)

Sorry for the derby (should have seached)...mod please remove this post thx!

I'd much rather he was under the wheels of a bus somewhere, world is a better place without people like that and I don't like the thought of tax payer money supporting him in his cage.

The rider stated in his post that where he was, in certain situations passing on a double yellow was legal.  He also stated that the cops didn't care about that.

So calling the bikers assholes without taking the 30 seconds to click a link and actually become slightly informed about the situation, great idea.

Wow.  Just, wow.

This wouldn't hit so close to home if I hadn't witnessed similar incidents on several occasions, myself.  I have never seen anyone prosecuted for attempted anything in a situation like this, though.

I sincerely hope this piece of shit found some jail time, but I realistically doubt he did.  For some reason the authorities are not generally willing to prosecute these impulsive, murderous criminals.

The one that sticks out most vividly for me was when Tim Simpson and I were riding Georgia 52 between Fort Mountain and Ellijay.  It was raining pretty hard and we were moving at a pretty sedate pace.  A HUGE pickup, jacked up with 5' tall tires on it, pulled out in front of us even though he obviously saw we were approaching, at a distance where we both had to brake to avoid hitting him.  He then proceded east (as we did) and we followed him.  You might imagine that this POS truck slung crap out of its fender wells (he had obviously been out "mudding") and threw a rooster tail 75 yards behind the truck. We waited until we found a safe place to pass, though it was on a double yellow, and passed.  I passed safely but when Tim tried to get his DB2 past the truck, the driver tried to put him in the ditch, similar to this video.  We continued on toward Ellijay, not wanting to provoke this redneck further.

The idiot had the audacity to call the police, who were waiting in Ellijay and motioned us over.  The officer had just begun his lecture when the redneck pulled up, jumped from his truck, and yelled "That's them.  That's the two what passed me on a double yellow".  Simpson then retorted "Yep.  That's true.  Write me a ticket for passing on a double yellow, then arrest this piece of shit for attempted murder for trying to put me in the ditch."  That's when the fancy redneck dancing began, but the officer just told us to go on, as no harm was done.  Yeah....right.

Maybe having the episode recorded will help matters.  I sure hope so.

My 19 years riding motorcycles entitles me to my opinion

I took several minutes watching the entire video and reading the entire thread

My opinion remains

Everyone was at fault in that situation

Biker #1 excessive speed, illegal pass, general disregard, confrontation

Trucker blatant attempt to use his vehicle as a weapon, confrontation, arming himself, being a redneck

Biker #2 excessive speed and general disregard in order to collect "evidence" and confronting the trucker

All assholes

BTW, Roy, thanks for posting it here (i.e. moto content).  I likely woulda missed it otherwise.

Man, I would been pushing the DA hard to prosecute, particularly with the all the attention the vid is generating.  Does anyone know in what county/city that took place?  I wouldn't mind sending an email to the local prosecutor and LEOs.   ;D

Big 10-4 and +1

Again, just because we do it, does not make it right. If you ride like an asshole, you will attract other assholes. It's your choice in what fashion you want to ride, but you have to live with the consequences.

Intro to the video said Bracken County, Kentucky.

http://forums.13x.com/showpost.php?p=3554715&postcount=690 (http://forums.13x.com/showpost.php?p=3554715&postcount=690)

Jim FischerThe pickup driver was arrested for reckless driving, DUI and the DA is using the video to consider reckless endangerment and possibly attempted murder charges. If convicted of all charges the pickup driver could get up to 24 years in jail. That's unlikely but he will likely see a felony conviction and jail time for his life threatening antics. Jerk.

 [clap]

And I'm sorry, anyone that feels these riders deserved any of that from that driver... you're the squid (nicest word I could think of). Crazy, justifying attempted murder for a minor traffic violation.

posted this in the orig thread too...

http://forums.13x.com/showpost.php?p=3554715&postcount=690 (http://forums.13x.com/showpost.php?p=3554715&postcount=690)

Jim FischerThe pickup driver was arrested for reckless driving, DUI and the DA is using the video to consider reckless endangerment and possibly attempted murder charges. If convicted of all charges the pickup driver could get up to 24 years in jail. That's unlikely but he will likely see a felony conviction and jail time for his life threatening antics. Jerk.

+1
and i'm happy to see sometime justice is in the good side of the balance!

Wow...that is some scary stuff  :o

Bastard.  I had someone swerve at me and lay on the horn while riding a bicycle up at hill.  I nearly caught him at a stoplight a half mile later.  I really wanted to know what he was thinking about when he decided to do that.   >:(

Speaking only for myself, I didn't think they 'deserved any of that from that driver' but that they were in also in the wrong. Like I said, obviously there are different levels of wrong, but still wrong is wrong.

Glad he's looking at some serious consequences for his actions. They are certainly warranted.

I want to know what DUI substance the GubNubbit was flying on....

enough conjecture and high falootin' bout right and wrong here

was meth consumption cut by 50% in his county of origin?

the on-going tragic legacy of the War of Northern Aggression....the best and the brightest were slaughtered

and the unfits and left-behinds got to breed   ;D

and there they are pictured in your avatar!

This thread is the reason why I will do anything to try and avoid passing on the double yellow.  There are just too many things that could go wrong...and now I have to worry if the driver I'm passing wants to kill me on purpose!

It sucks to follow slow vehicles on the fun roads.  But it is just part of reality - we don't own the roads anymore than slow trucks do.  Behind slow vehicles I just try and slow up in the straights and catch 'em in the corners.  Or if possible pull off and wait for a nice gap in traffic.  And then pass when its safe AND legal.

Don't get me wrong...I don't always take my own advice...sometimes I get fed up to the point of making the pass when I shouldn't.  So...I'm not preaching to anyone, least of all the front rider in the video.  But it is a good example of a potentially fatal situation that could have been completely avoided had he not passed on the double yellow (even if the actual cause of death was 100% the drivers fault and intentional). 

I do love how cameras are becoming more prevalent - so that we can share these kinds of experiences...I wouldn't have believed it if I didn't see it!

Mike

Oh, and one other thing...Let's not worry about 'how much' jail time this guy gets...let's just hope that he is in jail at least long enough to become a female companion of some large and unkind cell mate...

 [evil]

That was nuts!  Note to self - avoid Bracken County Kentucky.

It sucks that there are people in this world that enjoy ruining other people's days

For no reason at all

The assumption everytime I  ride is that every car is out to kill me.  
Ofcourse, here is a great proof of that.

I assume that they are out to kill me, but I try not to put myself into a situation where it's easier for them to do so.

What an ass. Sad thing is, I've seen drivers try to pull this crap first hand.

Not riding at all will achieve that. 
Never passing a slow moving car will do that.
Even in the places where you can legally do so, don't put yourself in that situation then.

Are u serious?

Jeeesh

Like I said before, you ride like an asshole and you attract assholes. Is up to you to decide.

Sometimes just being on a motorcycle attracts assholes

Bad things just don't happen to "bad" people

they happen to good people too.

There are a lot of pending fights out there looking for an excuse to happen even if the reason has to be invented

and had the truck slowed down to 10mph to bait the riders into passing?  would they still have "also" been at fault?

would they have been at fault if they thought the gubnubbit was slowing to let them pass?

as someone mentioned on that other board...does a woman deserve to be raped because someone decided "she was asking for it?"

you should use your best judgement....but even then there is no guarantee that a warped, loaded psycho won't decide you need to be punished

for some real or imagined offense

I am glad the DA has a clear head on who's the deadly menace in this movie

You guys still think that there's a defense for the psycho. There isn't and no one here is saying that he's innocent. We are trying to point out that the riders were also at fault. The problem here is that you guys are putting youself in the rider's shoes and defending them because this is most likely how you would be riding/reacting to the psycho. Cooler heads did not prevail. Following the track because you have a sense of "lets get this guy" is not cooler heads. Confronting the psycho is not cooler heads. Again, if you choose to act like an asshole, don't be surprised if end up having to deal with others like you.

I agree with this statement whole heartedly.

Don't detract from what Carlos is trying to say here. Carlos, please correct me if I'm wrong, because I don't want to put words in your mouth, but what you're saying is that sure you like to ride and all, but (like me) you're just not willing to go the 'extra' distance to put yourself in harms what when it's really not warranted or worth it.



I'm with you all the way on this too.  [thumbsup]

The tailing rider on the 13x forum said the road is a 55mph, and they weren't going more than 65mph. That doesn't seem too out of order on a clear, sunny day.

I'm goin' with that.

You can in VT. [thumbsup]

just sayin'

Exactly what I thought.


Just because you can does not mean you should.

I'm a basically a new rider. I used to ride dirt bikes when I was a kid. But that was over 25 years ago. But it sound like you are implying that motorcycle riders don't have to follow traffic laws... that we can do whatever we like, because we can.

Nope...what I said was it is legal to pass a slower moving vehicle in VT whether there is a double yellow or not.

The law was intended to prevent cars...and bikes...from getting stuck behind slow moving farm tractors for miles.

Nothing in there about bikes not having to obey laws.

I actually waded through all 35 pages on the other forum... Wow, just wow...

Couple random points from the video;
1. The pass - Who cares, it's done by a good percentage of riders (or so I'm told).
2. The truck's initial response - Wow, dude's an angry idiot.
3. The truck swerving and blocking the road - Wow, dude's a really angry idiot.
4. #2 rider following - great video. I'll say it again, ... GoPro cameras are the greatest thing evar! ...
5. #1 bike stopping at the stop sign - usual stopping place while waiting for fellow riders, I'd guess.
6. Truck driver stopping at stop sign - finally following proper traffic laws. Big UPS for him.
7. Riders 1 and 2 getting off their bikes - Not the smartest thing to do. You have NO CLUE what's going through the head of the already established (see #s 2 & 3) angry idiot. Better to avoid the situation altogether. Riders should have just kept their kickstands up and used the stop sign to get away from the truck completely.
8. Rider #2 saying he's gonna call the cops - Not smart. Again, you have no clue of the mental state of the truck driver other than "angry idiot."
9. Rider #2 saying he's got the whole thing on camera - Not smart. Are you trying to instigate him? Do you really think telling him that would cause him to say "ohh shit, I guess I should behave myself NOW." Not, "well, I might be able to get the evidence..." Cause he's already demonstrated plenty of common sense while behind the wheel of the truck.

I am most certainly the pot calling the kettle black cause when I'm on the twisties I'm usually over the speed limit too.

But, and I still can't figure it out, if we're arguing legalities in this thread than anything over the posted speed limit is illegal and we're back at everyone in the video being in the wrong.

i've had people try to swerve into me while lane splitting on the interstates around dallas.  i only lane split when traffic is stopped or near stopped (because it's not legal here).  it seems going very slow and cautious just gives them more time to prepare their swerve or at the very least give them time to get all the way over in their lane so there's no room for me to split. 

obviously i'm wrong for lane splitting because it's technically not legal and i fully expect assmunchery.  you take the good with the bad...
 [Dolph]

Holy shit.  I would not have kept my cool about me with that driver and most likely spent the night in jail after my shenanigans.  That's all I'll say before I incriminate myself.

As for splitting lanes in Dallas.....ditto.  I do it when it's 100 degrees and expect an asshole or two but mostly they stand down; guess they feel sorry for some idiot riding in that weather anyway.

Sorry, I misunderstood. The picture looked like it was saying something different, and got my lines crossed.

I'm baffled by some of the comments in this thread.  The riders are at fault?!?  Huh?!?  What'd they do other than cross on a DY?  If that's all it takes to ride like an asshole, then I'm a gazillion times more of an asshole then I'd ever imagined.  So they followed the guy.  Who gives  make the beast with two backs?  That's not riding like an asshole.  That's following someone to get the ID of the dude who tried to kill your friend.  As for confronting him afterward, how's that an asshole move?!?   Look, normally I'm all for unfair Monday-morning-quarterbacking on the interwebs, but that's just nutty.  I just don't get it.  Those guys were just out for a ride and Mr. NoTeeth McSistermake the beast with two backser tried to put them in a ditch.


Yup, pretty much.  Just don't get caught.   [leo]

I think the instance of confronting the driver was more an example of being plain old stupid rather than being an asshole.  As mentioned earlier, you never know what the guy had with him in the cab of the truck. 

Sure, I guess.  But that conversation at the end is just golden for a criminal case against the guy.   [thumbsup]

[clap]

[thumbsup] [clap]

I think the subject of you being an asshole has been well established through the years

but I digress

This is why I personally feel that rider #2 is a complete make the beast with two backsing dick

Had I made that pass on the trucker

and

was in effect running flat out to save my life

The very last thing I would want my buddy doing is chasing the one-tooth wonder in order to get footage of the event

I would hope to all hell that as soon as he saw that the trucker was homicidal

and

giving chase

That he would stop his make the beast with two backsing motorcycle and call the police so they could come and save my ass

Before panic, fear, and excessive speed resulted in me eating shit

I'm not sure that's true as the last ticket I ever got in VT was for "limitations on passing" Then again, I was doing a lot wrong at the time and only by being extremely apologetic and polite to the state trooper did it get knocked down to just that. Might explain the fact that there are double yellows in addition to "No passing zone" signs. I dunno.

I don't fault the bikers at all. Maybe they shouldn't have stopped, maybe they shouldn't have told the guy they were calling the cops or had a video. But I doubt I'd have behaved any smarter.

Really??? In the land of "Snobby McDoocati"   ;)

There are places that the exception is revoked if it's posted.

As I said, the law was designed for getting around tractors running the road. If you pass another car while going 20 over and cross the double yellow you will get ticketed.

tiicketed, not put to death.

like I said earlier,

after the original pass there was a whole lotta stupid going on.

See... I don't see how everyone sees the camera guy as chasing down the truck.  I mean, if it happened to me, I would basically have to do the same actions... By that meaning, follow the psycho trucker because I can't pass, hope that my friend stops ahead somewhere soon so I can meet up with him because if I stop and call him, he won't get it until he stops anyway.

Dunno how it seems to everyone else he's chasing him.

Well at the very least, by following the lunatic his buddy could call in EMS with a location if Toothless caught up with him and finished running him down or into the shrubs or a ditch

that way they wouldn't have to spend a few critical hours searching for him in the foliage while he bled out

because Gomer sure wouldn't have stuck around if he succeeded in killing the guy or sent him off the road



but I am probably all wrong about this,

stopping and calling 911 in the middle of nowhere is probably a much more effective strategy

in a moving life-or-death situation when someone is trying to kill your friend

and following crazy Gomer might make him madder/crazier than he already is

[clap]

how much sense would it make to paint a broken line every 100 yards or so for a driveway on either side of the road?




As of May 29, the guy who originally shot the video said no arrests had been made:

http://www.assfaultjunkies.com/showthread.php?12459-KY-10-22-Riders-WARNING&p=303444&viewfull=1#post303444 (http://www.assfaultjunkies.com/showthread.php?12459-KY-10-22-Riders-WARNING&p=303444&viewfull=1#post303444)

We had a run-in with an LEO up in VT just this past weekend, and the clarifications given to us were "legal except where 'no passing' signs are posted, or near intersections, or bridges."

The advice we were given was to "just slow it down when we hit the villages."

What state? I'd love to know if passing on double yellow was legal in my area. Some back roads don't have the passing zones but safe passes could certainly be made.

Fail

SHHHIIIIIITTTTT

That pretty much sums it up.

If you're in town 30 mph is the rule.

If you're out in the boonies go for it.

#11 I followed him cause it was the way home,to call authorities when he wrecked or killed an oncoming individual,I knew rider one would be waiting at the stop.he waited not to leave me alone with psycho blueboy.

All good reasons.  +1 to Spidey's comments. Engaging in conversation with Deliverance at the stop was a poor choice, though.

 [laugh]

and I believe every justification from rider #2  [roll]


I maintain

everyone there was an asshole

I like your conclusions.

I'm back from my self imposed ban. You can't call them assholes, because from the replies in here most of the people that have posted would have reacted in the same way and they are not assholes, are they?

somebody with better unfiltered access to the intarwebs than me please post of the youtubes of Denis Leary singing "I'm an Asshole"

Denis Leary - Asshole (Uncensored Version) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrgpZ0fUixs#normal)

thank you!

You are very welcomed.

So, you would have made a U Turn and gone the other way?

if ensuring my buddy doesn't catch a beat down from some road-raging hillbilly makes me an asshole, I'll take that label.

If I was the one in front and my friend left me alone to get beat down (or worse) by some hillbilly, he wouldn't be my friend for much longer.

For the record, I don't see how the riders were total assholes. Truck driver? Of course. Bike riders? Not so much. The first rider didn't do anything I haven't done in oh, maybe four decades of street riding. And I really don't consider myself an asshole. OK, sure my ex-wife thinks so but make the beast with two backs her! [laugh] And if I was the second rider I would have done the same thing. Hang back and let the camera record. Who knows, hillbilly asshole might have wrecked out an oncoming bike or car and I am sure the local DA's office would have loved to have that vid. Can you say incriminating evidence? I knew you could! ;D Just another crazy mother make the beast with two backser behind the wheel of a potentially deadly weapon with their brain stem unattached. Thankfully no one was hurt by said hillbilly asshole. [thumbsup]

[thumbsup]
don't need friends who bail when there's trouble.

   That's why I ride with a shoulder holster,cuz You never know what Critter You are gonna run in to.... [roll]

the pass:  stupid (although we've all done it)
the truck swerve:  murderous (deserves jail time that involves more than just cuddling)
recording it:  brilliant (I love those little cameras)
staying close behind the truck until the stop sign:  may have given the impression of a 'chase', but I would have done the same thing...especially since it also recorded the truck commit multiple moving violations crossing the double yellow...alot.
leaving the camera running so we can hear the hillbilly rant and stomp around:  priceless

I can't believe there wasn't some kind of altercation at the stop sign. If hillbilly was that pissed off to make him drive like that then I figured he would come out of the truck cab swinging the tire iron at everything. He had no idea he was being video'd until he was told and even then he had no real reason to believe it. Again, just glad no one got hurt on the road. And yes... that even includes asshole hillbilly truck driver. :P

When I lived in Austin in the 70s I'd go on bicycle training rides out in the country. For some reason the old two lane (now giant highway :P) Hwy 620 around Lake Travis was crawling with assholes like the driver in the video. Can't tell you how many times redneck pick up drivers coming at us would drive into our lane and try to hit us or make a way too close pass traveling in our direction and I could fill up countless trashcans with empty Lone Star beer long neck bottles that were thrown at us by passing assholes. [bang] Fun times... [roll]

Hell

When I ride like that I think I'm an asshole

Ive just learned to embrace the fact

When the helmet goes every action is in self defense

FTR, as far as I'm concerned, anyone who thinks that the riders did anything wrong are, well, bent.

Uh

Yeah dewd

When I said I would want my buddy to stop and call PD

What I really meant was I would turn tail and run the other way

[roll]

I will say it again, just because this is exactly how you would react in this situation, does not mean that it wasn't stupid. A whole lotta dumb on that video.

Stupid is one thing (though I disagree that the riders were stupid).  Calling someone an asshole because he didn't cut and run for the nearest telephone is quite another.  A friggin' telephone.

The guy in the truck could have run the guy on the bike off the road, where he could bleed out while you're looking for a cell signal or a pay phone.  Now THAT'S stupid.

Someone calling themself an asshole, like Jacob has done, is fine.  I won't doubt his word there.  But calling others assholes because they stick together when the going gets tough is, well, to be an asshole.  So I guess I don't disagree with Jacob altogether.

FTR, if anyone here sees me on my bike out in the boondocks being chased by a deranged redneck in a pickup truck, please, PLEASE, don't go looking for a friggin' telephone.

We will try and start here, The Driver is definitely an asshole


I would hazard a guess that every single person on this board

including myself

is guilty of that pass


thank you for the offer but we are getting off topic


or taken your friend out when he stopped at that stop sign with just a slight nudge of the wheel



Ok lets take some creative license and change out the truck with a firearm

would you have done the same thing?

the truck made two swerves at rider #1 and then pursued him so lets say he took two shots and began chasing your friend

would you have followed to record film for the DA?

a truck is a 8000lb slow moving bullet but the results are the same when they meet flesh at velocity

You are very right, that is exactly what could have happened

what would you have done if he caught up to your friend and splattered him all over the road?

you certainly aren't going to contribute in any clinical fashion without any equipment or an operating room in your pocket

would you then go look for a cell signal or a pay phone...after the fact?

what happens when there isn't a signal?

are you going to leave your friend to bleed out in the ditch to go find that pay phone that you past or flag down another car?


More importantly

what are you going to say to the police when they show up and your friend is roadkill?


"Mister police man here look at this video, it shows the whole thing"

"Look here where he swerves twice trying to kill my friend"

"and watch here how he chases him and is driving like a complete lunatic and endangers all these other drivers"


The cop is going to look at you and say:


"You witnessed this individual attempt to murder your friend"

"and you followed this individual while recording him as he chased your friend down and killed him"

"then you decided it was time to get us involved?"

"you have 5 minutes of footage, that is 5  minutes that we could have used to intervene before he killed anyone"



Then there is the ever pleasant alone time in the dark

after the funeral

and

after all the back slapping

where all your mutual friends tell you what an amazing person you are

by being there when your buddy was killed


but

you have those nagging couple of questions left

did I do everything I could have done to prevent this from happening?

would the police have gotten him in time if I had just stopped and called 911?

The guy with the cam did have a cell phone but would have had to have stopped to use it and thereby could have lost contact with his friend. As soon as he was able to stop he did call the police.

i'm not going to say that anything you're bringing up here is invalid, but i WILL say that what i think you're referring to here is all based on hind-sight.

IMO, none of us can say exactly what we'd do in the heat of the moment. Hind-sight is always 20/20. We can ALL say we we think we SHOULD have done in the moment.

i can honestly say, i likely would have done the same thing in the video based on how i've reacted to similar (but not nearly as dangerous) situations in the past.

Jacob,

I'm amazed at the level of fatuous rationalization and withering sarcasm you employ to justify the fact that if someone's in trouble you will choose to cut and run.

Of course, it should be noted that at least everyone here knows this now, so that's a good thing.

Handlebar mounted shotgun.


/discussion.

Needs dual gyros for training and elevating guidance.  But count me in.   [Dolph]

I've seen him deal with life or death situations, both with strangers and friends, and I trust him with my life. He does what is appropriate in the situation because he deals with people's life threatening decisions every day.

You don't like his opinion, thats fine. But to insinuate that he's a bad person when you have no idea who he is and haven't even met him? Not cool.


Back to the actual topic at hand instead of personal attacks:
I think that most people in that situation would have gone with their adrenaline and followed the guy as well and I think all those involved made mistakes and were wrong in varying degrees.

The pass and following was dumb. Confronting asshole in truck = assholish.

Just to throw out an alternate ending -- there's what looks to be a full country church parking lot at around the 2:00 mark. Instead of continuing to play the rabbit in a high speed chase for an extra six or seven minutes, would it have made sense for Rider #1 to pull off into the crowded parking lot? While I wouldn't necessarily expect a lot of sympathy for moto riders there, having a crowd of witnesses would seem to me to diminish the likelihood of a 9mm ending to the video.

Lot of monday morning quarterbacking here.

Easy to criticize someone looking at their video, while they are trying to make up their minds and shitting themselves at the same time.

I don't know what I would have done, but my range of experience isn't typical.  But it's been a long time since I sat and picked off guys carrying katyushah rockets, and I'm now an attorney with kids. 

but 5 minutes in the thick of things is a blink of an eye.

this is your second accusation of turning tail and running

maybe if we do this step by step

we can see where the miscommunication is happening

1. Witness homicidal action

2. Identify continued threat

3. Consider a course of action
(this is the part where you think vs react)

4. Understand personal/equipment limitations and secure resources
(this is the part where you understand that you don't have the ability to affect a situation and need the help of people who do)

5. proceed to the scene

maybe this will help, I'm not sure

and

For the Record   <-(see what I'm doing here)

This is sarcasm

My previous post is stark make the beast with two backsing reality

I understand the need for people to react when their blood is up

and

I don't judge them negatively for it

but

maybe this one time we can simply agree to disagree and forgo the assumptions of character    <-(might still be snarky sarcasm there, I dunno yet)

I'm thinking the mods need to close this as many people need to agree to disagree

different people have different backgrounds and would have handled this situation differently.

You read my mind.

Why don't you all go out for a ride.  [thumbsup]

http://www.maysville-online.com/news/local/article_89a04436-95d4-11e0-8ef7-001cc4c002e0.html (http://www.maysville-online.com/news/local/article_89a04436-95d4-11e0-8ef7-001cc4c002e0.html)