Ducati Monster Forum

....I have oten wondered why Motors officers don't wear the kind of gear that we generally preach about doing and do. HFL's contributor Sean Smith brought up that the Manhattan Beach, CA Motorcycle cop that passed away a short time ago doing funeral escort duty could have potentially been saved if he was wearing gear(and the 2nd officer who collided with him could have decreased his level of injury). Now, at his funeral procession, another motors cop is injured -> http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/Freak-Accident-as-Another-Motorcycle-Cop-Crashes-During-Funeral-Procession-123142608.html (http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/Freak-Accident-as-Another-Motorcycle-Cop-Crashes-During-Funeral-Procession-123142608.html)

so...I am not wanting to start a Cop bashing thread, and I don't agree with some of what Sean Smith said in this piece -> http://hellforleathermagazine.com/2011/06/motor-cop-injured-in-memorial-for-motor-cop-killed-in-head-on-collision-with-motor-cop/ (http://hellforleathermagazine.com/2011/06/motor-cop-injured-in-memorial-for-motor-cop-killed-in-head-on-collision-with-motor-cop/)

but I do agree with some aspects of reasoning...

here's a couple of choice quotes...

..."this is obviously a very serious issue. Police officers, who’s salary, health insurance and workers comp are paid for by tax payers are injuring and killing themselves due to negligence. Yes, it’s a sad a terrible tragedy, especially for their friends and families....

.... Over the past year or so, I have been seeing officers, especially the CHP, wearing better riding gear. Convertible helmets, real gloves and armored clothing make for a motor cop that is less intimidating and much easier for me to respect than the CHiPs look of the past.

I think it would make officers safer and possibly more respectable in terms of when they might preach about wearing gear if and when they do. This is going on the principle that officers should be leading by example, which might be a better thing in this particular case. Officers of departments in Europe certainly wear more gear than most motors cops here and seem to be as effective in doing their jobs as here.

i say let the cops wear what they are required by their job to wear,

if their superiors don't think their lives are worth it to equip them with better gear or at least allow them the freedom to purchase on their own better gear to wear while still clearly showing that they are police officers, well then that is something they should take up with their superiors.  or maybe it  shows how much their superiors value their safety or lack there of.

at the very least it is good that they are following the law and wearing helmets, the rest is up to them.

Just a simple comparison.

(http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0PDoTC5iO5NOhUA2AqjzbkF/SIG=12jnf2fiu/EXP=1307507001/**http%3a//farm3.static.flickr.com/2635/3954356978_98f0e637d1_z.jpg)
English Policeman

(http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0PDoS4Wie5NvDAA6zijzbkF/SIG=12nqrfk10/EXP=1307507094/**http%3a//indianapublicmedia.org/news/files/2009/07/motorcycle_cop.jpg)
Indiana Policeman

-My wife was at the original funeral for the 35 year old Officer that died of cancer. This accident on the way to the cemetery was a tragedy but it was rider error and had nothing to do with gear.  

-"This time around, the Cypress officer broke both his wrists when a truck turned in front of him. That’s the kind of average, everyday accident we all get in and all prepare for. How would he have fared if he’d been wearing racing gloves? Or if he didn’t have to frantically get his hands out in front of him to protect his exposed face from the ground?"

Last I checked gloves don't protect you from breaking your wrists. And would he prefer he slammed his full face helmet head into the ground? Sheesh...The author is grasping at straws.

-They should wear better gear. Some do. In Huntington Beach I've seen them in full face helmets.

-I don't know what point the author it trying to make with the "salary, health insurance, workers comp....paid by taxpayers" comment. First, cops are taxpayers too. Second, they don't all use the City supplied health insurance, I and many of my co-workers don't. Third, if they do use it, the fact that he gets hurt doesn't cost taxpayers more, that's what the insurance is for in the first place. Fourth, we pay into the workers comp pool just like the rest of the working world. And fifth, if he dies it doesn't cost you anything anyway so why bring it up?

Both articles by Sean Smith are poorly written, poorly developed, attempts to capitalize on someone else's tragedy. I'm not impressed. An article about properly equipping US motor cops would be fine. Using two accidents that aren't gear related is not.

i have to say it is pretty cool that the english police use the high vis yello and such and it is cool to see that they wear what is basically a full leather gear, modular helmets and looks like sidi race boots.

i can only imagine the german moto police must wear nothing but even more high protection gear with being on the autobahn.

AND THAT is where I am trying to steer this discussion...as I said...I don't necessarily agree with some of the dribble he wrote...but I do agree that Motors officers should be better protected,regardless of circumstance, for the eventuality of soccer moms and a fate none of us are exempt from.

I have seen some local motors wearing what looked like an Aerostich jumpsuit. That's a start. There has to be some type of consideration for heat though. Wearing full gear PLUS a Kevlar vest would likely make you pass out from heat exhaustion in the summer.

i too have always wondered why the cops didn't wear more gear.  i wear way more than the average rider, and i'm only commuting an hour or so per day; so if i were one of them spending all day on the bike i'd certainly want to be protected.

when i did some poking around i found a moto-cop talking about it on another moto-forum ... he was saying that most of their work is actually off the bike (writing tickets, directing traffic, etc., etc) and they want to (a) appear approachable / non-threatening (hence the open-face helmets) and (b) make it easy to get on/off the bike quickly, access things in their pockets, etc. without having to worry about a lot of gear getting in the way.

so that's the rationale he provided. 

i envy their skills and training.  i don't envy their exposure to the asphalt.

It probably was. Aerostitch makes gear specifically for police:
http://www.policesuit.com/ (http://www.policesuit.com/)

It seems that there is a trend towards the euro 'style' (my words for a lack of better) and away from the CHiPs look in the states. This goes for gear and bikes. I'm seeing more metric bikes for US police as well.

I've asked this question in the past - and the intimidation/approachability was referenced as reasoning for open faced helmets. Not a very sturdy argument IMO, as modulars let the public see plenty of the officers face, and offer more protection than a 1/2 or 3/4 helmet. Plus some sport goodies like a integrated flashlight.

So it seems to me that there is a trend, how ever slow it might be towards the European example in the US   

Cheers!  [beer]

I'm a public employee in a state where the legislature and governor want to make us sacrificial lambs. The illogical arguments in that article are pretty routine in the comments section of our newspapers' online editions.

And as a rider, I like cops wearing better gear in practice because I'd like them to be safer in their workplace. I hate the idea of people having to take risks on the job.

I call bullshit, no way Indiana has polished and chromed out harley's with half helmets and oldschool riding boots as their standard MC police gear.


that said, here in portland oregon the cops have winter dress and summer dress. summer dress forces them to wear t shirts and slacks they dont even have the option of buying better gear.

I don't know - we have some pretty geared up CHP in my neck of the wood  ;D

(http://i52.tinypic.com/2ilj5n4.jpg)

Um, that is exactly the same here in Michigan. Chrome and half helmets.

I think that they, like anyone else should wear what gear they choose.

The moto police in the county (Monroe County NY) I live in look exactly like the cop shown from Indiana.  Even the same boots.

Jim

moto-cops here in NoVA are the same -- chromed bikes and those old school boots.  right out of the Village People.

I have not seen anything but chrome, half helmets and hooker boots in NoVA.  However, the other day I saw a PWC motor cop wearing civilian attire (ATG) on his work bike.  Do you know if they're take home bikes?

 

no idea, every county is different.  could have been a mechanic for all you know.

True, could have been stolen for all I know.  [Dolph]

nah, this isn't maryland

It seems you can put your bullshit flag at half-mast, big dog. Plenty of people have seen examples like I posted.  ;D

I like the get up Jim"Goose" had on in Mad Max.  If its good enough for the MFP then its good enough for our Hwy cops.  By the way, Jim got up from that fall. [clap] [laugh]

Mad Max - Goose - (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ovhw-E9gRfU#normal)
http://youtu.be/Ovhw-E9gRfU (http://youtu.be/Ovhw-E9gRfU)

well bullshit rescinded then, on the west coast its all BMW's and KZ1000's before that. harleys havent been in the fleets since the 70s at least.

 how the hell are you supposed to catch a speeder going 90+ from a dead stop on a harley that will only go what,130mph tops?  I can understand for parades and funerals but as an enforcement vehicle?

Tustin PD and several LA COunty PD's ride Harleys. Huntington Beach PD rides Hondas.

I have noticed CHP moto cops have new helmets.  Still open face but the top looks more aerodynamic.  There also appears to be vents built into them now.

well...I am glad that OSHA isn't wise to this, or they would have been federally mandated to be wearing more protective gear a long time ago....

Yep Arlington and Fairfax county moto officers are still sporting the old school. They do have cold/foul weather dress, but much of the time it's halfies and uniform shirts

I know Arlington county allows officers who live in county to use cruisers off duty within the county limits. Don't know if that applies to motos as well though

Im all for gear. Even if its 90 out im in full leathers, gloves, boots etc.

I am wondering if the lack of gloves (or use of fingerless gloves) may have something to do with being able to effectively manipulate and operate their weapon?

I think it might be tough to work a firearm with my held phantoms on.

https://secure.usstandardissue.com/Product_Detail.cfm?id=294# (https://secure.usstandardissue.com/Product_Detail.cfm?id=294#)

I have a pair of the previous generation and they do have a level of pretection and relatively no lack of feel for the ability to use a weapon perfectly fine...and they seem to work well for the armed forces in that regard

(https://secure.usstandardissue.com/Product_Images/395E90AE-C294-093B-0CBC43EEA52D1206.jpg)

but if those are hard to come by...then perhaps these, which I also own, will work...

http://www.mechanix.com/m-pact-3-glove (http://www.mechanix.com/m-pact-3-glove)

(http://www.mechanix.com/uploads/store/products/13/thumbnails/MW09_MP3_05_H_400x500.jpg)

interesting

I'm surprised OSHA hasn't been all over this. They try to dictate everything else.

L.A City coppers ride Kawi's, Harleys and BMW's....

They've recently gone to some full face helmets ( which are a preference i believe but most still wear the SpaceBalls stlye helmet)..

some wear full tilt leather jackets.. but no lower body protection. I talked to Mike (Kushitani Leathers) about it and he was thinking about making an inquiry to a Dept or two about protective gear....

Since its a City or County entity he'd deal with ( for inspection, approval and all that other nonsense) I imagine it would take a bit to get past all the typical political red-tape to get gear approved..

It's not just a matter of "Hey that stuff offers great protection, Let's wear it" - Sux but true

The other thing that will keep cops out of full gear is budget. Municipalities aren't exactly flush with cash and I can't imagine them making this a priority if they've been riding naked forever.

budget doesn't play as big a factor as you think...maybe not in all municipalities...but in most, cops pay for their own uniforms and equipment.

Plenty of options for gloves.  Plus they have "quick release" designs which are velcroed on and rip off easily.

Seems to me they should be using these.  Flip up full face helmets, gloves and better boots at the minimum.  Ballistic jacket.  Maybe not regular riding pants, but it seems they could make some kind of armored slacks.

Osha won't be over all this, as you well know cops are the only ones that police cop behavior, so as long as they want the lighter more comfortable gear tehy will have it.

i would guarantee if you poll moto cops 99% of them would say they are fine with the current gear and dont' want to have anyone tell them what to do, and probably feel they don't need anymore gear because "its too hot with the other gear on" as habliam said the bullet proof vest is already too hot now more gear will make it stiffling.  and they would probably also say "i'm a better rider than any other regular street rider why do i need more gear on?"

and if any Motors cop said that to me, I would ask how they defend against or are immune from the non-attentive-left-turning-into-you-or-your-path-soccer-moms or some variance thereof...no matter how good of a rider you are, it is always an external circumstance out of your control that you have to be vigilant of which is hard to do when your job of doing that is being taxed out my your attention to everything else by function...


police-ing their behavior isn't what OSHA does....safe work environment regulations and standards for to protect workers from themselves and incidents while performing their jobs is exactly what OSHA does best in regulating and writing big fines for...so yes, it is a potential for them to stick their federal nose into -> http://www.osha.gov/index.html (http://www.osha.gov/index.html)

show them the articles above and ask them how many riders crash into other riders...

+1

In this part of the West Coast (Seattle), local cops (Seattle PD) ride Harleys. Summer gear is CHIPs inspired...winter varies, but some wear the A'Stitch suits. Oakland PD also ride Harleys.

King County Sheriff and Hwy Patrol all seem to wear A-Stitch suits and full-face flip-up helmets though, and ride Honda STs...or BMWs.

damn free-love hippy fairy

I think if I was as highly trained and most moto cops I would feel better about wearing less gear. I personally would still wear full gear and would recommend to everyone else that they do too. But riding expertise (i.e. - the ability to avoid accidents in the first place) is a good piece of armor to have. And moto cops tend to have that in droves.

sac

out here

State wears regular uniform gear and County wears a 'stitch

Oi you!!  Take that crazy outside of the box thinking the hell out of here.

I don't think it's the gear that that makes a cop friendly and helpful looking, it's the attitude and the history.
To your point about Europe, cops stand on corners at the ready with heavy body armor, automatic weapons, finger at rest against trigger, cigarette dangling, and the coolest look on Earth. Somehow they don't intimidate though they look like they could take out a gang of 12 in a heart beat.
No one hesitates to approach them and ask directions, get a light or just shoot the shit.

They tend to ignore petty BS like speeding 10 over and pick pockets. They are after terrorist, violent criminals and the like.
(http://webstorage.mediaon.it/media/2009/02/0902041959__744673_IMG_7443_7_7239407_medium.jpg)

i love that PM12 he's carrying. 

Honda ST1300's are pretty popular cop bikes as well.