So, finally got the bike back from tuner... And here are the results. 72HP/47 torque... That's an approx. 4HP gain with the pod filters over bikes w/o and an overall 6-7 HP gain over stock..
I base these gains over other dyno #'s/charts I have seen on 696s that are bone stock(64-66 HP), and with slip-ons/tune/filters(67-68HP)..
Overall, I don't think that they are bad gains, but looking at the charts, there is definitely room for improvement. The tuner said there were a few "rough spots" which I believe are the dips in the graph where the power dips down to the un-tuned spot....
Like I said in a previous post, the tuner was a mainly Harley guy. He said my bike was difficult to tune(not sure why)... I have been given the contact info for a ducati tuner and am still looking around for some other tuner's to see if they can smooth out the power and maybe bump up a few more horsies.... So this is the INITIAL dyno run...
(http://i688.photobucket.com/albums/vv250/bsurjan/004-10.jpg)
Any thoughts, tips, advice and/or comments??
I am not sure how other companies that sell pod filters claimed 85HP dyno numbers... seems like a lot to me when several companies are getting around 65-66HP at the wheels stock
Oh, and this is the setup I have:
Ducshop velocity Stacks
H-Comp exhaust
ECU reflash to remove o2 sensors and raise rev limiter to 9500
Power Commander V
I'm begging to think this tuning thing is hit or miss. It's not an exact science. I still cant get someone to tune my CB to work with the pods and the Dynatek ignition. :(
It can't be an exact science- you are tuning for specific points in the power band. "Maximum Power" at a certain point in the power band may not allow for best performance before or after. It takes time and especially experience with certain bikes to get things tuned optimally- not just highest horsepower.
i think one of the things about the the ducshop kit as compared to other pod filters is the velocity stack intakes. Not sure they are as well designed as some of the others. like the TPO. but that being said. the PC V is what should have been used to smooth out that Tq curve. if he tunes HD or Triumph or whatever.. the PC V are all the same.
also, your exhaust builds very little if any backpressure. try getting Ryan to build you a db limiter to see if you can build a bit of back pressure for the lower end tq.
that A/F mixture was all over the place. and that dip is matched with that dip in tq as well.
The 6k hit is the nature of the motor, but I'm sure that tq curve can be smoothed.
I think maybe try another shop.
I also think te exhaust might be a contributor to the curve bouncing up and down. The tuner even said that the exhaust was causing issues. I emailed Ryan so hopefully there is a db insert and/or we can work on something to help out the curve.
Bike ran really strong yesterday, and seemed to have a ton more power and it just wanted to keep going. I was hitting 90mph before I even knew it... Before,
I use to have a flat spot around 5.5k like you have now. Took another session on the dyno (and maybe more miles, or a valves job, or more mods, or more favorable conditions) to tune it out.
I still have a slight flat spot around 7-7.5k that needs to be tuned out, but as that's in a portion of the rev range not as noticeable as 5.5K.
http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=38563.0 (http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=38563.0)
I always thought the 85hp 696 dyno runs way a bit high considering the 1ks are doing just about that. Maybe those dynos are reading on the high side, we won't know for sure...
Quote from: DoWorkSon on June 12, 2011, 09:22:35 AM
I also think te exhaust might be a contributor to the curve bouncing up and down. The tuner even said that the exhaust was causing issues. I emailed Ryan so hopefully there is a db insert and/or we can work on something to help out the curve.
Bike ran really strong yesterday, and seemed to have a ton more power and it just wanted to keep going. I was hitting 90mph before I even knew it... Before,
I posted a thread a while back on how I created baffles for the twin tubes. After a few hundred miles of riding they have worked flawlessly. Dropped the dB a bit and definitely increased the backpressure substantially.
Might help if Ryan never gets back to you.
http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=40752.msg914124#msg914124 (http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=40752.msg914124#msg914124)
He has installed a baffle at this point with inspiration from your thread.... he might have posted in the 696 Owners thread, no new dyno results though. Just installed an AutoTune...
Quote from: 2-Skinny on July 13, 2011, 10:15:40 AM
He has installed a baffle at this point with inspiration from your thread.... he might have posted in the 696 Owners thread, no new dyno results though. Just installed an AutoTune...
Nice. How did the autotune work out?
Charlie bit me Auto-Tuned (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8xAeBOAC8U#normal)
Just installed the auto-tune this weekend. Have yet to ride it, but with some help from Ung, I was able to determine how I want to target my A/F ratio and set it up to start creating maps.
I am hoping it smooths out the power curve and get rid of some flat spots... Going to plug everything in tonight, and go on some test runs to get it reading my bike. Hopefully, this weekend I will be able to go on a few nice long rides and get it dialed in.
Good luck, DoWorkSon! I'm anxious to hear your results.
Watching with interest [popcorn].
I think that is an excellent gain (in the world of honest dyno claims), it's just a matter of fine tuning the torque curve for "drivability".
Autotune appears to be a promising solution for consistent performance under different conditions. I think it holds real potential which is what makes this thread so interesting. [thumbsup]
Tonight did my first run with the auto-tune... Probably about 30 min of riding on freeway so I was able to ride at varying speeds/RPMs/Throttle responses... Here is a pic of the before and after ratio's of one cylinder... This is with a 13:2 A/F ratio across the board.
(http://i688.photobucket.com/albums/vv250/bsurjan/1-1.png)
If you look at it, pretty significant changed in the spots where the dyno mapping was below pre-map power in the 4-5500 RPM range....
Going to go on a longer ride(2 hour) tomorrow and then look at more changes as it starts to learn...
Im hoping with these changes, everything starts to smooth out
looks like it's leaning it out more.
one thing you'll find is that it's very hard to get any decent higher throttle results on anything other than a clear, winding road. so get right out of town. another is that the results can be clouded by throttle opening rate enrichment (accelerator pump). if the autotune leans it out a lot at lower throttle openings and you get lean spots causing poor running that's generally what causes them, so be wary of that. it can sometimes happen in one specific spot.
was it originally mapped on both cylinders or just one map for both combined? if it was one map for both that could certainly lead to the "hard to tune" comments and to the lumpy curve. it can be a real compromise at times, and that looks like the headers will be somewhat different in length and shape.
also any comparison to other runs is useless, so unless you have a before run your after is irrelevant to anyone but you. i say this as the dyno i used for the last 16 years (dynojet 200) has now been replaced by a dynojet 250i and it reads maybe 6% lower. there can be a lot of variation in dynojets even.
and that exhaust just looks like it won't work to me, so the curve shape doesn't surprise me. not trashing the makers, but it's a physical limitation thing with what they're trying to do. it might work better than stock, but most open things do.
this comment is the most telling though "Bike ran really strong yesterday, and seemed to have a ton more power and it just wanted to keep going. I was hitting 90mph before I even knew it... Before," tuning is an exact science, and it's not all about a dyno run.
It was originally mapped for two cylinders.
I know it's hard to compare the two maps without actually dyno'ing one then dyno'ing the second. But, I was just posting differences of the dyne run vs the changes made by the autotune.
Why do you say the exhaust won't work?
I think these gains are awesome! Here in Italy we are not so optimistic about gains with pipes/filter/ecu mods, most people here recon that the dynos published by manufacturers are very very pimped, professional motor experts on the italian forum claim that real gains are in the order of about 2/3 HP on a 1100 with pipe/ecu/filter mod, not more.
They also say that tuners often give you what you want to see.
For example they laugh to the +10hp WASP or pods dyno's, they say it's ridiculous, totally impossible to have that kind of gain only through an air filter.
So if you really have +4hp on a 696 that's totally awesome.