(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5191/5858761390_8a98ccf936_b.jpg) (https://www.flickr.com/photos/26339726@N03/5858761390/)
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5101/5858210167_b2d0647925_b.jpg) (https://www.flickr.com/photos/26339726@N03/5858210167/)
Ouch
How 'varied' did it get?
Quote from: Speeddog on June 21, 2011, 06:32:47 PM
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5101/5858210167_b2d0647925_b.jpg) (https://www.flickr.com/photos/26339726@N03/5858210167/)
Hmm . . .mine looks different than that. I should probably take it into the shop to have them check it out.
DS VTEC -- schweet. [thumbsup]
29k miles, belts done @18k 10/2009.
Valves last done @ 8k.... considering that, they're not out too far.
Doesn't seem to have hurt anything.
Turning the cam pulley with the belt on like in the pic, just a couple degrees of freeplay at the cam, maybe 5 degrees.
Ahhh, scary!
Is that what happens when the belts are too tight?
Very fortunate the belt didn't skip a few teeth on the pulley.
WetDuc, I think that's what happens when the bearings in the idler pully go bad (they appear to be rusty). I doubt its down to belt tension.
The DS1k got revised recommendations for their belt tensions. From the factory they were too tight, leading to failures. Might have started with too-tight belts. But yeah rusty dusty for sure.
did you see any HP gain on the butt dyno? :P
Quote from: Spidey on June 21, 2011, 07:17:37 PM
Did this bike have open style belt covers? I like the rizoma style but I have always wondered about dirt and moisture getting in and causing problems. :-\
Or is this rare, there are many bikes with open belt covers and clutch covers?
Quote from: danaid on June 22, 2011, 11:14:25 AM
Did this bike have open style belt covers? I like the rizoma style but I have always wondered about dirt and moisture getting in and causing problems. :-\
Or is this rare, there are many bikes with open belt covers and clutch covers?
Regular OEM covers, not open.
The bike does stay outdoors a lot, AFAIK, and is fairly close to the beach.
did the roller actually cut into the boss? how long did he ride it like that?
Quote from: aaronb on June 22, 2011, 03:57:30 PM
did the roller actually cut into the boss? how long did he ride it like that?
Roller skimmed a bit of the boss on the cylinder, but the important part was protected by the inner race.
Roller cut into the inner race a bit too, but no big deal.
No idea how long it ran that way.
Appears to be a bit diff to my 2V but I squirted some grease into my fixed idler bearings and all 4 of the adjustables.
Used a 1 ml. medical syringe, slipped the needle in between the central post and the inner lip of the rubber seals.
Took 'em all off the cyl wall so as to get access to the " inside" seals.
They don't exactly spin freely after the grease charge because the rubber seals drag a bit, but they certainly turn MUCH easier than before.
Sealed bearings come new with only a tiny amount of grease.
What kind of grease?
White Lithium Grease, water insoluble, from Plews - must be good, made in USA :-)
I repaired a Triumph whose handlebars could barely move side to side. The steering head bearings were packed with white Lithium grease It has solidified to the point that it was almost crumbly. It was hard to believe my eyes. And this bike was ridden fairly regularly. I don't know how the owner coped with it for so long.
Since then I have confirmed this problem with others several times.
Never again white lithium grease for me.
Yep, know zactly what you are saying but steering head bearings are highly likely to get exposed to water and, more importantly they don't roll very far when the bars go from lock to lock.
I reckon I'll get at least another 40,000 km from my idlers now that they have been re-charged, and it's so damm easy to take off the inspection covers to check how they feel, which I do now and then when I have a peep at how my white-lettered non-Ducati Gates belts are faring - they're now 3 years old, looked mighty fine when I had them off a few weeks ago.
Far as I'm concerned anything is better than waiting for my idlers to fall apart like the pics from Speeddog's OP, ouch that could have been a disaster......
Do you know what are the part numbers for the idler and tensioner belt pullies. I think I need to replace mine as the belt on my horizontal cylinder keeps shreding/rubbing up against the belt cover. I retensioned the belts (put a new one on) and still have that problem on that cylinder. I'm thinking one of them is cockeyed. Any other suggestions. If I put a new belt on it will just shred again over time.
You can get the parts catalogue from ducati.com: http://www.ducati.com/services/maintenance/index.do (http://www.ducati.com/services/maintenance/index.do)
Go to 'Spare Parts Catalogs" middle of page, right side.
Where is the belt rubbing on the cover?
Pic?
Quote from: WTSDS on June 24, 2011, 09:29:09 PM
White Lithium Grease, water insoluble, from Plews - must be good, made in USA :-)
if you don't know what grease came in the roller from the factory, you may want to pick the seals off and clean the rollers then reapply a proper bearing grease. not all greases are compatible and mixing may cause undesirable results.
http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/1865/grease-compatibility (http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/1865/grease-compatibility)
also, why white lithium when there are so many good synthetic bearing greases available? without measuring anything, i bet that bearing spins at 1-2x engine speed. this is no time to just guess.
edit, not to be picking on you, but i have to mention, max operating temperature, 248F.
http://www.plews-edelmann.com/brochure.cfm?brochure=12158&location_id=18562 (http://www.plews-edelmann.com/brochure.cfm?brochure=12158&location_id=18562)
aaronb,
Something else that you didn't mention directly is that ball bearing manufacturers do not completely fill their sealed bearings with grease at the factory for a reason. They usually recommend that only one-fourth to one-third of the internal bearing volume be filled with grease. As an extreme example, the bearings in my surface grinder are only supposed to be 11% filled with grease. According to the bearing maufacturers, overfilling with grease can cause overheating and premature bearing failure.
Bob
>> why white lithium when there are so many good synthetic bearing greases available?
Not in my shed that day, it was either that or two tins of 20 year old chassis greases.
Sheesh, beginning to feel a little guilty here....... only injected a little squirt, 1/2 a ml. in each, didn't inhale,
Not hard to check how they're travelling and if hot grease spews onto my belts I'll use something else next time.
Quote from: Langanobob on June 25, 2011, 05:53:03 PM
aaronb,
Something else that you didn't mention directly is that ball bearing manufacturers do not completely fill their sealed bearings with grease at the factory for a reason. They usually recommend that only one-fourth to one-third of the internal bearing volume be filled with grease. As an extreme example, the bearings in my surface grinder are only supposed to be 11% filled with grease. According to the bearing maufacturers, overfilling with grease can cause overheating and premature bearing failure.
Bob
Not trying to be insulting, I'm just hugely inquisitive:
If overfilling can lead to overheating, why do shop manuals and manufacturers recommend you "pack" wheel bearings with grease? While they're often not "sealed", there are cases where folks use those spring-loaded pressure caps for marine wheel bearings that go so far as to maintain the grease at a slightly positive pressure (to keep water out).
Sincerely, I don't mean to be obnoxious, I'm just trying to understand this so I don't ruin the next set of bearings I go to inspect and service. Up 'til now every serviceable bearing I've messed with I have packed to the brim with grease, so much that it comes squirting out the edges of the cap when I put it all back together. Granted, I've never mucked with the internals of any "sealed" cartridge bearings, I've just installed them per the manual's recommendations and check them occasionally for roughness or slop.
These belt tensioner rollers turn about 1.25 x crank rpm.
At that speed, they're better off not being packed full of grease.
A wheel bearing is only turning 800-900 rpm on the freeway (regular size moto or car tire).
Quote from: duc_fan on June 27, 2011, 01:17:28 PM
Not trying to be insulting, I'm just hugely inquisitive:
If overfilling can lead to overheating, why do shop manuals and manufacturers recommend you "pack" wheel bearings with grease? While they're often not "sealed", there are cases where folks use those spring-loaded pressure caps for marine wheel bearings that go so far as to maintain the grease at a slightly positive pressure (to keep water out).
Sincerely, I don't mean to be obnoxious, I'm just trying to understand this so I don't ruin the next set of bearings I go to inspect and service. Up 'til now every serviceable bearing I've messed with I have packed to the brim with grease, so much that it comes squirting out the edges of the cap when I put it all back together. Granted, I've never mucked with the internals of any "sealed" cartridge bearings, I've just installed them per the manual's recommendations and check them occasionally for roughness or slop.
When you "pack" an open bearing there is room for expansion between the bearings and seals. Also, packing means forcing grease between the rollers and the cagen not filling the whole cavity with grease.
As far as marine goes, I have no expertize, but would guess those bearings either are low speed or have a weep hole.
Thanks for the info.
Didn't think about the fact that wheel bearings are turning significantly slower than most sealed cartridge bearings on the motor. Timing belt tensioners, accessory belt tensioners, etc... they all turn at relatively high speed compared to wheel bearings, which are only 800-900 rpm @60 mph for average car-sized tires (as pointed out by Speeddog above). Big difference in heat generated that must be dissipated.
I'll continue my practice of packing wheel bearings as full as I can with high-quality synthetic wheel bearing grease, because I've had many miles of success with that (and decades of experience by my father before that). Sealed cartridge bearings I will continue to not tamper with... simply install per factory/mfr recommendations, inspect regularly, and replace as needed.