Ducati Monster Forum

Just read a local magazine test of the 1100Evo.  Said it was the first desmodue to come out with 100hp.
Has this been tested by any magazines? Claimed hp, rwhp, at the crank?
A 100hp desmodue, that'd be nice.

Yes.

afaik all Ducati numbers are at the crank

In the past, it was a believable rear-wheel HP number.

Then, maybe 4 years ago, changed to a fictional crank HP number.

how is it fictional?

I always thought crank hp was a more scientific number because drive train lost can vary so much. if you bolted the same motor to one with light weight chain, sprockets, wheel vs one with stock components, your essentially "freeing up" hp. so atleast you know your motor makes 100hp, and you could get closer to that without modding the engine.

my bike is rated 95hp. but it puts out 83 at the rear wheel on stock components.

 My BMW S 1000rr is  183 hp at the  rear whell and they claim 193 hp but most say its  200 or over at the crank stock .

No, not at the wheel.

Thanks for all the replies.
Rear wheel hp is what matters to me because that is what the average dyno operator measures when they are tuning. It is the power delivered by the total product in it's practical use. It's where the rubber hits the road so to speak.
So then, how much rear wheel hp do they make? Has Sportrider measured one on a dyno yet?

Well if you are gonna get it Dynoed, they can tell you what it's putting down.

You answered your own question.  Crank HP is fictional coz in reality its not what you get.  As you've identified, losses can be many and varied.  Motorcycle (and other vehicle) manufacturers like to quote crank numbers.... coz they're more impressive, but they're fairly meaningless when attempting to compare one bike's stats against another's.

^^ What koko64 said.

 ;)

^  You could have a billion hp at the crank, but all that matters is what you can put down to the road (and incidentally what you can put down is all that's really verifiable so mfg's can more easily fib about crank #s).

I'd be surprised if a stock 2v can put 100hp to the wheel., but its not out of the question.  I'd expect around 90 for the latest one which is still mighty respectable.  With mods they can go way over 100hp at the wheel though. 

Normal driveline loss is 12-15%.  So if you're pulling 100 at the crank, it's 85 to 88 at the wheel.

YMMV.

Even if they did it would vary from yours. The only thing a dyno is good for is to measure your bike and the mods you do it, before and after.

And this crank number reporting is universal. My SRT8 Challenger is advertised at 420HP. It dynoed at 355 to the rear wheels. Right in the neighborhood of 85%. I managed to get another 20HP with exhaust/CAI and custom tuning. The shop I used has seen stock numbers from 340 to 380 at the wheels. So results may vary car to car, bike to bike.  Then there is the whole dyno, dyno operator discussion. Your results will vary with the weather, the dyno, the operator, etc. Same day, same dyno, same operator, before and after mods is the best way to gauge mod performance.

The EVO with 100HP? Likely right in the 85Hp range.

Very true.

I was having such a conversation with two local dyno operators the other week.  One guy said that his ega, dyno, and software must be set up and calibrated correctly, and he had to be on his game for the dyno tests to have integrity.

It's also true that I could shop around for a more "generous" dyno! ;)

Well, for the sake of arguing... When you build a motor for a vehicle, do you test the ENGINE for proper HP output, or do you put the whole car together then dyno it to make sure the CAR is making the right power?

When you transplant a motor from one vehicle to another, do you use crank HP or do you use RWHP from a totally different car? I am using this reference because the same motor is used in many different cars but maintains the same HP rating, however the drive train is completely different. Think about the V8 ford uses in the Econoline and F150. Same motor different drive train.

And when you add non engine mods to the bike, you can only "Free up" hp. So if you bolted on a bunch of stuff, ligth weight wheels blah blah blah, you know you can never actually make your M1100EVO a 100hp bike  because its 100hp crank, which means thats the max output of the motor. The average car joe knows that rwhp has about 15-20% lost. so u just multiply and subtract. But going the other way around, u have to set up a mini equation which is annoying to do. 15% of what = my RWHP?

I know all this stuff is just mumble jumble cause in reality all you want to know is how much useable power your getting when your putting it down on the road. but i dont think crank HP is a fictional bs number at all. it would be great if they advertise both.


And for the record my 1000DS puts 82rwhp. ;)

Anyhooooo.  1100EVO engine is rated at 100 hp.  That's the story and I am sticking to it. 

My modified M900 makes 81 STD rwhp or 80 SAE rwhp corrected on the same dyno. It stomps on a freezing cold day with low humidity (and measured with uncorrected hp) [evil].

I know of a dyno that will give me nearly 90 [laugh].

Hey He Man if I go to that dyno my bike will blow yours out of the water! (As long as you don't take your bike there too) ;).

i look at it this way..

if Ducati rates all its motors the same way then it has more than any previous 2v ducati motor.

Thats true Raux.
Compared to my old girl,
more capacity, better ports, bigger valves, more efficient combustion chambers, better cams, more compression, better fuel delivery, better ignition.
Its just evolution.

They didn't used too, but fell victim. If you want to know real numbers, put it on the Dyno.

Its totally true that dyno operators can fudge the numbers.  I once witnessed a dyno operator at a dyno day stress a bit when he saw that a bike he "built" for a customer (to the tune of $6k for the engine work) got beat out by an older, stock bike.  His sollution was to fiddle with the dyno and run the customer's "built" bike an extra six times until it finally spit out a winning number  [roll]

I have spent a couple decades on car forums.  For purposes of the internet, the most relevant measurement is the butt dyno.

The formula to get to HP is easy. 
- Take stock HP as quoted by manufacturer, wheel or crank doesn't matter. 
- Add 10% because your vehicle is special. 
- Add 20% for drivetrain loss (whether you started at wheel or crank is irrelevant)
- take a +5% bonus for any stickers from tuners or local street racing clubs.
- add 50hp on top of that if you "smoked" some guy in a Porsche GT2 the other day

then....put that you are putting down 500HP in your signature and join the argument about Mustang vs. Dynojet.

My S2R 1000 is easily putting down a 100+ HP at the wheel, i destroyed a guy on a Yamaha R1 this morning on the way to work.

 [clap]  [laugh] [clap]

in that case i fixed my signature.

That's the funniest thing I've ever read, today.

The best part was "pregnant doges", I just keep thinking of "Talladega Nights". [clap]