Ducati Monster Forum

Please please please watch where your driving. I think its a 1098 or 848, judging from the pictures. The video in the link is horrifying, watch at your own risk, just, really really terrible.

rest in peace man
(WARNING, ITS KIND OF AN INSANE VIDEO)
(http://media.trb.com/media/alternatethumbnails/story/2011-06/356625120-27051014.jpeg)

http://www.kdvr.com/news/kdvr-video-shows-moment-of-impact-in-fatal-denver-hitandrun-20110628,0,1342635.story (http://www.kdvr.com/news/kdvr-video-shows-moment-of-impact-in-fatal-denver-hitandrun-20110628,0,1342635.story)


DENVER -- A 26-year-old man is in custody for allegedly causing an accident that killed a motorcyclist on Sunday, and then fleeing the scene.

Daniel Kliem, 26, was arrested for investigation of careless driving resulting in death and leaving the scene of an accident, Denver Police announced Tuesday.

Court records show he has previous arrests for driving under the influence and driving with a suspended license.

Surveillance video obtained by FOX31 Denver shows a Jeep Cherokee making a left turn from a car wash parking lot onto northbound Federal Blvd. near West Virginia Ave., and into the path of a motorcycle ridden by Abdul Alhilo, who was traveling south on Federal.

Alhilo, a refugee from Iraq, died from the impact, which rocked the SUV sideways.

Police said the Jeep drove a short distance after the accident before Kliem jumped out and ran, leaving two passengers still inside the vehicle.

“If the motorcycle was able to push the vehicle sideways, that’s an indication of speed,” said Max Scott with The Forensic Trio, an accident reconstruction team based in Lafayette, Colo.

Based on skid marks, Scott estimates the motorcycle was traveling at approximately 45 miles an hour.

Horrible... hate to second guess but it looks like he had room to move right and avoid the collision.

agreed on the idea of target fixation instead of accident avoidance escape route....that doesn't make this any less wrong or right...just stating an opinion based on Point of View from just 1 aspect...

Watching the video it looks like the bike was going too fast.  The video looks slowed down slightly and he is still traveling fairly fast.  With that being said though the driver of the SUV is a piece of shit.  To drive off and leave the guy there to suffer just shows you thought you did something wrong.
:\

forensic guy says 45mph, internet guy says "too fast"... i wonder which one has better information to draw conclusions from?

what is the speed limit of the road right there?

Maybe 45mph is too fast.

always bad to hear stuff like this...

i have to agree that the video does show that the biker is going a lot faster than the rest of traffic though, seemingly faster than 45 mph.  and the forensic guy mentioned in this article might not be the guy on scene.  it states that the max scott guy is a part of "the forensic trio" which is seemingly a group hired by law firms/people involved in litigation for accident reconstruction.  i'm guessing the reporters just sent him the video and had him give a quote on it.  i def could be wrong about this, but i would think that the official report would come out of the police forensics dpt, not a 3rd party.

This internet guy thinks the bike was going fast too. I was the company rep for my family trucking company regarding all vehicle accidents and cargo damage claims. I have seen and heard lots of bad intel come out of so called forensic traffic "experts" and have given counter testimony in court. Not throwing rocks at this expert's statement because all I have to look at is a funky video. Just saying the bike looks to be clipping along.

I also agree with others that he had room to the right to avoid the Jeep. Target fixation and speed are a bad mix. He was also a young guy. How much street experience did he have?

Anyway, no amount of Monday morning quarterbacking will ever make up for the life that was taken by some irresponsible, chicken shit driver! [bang] You got hit that hard and you took off? [bang] You dump your car down the road and run leaving two friends in your car? Ahhh... do you think they were going to take the blame for the accident? I've got $100 that says he was once again drunk as hell and driving and waited until he sobered up before going into custody to avoid intox manslaughter charges. Hope his "friends" rat his sorry ass out and tell police how drunk he really was behind the wheel.

At least the rider's family can take solace in knowing the SOB that killed him is now behind bars. Sad story indeed.

Speed limit is 40mph.  I still stand by my "too fast" comment.
(http://www.mikemo.org/bikes/40mph.jpg)

Sad story indeed.  It's painful for me to watch the video as I also went thru similar accident just 10 months ago.   I was doing 35 (speed limit) when a careless driver coming toward me made an illegal left turn.  She hit me on my left side.  A fraction of sec difference would have had me crashing into the car, just like the driver.  Watched that video literally took me back to the moment when I laid on the side of street, feeling helpless...

+1.  I hope that the driver is held responsible for this tragedy to the fullest of the law.

45 mph and too fast are exclusive. He didn't say HOW fast he was going only TOO fast. By definition he was going TOO fast to stop given that particular situation, so 'internet guy' is right. But that doesn't mean 'forensic guy' wasn't right too... could have been 45 mph.

Regardless, the cager should be thrown under the jail... piece of trash for not stopping.

I can't tell from the video if he's wearing a helmet or not.  Would it have made a difference in a sudden stop 45 mph impact?  Running into that SUV is like hitting a brick wall.  Your brain can only take so many G's, helmet or no.

they are using moment of impact to determine that. 

All I can say is damn. Thats sad, I hate people sometimes. Just leaving the scene like that is beyond imagination.

I agree, that it looks like the bike was traveling faster then the road conditions seemed to warrant, but I'm sure everyone of us has done that at one point or another. I hope he went quickly, and I wish his family well during this time of grief.

reallly cannot believe we are debating the speed of the rider here.
the truck driver made a bad move, 45 35, 15... the truck driver is at fault period.

Last year when a lady pulled out of a T intersection where I had the right of way, I wasn't going fast, hell I was going a lot slower than usual, AND I hesitated towards the intersection... didn't matter, she pulled out in front of me... LUCKILY I was in my car not the bike. Totalled both cars. I would have been toast on the bike.

AND I would have been pissed in the afterlife if you guys would sit here and think my speed had anything to do with her idiot move pulling out in front of a driver with the right of way.

actually ,it's a valid point and it's hard to say.  if the bike was moving too fast, the truck could have reasonably underestimated how much time he needed.

either way, it doesn't excuse him leaving the scene in that manner.

we can't just look the other way if the biker was going too fast.  i am not saying he definitely was, but i would like to know.

also, I think the speed is deceiving because of the vehicles in the opposite lane are slowing due to traffic.

Your right in a way. Debating his speed after the fact is like shooting rubber bands at the moon. It only matters that the POS driver pulled in front of him and what's worse is he drove away then ran from his car. You just killed someone and that's what you do? Jeez! [bang] Piece of shit is WAY too good a term for him. >:( I still say he was drunk, ran abandoning his vehicle and friends, then waited until he sobered the next day before he turned himself in. What? Turning yourself in somehow now makes you a good guy? Guess he thinks that will lessen his sentence. "Hey, I did the right thing!" BS. Wish I was on that jury. Needs to be hung by his nuts. [popcorn]

+1...

The forensic guy was quoted as making his findings from the skid marks. Speed from skid is a fairly solid way to determine the speed of the vehicle.

yeah we did this stuff in college physics, weight and coefficient of friction of tires to road, that with the skid marks, you can figure out the speed pretty easily

While working at an airport, we used a truck with a bike wheel on the back. just tp figure the coefficient of friction (mew) for the landing aircraft.

FYI, one of the posters on the FOX website said the guy was making an illegal U turn there.  He ran cause he knew he'd screwed up.  See below.

"Elaine03 at 1:02 PM June 29, 2011

This is very sad for everyone involved, especially for the victim & his family. I grew up around that neighborhood & the speed limit is 45MPH. The driver of the Jeep is totally at fault, since he is the one that made an illegal left hand turn. It would have taken thirty more seconds for him to have exited on to W. Virginia Ave. & pull up to the light & make a left hand turn from there. Anyway this a very tragic story."

yes, he was definitely going too fast to have a large, stationary object in his path.

;D

When you speed on busy streets you run the risk of people misjudging your speed, especially when you are heading almost straight towards them. When you put the video on full screen, you get a much better idea of the speed he was doing and more importantly how much distance he had to stop. I'd say he was probably doing 45 at moment of impact, and a lot more than that before he started slowing down.
That said it was still unforgivable for the driver to leave.

Guy on bike looked to be going way too fast and the driver of the SUV is still at fault. The bike looks like he locked em up for about 40' maybe less, but  the SUV pulled out slow, so that should have given the bike some time. I will always take the side of the bike. This is almost sickening to watch. To say that he had room to veer left, well thats 20/20 hide site. When panic sets in all rationality goes out the window.

Not defending or accusing anybody but at what speed would this be the riders fault?  

The driver is a chicken shit pos for not stopping (given) but what if it was you or me driving.  If the rider was going 65 in a 45?  75?  Looks like dude on bike was going way faster than 45.

make the beast with two backsed up situation.  RIP.

RIP To the rider.

I wrote a whole post that was probably more appropriate to riding techniques more then anything. But i feel like the rider could of had some proactive choices as a street rider that could of spared his life.

+1

RIP rider, comfort to friends and family. 

Driver made a poor choice, then went totally stupid by running. 

It seems to me that bikes have a visual effect much like that of an oncoming train.  The train doesn't *look* to be traveling that fast until it actually passes in front of you.  This seems the case with bikes too.

Nothing excuses leaving the scene.  Mistakes happen, and the driver should have stopped.

I agree with the possibility the driver was drunk/high/impaired and ran to avoid a DUI.  In NC causing a death with your vehicle while impaired can be tried as premeditated murder.

JM

RIP

just done a little bit of Time slot analysis of what video there is and my calculations extimate he hit the vehicle at 46mph and at the begining of the frame he was doing 62mph

just look at the force the impact generated on the SUV which in all respects was effectivly stationary as it was hit side on the bikes mas and velocity pushed the SUV a big distance .

Yes the SUV driver was in the wrong and should be punished .....but the biker was going too fast for safety in the prevailing consitions  and paid a terrible price for his inexperience and poor judgement and that is what the courts will hear too , sure the SUV driver was at initial fault but mitigating that will be the speed of the bike , the defence counsel will argue that point so the perp will get a reduced sentence

from a legal perspective, if the biker was actually going that fast then it will be hard to pin the fault of the wreck solely on the truck.  sure, he drove off and he may be criminally liable for that, but unless the state has a damn good AG working the case, he is probably going to get off on the accident itself.  that video will be dissected again and again.

Oh yeah, any good criminal defense attorney will be all over the video like stink. They will have their accident reconstruction experts come up with their defense friendly version and the DA's office will have theirs. Been there done that. :P But their real problem will be him leaving the scene and then running away only to turn himself in the next day. The defense will turn on the "he was totally freaked out" act and the defendant will be nicely coached to testify to his confused, scared mental state only to finally come around and do the "right thing" the following day... after he sobered up! [roll] But that part won't be mentioned. :P It will all be blamed on a young, inexperienced rider going too fast for night time conditions on a high powered superbike and how the poor confused (and drunk!) driver just accidentally misjudged the rider's closing speed. And if the young rider had any speeding/reckless driving type citations on his record that too will be smeared all over the courtroom. I see a very sad mess on the horizon. 

RIP rider.

Tragic.  And terrifying to watch.

Ever since my last hairy moment, which was a few months after I started riding, I had to redefine what "too fast" means for me.  So now, for me, "too fast" is a relative concept which means "not enough time for evasive action in case an object suddenly enters my path", not "over the speed limit" but on top of making sure I'm under the speed limit.  In that respect, I do think the rider was going "too fast".  I'm not saying I never ride "too fast", but when I do I try to realize it asap and slow down.

That said, that POS cager needs to be punished for what he did.  That is NOT how one enters traffic, and certainly NOT what one does after an accident.  I hope he looses his license for life, and rots in jail forever.  I too suspect he was under the influence which is probably why he fled the scene.  I seriously hope forensic scientists develop a way to test for past (last 24 hour) consumption of alcohol, just like testing hair for drugs etc.

I hope the rider's family finds some comfort knowing the driver will be prosecuted.

Thanks for confirming my suspicions, that he was way over the speed limit.

This video is another reason why my next bike will have ABS.

R.I.P.

this thread makes me sick on at least two levels.

I, for one, love some of the groupthink mentality that automatically rushes to a rider's defense in every scenario, and places all the blame on an "evil cager"  [roll]

They're both at fault from what I can see.  Spending lots of time on a forum assigning degrees of blame is kind of beside the point when someone's dead and someone's looking at some hefty time in prison.  Take this opportunity to reflect on your own competency as a rider and (for most of us) as someone who drives a car.

Ride safe everyone ...  RIP to the rider.

Cheers,
Adam

+1, driver pulled out and probably never saw him coming.... rider was going way too fast for that kind of road.  BOTH operators were lacking judgement and experience and unfortunately.... bad things happen with heavy piles of steel hurtling at each other.  RIP to the rider, but I don't think jail time's the answer for the driver... maybe a driving class, suspended license, and make him get an Moto endorsement... well that'd be better anyway.  Shitty situation though, ride safe folks.

Oh, and while ABS is definitely great... it wouldn't have meant much at all in this situation, maybe a couple MPH reduced speed at impact.  This incident is 100% operator error (between both the rider AND the driver).

Hit and run is reason for the driver to go to jail. 

Agreed ABS would have done nothing in this case.

Clearly the rider was going too fast.  We all do sometimes.  Regardless of fault this is still a tragedy.  To analyze the accident in hope of gaining knowledge to keep us safer is positive.  To point the fault finger is not. 

Assuming the guy was 180 lbs. (he was probably more, he looks big in the photo) then that mean the combined energy at 45 MPH is about 57,000 Joules.

For those who don't know, a 45 MPH strike by a motorcycle with a rider is easily enough to rotate larger passenger vehicles, and flip smaller ones.

If You drive on the street like it's the track you WILL crash, and you may die.
[/quote]

My sentiments exactly. Its unwise to be speeding On busy streets like that with business establishments virtually everywhere. any one could pull up infront of you at any given moment. The cager should be punished for fleeing the scene.

maybe we are all saying "he was going to fast" "he could have swerved" just to lessen the impact this video has on all of us.


Be careful out there, and enjoy the ride. because as you see on this video, any second could be your last.

RIP fellow Ducati Rider

I am always telling folks that I wish every car/truck driver had to ride nothing but a motorcycle for at least six months in traffic before they every get in a cage. It would change the world. I don't know about the rest of you but all the lessons I have learned from 47 years of motorcycle riding apply every single time I get behind the wheel of a car or pick up. I'm certainly not Mr. Wonderful behind the wheel but I think I'm better than most other drivers. Riding a bike (without a street crash) all those years has made me a safer and more considerate driver. I drive a car like no one sees me and everyone is out to kill me... just like on a bike. Just saying. [thumbsup] [Dolph]

As far as this Jeep driver, when is he going to admit he was too drunk to see the speeding motorcycle? [bang] [leo]

Yep. The biker is largely to blame here also. Don't forget it happened at night with lots of lights to distract the SUV driver. Not that he's blameless and leaving the scene is criminal, period. However, it's just nuts to go speeding up a business district road at night.

+1

At night, with lots of distracting lights?  I realize that the metadata on the camera footage shows that it was taken at 8:50 pm but there was plenty of ambient natural light to see what was going on.  That doesn't appear to be an altered histogram in the footage, so I'd say it's safe to assume the SUV driver could/would have seen the biker had/if he been sober and paying attention.

Denver

Rise: 5:36 AM  Set: 8:32 PM

Fair enough, but I'll still stand bye what I said. The video doesn't appear saturated in the way it would if it histogram had been altered. You've seen raw day-time eo fmv feed, right? 

Yes, but video cams pick up more light at dusk, than can be seen with the naked eye.

During dusk, sure.  Not so much at night; you know, when it's dark?   [cheeky]

Regardless, there was more than enough ambient light available for the Jeep driver to see the biker coming.

I disagree with that a bit.  There are times when I find it harder to see things at dusk than at night.  At night there is more contrast to see a head light.  It could be my bad eyes, but I find it that period right after the sun sets while it is still light out to be a pretty dangerous time to drive.   

Tragic and my thoughts and prayers to the young man from Iraq who was here living the American Dream and riding at a quick pace through crowded streets.
He was traveling a good 45 when he hit the SUV after skiding his tires for 60-80 feet.
Running that fast you should at least know that no one is on your 6 and that you can do a lane change like RIGHT NOW


Should the idiot have pulled in front of him, of course not
Are idiots going to pull in front of you  like this on a motorcycle... or car for that matter... of course... nearly EVERY WEEK if you ride a good bit

Sadly his preparation for this might have centered around the Arabic phrase of en shallah (not sure of the spelling) Been to Iraq twice and I can tell you there are not many if any Fast Motorcycles there so he likely had little experience as well