Ok, so, after a year of sitting I have finally fixed my peeling tank liner and leaky fuel lines and am ready to get my bike back on the road. Of course, it's acting up.
Was going to get it inspected. Started it up, let it warm up for 5 minutes, put it in gear and as soon as the clutch is let out, it dies. Again and again and again. Sitting with it idling in neutral, when I give it partial throttle, I can hear it sucking air and kind of chuffing...not smooth.
Once it is around 1/8-1/4 throttle, it smooths out. If I give it about 1/4 throttle and let the clutch out, I can get it moving. But, at low speeds it is surging and rough and will easily die when starting from a stop unless given a lot of throttle. I had put on an aftermarket gas gap, but I noticed a hissing noise from the cap and when unscrewed it would whoosh - so I went back to the stock cap. Problem persists.
What I have done to it:
Took tank off to strip and re-line coating.
Replaced all fuel lines up to the fuel pump.
Removed vacuum petcock and replaced with large 1/4" manual petcock. Capped the nipple on the intake that used to go to vac petcock.
Replaced fuel filter.
Brand new battery.
New exhaust.
New fuel, obviously. :P
If the two vent lines on the bottom of the tank are swapped, would that cause this issue? It seems like it is getting plenty of gas, at higher RPMs it's running very strong, better than it used to. I checked and none of the fittings on the tank are clogged. Vent lines inside this tank are metal, not rubber hoses - as far as I can see, they look good. When I still had the tank off, I ran air through both lines and it came out of the vent holes by the cap just fine. Fuel supply fitting/hole is clear and not blocked at all.
I was really hoping to get her on the road for the long weekend...but now, I don't know. :'(
I had a vacuum leak when mine was acting similar. It didn't want to take throttle, but would if I really twisted. I had to replace my diaphragms too, and I found a MUCH cheaper than Ducati replacement. PM me if you get in there and find the diaphragms are bad.
JM
Quote from: the_Journeyman on June 30, 2011, 04:49:22 PM
I had a vacuum leak when mine was acting similar. It didn't want to take throttle, but would if I really twisted. I had to replace my diaphragms too, and I found a MUCH cheaper than Ducati replacement. PM me if you get in there and find the diaphragms are bad.
JM
When I removed the vac petcock, I just used a silicone cap and the stock clamp to cap the vac nipple on the intake runner. It seemed like it was secure, and it is still there, but IF it isn't air-tight and is causing a vac leak, would that tiny little leak be enough to make it run like that? FYI - The cap I used is McMaster part 92805K14.
Also, what diaphragms are you talking about? The fuel pump? Carbs?
Carb diaphragms.
Not sure a tiny leak would cause that, but I'm not an expert on carbs. I had several cracks in my carb diaphragms, and had pinched a wire bolting the carb tops on. My carbs were also a bit out of synch too, and that cause the same stalling just off idle issue.
JM
Check throttle synch and look for vacuum leaks before anything else. Easiest/cheapest first.
Quote from: the_Journeyman on June 30, 2011, 06:19:08 PM
Carb diaphragms.
Not sure a tiny leak would cause that, but I'm not an expert on carbs. I had several cracks in my carb diaphragms, and had pinched a wire bolting the carb tops on. My carbs were also a bit out of synch too, and that cause the same stalling just off idle issue.
JM
Well, I hope it isn't cracked carb diaphragms. Before the work I did on it, it ran fine (bit lean and under powered but basically fine) except when the fuel filter clogged with bits of liner. So, it's getting a lot more gas than it was before.
Quote from: howie on June 30, 2011, 07:22:54 PM
Check throttle synch and look for vacuum leaks before anything else. Easiest/cheapest first.
How do I check throttle sync? Other than the one vac line I removed (went to vac petcock) and capped - all the other lines appear good, as far as I can see. Also, I am getting pop/backfire on deceleration now - never did that before...
EDIT: Ok, looked at the sync guide from Ducati Suite http://www.ducatisuite.com/carbsynch.html (http://www.ducatisuite.com/carbsynch.html) - This seems a bit...difficult. How do I do all this while keeping the bike running, especially since when I put my kickstand down the bike shuts off?
Another question: If I didn't have this problem before, why would it be doing it now?
Remove the connector on the side stand switch. Jump the two wires. Now the bike will star and run on the sidestand. The diaphragms are probably OK if the bike runs well at speed. It wouldn't hurt to check though. An easy check is, with the air filter removed, accelerate the engine. Watch the slides. They should raise equally. They won't raise much, but they will raise. There is also another filter in system. There is a screen in the fuel inlet at the carbs. Unlikely this is your problem though since your bike runs at speed.
Quote from: howie on July 01, 2011, 03:26:07 AM
Remove the connector on the side stand switch. Jump the two wires. Now the bike will star and run on the sidestand.
Ah, easy enough. [thumbsup]
Quote from: howie on July 01, 2011, 03:26:07 AM
The diaphragms are probably OK if the bike runs well at speed. It wouldn't hurt to check though. An easy check is, with the air filter removed, accelerate the engine. Watch the slides. They should raise equally. They won't raise much, but they will raise.
Checked. Yes, they do raise...not much, but they do. How equal should they be? Does non-equal = out of sync?
Quote from: howie on July 01, 2011, 03:26:07 AM
There is also another filter in system. There is a screen in the fuel inlet at the carbs. Unlikely this is your problem though since your bike runs at speed.
Good to know, is this easy to check?
Would a video (with audio) help diagnose this?
Quote from: Javamoose on July 01, 2011, 03:37:52 AM
Ah, easy enough. [thumbsup]
Checked. Yes, they do raise...not much, but they do. How equal should they be? Does non-equal = out of sync?
Possibly. Try synch first
Good to know, is this easy to check?
A pain in the ass and messy
Would a video (with audio) help diagnose this?
Wouldn't hurt.
Well, looks like I'm spending the long weekend working on this effin' thing instead of riding it... >:(
Local Duc dealer wanted $650 in labor alone to put new timing belts on and tune the carbs. :o [thumbsdown]
Just so I can cross it off the list, if the two hoses (not the supply) got swapped when I put everything back on the tank - that wouldn't be causing this, right?
Doubt it. One is a vent, the other an overflow.
When I was looking at the lines today, checking for vac leaks, I noticed that the clear Fram fuel filter still has a large pocket of air in it that I cannot seem to get rid of. Is this normal?
Yes.
Hmm...so, where exactly am I supposed to connect the vac gauge to for sync'ing? One nipple went to old vac petcock, now capped, I can hook vac gauge to that. But, other nipple goes to the fuel pump? Can't really disconnect that...right? :P
I'm about ready to push this POS off a cliff into the ocean. [bang]
Quote from: Javamoose on July 02, 2011, 08:21:07 PM
Hmm...so, where exactly am I supposed to connect the vac gauge to for sync'ing? One nipple went to old vac petcock, now capped, I can hook vac gauge to that. But, other nipple goes to the fuel pump? Can't really disconnect that...right? :P
I'm about ready to push this POS off a cliff into the ocean. [bang]
There were two nipples, one on each manifold foe the evap. canister. They are either capped or replaced with 5 mm screws.
Quote from: howie on July 02, 2011, 08:27:53 PM
There were two nipples, one on each manifold foe the evap. canister. They are either capped or replaced with 5 mm screws.
Two per runner? Evap canister is still in place. Nipple on left side (as sitting on bike) went to vac petcock, is now capped. Nipple on right side goes to fuel pump.
I don't remember the locations , but a nipple for the pump, a nipple for the fuel shut off and one on each runner for the canister.
If the canister is still in place each hose goes to a nipple. Just follow them. You might even find the canister is part of your problem.
Here is a tutorial:
http://www.ducatisuite.com/carbsynch.html (http://www.ducatisuite.com/carbsynch.html)
Quote from: howie on July 02, 2011, 08:27:53 PM
There were two nipples, one on each manifold foe the evap. canister. They are either capped or replaced with 5 mm screws.
LOL Bro I feel your pain, I really do Im in that boat right now.
sounds like a love hate relationship with these bikes. I too have a 2000 M750. Fortunately I havent had any running issues (fingers crossed) but I have run into issues that I was able to sort out with all the helpful members and info on this forum.
Patience and persistence and you will prevail! Dont give up.
So, last weekend I couldn't even touch the bike I was so pissed off at it. Was looking at it today, it won't even idle on it's own. Pulled the plugs, just to look and replace them with new plugs...this is what I found:
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6146/5920579840_e181c6404e_z.jpg)
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6129/5920017379_e010cbd136_z.jpg)
Soaked. Back before I took the bike off the road, the plugs always looked a little white-ish and dry. Going off "the chart" (http://www.verrill.com/moto/sellingguide/sparkplugs/plugcolorchart.htm (http://www.verrill.com/moto/sellingguide/sparkplugs/plugcolorchart.htm)) - this would be oil fouled? This bike has never (still doesn't) blow any smoke at all when it is running, so I'm assuming I'm not burning oil...
I don't get it, bike used to run fine except when a big chunk of Kreeme would flake and clog the filter. Now that the tank is fixed and it has a fresh filter and lines - nothing but crap. [thumbsdown]
Hi, these problems are such a pain! But don't lose hope, it's a great bike.
Have you replaced or rebuilt the fuel pump? Mine crapped out last year, finally. It had a great 10-year run. My thinking is the thing's vaccuum-operated, so maybe when you're idling it's sucking, but higher RPM's fine.
Either that or time to take apart the carbs. Yep, that's a PIA. Oh first hose a bunch of carb cleaner down the throttle tubes, can't hurt.
Quote from: MongoReturns on July 09, 2011, 06:49:43 PM
Hi, these problems are such a pain! But don't lose hope, it's a great bike.
Have you replaced or rebuilt the fuel pump? Mine crapped out last year, finally. It had a great 10-year run. My thinking is the thing's vaccuum-operated, so maybe when you're idling it's sucking, but higher RPM's fine.
Either that or time to take apart the carbs. Yep, that's a PIA. Oh first hose a bunch of carb cleaner down the throttle tubes, can't hurt.
I haven't re-built the pump. I do have a rebuild kit sitting on my desk, though I was hoping I wasn't going to need to do it. Guess I might as well, give me one more thing to cross off the list.
Can't take off the carbs, I'm not supposed to be working on my bike at my apartment. As it is, six people have complained to the resident manager about me fiddling with the bike (in my own damn parking spot, wtf). I'm friends with the RM, otherwise I would have been fined. [roll]
I do have a can of seafoam, or do you mean the spray cans of carb cleaner? Just blast it down the throttle bodies then start it or spray it down while it is running?
Local duc dealer quoted me $650 in labor (!!!) to replace belts and tune carbs. Way out of my budget. I need new tires IF I can get this pos working again, so I am basically tapped out. I'm just frustrated and about this close to putting it up on craigslist and selling it for whatever I can get out of it. Don't want to do that, I do love to ride this bike, but I am reaching my limit for bullshit...
The plugs look oil fouled in your photo, but to be sure, smell them and make sure it is not gas. If they are oil fouled, unless it happened quickly, replace the plugs and carry a set of extras. Also make sure the breather functions properly. There should be some positive pressure in the crankcase and the air box should be relatively free of oil.
If the fuel pump kit is a Winderosa DO NOT USE IT. The diaphragm will eventually rip. When this happens you vertical cylinder will load up with gasoline.
Quote from: Javamoose on July 09, 2011, 07:08:58 PM
I haven't re-built the pump. I do have a rebuild kit sitting on my desk, though I was hoping I wasn't going to need to do it. Guess I might as well, give me one more thing to cross off the list.
Can't take off the carbs, I'm not supposed to be working on my bike at my apartment. As it is, six people have complained to the resident manager about me fiddling with the bike (in my own damn parking spot, wtf). I'm friends with the RM, otherwise I would have been fined. [roll]
I do have a can of seafoam, or do you mean the spray cans of carb cleaner? Just blast it down the throttle bodies then start it or spray it down while it is running?
Local duc dealer quoted me $650 in labor (!!!) to replace belts and tune carbs. Way out of my budget. I need new tires IF I can get this pos working again, so I am basically tapped out. I'm just frustrated and about this close to putting it up on craigslist and selling it for whatever I can get out of it. Don't want to do that, I do love to ride this bike, but I am reaching my limit for bullshit...
Holy crap I thought I was the last 750 without a rebuilt or new pump! Pretty sure ethanol is killing them. Anyway like Howie says use a Mikuni kit or get Chris Kelley's replacement pump. I don't know anything about Seafoam, I used stuff called "Throttle Body Cleaner" from Valvoline an auto repair shop gave me, when mine wouldn't start a few months ago. Blamo!!, started right up. Active ingredients appear to be Xylene, methyl alcohol, and acetone. McNasty. Spray before you start, let sit for a few minutes, give it another shot, then start. Don't think it's a good idea to spray while it's running.
Sucks re your apt., working on the bikes & safe storage is my priority #1 when looking for places.
Quote from: howie on July 09, 2011, 07:25:49 PM
The plugs look oil fouled in your photo, but to be sure, smell them and make sure it is not gas. If they are oil fouled, unless it happened quickly, replace the plugs and carry a set of extras. Also make sure the breather functions properly. There should be some positive pressure in the crankcase and the air box should be relatively free of oil.
If the fuel pump kit is a Winderosa DO NOT USE IT. The diaphragm will eventually rip. When this happens you vertical cylinder will load up with gasoline.
Plugs smell of gas and oil. Plugs were always white-ish/brown when it was running, bike sat for a year and stopped getting started once a week about 8 months ago (batt. died). When I started working on it last week to get it back on the road, I didn't check the plugs...so not sure how or when they got this bad. It's been run all of three times, total of maybe 30 minutes, in the past few weeks.
How do I make sure the breather works? There is a little bit of oil in the airbox. Hose running to the airbox from the breather system is a little rough, some cracks where it is clamped onto the barb fitting...but doesn't appear to be holes.
All vac line have been traced and all look great. No cracks, no holes, all are connected.
I bought the Mikuni kit. Of course, though, the set of metric hex head wrenches I have are long t-handle ones. I gotta go buy a set of L-wrenches to get that fuel pump off.
Quote from: MongoReturns on July 09, 2011, 07:50:00 PM
Holy crap I thought I was the last 750 without a rebuilt or new pump! Pretty sure ethanol is killing them. Anyway like Howie says use a Mikuni kit or get Chris Kelley's replacement pump. I don't know anything about Seafoam, I used stuff called "Throttle Body Cleaner" from Valvoline an auto repair shop gave me, when mine wouldn't start a few months ago. Blamo!!, started right up. Active ingredients appear to be Xylene, methyl alcohol, and acetone. McNasty. Spray before you start, let sit for a few minutes, give it another shot, then start. Don't think it's a good idea to spray while it's running.
Sucks re your apt., working on the bikes & safe storage is my priority #1 when looking for places.
I'll try hitting it with carb cleaner tomorrow, see if that helps.
Off topic:
It's a fantastic apartment with a great view. Bike is secure. Only downside to the place (as with all high rises) - no working on vehicles.
Typical morning, view from my lanai:
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6015/5920829100_949e178d90_z.jpg)
Like I said some, positive crankcase pressure No spec that I know of, a little like knowing when your steak is done without using a thermometer or cutting it. Oil film in the airbox is not a worry. Puddles are. Chances are real good your fouled plugs are a result of...well... truing to start a bike after long storage. Ducs need really good plugs.
I have an excellent view of my neighbors; nope, no hot chicks either. Yep, your plugs look like crap - do you keep the oil at the bottom of the lower tick mark? Being cheap as dirt, I'd hit those with some fine-grit sandpaper.
Getting the fuel pump off kinda sucks - when you put it back together, make sure the two halfs are aligned right - I was off by a side, and wondered why it didn't fit back in the bike.
Good luck with the cleaner - if not the pump, my money's on a gummied carb.
Quote from: howie on July 09, 2011, 08:55:50 PM
Like I said some, positive crankcase pressure No spec that I know of, a little like knowing when your steak is done without using a thermometer or cutting it. Oil film in the airbox is not a worry. Puddles are. Chances are real good your fouled plugs are a result of...well... truing to start a bike after long storage. Ducs need really good plugs.
No puddles, so, that's good. [thumbsup] I went with the same Champion plugs that were in there...for the new ones I put in.
Quote from: MongoReturns on July 09, 2011, 09:17:36 PM
I have an excellent view of my neighbors; nope, no hot chicks either. Yep, your plugs look like crap - do you keep the oil at the bottom of the lower tick mark? Being cheap as dirt, I'd hit those with some fine-grit sandpaper.
Getting the fuel pump off kinda sucks - when you put it back together, make sure the two halfs are aligned right - I was off by a side, and wondered why it didn't fit back in the bike.
Good luck with the cleaner - if not the pump, my money's on a gummied carb.
Bought some cleaner, going to try it tomorrow. Funny, on the can, in bold, it says "DO NOT SPRAY DOWN CARB THROAT WITH ENGINE OFF". But, you're not the only one on this forum that says to spray, sit/soak, spray and start. So, that's what I'll do.
Thanks for the tip on the pump, going to pull that and do the re-build just for peace of mind...