Ducati Monster Forum

My concern is encountering a speed wobble aka "tank slapper" as I never have but havent been riding long enough to feel confident that I never will. I also knew a guy who went down and died due to a tank slapper on the highway. Is having optimal suspension enough? If I dont exceed 65Mph do I need a steering damper? I dont typically do high speed runs or any track days but I am partial to quick acceleration. Should I invest in a steering damper? Will it actually prevent a Tank Slapper? If I have my suspension looked at and validated is that enough? ( or will messing with a stable suspension setup make things worse?) Any thoughts on this topic would be greatly appreciated.

Wow, lots of questions.

You don't *need* a steering damper.  Lots of folks ride without them and without any incidents. That said, it sounds like you *should* get one, if only for piece of mind.

Properly set up suspension will obviate some of the need for a damper.  A properly set-up bike is less likely to have a slapper, though it still can.  But yes, there is a risk that playing around with suspension (even by a professional) can either go wrong or can introduce other variables that might make a tank slapper more likely.  Take it to a professional and you'll be fine.    Even if your suspension is properly set, there are certain situations where your bike can easily go into a tank slapper, even under 65 mph.  Plenty of folks have had tank slappers at slower speeds than that.

A damper might not completely prevent any and all tank slappers, but if your bike starts into a tank slapper, in most circumstances, a damper will smooth it out.  

A speed wobble is not a tank slapper.  A tank slapper is a very specific thing.  It can start as a front end bobble (which happen all the time), but quickly increases to where your bars are oscillating  back and forth and literally slapping the tank.  

I'm a big proponent of steering dampers.  I think of them as insurance.  You can ride for decades and never have a tank slapper, but that one time where you wish you had a damper can be a nasty one.  In your situation, given that you know someone who died from a slapper, I'd invest in one just for the confidence it would provide.   However, they should never be used to mask an underlying suspenion problem.  If you're looking to cure head shake, a damper is not the answer.  

Until recently, I thought dampers were overpriced bling.  I say recently, because a couple weeks ago I got a tankslapper at 80mph and landed on my face.  Now I'm a believer  ;D.

i had problems on my rc51 out of the corners whacking the throttle. I had a scotts  for that and never had a problem after that. Tank slappers are pretty nerve wracking

As Spidey says, spend the money on TUNING YOUR SUSPENSION for YOU . . . I did that on my 620 and NO more tank slappers and usually I ride more or less at the same speeds you do . ..  rarely seeing over 70mph . . .

Or maybe, one the suspension tune with a set of Showas and fine tune those

A steering damper in addition to good suspension is a big plus.  A steering damper as a cure for bad suspension is a big negative.  Get your suspension right first.  You should not NEED a damper.

Ding Ding  [thumbsup]

Very much appreciate the input Gents! But the OP was 4 years ago so I'm sorted. [thumbsup]

Hehehe.  I find this very funny.

Reminds me of a rejection letter I got for a job solicitation letter I sent when I was twenties.  The rejection letter was sent two years after they received my inquiry.  I remember thinking, "Why even bother replying?"  All that did was call attention to the fact that they didn't reply.

All I want to know is if you bought into the damper voodoo? [laugh] [laugh] [laugh] [laugh]

No damper. Guess my suspension is proper !

The problem was that you were walking the throttle. I have a RC51 and never experienced a tank slapper even at a intermediate track pace. I did have a little wobble but nothing of concern also my suspension was tuned.

Nah did the same thing on the mille and that had more torque than the rc. The mille did have much better suspension, however a damper is cheaper than proper fork work/replacing.

yet fixes not a thing.

Where's the economy?

Agreed. Steering damper should not be used as a band-aid for bad suspension. It should be used as a safeguard/insurance if a properly setup suspension is overcome by the surface.

Get the suspension properly setup for rider weight and riding style, work on correct body position, keep weight off the bars and ride smooth, and the bike will almost always do what you tell it to. The bike wants to stay up and be stable. Its the rider that makes it unstable if not ridden correctly.

Lots of good suggestions in this thread..

Properly set-up suspension is key as stated.   A steering damper will just mask a bigger problem.  I like steering dampers for peace of mind on bikes I ride at a brisk pace.

IMO, once you get the suspension set-up correctly then get the damper...

Okay.
Then why do I see dampers on race bikes that are ridden by pros?
Even the new Kaki H2 comes with dampers

Because the pros dont have their suspension set up correctly. The H2 comes standard with bad suspension.

Because race bikes are stressed well past the level of what a properly set up street suspension will ever see.

A large portion of what ends up on a bike for the street is 'fashion'.

Riding any sportbike at a brisk pace without a damper is a recipe for disaster IMO, regardless of suspension set-up.

Hopefully that statement above on the pros not having their suspension set-up properly is tongue in cheek. Even most club racers have properly set-up suspension.

I'd agree that for most street bikes, a damper isn't needed though. Suspension first, then damper if it makes you feel better (and the bike has sportbike geometry). The OP (years ago) was discussing an M620 though, with non-adjustable suspension. In that case, a damper is probably the cheaper route, although obviously not the best route functionally.

The M796 front end seem very light.
The M696 is even lighter.
Neither has adjustable front suspension.
At around 85 mph on a windy day the palms get sweaty.

Are you gripping the bars tighter to counteract the wind so the bike will go straight, hence your palm is sweating? If so, that's the opposite of what you want to do. Loose your grip on the bar and lean into the wind to keep the bike on the intended course.

Agreed.

Maybe this video will help people out. Notice Dave Moss, expert suspension tuner, tunes out the faults in the suspension before dialing up the steering damper. He also says "those GPRs should never go past 3." GPRs can have a range of 1-20. So even at race speeds you don't need to turn up the damper on high, therefore at street speeds it's probably not needed at all, given if the suspension is set up properly. 


http://youtu.be/zqpVtJQxFSc (http://youtu.be/zqpVtJQxFSc)

I would have to disagree regarding riding at a brisk pace without a damper. My RC51 is fine at a mid pack+ intermediate group on track days. I will find out at the end of this month if my s2r1000 will be fine also as I have another track day.

I did go riding at a quick pace yesterday where I encountered bumps and dips mid corner while on throttle. Everything was fine. I can probably post a video later once I sort through it.

The first two monster frame types were prone to tank slappers, heard it from the factory due to too little weight over front with that geometry. Thats why many raised rear or lowered front to adjust weight distro. Happened to me on a 99 m900.

The palms are not actually sweaty.
I was implying that the bikes front end feels a light and lose.

Speed is relative I guess. I would consider mid-pack intermediate group track day pace brisk on the street (I ride conservatively on the street), but not on the track.

That said, even with good suspension set-up, hit a bump wrong with the front end light, and you could be in a tankslapper pretty quickly. Too much risk for me, especially on the street, where bumps, potholes, etc are all too common...and where the consequences of crashing are generally much higher.

Keep in mind, I'm talking about a tankslapper...lock to lock violent bar movement, not minor to moderate head shake.

Read up on Kenny Anderson's accident that killed him. Tank slapper started it all. I will always run dampers on bikes with sportbike geometry. You don't need them, until you do.

I wouldn't ride my track pace on the street. My brisk street speed is not the same as brisk track speed. 

I am still relatively new to riding my S2R1000. That said, I know most riders don't ride with the correct form and technique so they get "head shakes" where they wouldn't if they had developed skills.

I think posters in this thread are actually talking about 3 different types of movements in the front end; movement cause by unsmooth surface such as grooved roads or gusts of wind (minor), Movement cause up to moderate holes in the surface (minor), and movement cause by going over moderate holes while leaned over (major). I think most posters are speaking about the 2 minor ones that I've described which requires no steering damper to ride away safety given if they have the right technique and maybe suspension.

I do feel like the front is light on my bike but covering up the problem with a damper is not the solution.

My street bike is a Guzzi, so I clearly don't ride any sort of track pace on the street either!  [laugh]

Agreed on the types of movements being discussed as well. A lot of people do seem to confuse minor to moderate headshake with tankslappers, the latter of which you aren't going to ride out of 95% of the time.

My old M900 had a damper, but it didn't have adjustable suspension, so the damper was the cheaper way to make it "feel" better, and it worked fine. Spending more $$ on the suspension would have been the better option for sure though. Now I won't even buy a bike that doesn't have adjustable suspension.

Relax and loosen your grip. 

JM