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Moto Board => Racing & Trackdays => Topic started by: fastwin on July 11, 2011, 04:04:06 PM



Title: This isn't good
Post by: fastwin on July 11, 2011, 04:04:06 PM
Wow. Out of nowhere.

http://www.cyclenews.com/articles/road-racing/2011/07/11/vir-cancelled-ama-pro-road-racing-eight-rounds/ (http://www.cyclenews.com/articles/road-racing/2011/07/11/vir-cancelled-ama-pro-road-racing-eight-rounds/)

I'm thinking breach of contract here. Like the article says the AMA wouldn't have had it on the schedule if the ink wasn't dry.

More...

http://www.cyclenews.com/articles/road-racing/2011/07/11/atlas-comments-on-vir-cancellation/ (http://www.cyclenews.com/articles/road-racing/2011/07/11/atlas-comments-on-vir-cancellation/)




Title: Re: This isn't good
Post by: bdfinally on July 11, 2011, 04:30:22 PM
I'm truly bummed. I've been there every year since they started. I grew up in the area and attended WERA races when they were actually ERA races back at the original track. The current management is notorious for being difficult to deal with. I've heard that personally from people running beverage vending to bike dealers at the track. I'm afraid it's going to be more that a single missed year before AMA shows up there again. Damn!

http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=45247 (http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=45247)


Title: Re: This isn't good
Post by: fastwin on July 12, 2011, 05:14:01 AM
Yep, I'm thinking VIR shot themselves in both feet with that little stunt. I don't see AMA/DMG having anything else to do with them. Expect maybe in a court of law! They seriously have messed up the season for all the classes. Obviously every rider and team was counting on all the races on the schedule being run. AMA will have to do some hard thinking real quick to come up with a do-able plan to make up for VIR going bye bye. Not cool. >:(


Title: Re: This isn't good
Post by: avizpls on July 12, 2011, 05:26:08 AM
AMA+

VIR-never to get a penny from me. And  I really wanted to ride that track next season.


Title: Re: This isn't good
Post by: mitt on July 12, 2011, 09:02:10 AM
What would provoke a track to do this?  As a series boss, I would never sign anything with a track that did this to a series 1 month before the race...


mitt


Title: Re: This isn't good
Post by: ducatiz on July 12, 2011, 09:08:49 AM
very strange..  interested to see what comes out of this


Title: Re: This isn't good
Post by: gm2 on July 12, 2011, 09:17:00 AM
not necessarily a good reason, but there's got to be a reason.  and it for sure has to do with $$.


Title: Re: This isn't good
Post by: Spidey on July 12, 2011, 09:49:36 AM
I just don't get it.     ???


Title: Re: This isn't good
Post by: bdfinally on July 12, 2011, 11:41:35 AM
I don't think anyone gets it yet. There's talk of adding a 3rd race to the NJMP w/e, but one of their principals is the guy behind VIR

http://moto-racing.speedtv.com/article/ama-sbk-david-atlas-on-vir-cancellation-options (http://moto-racing.speedtv.com/article/ama-sbk-david-atlas-on-vir-cancellation-options)


Title: Re: This isn't good
Post by: Spidey on July 12, 2011, 12:27:03 PM
http://moto-racing.speedtv.com/article/ama-sbk-david-atlas-on-vir-cancellation-options (http://moto-racing.speedtv.com/article/ama-sbk-david-atlas-on-vir-cancellation-options)

I hate business-speak.  That was a two page interview in which he didn't say a single thing.  I thought only lawyers did that shit.


Title: Re: This isn't good
Post by: bdfinally on July 12, 2011, 01:35:24 PM
Yep, but it was a speedtv interview...Toby & Jules might have been a little more forceful in getting to the bottom of things. ;)


Title: Re: This isn't good
Post by: fastwin on July 12, 2011, 03:54:47 PM
All I see is total bullshit. And I don't see where AMA/DMG did anything wrong. I'd be the first to throw stones but I just don't see it. Long time venue for the series, signed contract, dried ink, schedule has been out there for all to see for months and VIR pulls this bullshit? I'm not getting it.[bang] Makes no sense. Like what the hell couldn't they work out that was so big a deal that VIR says screw you, we're done? And takes the chance of being drug into court over breach of contract? What leg do they think they have to stand on? It potentially tosses all the class championships into turmoil. Again, hopefully AMA/DMG will come up with something to satisfy the teams and riders as well as their contract with Speed TV.


Title: Re: This isn't good
Post by: zooom on July 12, 2011, 03:57:29 PM
there HAS to be something behind this decision...


Title: Re: This isn't good
Post by: ducatiz on July 12, 2011, 04:32:26 PM
Once again it sounds like DMG is full of it:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/23634519/VIR%20Statement.pdf (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/23634519/VIR%20Statement.pdf)

...apparently no "signed contract."

Quote
"VIR has received a number of inquiries and expressions of disappointment regarding
the lack of a 2011 AMA Pro Racing event at VIR. As with any disagreement, there are
two sides to every story. We want to make it clear that the decision was not one-sided,
as David Atlas' remarks have implied, and that VIR made numerous proposals to AMA
Pro Racing to keep this event on schedule. Due to our 10 year history with this
premiere event, we are as disappointed by this outcome as most of those we have
heard from.
VIR has worked hard to bring the event to fruition for months. Despite requests by VIR
beginning in December 2010, AMA Pro Racing did not deliver its proposed contract for
the 2011 event to VIR until early June 2011. Resulting discussions made it apparent
that insufficient time remained to negotiate the new terms in the proposed contract and,
if agreement were reached, to plan, promote and conduct the event in a professional
manner.
In an effort to preserve the date, VIR went to extraordinary lengths to reach an
alternative agreement with AMA Pro Racing, which AMA Pro Racing chose to reject.
Given these circumstances, we had no choice but to take the date off the calendar and
notify the public promptly."


Title: Re: This isn't good
Post by: mitt on July 12, 2011, 06:25:18 PM
Once again it sounds like DMG is full of it:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/23634519/VIR%20Statement.pdf (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/23634519/VIR%20Statement.pdf)

...apparently no "signed contract."


Based on AMA/DMG recent history, I immediately figured it was them and not VIR (the truth is probably both of them to some %).  It is always the guilty that is the first one to go public with a defense, which it seemed like DMG did.


mitt


Title: Re: This isn't good
Post by: fastwin on July 12, 2011, 06:27:22 PM
Well that's not good news either. Sounds like a classic head banging contest where no one wins. Feel sorry for the riders and teams who have put so much into the season only to be left hanging out in the breeze as far as their championship plans go. I had hopes that DMG/AMA was not at fault and they acted like the contract for this event was a done deal as of late 2010, therefore it made it onto the schedule like all the other races.

It will be interesting to see what comes forward in the next few days and weeks. I am sure the spin doctors will have their way with this. As others have said VIR management can be difficult to deal with and I haven't seen this kind of problem regarding DMG/AMA with other venues. Guess time will tell. But for damn sure this race ain't happening. [bang] :P Sad.


Title: Re: This isn't good
Post by: zooom on July 13, 2011, 07:05:34 AM
  As others have said VIR management can be difficult to deal with and I haven't seen this kind of problem regarding DMG/AMA with other venues. Guess time will tell. 

well, I can personally say from dealing with VIR for our club track dates thru Conerspeed, VIR isn't all THAT hard to deal with really. They are up front about laying out schedules and terms of contract and fees with us, and there has always been a specific timeframe for which to make all conditions and provisions and so forth to be dealt with. It sounds to me, based on my knowledge, they bent over backwards to help AMA/DMG out, because they locked in our April and September dates down back in early January. I can't seem to necessarily fault VIR as being "difficult" in this case.


Title: Re: This isn't good
Post by: gm2 on July 13, 2011, 08:57:44 AM
if you request a contract in December but receive it in June.. and there is always (a month or two of) back and forth once you actually lay hands on the document.. that's just not enough time.


Title: Re: This isn't good
Post by: fastwin on July 13, 2011, 09:10:14 AM
Either way, regardless who is actually at fault, I feel bad for the riders and teams. There are some really close championship races going on and I am sure they all were counting on the full schedule of races to be run. And yes, there are two sides to every story. Now it's just a matter of who is telling the truth and who takes who to court. [bang] Sad.


Title: Re: This isn't good
Post by: zooom on July 13, 2011, 11:05:17 AM
if you request a contract in December but receive it in June.. and there is always (a month or two of) back and forth once you actually lay hands on the document.. that's just not enough time.

 I am sure DMG requested a contract before then, or at least, if they are smart in terms of promoting and so forth, they would normally have asked for a contract at the closure of the previous season with attendance numbers and so forth to help dictate the grounds or negotiations in that contract. VIR does their best to accomodate sanctioned racing bodies with the scheduling of their events 1st, before farming the remainder of open dates out to schools and track orgs, hence why we have to wait until January for to formally recieve our dates. Ask on the WERA or CCS or NASA or SCCA forums of any of the other event racing series that are hosted there repeatedly if they have issues.

also, FWIW, AMA/DMG did themselves no good service or favors in this issue by not following up with VIR and yet promoting and scheduling an event that was not confirmed or contracted.


Title: Re: This isn't good
Post by: gm2 on July 14, 2011, 09:51:37 AM
I am sure DMG requested a contract before then, or at least, if they are smart in terms of promoting and so forth, they would normally have asked for a contract at the closure of the previous season with attendance numbers and so forth to help dictate the grounds or negotiations in that contract. VIR does their best to accomodate sanctioned racing bodies with the scheduling of their events 1st, before farming the remainder of open dates out to schools and track orgs, hence why we have to wait until January for to formally recieve our dates. Ask on the WERA or CCS or NASA or SCCA forums of any of the other event racing series that are hosted there repeatedly if they have issues.

also, FWIW, AMA/DMG did themselves no good service or favors in this issue by not following up with VIR and yet promoting and scheduling an event that was not confirmed or contracted.

it was VIR that requested the contract in December, not DMG


Title: Re: This isn't good
Post by: Speeddog on July 14, 2011, 02:14:41 PM
FWIW, Ulrich gives his personal opinion:
http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=45288 (http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=45288)



Title: Re: This isn't good
Post by: ducpainter on July 14, 2011, 04:18:00 PM
There's a saying about opinions.


Title: Re: This isn't good
Post by: derby on July 14, 2011, 07:56:34 PM
There's a saying about opinions.

indeed, but there is a history here...

m1 promoted a successful event for years at road atlanta. the track took promotions in house, attendance declined, and now there's no event at road atlanta.

when road atlanta non-renewed m1's contract, they took they're show (the big kahuna nationals) to vir. after years of profitable events, vir non-renewed m1's contract and took promotions in house. now there's no event at vir.


Title: Re: This isn't good
Post by: bdfinally on July 14, 2011, 08:56:49 PM
Ahhh, they found a place holder for the canceled event. It reads like this was a scheduled event, but I've never seen them there that weekend.

Quote
The American Historic Racing Motorcycle Association will still be at Virginia International Raceway the weekend of Aug. 12-14 although the AMA Pro Racing event was canceled.

This year, the vintage motorcycle racing organization expects to have more than 100 competitors with both vintage and modern motorcycles and sidecars, according to a news release.

The association invites motorcycle enthusiasts, clubs and spectators to watch a full round of practice Friday followed by racing Saturday and Sunday that weekend.


http://www2.godanriver.com/sports/2011/jul/14/vintage-motorcycle-racing-welcomes-fans-vir-ar-1173755/ (http://www2.godanriver.com/sports/2011/jul/14/vintage-motorcycle-racing-welcomes-fans-vir-ar-1173755/)

$30 for 3 days


Title: Re: This isn't good
Post by: bdfinally on July 15, 2011, 10:11:48 AM
That didn't take long, in fact suit was filed by VIR on July 5th

http://roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=45303 (http://roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=45303)


Title: Re: This isn't good
Post by: ducatiz on July 15, 2011, 10:42:43 AM
That didn't take long, in fact suit was filed by VIR on July 5th

http://roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=45303 (http://roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=45303)

Does someone have a copy of the filing?  Very interesting...


Title: Re: This isn't good
Post by: ducpainter on July 15, 2011, 12:05:49 PM
indeed, but there is a history here...

m1 promoted a successful event for years at road atlanta. the track took promotions in house, attendance declined, and now there's no event at road atlanta.

when road atlanta non-renewed m1's contract, they took they're show (the big kahuna nationals) to vir. after years of profitable events, vir non-renewed m1's contract and took promotions in house. now there's no event at vir.
The history doesn't pertain to contracts not being tendered as agreed. Only the promotion of the event, and as Mr. Ulrich states...greed.

If in fact DMG didn't make a contract available until June, and the terms were markedly different as stated in the linked article...http://www.gazettevirginian.com/index.php/news/34-news/3536-vir-files-lawsuit-over-contract (http://www.gazettevirginian.com/index.php/news/34-news/3536-vir-files-lawsuit-over-contract)
It's all on DMG IMO.

In the end it's all about money...always is.



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