Ducati Monster Forum

supposedly there'll be an announcement today about BBoz riding an LCR Honda at laguna.

forecast says partly cloudy and in the 60s on sunday.  new softer rears coming this weekend, but that forecast is not exactly good.

qualifying will be (not live) on tv again, 8:00pm PT.  race is on at 2:00pm PT sunday.

...and I'll be sitting in the corkscrew as usual [thumbsup]

The 60s? That's crazy. Wasn't it just a couple of years ago it was 105+ in the shade at the LS MotoGP? I thought I had  [bang] weather where I live! [laugh]

is that the monterey forecast or the at-the-track forecast?

both so far, give or take a few degrees

tho now this one is saying 60 and sunny:
http://www.myweather2.com/Motor-Racing/United-States-Of-America/Laguna-Seca-Circuit.aspx?sday=6 (http://www.myweather2.com/Motor-Racing/United-States-Of-America/Laguna-Seca-Circuit.aspx?sday=6)

either way, not warm.

Not too different from last year, IIRC.

Laguna can be bone-chilling cold or furnace hot.

I was counting on the delivery of the softer rear tires to disturb the feng shui and produce record-hot conditions.

http://superbikeplanet.com/2011/Jul/110719155honda.htm (http://superbikeplanet.com/2011/Jul/110719155honda.htm)

(https://s3.amazonaws.com/twitpic/photos/full/350270070.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAJF3XCCKACR3QDMOA&Expires=1311099674&Signature=N5HIgt1CTXaQOF85NUEsN9k5FiI%3D)

If BBoz beats Elias, that'll be make the beast with two backsed up.  I'll be happy, but that'll be make the beast with two backsed up. 

toni has this race and one more before he gets the boot.  i'm sure this is lucio's way of lighting an even bigger fire under his ass.

BBoz, two races in one day? what is this, WSBK?

What an awesome weekend it'll be.  [thumbsup]

"King" Kenny will be taking to the tracks on all three days  [Dolph]
http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2011/Kenny+Roberts+to+ride+all+three+days (http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2011/Kenny+Roberts+to+ride+all+three+days)
I'll bet he'll post better time than Elias!

...or Rossi, at this rate.

Motomatters:  It is understood that no extra bikes will be laid on for Bostrom: the American will take one of Toni Elias' two Honda RC212Vs, leaving both Elias and Bostrom with a single bike to compete on.

Ouch. 

They better not crash.

It's "state the obvious day" at the dmf.

Huh, I did not know that. Guess I'm clueless as usual.

My comments were meant to be read in order based on my reply to Spidey:

JB talking about how they won in 2008.

http://motomatters.com/interview/2011/07/21/jeremy_burgess_on_laguna_2008_how_valent.html (http://motomatters.com/interview/2011/07/21/jeremy_burgess_on_laguna_2008_how_valent.html)


"It's a shitty little race track with low gearing and high RPM, and no rest at all, so it's quite difficult, and to be perfectly fair it's highly undesirable for the sort of motorcycles we're riding. And add to that the topography of the place, and it's something that European riders when they first go there are terrified of.

Certainly there are elevation changes where the bikes would leave the ground and do all sorts of things. I mean it's lovely to have a racetrack like that, but it's really probably not a great racetrack. It created a great race on that particular day, mind you, and everyone said there should definitely be more races like them - everybody except Casey."

...

"Dani's an extremely fast rider, but a shockingly poor racer."


several other gems in there  ;)
and some really interesting talk about laguna in general

http://superbikeplanet.com/image/2011/motogp/laguna/1/ (http://superbikeplanet.com/image/2011/motogp/laguna/1/)

(http://superbikeplanet.com/image/2011/motogp/laguna/1/krm11.jpg)

I still get chicken skin when I see that Yamerhamer Yellow 2 smoke.  [thumbsup]

1 Casey Stoner Repsol Honda Honda RC212V 1:22.300
2 Dani Pedrosa Repsol Honda Honda RC212V 1:22.402
3 Jorge Lorenzo Yamaha Factory Racing Yamaha M1 1:22.420
4 Ben Spies Yamaha Factory Racing Yamaha M1 1:22.806
5 Andrea Dovizioso Repsol Honda Honda RC212V 1:22.911
6 Marco Simoncelli San Carlo Honda Gresini Honda RC212V 1:23.210
7 Nicky Hayden Ducati Marlboro Ducati GP11 1:23.297
8 Colin Edwards Monster Yamaha Tech 3 Yamaha M1 1:23.459
9 Valentino Rossi Ducati Marlboro Ducati GP11 1:23.467
10 Alvara Bautista Rizla Suzuki Suzuki GSV-R 1:23.529
11 Hector Barbera Aspar Team Ducati GP11 1:23.596
12 Randy De Puniet Pramac Racing Ducati GP11 1:23.807
13 Cal Crutchlow Monster Yamaha Tech 3 Yamaha M1 1:24.018
14 Toni Elias LCR Honda Honda RC212V 1:24.324
15 Loris Capirossi Pramac Racing Ducati GP11 1:24.566
16 Karel Abraham Cardion AB MotoRacing Ducati GP11 1:24.682
17 Hiroshi Aoyama San Carlo Honda Gresini Honda RC212V 1:25.324
18 Benny Bostrom LCR Honda Honda RC212V 1:27.286


Pedrosa crashed unhurt in the session, re-mounted, wiped the bike off and re-joined the session.

Benny?

new low exit exhaust on the gp11.1 looks awesome!

Yeah. WTF?

Perhaps Soup was just having some fun with BBoz.  [laugh]

I was looking at SBKplanet and their pics of the Laguna action. Ran across one of Rossi's bike and noticed the "screen" inserts at the exhaust outlets.

Check it out: http://www.superbikeplanet.com/image/2011/motogp/laguna/tim02/p05.htm (http://www.superbikeplanet.com/image/2011/motogp/laguna/tim02/p05.htm)

Never noticed that before. Is that the DP "spark arrestor" exhaust to comply with off road riding regs?? [laugh]

The Ducs have had those for a while, I think they coincided with the 6 engines/year deal.

Keeps the kitty litter out.

Qualy

1   Jorge Lorenzo      Yamaha Factory Racing     Yamaha M1      1:21.202
2   Casey Stoner       Repsol Honda                  Honda RC212V   1:21.274
3   Dani Pedrosa        Repsol Honda                  Honda RC212V   1:21.385
4   Ben Spies           Yamaha Factory Racing      Yamaha M1      1:21.578
5   Marco Simoncelli   San Carlo Honda Gresini     Honda RC212V   1:21.696
6   Andrea Dovizioso   Repsol Honda                  Honda RC212V   1:21.731
7   Valentino Rossi     Ducati Marlboro               Ducati GP11       1:22.235
8   Hector Barbera     Aspar Team                     Ducati GP11      1:22.238
9   Nicky Hayden        Ducati Marlboro              Ducati GP11      1:22.271
10   Cal Crutchlow      Monster Yamaha Tech 3   Yamaha M1      1:22.385
11   Colin Edwards      Monster Yamaha Tech 3   Yamaha M1      1:22.520
12   Alvara Bautista    Rizla Suzuki                     Suzuki GSV-R   1:22.669
13   Karel Abraham     Cardion AB MotoRacing      Ducati GP11      1:22.893
14   Hiroshi Aoyama    San Carlo Honda Gresini     Honda RC212V   1:22.937
15   Randy De Puniet   Pramac Racing                Ducati GP11      1:23.961
16   Loris Capirossi     Pramac Racing                  Ducati GP11     1:23.876
17   Toni Elias           LCR Honda                       Honda RC212V   1:24.156
18   Ben Bostrom       LCR Honda                       Honda RC212V   1:25.291

Whoreghey had a huge highside. The Ben lowsided before running a truly fast lap. Tough qualy in general.

There was a good bit of action all weekend long.

I have high hopes for Spies.

Looked like Hayden was running the GP11 chassis in warm up. Wonder if he preferred it over the 11.1

Good race for Stoner. [thumbsup] He earned it. And can someone please send The Ben to a Don Garlitt's drag racing school so he can get into and out of the first turn better than mid pack? [laugh] Super Sic handed him a spot by tossing it and he made nice moves on Vale and Dovi. Just wonder what he could do if he was 2-3rd in/out the first turn? [Dolph]

Interesting to see Rizoma the main sponsor on Boz's LCR Honda.

I sure like the Euro audio feed a hundred times better than the Speed crew. [bang] Suppose we have that to look forward to again at Indy. :P

That was a ballsy pass Stoner put on Lorenzo.
The pass on Pedrosa was a hard pass, but fair enough, his 'team mate' was holding him up.

Lorenzo looked a bit shell shocked in the post race interview, wonder if it was the way Stoner gapped him so quickly after passing him. I wonder how much his practice crash affected him later in the race. He set an excellent pace and looked dominant for most of the race. Lorenzos Yamaha looked on rails, but Stoner looked like he had to grab the Honda by the scruff of the neck.

Hayden looked real unhappy in the pits after talking to Rossi. Did anyone see that?

We got a hell of a championship this year.
Another great race, different, but great.

Missed the Hayden-Rossi thing after the race but I watched it on Speed so I'm sure they didn't show it. Don't know how either Duc rider could be very happy. And the Speed coverage hardly ever showed the Rossi-Hayden battle. It was a no show. Maybe something happened on the track between them that TV never showed??

Well considering Nicky was on Rossi's rear at the beginning of the last lap and finished .7 back at the end, I'm assuming there was an attempted pass of some sort that didn't pan out.  I watched it via motogp.com and didn't see any coverage related to it other than the conversation in the pits.  Rossi gave him a hug though /shrug.  I don't know if it was anything awful.

good race again, and i'm going to dl the euro version as soon as it's out... wth is wrong with speed's camera direction?  why the hell do they spend time airing shots of the crowd, the pit, and other random crap while a race is going on?  if you're going to take your camera off the race, at least make it random shots of the umbrella girls or the hot wife/gf of a racer or something.

Spies' start troubles explained.

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2011/Jul/110724h.htm (http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2011/Jul/110724h.htm)

I think Hayden was upset in general, not at Rossi.  The motopg.com coverage had the exchange in the pits, and it was something about who was in front of who this race vs the previous race.

Any news why Ben was upset at his bike/pit during the race?  The commentators thought he had bike problems, but then he seemed to up his pace and there was no more mention of it.

OK race overall.  I think the track is more to blame and not the bikes on the lack of excitement this time.


mitt

You mean Ben Bostrom or Spies?

Boz was interviewed on the Speed coverage in his garage and he blamed the whole thing on himself. He blew a turn, ran into the gravel and he said he had trouble getting the bike back in gear. Not sure why. I don't think the bike was un-ridable. He obviously got it back to the pits. He did mention problems with the "rider" several times and said the bike was awesome. Guess he parked it instead of needlessly pushing and crashing it and was more concerned about the SBK race. That's the way it sounded.

The Ben (Spies).

I am still reading on Soup, so it is probably there somewhere, just need to find it.

Here it is from Soup:

"Q At one point, when you came out of that last corner, it looked like you were shaking your head a little bit. What was that all about?

A No, it was just trying to get to my guys with the pit board to let them know that I wanted my gap to Dovi. I was just, I had a gap behind me, and I wanted my gap forward, so I was just pointing forward. "Give me my gap to him, so I know if I'm losing, gaining, what I'm doing." Because it was just that four second, four and a half second - on the track, you can't really tell if you're gaining, and I didn't want to be stupid. I didn't want to throw the thing down in fifth, but I wanted to know if I was catching him, and then I can maybe, if I can get to him. And once I saw the gap and I could see where I was catching him, I was doing a little calculation, and I was like, "Well, if I can do this and that, I'll catch him with two to go." And I caught him with three to go. He upped the pace and rode fantastically, but we were able to sneak by and get him. So yeah, it was a great race for us, we just - that was the gesture. I was just trying to get him to give me my gap to him."

mitt

Got it. [thumbsup] Considering his troubles at the start The Ben did ride a great race. Too bad he couldn't have dispatched Rossi a little sooner. He might have caught Dovi sooner and had the wounded Pedrobot in his sights at the end!

Was it just me or did Lorenzo have a little wiggle coming out of the last turn prior to getting passed by Stoner?  I thought he might have got on it a little sooner and briefly lost it, giving Stoner a miniscule advantage as they accelerated down the straight.  Great race!!

jorge was fading, he was very sore.  guy could barely get off the bike at the end.  you don't pass george and then put 5 seconds on him unless he's got some kind of issue.  a giant highside + getting hit by the bike qualifies.  that was rough.

The kid is tough for getting right back out there after that huge highside.

You also have to give credit to Stoner. That kid is just plan fast.

Stoner is batshit fast...

no doubt about it.

Wondering how many more pages would be written in this thread if it was Sic who had made the pass in the Corkscrew... [evil]

IMO, that was a bit on the dangerous side, not because it was in a chicane but because of the unusual weighing on the front/rear of the passed bike from the quick drop that could have f'd the braking by a lesser-skilled rider.  [coffee]

Lorenzo was fading a bit, his lap times had crept from ~21.9 to ~22.0 at about the time Stoner got past Pedrosa.

Lorenzo's times continued to drift up to ~22.1's while Stoner was throwing down a string of ~21.8's.

Lorenzo got a crap drive off of the last corner, Stoner ran him down and drove around the outside of 1.  :o

Stoner cranked off another 21.8, Lorenzo collapsed with a 22.6.

I still say Jorge gets a higher degree of difficulty score for his crazy 500ccGP era high side at the Chinese MotoGP a couple of years ago! :o Sheehan saying he was 10 feet in the air at the  Laguna high side was such total bullshit! [roll] [bang] Someone pregnant dog slap that goon. Jorge got twice the air in China and it still wasn't 10 feet! But it was make the beast with two backsing huge and nasty!!! Messed up both ankles and he still raced. [thumbsup] It would have put Pedrobot in a wheel chair for life. [laugh] I'll give props to Jorge, he's tougher than he looks.

Perhaps the Laguna highside was a foot less.  :P

But that's like saying Tyson didn't punch someone quite as hard.  [laugh]

(http://motovation.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/jorge_lorenzo_highside.jpg) (http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS36AcQxqjtb5mgbLV0MKSGoApk3oDk68HdkRAv1HTJmn6z87-3)

I dunno....

If this is me...

(http://motovation.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/jorge_lorenzo_highside.jpg)

I'm calling 10 feet.

Keep in mind...

he did not 'stick' the landing. ;)

 [laugh] [laugh]

Woah.  I hadnt been paying any attention prior to the race...I watched it today at lunch time.  I had no idea Jorge had had that high-side.  His leading the majority of the race was amazing seen in that light.  Those guys are frackin' gods.

Jorge's high side pictured above was from a while back.  Still though, the off he had at Laguna this year was pretty dramatic. 

I've read two different accounts. One says he turned off his traction control, the other says the TC didn't kick in. I'm going with the 2nd. Why the hell would want to turn it off? Josh Hayes? No. He doesn't do electronic bike control packages. Jorge on a MotoGP bike? Yes. ;D Thankfully he wasn't hurt bad. [thumbsup]

Motomatters.com -- http://motomatters.com/analysis/2011/07/24/2011_laguna_seca_motogp_saturday_round_u.html (http://motomatters.com/analysis/2011/07/24/2011_laguna_seca_motogp_saturday_round_u.html)

What made Jorge Lorenzo's qualifying performance even more astonishing was the fact that the Spaniard had suffered a monster highside at the end of free practice 3 in the morning. Lorenzo had lined up to try a practice start, taking off and heading down toward turn 5. He arrived at the corner and tipped the bike in, but as he opened the throttle again, the rear came right round and tossed him high into the air.

The cause, it was later revealed, was the traction control system on Lorenzo's Yamaha YZF-M1 not kicking in, as the Spaniard had not changed down a gear before tipping it into the corner. The system is set up so that once launch control is engaged, traction control is automatically switched off, with launch control being disengaged and traction control switch on again once the rider changes down a gear. The corner where Lorenzo elected to try his practice start meant he didn't need to change down, and when he opened the throttle, the bike pitched him off.

Though it is tempting to put the crash down to the electronics, the real cause was simply rider error. Lorenzo either hadn't remembered or hadn't realized that he needed to change down a gear to reactivate the traction control. Lorenzo entered the corner expecting the electronics to be switched on, but the bike reacted completely differently to the way he expected it to. It was not so much the electronics that chucked Lorenzo off, more confounded expectations.

"launch control"  ;D

What Lorenzo's crash exemplifies is that traction control has ruined motorcycle racing.  The reason he highsided was because he grabbed a handful of throttle in a corner when pre-traction control you'd never do such a thing.  This just shows how much computers run the show and dictate the performance of the bike and not the rider.

I'm not saying the riders have no input, but they ride the bikes in a fashion that is impossible if said electronics malfuction or don't switch on.

every track school training and most of the old school riders all say it...the traction control has and always will and should be "your right hand and how much twist/input you give it"

I agree. I'm sure lots of folks will argue differently but I too think traction control (actually the entire electronics package) has buggered up racing. You should read what Josh Hayes says about it and why he doesn't run it. He seems to be doing OK without it.

Doing ok, in the little leagues.

Dont get me wrong, i'm not a big fan of electronics, and I share your view that racing would be more exciting without it, but it's advantages are undeniable, you simply cannot compete in the highest level without them.

As for the Highside, that is why I'm a Lorenzo fan. He puts everything out there and is tough as nails. Stoner and Pedrobot wouldve still been pregnant doging about the crash, Jorge shut the make the beast with two backs up, got back on the bike, got pole, and came in second. That is what a champ is made of.

Lorenzo: "Aim for the moon, if you miss, you'll land on the pavement and break a bunch of shit"

agreed: he's a twit but he's fast and tough -- that's a rare combo.  and he has had more than his fair share of upside down superman moments in the last 4 years.

arguing about TC is like arguing against any technological improvement.  as soon as someone has it and they find a few tenths because of it, everyone is going to have it.  and it's well documented that you can easily highside yourself with TC turned all the way up.  sure it helps a lot but it doesn't take the rider out of the equation.

The Euro Feed guys explained the TC perspective well I think.  It stinks up racing, but it is safer, because there are fewer "nasty" high sides overall than the pre-TC era.

Whoever would push to get it removed would be seen as not caring about rider safety.

That demo Jorge did though really shows how important it is.  He was barely getting on the gas when WOOOOP.

mitt

Ive been waiting for it, and was wondering how you were going to skew a slagging off of Stoner [laugh], well done.

http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/171570/1/early_end_to_bostrom_debut_but_faster_lap_than_elias.html (http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/171570/1/early_end_to_bostrom_debut_but_faster_lap_than_elias.html)

I saw Lorenzo's crash in person, at the fence. It was at the end of the session. He did a practice start after turn 4, then took turn 5 too hot. He may have had TC off, and the tires may have cooled down.

Me?!?!? Slag on the little princess-walking-excuse-machine? Never!

I am insulted by your accusations! ;)

I thought I heard Stoner whining about not winning by a bigger margin. [laugh] [laugh] [laugh]

Finally bothered to watch the race. Thirty-two laps, about five of them interesting. :P

[laugh]

Watching from the outside (hillside above) turn 2 - it was a great race - maybe not so much on the telly ;)

Watching Stoner run down  Pedrobot and Jorge was great - as was seeing Spies catching Dovi -

There was even promise of something developing between Nicky and Vale.........

Perspective I guess.....

I was up there too...it was pretty good from up there.

I was on Fox Hill. I'd say the race was kinda decent.

Sure, it was fun seeing the progress of Stoner and Spies...but it would have been nice to see a few lead exchanges. Stoner got past J-Lo and checked out. It was a parade for most of the race.  :'(

It was still cool being there though.  ;D

I saw it on TV. It was a great race, just different. Not much passing but plenty of hunting down while riding on the limit, heaps of tension.

It was only a matter of time before Stoner passed Lorenzo.

But Lorenzo wasn't riding 110%

What was up with Hayden after the race? He didn't look even the slightest bit happy. Not at all.

His bike must have been handling like an eel. ;D

The guy has won there twice.

Ducati can't give him a bike that will do better than 6th...

even in the great Valentino Rossi's hands...and this isn't worship...let's face it both Rossi and Nicky are still better riders than 30+ seconds off the pace.

I might be pissed too.

Well said.

I was referring more to the fact that Rossi gave him a big ol' hug as if something went down on the track between the two that we didn't see. They didn't air much of the two during the race on Moto GP.

I think that was Vale being Vale and nothing more.  Also, I don't think Nicky was upset with Vale, just himself and the overall situation.  He has said many times that Laguna is a terribly special place for him.  As DP stated, he has won there twice before and he considers it to be his home GP (even though Indy is closer to Kentucky).  I think he was just disappointed overall, and the camera just caught it at the "right" moment.

From the turn 4 grandstands I never saw anything happen between Nicky and Rossi. Nicky got closer towards the end, but never close enough to do more than maybe show him a wheel in the last lap or two. Nicky would close in on the brakes and stay close through the middle of the corner but Rossi's bike seemed to drive out of the corners a little better to me. They are both lucky Bautista crashed because he was just about to blaze right through them.

My opinion of Karel Abraham went up quite a bit. He rode hard and well and was very polite and friendly in the paddock - opposite of Pedrosa (and Stoner and Lorenzo). Friendliest guy in the paddock: Marco Simoncelli! He seemed happy to be there and always at least waved to the fans. Even riding out of pit lane he would give a wave to the fans.

J Lo seemed friendly in the pits to me. I saw him sign quite a few autographs before the Sunday morning practice...despite limping badly from his highside Saturday.

http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/racing/kenny-roberts-sr-riding-yamaha-yzr-m1/#more-23874 (http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/racing/kenny-roberts-sr-riding-yamaha-yzr-m1/#more-23874)

King Kenny had a nice viewpoint on the 800...

Shhhhhh

We are only allowed to talk about how he rapes orphans...Blind orphans.

I thought it was only blind pygmy orphan amputees?

If you dig through Soup you can find Nicky saying basically this.  Upset at the situation of finishing 30 seconds behind winner at his home track.


mitt

Read that article. The 800s seem to be suffering from increasingly poor image among just about everyone.

Can't say none of them have points, though.

Glad to hear that. We were not in that area between the garages and tent-offices all the time by any means. Quite a bit though, including late afternoon Sunday. Maybe just bad timing. Mostly I just wanted to say how fan-friendly Simoncelli was. Most of the rest weren't too far behind. It was great.

the riders have unanimously thought it was a bad idea from, oh, about day 1

Some Laguna pics from Cycle News

http://www.cyclenews.com/articles/road-racing/2011/07/27/laguna-revisited-photo-gallery/1 (http://www.cyclenews.com/articles/road-racing/2011/07/27/laguna-revisited-photo-gallery/1)

Hmmm... that's gonna leave a mark!

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/image/2011/motogp/laguna/fan2/3.htm (http://www.superbikeplanet.com/image/2011/motogp/laguna/fan2/3.htm)

Gotta hand it to J Lo...he knows how to do a proper job of crashing a GP bike!  [laugh] :o

I love the caption on this one....

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/image/2011/motogp/laguna/dmt6/h.htm (http://www.superbikeplanet.com/image/2011/motogp/laguna/dmt6/h.htm)

and this guy got spotted too!!!

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/image/2011/motogp/laguna/fan5/9d.htm (http://www.superbikeplanet.com/image/2011/motogp/laguna/fan5/9d.htm)

Nice :)

People were all over the tiger bike....posing with it more than they did any other display bike.

Ah yes, more whining about supposed whining...  ;)

Damn, that thing is still alive?

Don't you know cats have 9 lives?

(http://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae71/datdudeHX/PhotoJul2275335PM.jpg)

(http://www.superbikeplanet.com/image/2011/motogp/laguna/fan5/9d.jpg)

It's tough being The Doctor! Nice technique.  [laugh]

(http://www.superbikeplanet.com/image/2011/motogp/laguna/5/8.jpg)

 [clap], Vale.   [bow_down]

That said, this thumb is too pokey.  He needs more of a "cupping" action.  Besides, he shoulda just signed it in saliva.  Now that's a time-tested technique.

She'll never wash that boob! [laugh] Either that or you'll see it on ebay. ;D [clap]

Vale is a lefty?

That's what he told her.

Spotted?  More like striped.   8)

groan...

Groan?  More like grrrrroan!   8)

 :P

 [laugh]

So bad it's funny.